Topic: The end of times

[RainbowFlick]

A pretty grim read, possibly on the 'doomer' side of things, but worth a look.

https://eand.co/this-is-the-dawn-of-a-new-dark-age-548f14de3c

He suggests a few 'mega failures' that may be causes of an existential crisis for humankind in the pretty near future. That includes Covid continuing to haunt us as the Rich West has essentially hoarded vaccines allowing for mutations, the acceleration of climate change, eventual extinction of fish, etc and then the drying up of rivers and more.

It's scary as it doesn't seem that far-fetched at this point. We've seen the real impacts of climate change recently amongst a virus that has essentially shutdown the world.

[Red-Soldier]

A pretty grim read, possibly on the 'doomer' side of things, but worth a look.

https://eand.co/this-is-the-dawn-of-a-new-dark-age-548f14de3c

He suggests a few 'mega failures' that may be causes of an existential crisis for humankind in the pretty near future. That includes Covid continuing to haunt us as the Rich West has essentially

These are called the climate and biodiversity crises.  They have existed for many years and are getting progressively worse.

I could describe tipping points and ecosystem collapse, but he's a website instead:

What is at stake?

Ecosystems are the foundation for human life. They perform a range of functions, generally referred to as environmental services, without which human societies and economies could not operate at their current level. We depend on the services they provide for air, water, food, shelter and energy. Ecosystems can tolerate a measure of impact from human use and recover relatively quickly with minimal negative effects – an attribute generally known as resilience – but beyond a certain threshold, or "tipping point", sudden and radical disruption occurs. Under such conditions, soil quality, freshwater supplies and biodiversity diminish drastically, while agricultural capacity plummets and daily human living conditions deteriorate significantly.

Local ecological collapse may have caused the end of a civilization on Easter Island. More recently, ecological collapse in and around the Aral Sea has had dramatic social and economic consequences for the region, although timely intervention has led to some marked recovery. In today’s highly connected world, local disruptions may sometimes also lead to unintended ecological effects on other far flung areas. This might escalate into the rapid collapse of most ecosystems across the Earth, with no time for effective recovery, drastically compromising the planet’s capacity to support a large and growing human population sustainably.



What are key factors affecting risk levels?

    The development and adoption of new technologies or production models that are less resource-intensive and/or less polluting could reduce the risk of ecological collapse, as would a shift towards more sustainable lifestyles, more specifically changing consumption patterns, possibly accompanied by behaviour change.
    It is estimated that environmental services, should their contribution to human well-being be calculated, would be worth more than twice as much as the entire global GDP. Integrating the valuation of ecosystems into economic decision making and employing robust environmental accounting systems across businesses and national economies would contribute to reducing the risk.
    Global governance mechanisms to preserve ecosystems and reduce pollution, in particular more integrated approaches between the governance of ecosystems and trade, are of particular importance, as many ecosystems do not overlap with national boundaries, and trade is an important driver of ecosystem collapse.


Lake Chad – an example of ecological collapse

The changes in Lake Chad have been called an ecological disaster that have not only destroyed livelihoods but also led to the loss of invaluable biodiversity. Lake Chad traverses Chad, Nigeria, Niger and Cameroon. The lake was considered as the sixth largest lake in the world in 1960s but over the last 60 years, the lake’s size has decreased by 90 per cent as a result of over use of the water, extended drought and the impacts of climate change. The surface area of the lake has plummeted from 26,000 square kilometers in 1963 to less than 1,500 square kilometers today, affecting the livelihoods of over 40 million people that depend on it. The fluctuation of the lake is attributed to the complex interaction of several factors, including the shallowness of the lake, changing human uses of the lake water such as increased water use for irrigation and the effects of climate change. A scientific assessment on the situation of the lake ranked freshwater shortage as severe and as a primary concern affecting other changes, including habitat modification and declining fish production. The diminishing water resources and the decline in the lake’s ecosystem leads to severe health and economic impacts for the populations around Lake Chad, and has affected fishing communities and pastoralists, and also generated resource-based conflicts.

https://globalchallenges.org/global-risks/ecological-collapse/

[RainbowFlick]

These are called the climate and biodiversity crises.  They have existed for many years and are getting progressively worse.

