Topic: The end of times

[Snail]

And this isn’t in anyway new for humans….

Okay mate you’re right, everything is fine.

[has gone odd]

The meek will inherit the earth

[Nobby Reserve]

The earth won't just turn into Mars within a couple of years.

Mars is a cold, barren, inhospitable place lacking an atmosphere.

Like Old Trafford.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Andy, maybe you've already come across Isaac Arthur, but if not, I can highly recommend his channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZFipeZtQM5CKUjx6grh54g/videos

Wikipedia:

Nice one will have a look cheers

[TepidT2O]

Okay mate you’re right, everything is fine.

That’s a totally different point.

Everything isn’t fine, but this doesn’t denote the end of days..

Humans have seen off a mighty ice age, been down to a few thousand people.  And humans have come through it.

So, climate crisis? Absolutely.  End of days?  Most likely not at all.  Predicting  the end of days is as old as written humanity.  It’s interesting to see it here again.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

  Predicting  the end of days is as old as written humanity.  It’s interesting to see it here again.

One day we'll be right

[Elmo!]

That’s a totally different point.

Everything isn’t fine, but this doesn’t denote the end of days..

Humans have seen off a mighty ice age, been down to a few thousand people.  And humans have come through it.

So, climate crisis? Absolutely.  End of days?  Most likely not at all.  Predicting  the end of days is as old as written humanity.  It’s interesting to see it here again.

This does read a bit like "as long as the human race doesn't die out completely then it's not that bad really and I'm not sure why people are making a fuss" though.

I think we should aim a bit higher than that. 

[TepidT2O]

This does read a bit like "as long as the human race doesn't die out completely then it's not that bad really and I'm not sure why people are making a fuss" though.

I think we should aim a bit higher than that. 

After the last 18 months I get excited going to the local petrol station

[Dr. Beaker]

The fear of consequences prevents us from doing something. Atleast this fear could be used to instigate people to think about insects survival

Amen brother. As long as we are leaving spiders out of it.

[Studgotelli]

Agree with some of the article but on climate change I think it’s underestimating the advances being made with renewable energy sources (electricity, geothermal, wind, hydropower etc). Of course we are currently on a worrying trajectory but the next few decades I believe will see very fast and permanent advances and we will have very limited reliance on current sources such as fossil fuels. The rich will probably be the biggest net contributors but it certainly won’t be the general population. I also feel what we will see is depopulation over time which will protect some of the natural land. The younger demos are having less children than previously, places like China have their caps on pro-creation. The digitisation of the world/advancement in AI post COVID will also have a lasting effect on consumption.

We may have veered too far to get things back to a decent equilibrium in our lifetimes but I wouldn’t write off things just yet. It will be a bumpy road however and i will say I think the next decade is gonna be pretty ugly for a lot of people if they aren’t prepared for what’s coming with the damage from COVID economically

[Andy @ Allerton!]

This does read a bit like "as long as the human race doesn't die out completely then it's not that bad really and I'm not sure why people are making a fuss" though.

I think we should aim a bit higher than that. 

Easy to say that from a country/community where you can drink fresh water, eat actual food and not try and die every single minute of every single day.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Amen brother. As long as we are leaving spiders out of it.

Just the ones that are venomous? Or the ones that crawl into the ears and lays their larvae that grow and eat part of the ear lobes?

Which ones mate?

[Dr. Beaker]

Just the ones that are venomous? Or the ones that crawl into the ears and lays their larvae that grow and eat part of the ear lobes?

Which ones mate?

Anything big enough for eyeball contact.

[Nobby Reserve]

Agree with some of the article but on climate change I think it’s underestimating the advances being made with renewable energy sources (electricity, geothermal, wind, hydropower etc). Of course we are currently on a worrying trajectory but the next few decades I believe will see very fast and permanent advances and we will have very limited reliance on current sources such as fossil fuels. The rich will probably be the biggest net contributors but it certainly won’t be the general population. I also feel what we will see is depopulation over time which will protect some of the natural land. The younger demos are having less children than previously, places like China have their caps on pro-creation. The digitisation of the world/advancement in AI post COVID will also have a lasting effect on consumption.

