Author Topic: The UK have acccepted Brexit  (Read 4543 times)

Offline The Andy Williams Xmas Album Live From Allerton!

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The UK have acccepted Brexit
« on: June 18, 2022, 01:48:55 pm »
Been on my holibobs and seen quite a few things when chilling and catching up with world mediia that this statement is fairly standard

Have we accepted it?

I binned quite a few people that turned out to be inbred racist bigoted c*nts

I don't accept anything and I'm glad these dickheads outed themselves and I've fucked them off

But is anyone else of a different opinion? Forgive and forget? Move on?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2022, 01:50:49 pm by Andy @ Allerton! »
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2022, 02:18:58 pm »
Really not sure. Part of me thinks letís just sit tight, let some of the heat get out of the argument and then start making the case for rejoining the EU in good time, I still donít think weíve seen all of the fall out of leaving yet and we need to let that take effect before reopening the debate. Covid has hidden a lot of the issues or the can was kicked down the road because of it. But I think at a minimum it will be another 20 years at the earliest that we could rejoin and some of us might not even be around to see it.

But thereís also part of me that thinks whatís the point in waiting? Some of the idiots who voted wonít ever accept it was a mistake so thereís no point in waiting for them to change their minds because they never will and the Remain/Rejoin campaign should start ASAP and hope we can convince enough Leavers of their folly.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2022, 02:20:48 pm by west_london_red »
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Offline 67CherryRed

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2022, 02:24:21 pm »
As time passes more and more of those who voted for it will be in the ground. There's no way the youth of today will accept the current situation for the rest of their lives.

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2022, 04:43:52 pm »
As time passes more and more of those who voted for it will be in the ground. There's no way the youth of today will accept the current situation for the rest of their lives.

That's pretty much my synopsis.

No way will people accept this - when they see something so much better over the water - just the airport queues alone should be enough.
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Offline Machae

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2022, 06:27:37 pm »
Any return will be less favourable than the one we had to begin with. Still, better than the shit we have now anyway

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2022, 06:39:23 pm »
I fear this will put us back 50 years. The children of the selfish & the bigots will turn out the same. Perhaps the benefits of EU membership will be forgotten & we will become increasingly insular. The pro-freedum propaganda will continue to be pumped out to keep its leaders in power whilst our economy continues to decline.

Jeez I sound like Frankie Boyle.
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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2022, 06:47:05 pm »
As time passes more and more of those who voted for it will be in the ground. There's no way the youth of today will accept the current situation for the rest of their lives.

Not a chance they will, my teenage lad hates Brexit, he hates that he can't just go and live in Europe when he leaves school if he wants. His generation and the older ones will not accept this. It might take 15 or 20 years, but by then there will be a few million who voted for it who are no more and a few million kids able to vote and they will want change.

I fear this will put us back 50 years. The children of the selfish & the bigots will turn out the same. Perhaps the benefits of EU membership will be forgotten & we will become increasingly insular. The pro-freedum propaganda will continue to be pumped out to keep its leaders in power whilst our economy continues to decline.

Jeez I sound like Frankie Boyle.

That Nazi c*nt Mogg said it would take 50 years.

That's pretty much my synopsis.

No way will people accept this - when they see something so much better over the water - just the airport queues alone should be enough.

Imagine if we had a willing work force who could freely come here and pick fruit and veg and take jobs as baggage handlers and ground crew.........
« Last Edit: June 18, 2022, 06:48:43 pm by rob1966 »
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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2022, 10:22:22 pm »
Iíll never accept it. I think it was the worst thing to happen to this country in our lifetime, and we havenít even seen the worst of it yet (plus, things like Covid and the war in Ukraine are being blamed for a lot of the shit thatís happening at the moment, which is a nice convenient result for the Brexiteers).

Putting aside the sheer stupidity of not being able to trade with our closest neighbours and the economic catastrophe that results from that, itís also given a lot of people license to act like horrible racist arseholes, and weíve become a much more nasty and embarrassing country. If Cameron hadnít had set up the referendum (which, let us not forget, he only did as he was worried about his voters defecting to Frottage and arrogantly thought Remain would easily win), we wouldnít have Johnson in power and all the shit thatís resulted from that. I genuinely think Cameron belongs in jail for how much he damaged this country.