I could describe tipping points and ecosystem collapse, but he's a website instead:


https://globalchallenges.org/global-risks/ecological-collapse/

Yes I'm aware they're not a new thing - it's just an interesting article and it feels we're accelerating towards those points.

[bradders1011]

This made me quite melancholy...

https://unherd.com/2021/07/how-the-sun-could-wipe-us-out/

[scatman]

in contrast to that Bradders - https://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/stories/grid-at-work/skys-cobra-series-solar-storm-teacup-or-genuine-possibility

its probably a bigger problem in the USA with multiple grid providers.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Thats depressing. Makes me wonder if we would survive another 200 years.

This only confirms the notion that in a war with nature, nature will always prevail.

[Snail]

Thats depressing. Makes me wonder if we would survive another 200 years.

This only confirms the notion that in a war with nature, nature will always prevail.

I don’t wish to alarm you but we will be extremely fortunate to see out this century. The next couple of decades are going to be very scary.

[Alan_X]

A pretty grim read, possibly on the 'doomer' side of things, but worth a look.

https://eand.co/this-is-the-dawn-of-a-new-dark-age-548f14de3c

He suggests a few 'mega failures' that may be causes of an existential crisis for humankind in the pretty near future. That includes Covid continuing to haunt us as the Rich West has essentially hoarded vaccines allowing for mutations, the acceleration of climate change, eventual extinction of fish, etc and then the drying up of rivers and more.

It's scary as it doesn't seem that far-fetched at this point. We've seen the real impacts of climate change recently amongst a virus that has essentially shutdown the world.

One of the first points to make is that the 'Dark Ages' were not a period of people descending into filth and lack of education.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

I don’t wish to alarm you but we will be extremely fortunate to see out this century. The next couple of decades are going to be very scary.

That doesnt do anything to me. Honestly. I have become so much indifferent to all the disasters thats happening around us. Its like I dont even care. I dont know why. So much knowledge and creativity and resources at our disposal and yet here we are. Part of me wishes for an asteroid. 10 minutes of wait, 1 second of pain. Part of me wants to do all I can but it immediately transcends into helplessness and melancholy. People in positions of power are doing nothing and they dont realise that in the grand scheme of things, humans are insignificant. Earth was probably more beautiful without humans.

[TepidT2O]

People have been foreseeing the end of times since civilisation began…

Good to see nothing changes

[scatman]

People have been foreseeing the end of times since civilisation began…

Good to see nothing changes

Isn't there even an entire book dedicated to it in one of the most holiest of books written around 2000 years ago?

[Snail]

People have been foreseeing the end of times since civilisation began…

Good to see nothing changes

Except people are now literally dying because of climate change in front of our eyes.

[Nobby Reserve]

That doesnt do anything to me. Honestly. I have become so much indifferent to all the disasters thats happening around us. Its like I dont even care. I dont know why. So much knowledge and creativity and resources at our disposal and yet here we are. Part of me wishes for an asteroid. 10 minutes of wait, 1 second of pain. Part of me wants to do all I can but it immediately transcends into helplessness and melancholy. People in positions of power are doing nothing and they dont realise that in the grand scheme of things, humans are insignificant. Earth was probably more beautiful without humans.

The inherent greed and competitive instinct of humans is both a blessing (that leads to innovation and technological advancement) and a curse (that brings short-termism and rank inequality)

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Except people are now literally dying because of climate change in front of our eyes.

Exactly.

Yet very few seem to believe it's happening.

It's almost impossible to even mention it, never mind have a conversation.

[Snail]

Exactly.

Yet very few seem to believe it's happening.

It's almost impossible to even mention it, never mind have a conversation.

I get it to an extent, it’s human nature to want to bury your head in the sand and ignore bad (bad, very bad) stuff. I wish I could go back to a time when I hadn’t been reading into the situation we’re in and the horror that the not-so-distant future holds, but I can’t undo that. I’m of the belief that things are many times worse than those in power are willing to let on, and that they’re not telling the truth so they can avoid panic and keep the gravy train rolling just that little bit longer. There’s a very real chance we’ll see our first blue ocean event by 2025, and then there really is no going back (I think that’s already the case anyway).