We may have veered too far to get things back to a decent equilibrium in our lifetimes but I wouldn’t write off things just yet. It will be a bumpy road however and i will say I think the next decade is gonna be pretty ugly for a lot of people if they aren’t prepared for what’s coming with the damage from COVID economically

One of the biggest issues is going to be forced population migration caused by climate change.

As climate change causes changes to established weather patterns, we will see new/more areas become susceptible to prolonged drought and others to flooding. If those areas - drought especially - coincide with major population centres, or a so great in area that they impact whole countries/regions, then there is going to be mass-migration.

Remember, large-scale urbanisation in the western world is only a couple hundred years old; in other parts of the world it's generally been within the last century. Those population centres have largely been created in areas with optimal conditions (there are some exceptions, obviously - int that right, Las Vegas?) at that time. Yet weather pattern shifts can place them into areas that are at high risk of drought or flood.

Mass migrations inevitably lead to conflict. This has been true throughout history - and back a thousand, two thousand years ago, population density across the world was massively lower. There was often a lot of space to accommodate influxes of people - yet there was still conflict. Nowadays, with population density being as high as it is, the ingredients for displacement and conflict would be hugely increased (both within countries and across borders)

Being an island in a [currently at least...] temperate zone places the UK in a hugely fortunate position.

[Red Beret]

Was just watching Kyle Hill and he was describing the moon's 19 year orbital cycle. Apparently in the 2030s it will enter a new cycle that will cause higher coastal tides in the US and lead to flooding. That will be on top of any extreme weather, rainfall, storms etc they will be experiencing.

I suppose the flooding might put the forest fires out though.

[scatman]

Your blase attitude is in stark contrast to the Covid thread.

You do know why zoonotic diseases are increasing?

he actually means humans have lived through huge climate change events. Lake Toba, Tambora, Lake Taupo, 535 all lead to big changes in climate. Lake Toba is assumed to have bottlenecked the DNA of most species on earth. But we number so many now and our impact is so huge, it's deadly.

The Earth and life on Earth will survive, we also wouldn't be the first lifeform to wipe out all other lifeforms. the first lifeform to use photosynthesis killed all other lifeforms as oxygen was toxic to them.

[lobsterboy]

Species will exist many years after we go extinct.

The Earth is approx 4.5 billion years old, and it's estimated that it's got another 4.5 billion years left.

Sorry mate but everyone knows Jeebus created it 10,000 years ago #truthseeker

[lobsterboy]

Was just watching Kyle Hill and he was describing the moon's 19 year orbital cycle. Apparently in the 2030s it will enter a new cycle that will cause higher coastal tides in the US and lead to flooding. That will be on top of any extreme weather, rainfall, storms etc they will be experiencing.

I suppose the flooding might put the forest fires out though.

Its ok. Republicans have asked to The National Forest Service to move the moons orbit.

[Red-Soldier]

Sorry mate but everyone knows Jeebus created it 10,000 years ago #truthseeker

Most Americans agree with you 

[Dr. Beaker]

And the DUP.

[Studgotelli]

Its ok. Republicans have asked to The National Forest Service to move the moons orbit.

There’s a train of thought in a book I read about the consolidation of America & not China as the global superpower post COVID breaking down the reason why so much is being invested into space travel. There’s a belief amongst high ranking government authorities that China & Russia have the potential to weaponise the moon (I shit you not)  if they don’t get ahead so it’s going to be a race between America and China to the sum of trillions to understand as much as possible about space. Hence why the billionaires Musk, Branson and Bezos are receiving govt subsidies for their ventures.

I don’t know how steps would be taken to use the moon but it’s an interesting theory.

[Studgotelli]

One of the biggest issues is going to be forced population migration caused by climate change.

As climate change causes changes to established weather patterns, we will see new/more areas become susceptible to prolonged drought and others to flooding. If those areas - drought especially - coincide with major population centres, or a so great in area that they impact whole countries/regions, then there is going to be mass-migration.

Remember, large-scale urbanisation in the western world is only a couple hundred years old; in other parts of the world it's generally been within the last century. Those population centres have largely been created in areas with optimal conditions (there are some exceptions, obviously - int that right, Las Vegas?) at that time. Yet weather pattern shifts can place them into areas that are at high risk of drought or flood.

