Topic: Babel: I'm not finished here

[Red in Korea]

The point is he scored a goal last night that would have had some people stroking themselves if it had been Nando yet some people are focusing on a passage of play that broke down because he made a wrong decision.

Nando inevitably makes mistakes in games that he scores in but people don't go on about a missed chance or misplaced pass.

Note that I didn't say "if Ryan scored once".

[U13]

Note that I didn't say "if Ryan scored once".

You're missing the point I'm trying to make.

When Nando plays and scores the errors for the most part are forgotten.

When Babel plays well and scores the errors are the focus.

[mulfella]

chance is gone.


Oh, our fantastic Torres doesn't run down a blind alley from time to time.  That is the trouble with how people judge Ryan - he's never cut any slack.  Everything he does wrong is magnified.  Times when he doesn't play for a few games and then comes on for 10 min and he's suppose to be fantastic.

How about a similar ball that he played to Joe Cole last week probably easier to score than the Maxi goal but why do we want to pick out anything positive about the lad.

Course everyone makes mistakes, and bad decisions, and you will note i did highlight something good he did.

However i picked that specific example because the situations were very similar, and in both cases the player had time to decide the best step. In babels case, he got it wrong, and then again when he had a second bite.

[Red in Korea]

You're missing the point I'm trying to make.

When Nando plays and scores the errors for the most part are forgotten.

When Babel plays well and scores the errors are the focus.

And you're missing the point I'm trying to make and that is that when players rise to legendary status, they get cut a lot more slack (regardsless of whether or not they have scored in that game). We all get frustrated when Torres runs into a wall of players and loses the ball, but the hope and expectation that next time he'll go through them all and score remains. He's proven that over time. With Babel he hasn't (yet!) and without that hope all you have is the frustration.

I'm not saying its necessarily right or wrong - just trying to explain to you the way it works.

[mulfella]

And you're missing the point I'm trying to make and that is that when players rise to legendary status, they get cut a lot more slack (regardsless of whether or not they have scored in that game). We all get frustrated when Torres runs into a wall of players and loses the ball, but the hope and expectation that next time he'll go through them all and score remains. He's proven that over time. With Babel he hasn't (yet!) and without that hope all you have is the frustration.

I'm not saying its necessarily right or wrong - just trying to explain to you the way it works.

The other collary to that is the fact that he's clearly got the tools. Thats why he's baffling.

If he was Poulsen then we could all (un)happily agree he's a useless shitbag and be done with it.

[Red_Rich]

Nando inevitably makes mistakes in games that he scores in but people don't go on about a missed chance or misplaced pass.

Don't they?  I think it's the opposite.  When Nando misses chances, like at Spurs, not only does his ability get a good disecting, he gets psycho-analysed and people talk about whether he's had enough here and when will he leave.  He can't even turn his back on a penalty without people saying something's wrong with the lad!

[Gaz123456]

Babel needs to have a run of 8 to 10 games as a starter if he is to make his mark, and I can't see Roy doing that

[GrkStav]

Babel needs to have a run of 8 to 10 games as a starter if he is to make his mark, and I can't see Roy doing that

Eight to ten games as a starter? Regardless of how well or poorly he actually performs?

How do you figure?

[Beninger]

Babel needs to have a run of 8 to 10 games as a starter if he is to make his mark, and I can't see Roy doing that

TBF, Roy saw Raul and Lucas play their games for the national team, and pretty much after that they were starting as a partnership in the middle.  Let's hope he does the same for Ryan, as long as his form continues like the other two...

[OldCold]

Give him 30minutes againt toon, then start in europa.

I'd start him in the next few home EPL games also.

[Spanish Al]

Eight to ten games as a starter? Regardless of how well or poorly he actually performs?

How do you figure?

Because Dirk gets that, and so did Maxi. And inevitably, Maxi is now in great form because of being played consistently. Dirk hasnt reached that form after numerous starts so its time for Babel to now get the same sort of run.

[Alf]

Cracking finish last night. Worthy of that celebration afterwards.

[scatman]

let him start with Torres against the Toon, he will mercilessly expose that defence, as much as I like Ngog, I think the pace of Torres and Babel will be deadly against those luney fools. good game yesterday, keep it up son

[Rohit]

I hope he continues this run and keeps scoring, assisting and working hard and chasing lost causes.

[robgomm]

What a lovely finish that was last night, most delightful. Keep it up you big nancy.

[DubsLFC]

I thought babel looked good last night. Obviously i wouldn't start him over Nando anytime soon in EPL games but why not give him a few more starts in the europa?