Offline andy07

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2022, 10:25:53 pm »
That's pretty much my synopsis.

No way will people accept this - when they see something so much better over the water - just the airport queues alone should be enough.

My kids are 23 and 20.  They reckon maybe 20% of their age group support Brexit. 
We are Loyal Supporters

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2022, 10:44:29 pm »
I'll never accept it. Not one good thing has come out this fucking thing and the brexiteers are the most arrogant people I have ever come across, just basking in pure racism.

Offline Machae

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2022, 10:46:00 pm »
The effects of Brexit will be normalised so much now and with politicians and media afraid to link the downturn of the economy to Brexit itself, for fear of alienating the voters then there probably won't be such a clamour to go back

Offline Elmo [Almost] Saves Christmas!

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2022, 10:58:10 pm »
Thankfully I don't have to accept it - I have a way out of this mess and back in to the EU along with my fellow Scots. I feel for those of you without that option. You don't even have a party that has a chance of gaining power that is willing to fight it.

Offline Machae

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2022, 11:15:43 pm »
On the face of it, no party wants to fight it, instead they're arguing to make it work. Dont know how they do that


Offline oldfordie

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2022, 11:33:45 pm »
Iíll never accept it. I think it was the worst thing to happen to this country in our lifetime, and we havenít even seen the worst of it yet (plus, things like Covid and the war in Ukraine are being blamed for a lot of the shit thatís happening at the moment, which is a nice convenient result for the Brexiteers).

Putting aside the sheer stupidity of not being able to trade with our closest neighbours and the economic catastrophe that results from that, itís also given a lot of people license to act like horrible racist arseholes, and weíve become a much more nasty and embarrassing country. If Cameron hadnít had set up the referendum (which, let us not forget, he only did as he was worried about his voters defecting to Frottage and arrogantly thought Remain would easily win), we wouldnít have Johnson in power and all the shit thatís resulted from that. I genuinely think Cameron belongs in jail for how much he damaged this country.
We haven't seen the worse of it, Johnson is still refusing to implement his Brexit fully as it will bring chaos. the more we diverge the more messy things become. the hard right said they want to make it impossible for us to re-join the EU in the future, I assume they mean tying us into long term commitments.


I can understand and accept why people voted leave in June 2016 but there were no excuses for voting for it again over 3yrs later in Dec 2019, the real damage was done in those 3 yrs in between votes.
I really don't think the country has the appetite to go through another Brexit campaign full of debates and arguments. the Labour politicians certainly don't as it's a no win situation now.

Imo The best case scenario is for a Labour government to take power and allow NI flourish, the Torys fear this already,  a direct easy comparison, NI as good as in the SM is flourishing, rest of UK outside the SM is tanking, we have to have the same deal, it's the most sensible option. our economy will pick up. no worry's or complications over a border in Ireland.
I know how they Tory nutty ERG will react. they will hit the roof but how will they fight it if they are out of power for 5 yrs. another referendum, arguing what? we might as well be back in the EU. fair enough, let them call for another referendum.
Labour will need to go far further than the Torys have to solve all these serious problems. they know that but they don't have to announce those compromises until they are in power.
It all depends on Labour getting a decent majority in 2024 to scare the crap out of the Tory party and drag the majority of Tory MPs who were pro EU SM back to the same Tory party pre 2016.
Unison voted to back PR yesterday, who knows, might end up being in next Labour manifesto.
Many want Starmer to fight to re-join SM.
It's not that am against re-joining the EU or passionately against PR it's more about giving people a reason not to vote Labour.
We're doing Johnson a huge favour making these election issues. Labour can't do sod all for over 2 yrs, the last election was massive, we are paying the cost for that disastrous defeat now.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2022, 11:36:37 pm by oldfordie »
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2022, 12:09:41 am »
We haven't seen the worse of it, Johnson is still refusing to implement his Brexit fully as it will bring chaos. the more we diverge the more messy things become. the hard right said they want to make it impossible for us to re-join the EU in the future, I assume they mean tying us into long term commitments.