I really must stress to people that it’s important to enjoy the next few years of your lives as much as you can. For those of you who will die before worst of it hits, I envy you. For those of us young enough to truly suffer, enjoy the freedom of not having to worry so much about retiring or owning our own home - we’ll be dead or dying before we get much beyond middle-age.

That’s my cheerful take on it all anyway

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

I really must stress to people that it’s important to enjoy the next few years of your lives as much as you can. For those of you who will die before worst of it hits, I envy you. For those of us young enough to truly suffer, enjoy the freedom of not having to worry so much about retiring or owning our own home - we’ll be dead or dying before we get much beyond middle-age.

In a way it's good to know that at least one person out there has recognised the true scale of the situation and has accepted it.

[Snail]

In a way it's good to know that at least one person out there has recognised the true scale of the situation and has accepted it.

It’s been freeing in a way, but then I’ve always suffered with depression and anxiety - I guess the realisation that nothing I do matters anyway has taken some pressure off that messed up brain of mine, in a way. But still, I’m having a lot of sleepless nights over it, and a lot of people my age are the same.

There’s a quiet acceptance that it’s over for those of us who are willing to face it; for the rest, there’s a determined effort to ignore the elephant in the room which is now so big it’s almost taking up the entire room. Their delusions won’t hold up for much longer.

[Dr. Beaker]

I went through all this angst about forty years ago. You can get some relief from the knowledge that planet Earth will bounce back and survive once the human virus has choked on its own shite.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The good news is that life formed from rocky debris encircling a cloud of dust that eventually formed our sun and rocky objects smashed togetheer endlessly until the planets were formed - then one the size of mars smashed  through the Earth and formed the moon.

More millions of years passed and from a volcanic hell of fire, gases, molten lava and nothing, life popped up and millions of years later we had a ton of stuff.

Then it got mostly wiped out and then came back then wiped, then back, then wiped, then back.


Not so much good news for the human species, but good for the Earth. In 500,000,000 years you'd never have known we were here

[killer-heels]

The good news is that life formed from rocky debris encircling a cloud of dust that eventually formed our sun and rocky objects smashed togetheer endlessly until the planets were formed - then one the size of mars smashed  through the Earth and formed the moon.

More millions of years passed and from a volcanic hell of fire, gases, molten lava and nothing, life popped up and millions of years later we had a ton of stuff.

Then it got mostly wiped out and then came back then wiped, then back, then wiped, then back.


Not so much good news for the human species, but good for the Earth. In 500,000,000 years you'd never have known we were here

Yep, we are definitely a stain on this earth that needs and will soon be eradicated.

[Hij]

Wouldn't want to read this thread hungover

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Wouldn't want to read this thread hungover

To be fair life popping up then dying then being replaced is a process that started when the Earth was formed and life appeared.

This process will continue and repeat until the Sun expands across the orbit of the Earth, leaving it a smoking molten shell where no life is possible.

Life is chaos and action. Enjoy it while it lasts

Mankind gets a bad rap, but cosmic events and extinctions are just as much of the process. I have no doubts that a few hundred million years after we've been gone, then any new intelligent race would likely take the then resources of the planet when they too have the chance.


I've said for years now that the only hope mankind has of surviving is to move to more than one external site - wether that's at lagrange points on tamed asteroids, in craters on the moon, in the asteroid belt or on ther planets or in solar orbiting stations - until we do that we've had our chips.

The biggest advantage is that you can start moving heaving industry, power generation and pollution off world.

Can we do it before we're stuffed?


I'm an optomist, so I think we can. Humanity isn't all bad and in many scenarios, we can tut and frown now, but putting yourself in their ideas and situation years ago, many of the realisations that seem obvious today weren't even considered then. We're basically big fat intelligent fish living in a cloudy fishtank that we can't clean and the filter is fucked. An enclosed biosphere means that there is nowhere for the shit to go and when some of that shits effects last millions of years then you have an issues - especially if you keep creating said shit..

[Musketeer Gripweed]

Is all this why we are holding off on handing out new contracts?

[Dr. Beaker]

To be fair life popping up then dying then being replaced is a process that started when the Earth was formed and life appeared.

This process will continue and repeat until the Sun expands across the orbit of the Earth, leaving it a smoking molten shell where no life is possible.