[robgomm]

N'Gog & Babel is worth another go against Utrecht I'd say.

[kevmck]

i missed the goal (actually missed the whole first half) - just watched the vid.. hell of a finish.

the problem with babel is that he's been inconsistent, if he can find that consistency theres no reason why he couldn't start every game, the catch-22 is that to get consistent he has to be played.

personally, i wouldn't let him go, and i'd start putting him in more often

[Fuzion6]

Babel and Torres against the shocking Newcastle defence would be the combination I would go for on the weekend.

[John C]

You  must have missed Djibril Cisse's Liverpool career then mate. 

You must have been asleep when Cisse was here. 

One of the most frustrating and definitely the most annoying consistent aspect of an LFC players career.


Oh, that and Kuyt's ability to balloon a ball.

[U13]

And you're missing the point I'm trying to make and that is that when players rise to legendary status, they get cut a lot more slack (regardsless of whether or not they have scored in that game). We all get frustrated when Torres runs into a wall of players and loses the ball, but the hope and expectation that next time he'll go through them all and score remains. He's proven that over time. With Babel he hasn't (yet!) and without that hope all you have is the frustration.

I'm not saying its necessarily right or wrong - just trying to explain to you the way it works.

I understand how it works but it doesn't change the fact it's daft.

All players are going to make mistakes regardless of ability.

He played last week assisted a goal and was our best player on the pitch, he played yesterday put in a good performance and scored  so if these things aren't doing anything to get him some slack he might as well just not bother making the effort....but then it would be 'Babel is lazy blah blah blah' instead of 'yeah he scored but did you see the mistake he made'.

Let's be honest some people just don't like him, you only have to look at some of the stuff in this thread to see that.

Don't they?  I think it's the opposite.  When Nando misses chances, like at Spurs, not only does his ability get a good disecting, he gets psycho-analysed and people talk about whether he's had enough here and when will he leave.  He can't even turn his back on a penalty without people saying something's wrong with the lad!

I said when Nando scores but makes mistakes people don't focus on the mistake like they do with Babel, Nando didn't score against Tottenham. If Nando had scored that goal last night do you honestly think people would be focusing on a poor pass he made in the same game?

[SkinHimHesShite]

He seemed in-tune with the pace of the game- that doesnt happen often. you could tell he was up for it.

Definately showing improved concentration though. Has he ever been played up front in a 442 before? I think he has strong similarities to anelka in terms of where his best position/contributions can be. If he's with someone like n'gog who can hold it up, he can work well collecting 2nd balls and running at defenders.

Hopefully he will get some more chances and put more performances in. should play vs newcastle but definately will against utrecht.

[penga]

He was only informed he was playing the match 2 hrs before the game.

With more pitch time his positioning and decision making will improve. When he has played earlier this season I thought I saw an improvement in decision making already, like he was running at a defender or towards the byline then all of a sudden laid a ball back to the edge of the box for a teammate for a clear shot quite a few times. Or instead of rushing down the touch line as soon as he receives it, he holds the ball up and waits for guys to get into box then beats his man with a simple tap and run then cross. He has been trying less tricks and keeping it simple to gain confidence in matches.

In his starts, against Trabzonspor he was fed nothing, then got 1 chance and scored off it, against Steaua (H) he worked very hard and played decently, against Northampton he was bad (but not atrocious) and so was the rest of the team and it was absolutely pouring down with rain. Then obviously played well in his last 2 starts. In all his sub appearances he has looked good and made an impact.

He has a good record when vsing Newcastle, hope he plays.

[Super Whopper Fan]

Ahh yes Mr Ryan Babel, the conundrum, the enigma, the mystery shrouded in confusion, covered in talent, sprayed with doubt and doused in uncertanty. What do you do with the lad, every ounce of the rational, logical and ordered says get rid, but the dreamer, the heart, the believer, the what if says play him, go on you know you want to, even if he has the equivilant footballing brain of an armadilo.

[Beninger]

That whole goal of his was very nicely worked.  From the tackle by Ngog, to the perfect triangle started by Raul, continued by Maxi and then perfectly set up by Lucas.  I love how Babel made space between him and the ball with his forehead and was even nudged as he was hitting the ball.  Great goal...

[Beninger]

Babel and Torres against the shocking Newcastle defence would be the combination I would go for on the weekend.

They've played well already together.  Last year in Europe; I forgot the game.  Babel can play the one touch game.  With him, Torres and Maxi, with Lucas and Raul in support, it could be very dynamic...

[bigbear]

Just play him.