I can understand and accept why people voted leave in June 2016 but there were no excuses for voting for it again over 3yrs later in Dec 2019, the real damage was done in those 3 yrs in between votes.
I really don't think the country has the appetite to go through another Brexit campaign full of debates and arguments. the Labour politicians certainly don't as it's a no win situation now.

Imo The best case scenario is for a Labour government to take power and allow NI flourish, the Torys fear this already,  a direct easy comparison, NI as good as in the SM is flourishing, rest of UK outside the SM is tanking, we have to have the same deal, it's the most sensible option. our economy will pick up. no worry's or complications over a border in Ireland.
I know how they Tory nutty ERG will react. they will hit the roof but how will they fight it if they are out of power for 5 yrs. another referendum, arguing what? we might as well be back in the EU. fair enough, let them call for another referendum.
Labour will need to go far further than the Torys have to solve all these serious problems. they know that but they don't have to announce those compromises until they are in power.
It all depends on Labour getting a decent majority in 2024 to scare the crap out of the Tory party and drag the majority of Tory MPs who were pro EU SM back to the same Tory party pre 2016.
Unison voted to back PR yesterday, who knows, might end up being in next Labour manifesto.
Many want Starmer to fight to re-join SM.
It's not that am against re-joining the EU or passionately against PR it's more about giving people a reason not to vote Labour.
We're doing Johnson a huge favour making these election issues. Labour can't do sod all for over 2 yrs, the last election was massive, we are paying the cost for that disastrous defeat now.

You talk a lot about the ideas you have to restore people's faith in politics and yet here you are advocating for Labour to be dishonest with the public. Lying/misleading/whatever you want to call it isn't only bad when the Tories do it.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2022, 12:29:14 am »
You talk a lot about the ideas you have to restore people's faith in politics and yet here you are advocating for Labour to be dishonest with the public. Lying/misleading/whatever you want to call it isn't only bad when the Tories do it.
No. am not arguing for Labour to argue we shouldn't re-join the SM or the EU to get elected and then take us back into the SM or the EU once they get a majority. am saying Labour have 2 yrs before they face a election, that should be spent arguing just how well NI is doing and how NI majority is happy with the deal they have now.  Labour have said this already but it needs hammering, I know the implications of what this means and am sure the ERG nutcases do as well but a closer relationship with more compromise needs to happen and that will be the first step back towards the EU.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 12:50:48 am by oldfordie »
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Offline TSC

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2022, 01:56:26 am »
The worse is impending.  Weíre still operating under Ďgraceí periods.

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2022, 08:41:41 am »
The UK as-a-whole has long accepted Brexit.  The 2019 election settled it once and for all.  I see no way England could ever rejoin.  Scotland theoretically could - though imo the EU in itself is a dead issue there as well, all it is now is a prop to make independence seem less scary in an international environment that is way less stable than it was in 2014.

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2022, 12:45:30 pm »
The UK as-a-whole has long accepted Brexit.  The 2019 election settled it once and for all.  I see no way England could ever rejoin.  Scotland theoretically could - though imo the EU in itself is a dead issue there as well, all it is now is a prop to make independence seem less scary in an international environment that is way less stable than it was in 2014.

Yep. It'll be 20 years minimum before the idea of rejoining is even tentatively talked about by one of the major parties. The next Labour government won't be entertaining the idea, the next Tory government certainly won't be, so the Labour government after the next one will be the earliest possible opportunity and that will be decades from now.

Brexit was as close to a total victory as you can get, the damage is done.
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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2022, 02:28:04 pm »
Itíll be a long time - and any move to rejoin would come from outside the political mainstream (as UKIP did).

I think the UK wonít ever rejoin the EU, certainly not within the next 30 years or so. The single market, or something looking like much closer alignment - quite possible.

Would imagine a United Ireland comes first.

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2022, 02:37:05 pm »
There is no way we are getting back in for at the very least another decade. Just made all that peoples vote thing look incredibly stupid, which is par for the course for the dog shit politicians we have in Labour and the Lib Dems.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2022, 02:43:27 pm »
Fucking hell, this forum is the personification of this meme.




Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2022, 02:51:20 pm »
No. am not arguing for Labour to argue we shouldn't re-join the SM or the EU to get elected and then take us back into the SM or the EU once they get a majority. am saying Labour have 2 yrs before they face a election, that should be spent arguing just how well NI is doing and how NI majority is happy with the deal they have now.  Labour have said this already but it needs hammering, I know the implications of what this means and am sure the ERG nutcases do as well but a closer relationship with more compromise needs to happen and that will be the first step back towards the EU.

You say the bit in bold and then follow it up with the "I know the implications of what this means..." part.

Labour and its supporters needs to stop taking the piss and taking both sides of the Brexit divide for fools.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2022, 03:03:57 pm »
There is no way we are getting back in for at the very least another decade. Just made all that peoples vote thing look incredibly stupid, which is par for the course for the dog shit politicians we have in Labour and the Lib Dems.
The chance to turn Brexit around went in 2016 after Owen Smith lost the leadership election when nobody knew which direction we were going, he was willing to stand toe to toe with the Tory's on Brexit,  he had the guts and the intelligence to do it but all his words of warning were ignored, he warned Labour members about Corbyn not being intelligent or forceful enough to stand up to the Torys, he also argued Corbyn wants Brexit,   Corbyn argued for a SM Norwegian Brexit during those leadership debates in 2016, Corbyn was re-elected and then he literally tossed all his promises for a Norwegian Brexit in the bin within weeks to make the same argument as Theresa May, how we have to leave the SM to deliver Brexit. bang went the SM deal option, no outcry's of treachery from his supporters either,  everything changed after that, we were f.. from that moment on.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 03:10:27 pm by oldfordie »
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Offline Linudden

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2022, 03:15:58 pm »
I ship goods both to Norway and Britain in my work and believe me, it's no easier or cheaper getting things into Norway than Britain in spite of the proximity. The Norwegian customs is a very complicated process all the time. EEA or not. That's the fault of EU regulations and not the Norwegians. They say it's a single market yet block exports as a mechanism of bullying Norway into accepting something else than they agreed to.

The problem with the discourse on this forum is that many people believe the EU are blameless angels who can do no wrong when it's a nasty organization always threatening workers' rights in Nordic countries. It generally only caters to multinational corporations rather than citizens of their member countries. They steal enormous amounts of money from the treasuries of Northern countries for the priviliges of access to the German market for our corporations.

It's just a question of which mean gang, the Tories or the EU should be in charge of the bullying. In your case it seems like 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' more than anything else. One thing is for certain, I'm solely a Swede and have no identification to any European identity. I could care less about it. I have much greater identification to Norway than to any other EU member state for linguistic and cultural reasons. An EU passport doesn't mean I care more about Malta, Bulgaria or Cyprus than I do for my neighbours. Sorry.

The politicians love the project because it allows them cozy MEP jobs where they don't need to do shit for a decade after their domestic career is over. That's what it's devolved into.

Britain with the Bozo clown is a big clusterfuck, but that doesn't mean the EU is in any way something else than an obsolete colossus with no other purpose than dictating laissez-faire capitalism on its subjects. So then the question is: does it really matter if austerity is imposed on you from Westminster or Brussels in the end? They just squabble on who can control the power structure but the end goal of Bozo and the likes of von der Leyen is the same: total domination by the wealthy elites over everyone else.

It's why the EU question is political football to me. Unless you remove the pillars of the abusive system it doesn't actually change that much no matter who's whipping the regular people. For me, having the ability to live abroad means nothing because I don't want to.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 03:29:58 pm by Linudden »
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Offline oldfordie

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2022, 03:22:59 pm »
You say the bit in bold and then follow it up with the "I know the implications of what this means..." part.

Labour and its supporters needs to stop taking the piss and taking both sides of the Brexit divide for fools.
Tell me what you think I mean by the implications as your insinuating I think Labour should lie to voters.
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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2022, 03:30:40 pm »
Fucking hell, this forum is the personification of this meme.





