Topic: Are the Tories actually evil?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Vote now.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Can't see any other reason for their behaviour

[Titi Camara]

I think that haircut May's got is simply there to hide a set of horns. There's no other rational explanation for having such an atrocity on your head!

[So… Howard Philips]

I don't think you can tar them all with the same brush.

I can remember in the early 1990s when Tories like Heseltine were the effective opposition as the Labour party were going through one of their spells of doctrinal infighting.

Some are a lot more evil than most. I give you Norman Tebbit.

[viteslesrouges]

"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin."
Aneurin Bevan

[Redman0151]

Evil or morons generally

[fudge]

The minority of manipulators at the top are

The rest are a bit selfish and misguided

[sms1986]

Some certainly are, but not all Tories are evil.

[Kashinoda]

Cameron was actually.... fine? Like he was a bit of a tit and fundamentally a Tory but he held liberal views and was much closer to the center.

But then he does the whole referendum thing so can rot in hell for all eternity.

[oldfordie]

Some must know how much suffering their policys cause and just don't give a s,, they could be classed as evil but it's the same with all ideology's, it can make people take a philosophical view to clear the conscience of any guilt for the suffering they cause, it's all for the greater good and they believe having a Tory party is for the greater good of the country.

[Rush 82]

Cameron was actually.... fine? Like he was a bit of a tit and fundamentally a Tory but he held liberal views and was much closer to the center.

But then he does the whole referendum thing so can rot in hell for all eternity.

What it the technical term for someone with an IQ of zero? That's him

[killer-heels]

Cameron was actually.... fine? Like he was a bit of a tit and fundamentally a Tory but he held liberal views and was much closer to the center.

But then he does the whole referendum thing so can rot in hell for all eternity.

Do we need the Prime Minister to have such 'liberal' views? Of course we don't want someone to try to reverse all social progression but is that even possible now? Its society that pushes democracies in countries like this toward such a social position than what Prime Ministers do. All Cameron did was reflect national opinion.

[filopastry]

I used to work with someone many years ago who was actually probably just about the nicest person I worked with in that job, just a genuinely straightforward, pleasant person.

I didn't keep in touch with them after moving jobs, so you can imagine my shock one day when I saw that they were a Tory MP and indeed subsequently became a Minister.

Utterly bizarre, as I would never have put them down as being a Tory or even particularly political, maybe some of them just hide it better than others!

[Redman0151]

Do we need the Prime Minister to have such 'liberal' views? Of course we don't want someone to try to reverse all social progression but is that even possible now? Its society that pushes democracies in countries like this toward such a social position than what Prime Ministers do. All Cameron did was reflect national opinion.

An interesting point, although if you look at polls for public support of things like the Death Sentence or the return of National Service, especially among older generations, i'm glad all the parties think it's nonsense.

[filopastry]

An interesting point, although if you look at polls for public support of things like the Death Sentence or the return of National Service, especially among older generations, i'm glad all the parties think it's nonsense.

Too true

No doubt UKIP will drag it all up in their desperate attempts for votes and attention.

[Purple Red]

Some of them may be evil, but I think a lot of them are just thick. Much like many politicians.

[killer-heels]

An interesting point, although if you look at polls for public support of things like the Death Sentence or the return of National Service, especially among older generations, i'm glad all the parties think it's nonsense.

Its still a minority (or less than 50%) position than not so its still against public opinion and becoming even less the norm. Also, whilst people might still hold those views, that doesnt means those for National Service, for the Death penalty or against LGBTQ rights would fight against it.

[Redman0151]

Too true

No doubt UKIP will drag it all up in their desperate attempts for votes and attention.

Well UKIP are already firmly in self parody mode so it wouldn't surprise me

[Purple Red]

Well UKIP are already firmly in self parody mode so it wouldn't surprise me

Talk about populism.

What's next? Free beer for all?

[Jake]

Save the average family 400 quid a year by getting rid of the license fee and vat on fish and chips?

Licence fee is what, £147.00. That leaves 253 quid in Vat on fish and chips.

So the average family spends £1265 a year on fish and chips??! No, it's a blatant lie that they're allowed to spout with no come back. Utter bollocks.

[Crosby Nick]

Save the average family 400 quid a year by getting rid of the license fee and vat on fish and chips?

Licence fee is what, £147.00. That leaves 253 quid in Vat on fish and chips.

So the average family spends £1265 a year on fish and chips??! No, it's a blatant lie that they're allowed to spout with no come back. Utter bollocks.

Price of cod's gone through the roof mate. Them bloody Europeans nicking our fishing grounds innit.

[Dr. Beaker]

Did anyone see that mini debate/interview with Theresa Villiers at the weekend. She was a bit flustered and hyper, and just this side of incoherent, but the really funny bit was when she came to the end of one sentence of jibberish, then inexplicably just said the word 'strong' - as a sort of one word paragraph - and then embarked upon another sentence of unrelated jibberish. They must have even chortled at the Conservative Party Central Office.