[ryatnalkar]

That whole goal of his was very nicely worked.  From the tackle by Ngog, to the perfect triangle started by Raul, continued by Maxi and then perfectly set up by Lucas.  I love how Babel made space between him and the ball with his forehead and was even nudged as he was hitting the ball.  Great goal...

That is a beautiful description of the goal. Thanks!

[GrkStav]

He seemed in-tune with the pace of the game- that doesnt happen often. you could tell he was up for it.

Definately showing improved concentration though. Has he ever been played up front in a 442 before? I think he has strong similarities to anelka in terms of where his best position/contributions can be. If he's with someone like Ngog who can hold it up, he can work well collecting 2nd balls and running at defenders.

Hopefully he will get some more chances and put more performances in. should play vs newcastle but definately will against utrecht.

The only negative I noticed was a lingering over-eagerness for the individual spectacular play, rather than the unselfish pass to a colleague. I know he fancies himself higher on the totem pole than Ngog (and Ngog is not always unselfish himself) but there were occasions in the 2nd half of the A. Villa game where he could easily have attempted either a straight pass or a one-two with Ngog and chose not.

He also still attempts to shield people off with his body too much instead of moving the ball along with simple pass-and-move. He's a big, strong, powerful lad but he's remarkably incapable of holding defenders off so he should give it a rest with the body maneuvering and play proper "Dutch" football.

[penga]

The only negative I noticed was a lingering over-eagerness for the individual spectacular play, rather than the unselfish pass to a colleague. I know he fancies himself higher on the totem pole than Ngog (and Ngog is not always unselfish himself) but there were occasions in the 2nd half of the A. Villa game where he could easily have attempted either a straight pass or a one-two with Ngog and chose not.

Same shit with Ngog lol, not like Babel went for any fancy dribbles except 1 at the end which was required to retain the ball.

He also still attempts to shield people off with his body too much instead of moving the ball along with simple pass-and-move. He's a big, strong, powerful lad but he's remarkably incapable of holding defenders off so he should give it a rest with the body maneuvering and play proper "Dutch" football.

Same shit with Ngog lol who was tackled 8 times (and falls over heaps even though he is even bigger) compared to Babel's 2 and had a much worse pass completion rate.

Biased opinion much lol!! You only see the bad of the player u dislike and not the player u like. Funny isn't it?

[XabiArt]

Babels set up his own facebook page today.

In the discussions board he wrote.

Topic: Winger or Striker

Ryan Babel Verified
Ryan prefers to play striker but he hasn't played it for almost 4 years straight ..(Presumably a quote and not his writing)
How much time does he gets to prove people that he is better upfront then wide ? (His words)

[Jay-J]

Probably slightly hard done by in terms of chances. Claims striker is his best position. Give him a run of games there and give him the chance to prove himself. If he fails sell him.

[Sublimit]

Yeah exactly... i mean i don't follow united closely but i've seen Nani's development through highlights and it's happened because the fucking manager has given him games. Babel hasn't had that and i do coincide these 2 players for that reason alone, fuck he's a c*nt that Nani and a cheat but for me.... red tints off .... . he's just over Bale ATM Bales league form is letting him down while the whole of Europe thinks he's Messi like,,,, the best winger in Europe in etc....

[The 5th Benitle]

Can I register a complaint that a poster has said 'lol' three times in one post. Makes me want to col.

Ryan remains a riddle wrapped in an enigma. Can't decide if he still has time or will be given the opportunity to prove his undoubted potential.
Is it worth keeping him if he is not going to get the regular games he needs? All he can really expect is the chance to start in Cup games unless there are injuries.

[rafa4eva]

Ive looked at Babel over the years hes been at LFC and felt awe, hope, pride, frustration, bewilderment and a whole host of other adjectives and the common thing between them all, is that they cover the spectrum of human emotions from one extreme to the other. He is so inconsistent he is consistent, if you follow my meaning. He truely is an enigma, more so than any other player I can think of regards the feeling that its lack of application which is the issue, and there is a deep well of talent which he is holding back on. I make it sound like hes doing it on purpose and I dont think that is the case at all to be honest, IMO i think its been a case of natural process of gaining maturity and experience.

However ! In hindsight I believe we could not wait for a player we had invested 11.5mill for 3 years to provide consistent performances. IMO he could become an Henry, compared to Ngog who I believe has similarities to Trezquet, but how much longer are we going to have to wait? Playing Devil's advocate is Walcott any better regards consistency? Not sure, probably but not too much, the issue is can we as a team carry players like this, class but inconsistent? We jettisoned Luis Garcia for inconsistency, but compared to Babel he was far more consistent, a big game player and if he did get lost in a physical game it wasnt for want of trying but whats a short a*se going to do! I was gutted when Luis left, he was the type of luxury player we should have kept when getting Torres, the irony is that as we built a 1st 11 which was bordering world class we lost players of Luis's calibre, Crouch, even Bellamy could have been part of the squad, they should have been the marker for our bench and reserves ie you need to be better than these guys but the yanks conspired against us.