Mass migrations inevitably lead to conflict. This has been true throughout history - and back a thousand, two thousand years ago, population density across the world was massively lower. There was often a lot of space to accommodate influxes of people - yet there was still conflict. Nowadays, with population density being as high as it is, the ingredients for displacement and conflict would be hugely increased (both within countries and across borders)

Being an island in a [currently at least...] temperate zone places the UK in a hugely fortunate position.

Fair point it will be interesting yet scary to see where things go in the next few decades. I hope I will be rich enough to be far away from all the madness!

[24/7]

Fair point it will be interesting yet scary to see where things go in the next few decades. I hope I will be rich enough to be far away from all the madness!

Therein lieth one of the problems though - you can't eat, drink or breathe money.

[Jshooters]

Therein lieth one of the problems though - you can't eat, drink or breathe money.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Therein lieth one of the problems though - you can't eat, drink or breathe money.

[Nobby Reserve]

I don’t know how steps would be taken to use the moon but it’s an interesting theory.

[24/7]

22 years too late for that, laaaaaa

[Dr. Beaker]

Striker!

[Andy @ Allerton!]

[Shankly998]

Going back to the original article I reject his original premise

The G7 needed to invest about $17 billion to vaccinate the world. $17 billion It’s less than the tenth of the cost of a new stealth fighter. We could have a Covid-free planet for less than the cost of a death machine. But we have the death machines, not the better world. $17 billion is chump change for the richest countries in the world, put together.  So what about the rest of the problems we face as a world?

The problem is far more complex than just the rich west being unwilling to write a cheque otherwise first world countries would not be dealing with supply problems of vaccines themselves.... the issue is fundamentally scaling up production of novel ways of manufacturing vaccines rather than the west being short sighted enough to not bother vaccinating the world (as stupid as our leaders are they do see at least see the benefit of vaccinating the world). Also is it even possible to have a Covid free planet as the author suggests I doubt it myself.

The world may (and probably will) fail to deal with climate change effectively but it is a poor comparative that the author has used.

[Red-Soldier]

Going back to the original article I reject his original premise

The problem is far more complex than just the rich west being unwilling to write a cheque otherwise first world countries would not be dealing with supply problems of vaccines themselves.... the issue is fundamentally scaling up production of novel ways of manufacturing vaccines rather than the west being short sighted enough to not bother vaccinating the world (as stupid as our leaders are they do see at least see the benefit of vaccinating the world). Also is it even possible to have a Covid free planet as the author suggests I doubt it myself.

The world may (and probably will) fail to deal with climate change effectively but it is a poor comparative that the author has used.

I disagree with you and think it's a good comparison.  They are both steeped in inequality.  The developed countries have been hoarding Covid vaccines, and they are also responsible for most greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions.

But as rich nations face accusations of stockpiling vaccines, Paul Polman, the former chief executive of Unilever and chair of the International Chamber of Commerce, said the two biggest global challenges were becoming increasingly, and dangerously, linked.

“We can’t have global solidarity and trust around tackling climate change if we do not show solidarity around vaccines,” Polman said. “Developing countries will not come with more ambitious targets [on emissions] if they do not see developed countries showing some solidarity on vaccines, and climate funding.”

The chances of success at Cop26, Polman said, “will be significantly higher if we address this vaccine issue.”

The secretary general of the Commonwealth, Patricia Scotland, agreed that vaccines were closely linked to climate action.

“There is an obvious link between equitable access to vaccines and action on climate change,” she said. “Only if we invest in equitable vaccine access and stand against vaccine nationalism will we beat Covid-19. Only if we ensure every country is able to afford to deal with its climate challenges will we be able to reach a meaningful agreement on a way forward.”

Greta Thunberg, the climate campaigner, has said she will boycott Cop26 unless developing countries get a fair share of vaccines, and some NGOs have called on developing countries in the talks to do the same.