[Libertine]

Good insight to a typical Tory voter.....

https://twitter.com/hoodedman1187/status/858422995689275392

[TheShanklyGates]

Good insight to a typical Tory voter.....

https://twitter.com/hoodedman1187/status/858422995689275392

Brilliant that.

Here it is in full for anyone who doesn't want to scroll through 50+ tweets.

I have been thinking about the "strong and stable" mantra, in the context of my mum, who thinks Theresa May is great.

She is absolutely a product of post war Social democracy (born 1947), got 6 good O levels despite failing the 11+. Got a civil service job. Got into a mess due to creating me with my irresponsible dad, but then met my step fascist. Worked part time, had my sister, had 5 years out, Went back and did a local authority job until redundancy, aged 59. Her and step fascist paid off their mortgage in their early 50s.

Due to how law works re property they also ended up owning his parents home. So, 2 homes, both retired in their 50s. Endless holidays. Both on pension income before state pension kicked in, from working in public sector. He worked 33 years for the MoD. In one workplace. She worked for the predecessor to DWP, 2 years out, 4 years part time in insurance, 5 years out, then 24 years local authority. 3 workplaces.

There were 4 bad years for her (the me arriving/my dad leaving years) but we had a council flat. There were inflation years in the late 70s. But from the mid 80 had 2 incomes, 3 cars, me off their hands at university, on a grant so they had no expenses. Lots of holidays. Lots.

In the 90s they paid off the mortgage. In the space of a few years they both got made redundant but neither needed to work again. Or claim. They then acquired another house, due to how the law allows property to be moved around. From parents who lived on govt pension for 30 years.

Basically, in material terms, since the early 80s they've had no money worries. They've had stability. From their 40s to their 70s.

They also had stability in their earlier lives through full employment, the NHS, workplace/union rights, public sector employment, education.

And although they were children in the first Austerity era (late 40s/early 50s) it was their parents who'd born the brunt of that.

They had the stability of Post war social democracy. Then, from 79, when my mum voted for you know who, they got the income from the shares. They got the income from property prices. They got the dividends of Thatcherism and they've got the pensions from post war social democracy. So they've had a lot of stability. Stability was their era. So, if you appeal to them with "Stability" they recognise themselves.

And because they did well, largely because of timing, out of the upswing of Thatcherism, the shares, the mortgage pay off (the MIRAS too).
And because this happened after the rockiness of the inflation years and the disruption and 'discontent) of 78/9 (when my sister was born).

They also identify with "strong", i.e. Thatcher putting a stop to disruption. Stepfascist hated her (misogynist) mum liked her, quietly. "Strong and Stable" work for them. They've had a lot of stability and the "strong leadership" years is when their living standards went up, and of course, they don't have an analysis that sees this in terms of periods of "settlement". They don't see themselves as being stable because of post war social democracy. And they don't see their having benefited from the rupture of that settlement as a historical thing. They see themselves as having the right qualities, the right approach to life. Their stability comes from the "working hard and saving" even though they've had more holidays than anyone I've ever met. And were well into the bank of his mum and dad (i.e. civil service pension).

And also, as gleeful Brexiteers, they don't see any of the stability or material comfort as having coming from 45 year of EEC/EU membership.
Nor do they associate the move from UK holidays (1970s) to EU holidays (1980s onwards) to be anything to do with being EU citizens. They see it all as being due to their personal ability to get life right, to save money through DIY, to look out for bargains and good deals. They see "strong and stable" as values they associate with their own characters, their being able to live right and get deserved rewards. And they see Stability as Strength. Their stability is because they are strong. The stability came under Thatcher because she was strong and they see May, their contemporary, reflecting it back at them. Stability is a strength. A character strength. That people their age have. They overcame instability (bad marriage/no money, prices, strikes) by being strong. They don't see healthcare, education, housing, rights and they see the struggles, failures & penury of their children - me, my sister, as failures of New Labour. Borrowing money, switching jobs. They had stability because they were strong. We have instability because we are weak, flighty, we get into debt, we can't keep a job. Weak

I can see how this works for them. "Strong and Stable: that's what we are." It resonates. It reinforces. Its a load of crap. But it works.
And now they come out with rubbish like "I'm sure we'll get a good deal because Theresa May is strong" and "we can trade with Australia". My mum thinks Theresa May is "really good because I think she'll get us a good deal" Which is just faith. Faith that being 'strong' works and faith that if you are 'strong' that this will restore Britain to what it was when they did well out of it. Strong will get you Stable.

Its delusional nonsense. Its the politics of Affect. But its a structure of feeling. It ignores history, it locks on to characteristics.

Also, of course, its difficult to counter it by giving your parents a little lecture on the Post War settlement and the neoliberal rupture.

But I think you can just guilt trip the fuck out of them. What about my child? What about my 13yo. She won't have what you had. Is that "strong and stable" mum? Your granddaughter having to pay private health insurance when she might not even be able to get a job? That's my tactics. I see your "strong and stable" I raise you "you have voted to make your grandchildren's lives unstable and precarious". Don't mind me, mum, I'm Generation "You'll probably outlive me anyway". I'm a hopeless failure, an unworldly dreamer. Who needs stability?