Life is chaos and action. Enjoy it while it lasts

Mankind gets a bad rap, but cosmic events and extinctions are just as much of the process. I have no doubts that a few hundred million years after we've been gone, then any new intelligent race would likely take the then resources of the planet when they too have the chance.


I've said for years now that the only hope mankind has of surviving is to move to more than one external site - wether that's at lagrange points on tamed asteroids, in craters on the moon, in the asteroid belt or on ther planets or in solar orbiting stations - until we do that we've had our chips.

The biggest advantage is that you can start moving heaving industry, power generation and pollution off world.

Can we do it before we're stuffed?


I'm an optomist, so I think we can. Humanity isn't all bad and in many scenarios, we can tut and frown now, but putting yourself in their ideas and situation years ago, many of the realisations that seem obvious today weren't even considered then. We're basically big fat intelligent fish living in a cloudy fishtank that we can't clean and the filter is fucked. An enclosed biosphere means that there is nowhere for the shit to go and when some of that shits effects last millions of years then you have an issues - especially if you keep creating said shit..

The rest of the universe needs to go into lockdown immediately.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

, many of the realisations that seem obvious today weren't even considered then.

We've known about man made climate change for decades, but big business decided (in their own interests) to downplay/discredit the science

[RainbowFlick]

People have been foreseeing the end of times since civilisation began…

Good to see nothing changes

Of course, but with advancements in science I think we probably feel a bit more 'closer' to a real answer, I guess.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

We've known about man made climate change for decades, but big business decided (in their own interests) to downplay/discredit the science

Indeed, but mankind has been inventing and improving technology - some of it far-ranging and damaging to the environment for thousands of years.

Consider redirecting rivers, dams, deforestation and the like.


This is the interesting thing I find about discussing life. We live in a tiny microcosm of time. To the human race, it seems like an awful long time and with our learning and categorising and the rest, we see 'now' as 'normal' and 'right' and 'as it should be' - but 'now' isn't anything like.

How many life forms have lived and died or mutated or evolved before mankind turned up? Once mankind is dead and gone - how many life forms will continue to live or die or mutate?

There are areas now where we think it's 'normal' and 'right' to see coral reefs or forests or glaciers or plains or fields or lakes. But millenia ago, these things might have been molten, they might have been under the sea, they might have been thousands of feet in the air.

The Earth is geological and it changes all the time. It's never still. I'd imagine that a lot of the crap that mankind has produced, in a few million years will be destined to be sucked through the rock or covered in sea and eventually worn down.

If life suffers a drawback and a gap for life to evolve appears then life evolves. Species that don't surive events get replaced. That's happened forever.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The rest of the universe needs to go into lockdown immediately.

Agreed


Thought those grey buggers at Reticulan IV are singing 'Bring it on Hoomans'

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

Wouldn't want to read this thread hungover

Hey look, a giant dildo just flew into space.

[lobsterboy]

People have been foreseeing the end of times since civilisation began…

Good to see nothing changes

Except it isn't prophets, psychics and "wizards" foreseeing it this time.
Think the evidence is definitely mounting that humans are rapidly destroying the environment through fossil fuel, over population and pure greed.
We seem to consider the planet "ours" and are happy to send all the other sentient beings to their destruction along with us so we can have the latest iphone or trainers every six months or other such crap.
People care more about chlamydia island than about the planet they live on. Sad times.

[lobsterboy]

Hey look, a giant dildo just flew into space.

His company now has an app that sacks its drivers for him. Sacked by AI.
SKYNET won't come from the military, it will be Alexa.

[AndyMuller]

Really good and interesting article and thread.

We are fucked.

[24/7]

This made me quite melancholy...

https://unherd.com/2021/07/how-the-sun-could-wipe-us-out/

Ouch. Very ouch. And very, very plausible - in fact, it probably downplays the animalistic side of 'humanity' somewhat

[redbyrdz]

I don’t wish to alarm you but we will be extremely fortunate to see out this century. The next couple of decades are going to be very scary.

Nah, life will prevail. Maybe until the sun dies in another few billion years. Life will adapt. That very very likely also includes human life, we're the most adaptable species on the planet, we can manipulate our environment and survive on every corner of the earth and even in space.

The perspective here is that life always changes, it might not be like the way it was. It also doesn't mean there won't be disaster and death, possible of millions. All of this has happened before.