Joss Garman, the UK director of the European Climate Foundation and a former adviser to the Labour party on the environment, said there was a risk that the Cop26 talks could suffer the same fate as the collapsed Copenhagen summit in 2009 unless a deal was done on vaccines.

“The savage impact of Covid is costing developing countries around $1 trillion every year,” said Garman. “Overwhelmed by this immediate and ongoing health and financial crisis, almost 100 countries have yet to put forward their climate plan for Cop26.

“Others have explicitly made their efforts on carbon contingent on more assistance from rich countries. Unless the G7 puts together a package on vaccines and debt relief, success at Cop26 could be in real jeopardy. ”

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/05/share-vaccines-or-climate-deal-will-fail-rich-countries-are-told

[jambutty]

Evolve or die.

It's Nature's Way.

[RainbowFlick]

Going back to the original article I reject his original premise

The problem is far more complex than just the rich west being unwilling to write a cheque otherwise first world countries would not be dealing with supply problems of vaccines themselves.... the issue is fundamentally scaling up production of novel ways of manufacturing vaccines rather than the west being short sighted enough to not bother vaccinating the world (as stupid as our leaders are they do see at least see the benefit of vaccinating the world). Also is it even possible to have a Covid free planet as the author suggests I doubt it myself.

The world may (and probably will) fail to deal with climate change effectively but it is a poor comparative that the author has used.

I would argue they (the rich west) could've scaled up production significantly more than they have and collaboration on this should've been better (the Covax(?) scheme seems to have a few holes). I'm not so clear how 'easy' it would've been to scale up the sourcing of chemicals/materials but pretty much anything is possible if you throw enough money at it. Zero Covid is now unfortunately a fantasy, but it's likely this pandemic won't become endemic for a few more years, you'd assume.

We'll probably all be offered boosters before some people are even considered for a vaccine in certain countries which feels incredibly shite.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Evolve or die.

It's Nature's Way.

Sadly yes. We are evolving. We are evolving backwards.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Evolve or die.

It's Nature's Way.

It is interesting the number of people that seem to believe that Nature is a benign, loving, caring, fair thing.

It's an absolute twat and  over billions of years if a species cannot cope with an environment then it dies out or it adapts.

There is no other way. Whatever the conditions the planet ends up with, life will find a way. The fact that the Earth is teeming with biodiversity is literal living proof of this.

The only thing that could affect this is a venus-like atmosphere (possible, but will be temporary due to our distance from the sun) or the evaporation of all water (possible, but will be temporary due to our distance from the sun)

(Temporary means millions/tens of millions of years)



So the only real two ways the Earth is stuffed is if it either moves out of the Goldilocks zone or something changes in the sun itself so it expands or contracts significantly

[Robinred]

It is interesting the number of people that seem to believe that Nature is a benign, loving, caring, fair thing.

It's an absolute twat and  over billions of years if a species cannot cope with an environment then it dies out or it adapts.

There is no other way. Whatever the conditions the planet ends up with, life will find a way. The fact that the Earth is teeming with biodiversity is literal living proof of this.

The only thing that could affect this is a venus-like atmosphere (possible, but will be temporary due to our distance from the sun) or the evaporation of all water (possible, but will be temporary due to our distance from the sun)

(Temporary means millions/tens of millions of years)



So the only real two ways the Earth is stuffed is if it either moves out of the Goldilocks zone or something changes in the sun itself so it expands or contracts significantly

Here’s an interesting quote that I remember almost verbatim, but for the life of me cannot remember the source:

“People say that nature is red in tooth and claw. They’re wrong, nature is supremely indifferent”.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Here’s an interesting quote that I remember almost verbatim, but for the life of me cannot remember the source:

“People say that nature is red in tooth and claw. They’re wrong, nature is supremely indifferent”.

Yep agree with that.

It's only our sense of 'fairness' and 'morality' 'what's right' and 'how it should be' that makes it look like a git.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse?fbclid=IwAR2Di1RZQKtuXcty4WBxoQY0Dfk769bMVwMNt0GFop6tz9r-pTSeoQRicMU

[Dr. Beaker]

Sadly yes. We are evolving. We are evolving backwards.

We are Devo.

[wampa1]

We're legit fucked and it's going to happen within our lifetimes.