So I think "Strong and Stable" works for many people (millions). And I don't think "its alright for you, you had it so good " will work but I do think you have to have a go at it. "is this strong and stable?" (housing, in work poverty, debt, health, energy, rights), But more than that, especially for my parents generation and all of that lot. How is your "strong and stable" going to help your grandkids? Because when I talk to my mum and I say "you know your grandchildren almost certainly won't get a state pension" she says "I know".

So, for me, we have to guilt trip them. We're fucked, they don't care. But happy faces on school photos? ... who will never know stability?

Get at them. Get after them. Strong and stable works. If you project it backwards. So you have to project it forwards. To see it crack.

The little conversation underneath is worth quoting as well.

This is 100% my Mum. Born the same year. Swans up and down in a 5 bed house in the countryside. Retired 11 years ago. Rolls her eyes when I work 60hrs a week, haven't had a holiday for 11 years and can't always food shop every week..but WHAT do you spend your money on, Rachel?

I have 4 kids. We both work a total of 100 hrs a week. We can't make ends meet and she does not get this AT all. I have given up explaining.

I see her about 4 times a year. Last time she came up I took her to Asda, I needed something for Sunday dinner. I shit you not, right, she held a £32 joint of beef up and said 'here, this will do for your lot. Not. A. Clue. None.

I'm sorry, I think you have it much worse and I worry that I have opened wounds with what I wrote. I get on well with my mum. We don't have massive rows, we just don't see the world the same way. They are comfortably off, they don't lord it. I am living in poverty. My mum helps me and my sister ... but her vote, her world view on things like Brexit, identity issues, gender politics its looking backwards,
its a nostalgia for a more homogeneous, authoritarian, stratified, safer ... stronger and more stable world. I say, its gone, its just gone. She will say "maybe you're right" but she doesn't think so. She's hopeful that Theresa May can deliver some world in which I wouldn't fail and I have to say she wants a world in which I couldn't succeed and nor could my daughter, or my nephew. I have to try to get through.

[Millie]

My Mum and late Dad are the total opposite of that - thank God.  Dad voted Labour all his life, and Mum still does.  She really cares about what is going to happen to me and my kids.

My Mum has a decent pension, savings and hasn't had to pay a mortgage for years but she also has a conscience.  Wish more OAPs were more like her.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

The Tories aren't even properly 'conservative' anymore, they're happy to wreck anything in search of a quid or two. They don't even follow their own doctrine properly.

[12C]

Seems coffee is only for the tories and the upper  classes

https://twitter.com/antony_calvert/status/853880478117617665

This guy is apparently a candidate in Yorkshire, and thinks working class people shouldn't be going into Costa.
Some of the replies are good, but I bet there are a good few Yorkshire tories who think that way.
I worked in Yorkshire in 79, just prior to the election, and when Maggie came to town I thought they were getting a donkey and palm leaves for her, the way the 'ordinary' folk reacted.

[Beard]

Not all evil obviously, like not everyone who voted for Brexit was racist.

Selfish and ignorant more like.

[JackWard33]

Define evil and also define good so I can vote please

[So… Howard Philips]

Not all evil obviously, like not everyone who voted for Brexit was racist.

Selfish and ignorant more like.

Add a bit of smugness and you're on the right track.

[12C]

May now wrapping herself in the Union Flag and blaming the EU beaureaucrats for showing her up.

[Trada]

Totally.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/fHLwf1lfGeA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/fHLwf1lfGeA</a>

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Seems coffee is only for the tories and the upper  classes

https://twitter.com/antony_calvert/status/853880478117617665

This guy is apparently a candidate in Yorkshire, and thinks working class people shouldn't be going into Costa.
Some of the replies are good, but I bet there are a good few Yorkshire tories who think that way.
I worked in Yorkshire in 79, just prior to the election, and when Maggie came to town I thought they were getting a donkey and palm leaves for her, the way the 'ordinary' folk reacted.

Mark Dobson‏ @dobsonprettyg  23h23 hours ago
More
Replying to @antony_calvert
Can't say I've ever said t'working class and I'm from Wakefield!! What exactly is t'working is it like you you're a t'wat??

[Peabee]

There have been and are still some decent conservatives, but if you're a nasty greedy piece of work who wants to get into government, then they're the party for you.  Hence, the fact at least half are evil.

[Jake]

Seems coffee is only for the tories and the upper  classes

https://twitter.com/antony_calvert/status/853880478117617665

This guy is apparently a candidate in Yorkshire, and thinks working class people shouldn't be going into Costa.
Some of the replies are good, but I bet there are a good few Yorkshire tories who think that way.
I worked in Yorkshire in 79, just prior to the election, and when Maggie came to town I thought they were getting a donkey and palm leaves for her, the way the 'ordinary' folk reacted.

That's going to be my local MP if he knocks the incumbent labour MP out of her seat. I think I'm gonna have to vote Labour.