The thing to keep in mind is that our lives are only short, and they will end in one way or another anyway. The rest of the planet will go on.


(I don't mean with that we can just go on destroying the planet. I very much want us to stop, and I'm trying my bit as best as I can. But this doom mongering is just wrong to me. The earth won't just turn into Mars within a couple of years.)

[Red-Soldier]

Species will exist many years after we go extinct.

The Earth is approx 4.5 billion years old, and it's estimated that it's got another 4.5 billion years left.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

In the end, all you can do is do all you can for the next generation, and be good to each other. We’ve enjoyed probably the most peaceful times in human history, I will always be grateful for that.

[TepidT2O]

Except people are now literally dying because of climate change in front of our eyes.

And this isn’t in anyway new for humans….

[ChaChaMooMoo]

I don't mean with that we can just go on destroying the planet. I very much want us to stop, and I'm trying my bit as best as I can. But this doom mongering is just wrong to me. The earth won't just turn into Mars within a couple of years.

I dont think its fear mongering as much as it is supposed to get all of us thinking about them.

Insects endangered, marine life on brink, climate changes etc. We have been talking about them for too long. What has been done?!?

The fear of consequences prevents us from doing something. Atleast this fear could be used to instigate people to think about insects survival, marine life and climate change and prolong our inevitable collapse and extinction.

[Red-Soldier]

And this isn’t in anyway new for humans….

Your blase attitude is in stark contrast to the Covid thread.

You do know why zoonotic diseases are increasing?

[Jiminy Cricket]

To be fair life popping up then dying then being replaced is a process that started when the Earth was formed and life appeared.

This process will continue and repeat until the Sun expands across the orbit of the Earth, leaving it a smoking molten shell where no life is possible.

Life is chaos and action. Enjoy it while it lasts

Mankind gets a bad rap, but cosmic events and extinctions are just as much of the process. I have no doubts that a few hundred million years after we've been gone, then any new intelligent race would likely take the then resources of the planet when they too have the chance.


I've said for years now that the only hope mankind has of surviving is to move to more than one external site - wether that's at lagrange points on tamed asteroids, in craters on the moon, in the asteroid belt or on ther planets or in solar orbiting stations - until we do that we've had our chips.

The biggest advantage is that you can start moving heaving industry, power generation and pollution off world.

Can we do it before we're stuffed?


I'm an optomist, so I think we can. Humanity isn't all bad and in many scenarios, we can tut and frown now, but putting yourself in their ideas and situation years ago, many of the realisations that seem obvious today weren't even considered then. We're basically big fat intelligent fish living in a cloudy fishtank that we can't clean and the filter is fucked. An enclosed biosphere means that there is nowhere for the shit to go and when some of that shits effects last millions of years then you have an issues - especially if you keep creating said shit..

Andy, maybe you've already come across Isaac Arthur, but if not, I can highly recommend his channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZFipeZtQM5CKUjx6grh54g/videos

Wikipedia:

Isaac Albert Arthur (born c. 1980[3]) is a science communication YouTuber and futurist.[4] He is best known as producer of his YouTube channel, Science & Futurism With Isaac Arthur (SFIA), where he discusses a broad variety of topics on futurism and space colonization.[5]

[...]

Arthur began an educational YouTube channel, Science & Futurism with Isaac Arthur, in 2012. In September 2014, Arthur released the first video on the channel on the topic of megastructures.[13] The channel is now host to over 644,000 subscribers and 348 videos. as of July 15th 2021 [14] Arthur continues to serve as a board member of his hometown's Board of Elections by day, spending the majority of his personal time working on the production of his videos.[6] Following the success of his channel, Arthur collaborates with other science communicators, including Paul Sutter[15] and Fraser Cain,[16][17] and acts as an analyst and consultant for science fiction novels and games, such as HADES 9.[18] His channel is dedicated to topics including space colonization in the near and far future, futurism, artificial intelligence, and transhumanism, among others, especially in the context of thermodynamics, economics, science fiction, the Fermi paradox, and the Dyson dilemma. The channel's main focus is to speculate on how humanity or other hypothetical advanced civilizations may behave logistically, technologically, and socially, in the near and distant future under the laws of known science.[14]

[...]