Personally I dont think Babel is the answer especially in the striker role, and im not sure the extra time has improved him compared to Ngog who is getting better, or more effective with time, so in summary I believe Rafa should have moved him on BUT I have a feeling Rafa wasnt sure whether he would get the money back to get a replacement and maybe regards Babel, hope did spring eternal in Rafa's mind either way, IMO its time Babel found a new club and we found a replacement we could make more use of....

[careful on these streets, I've heard stories]

Ive looked at Babel over the years hes been at LFC and felt awe, hope, pride, frustration, bewilderment and a whole host of other adjectives and the common thing between them all, is that they cover the spectrum of human emotions from one extreme to the other. He is so inconsistent he is consistent, if you follow my meaning. He truely is an enigma, more so than any other player I can think of regards the feeling that its lack of application which is the issue, and there is a deep well of talent which he is holding back on. I make it sound like hes doing it on purpose and I dont think that is the case at all to be honest, IMO i think its been a case of natural process of gaining maturity and experience.

However ! In hindsight I believe we could not wait for a player we had invested 11.5mill for 3 years to provide consistent performances. IMO he could become an Henry, compared to Ngog who I believe has similarities to Trezquet, but how much longer are we going to have to wait? Playing Devil's advocate is Walcott any better regards consistency? Not sure, probably but not too much, the issue is can we as a team carry players like this, class but inconsistent? We jettisoned Luis Garcia for inconsistency, but compared to Babel he was far more consistent, a big game player and if he did get lost in a physical game it wasnt for want of trying but whats a short a*se going to do! I was gutted when Luis left, he was the type of luxury player we should have kept when getting Torres, the irony is that as we built a 1st 11 which was bordering world class we lost players of Luis's calibre, Crouch, even Bellamy could have been part of the squad, they should have been the marker for our bench and reserves ie you need to be better than these guys but the yanks conspired against us.

Personally I dont think Babel is the answer especially in the striker role, and im not sure the extra time has improved him compared to Ngog who is getting better, or more effective with time, so in summary I believe Rafa should have moved him on BUT I have a feeling Rafa wasnt sure whether he would get the money back to get a replacement and maybe regards Babel, hope did spring eternal in Rafa's mind either way, IMO its time Babel found a new club and we found a replacement we could make more use of....

Totally disagree, i think the problem babel has had is he is a Striker being played out of position and doesn't have the skills required to play on the wings. Yes he is strong and fast but he isn't creative or very good at passing, he also can't dribble or hold the ball up very well. If we look at his strengths you'll find he is more suited to the striker role, he is strong, quick, a very good striker of the ball and is good at making space for himself in the box to take shots. Positioning and other attributes of a striker will come when he plays there more often.

I really feel we should give him a chance to play as a striker before we spend any money on one, if he fails so be it sell him but i doubt he will. Furthermore you can see he really wants to do well as a striker, I remember he play as a lone striker against Chelsea and did well. I for one am really happy Roy is giving him a chance but I can see his chances being limited except Gerrard is moved to the right.

[GrkStav]

Same shit with Ngog lol, not like Babel went for any fancy dribbles except 1 at the end which was required to retain the ball.

Same shit with Ngog lol who was tackled 8 times (and falls over heaps even though he is even bigger) compared to Babel's 2 and had a much worse pass completion rate.

Biased opinion much lol!! You only see the bad of the player u dislike and not the player u like. Funny isn't it?

Who the heck are you and what have you been smoking?

[keyop]

doesn't have the skills required to play on the wings......................................he isn't creative or very good at passing......................................he also can't dribble or hold the ball up very well.

I really feel we should give him a chance to play as a striker before we spend any money on one.

 

[zmemonia]

, i think the problem babel has had is he is a Striker being played out of position and  Yes he is strong and fast but he isn't creative or very good at passing,  If we look at his strengths you'll find he is more suited to the striker role, he is strong, quick, a very good striker of the ball and is good at making space for himself in the box to take shots

well said 

[PJG]

Am I the only one that thought, that the only reason Babel never started (at least from the second season) was becuase of his pace, rather than lack of ability..  What coach wouldn't want to have that kind of pace come of the bench against tired legs.  Then again.. It might also be because he went to the olympics which pissed Rafa off.