Go on then. We're all ears.
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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2022, 03:54:02 pm »
I ship goods both to Norway and Britain in my work and believe me, it's no easier or cheaper getting things into Norway than Britain in spite of the proximity. The Norwegian customs is a very complicated process all the time. EEA or not. That's the fault of EU regulations and not the Norwegians. They say it's a single market yet block exports as a mechanism of bullying Norway into accepting something else than they agreed to.
But, the much greater problem is exporting from the UK to the EU. The UK can drop all kinds of checks on imports it would have normally applied (from the third countries) when it was a member of the EU to make life easier for itself (in the short term). The proper comparisons for you to make is how easy it is for you to export to the UK compared with other EU countries (not Norway); and how easy is it for you import from the EU compared with importing from the UK?
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2022, 03:57:06 pm »
The problem with the discourse on this forum is that many people believe the EU are blameless angels who can do no wrong when it's a nasty organization always threatening workers' rights in Nordic countries.
I'll probably regret asking this, but please explain.
Quote
It generally only caters to multinational corporations rather than citizens of their member countries.
This is surely bollocks.
Quote
They steal enormous amounts of money from the treasuries of Northern countries for the priviliges of access to the German market for our corporations.
'Steal'? Really!?
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2022, 03:59:58 pm »
Britain with the Bozo clown is a big clusterfuck, but that doesn't mean the EU is in any way something else than an obsolete colossus with no other purpose than dictating laissez-faire capitalism on its subjects. So then the question is: does it really matter if austerity is imposed on you from Westminster or Brussels in the end? They just squabble on who can control the power structure but the end goal of Bozo and the likes of von der Leyen is the same: total domination by the wealthy elites over everyone else.
If there is one demonstrative positive to Brexit, it is that it makes crystal clear that the EU is anything but 'obsolete'.
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2022, 04:10:31 pm »
The only sensible thing I ever saw Kaiser post, and this was after he was banned off here and infected On The Kop, was why the fuck would the UK want a Norway deal, as it was shite compared to what we had in place. He thought the UK was absolutely nuts to want to go down the path certain sections were talking about.
Fuck the Tories

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2022, 04:50:07 pm »
Itíll be a long time - and any move to rejoin would come from outside the political mainstream (as UKIP did).

I think the UK wonít ever rejoin the EU, certainly not within the next 30 years or so. The single market, or something looking like much closer alignment - quite possible.

Would imagine a United Ireland comes first.

Quite clear that the Union will end first in my opinion, only then may any sensible souls with the English political establishment may realise the game's up.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2022, 05:11:07 pm »
Quite clear that the Union will end first in my opinion, only then may any sensible souls with the English political establishment may realise the game's up.

Cant wait until the union ends, will definitely have a street party for that.

Offline Elmo [Almost] Saves Christmas!

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2022, 05:11:25 pm »
I ship goods both to Norway and Britain in my work and believe me, it's no easier or cheaper getting things into Norway than Britain in spite of the proximity. The Norwegian customs is a very complicated process all the time. EEA or not. That's the fault of EU regulations and not the Norwegians.

I ship stuff back and forth from Norway all the time at work. It was always a bit more pai ful than to the EU but it was generally fine. Now shipping anything the EU is a fucking nightmare and Norway is about the same as it was.

Offline LuverlyRita

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2022, 05:32:29 pm »
I still donít think weíve seen all of the fall out of leaving yet and we need to let that take effect before reopening the debate. Covid has hidden a lot of the issues or the can was kicked down the road because of it. But thereís also part of me that thinks whatís the point in waiting? Some of the idiots who voted wonít ever accept it was a mistake so thereís no point in waiting for them to change their minds because they never will and the Remain/Rejoin campaign should start ASAP and hope we can convince enough Leavers of their folly.
I don't think the UK has accepted Brexit - we're just not talking about it much at the moment. That's mainly due to the right wing media and, in particular The BBC, avoiding the subject and to Covid having dominated our lives for the past two years. But the subject will rear its head again because, from the moment Theresa May started drawing her wretched red lines on a "soft" Brexit, any deal was going to crash headlong into the Good Friday Agreement. That has always been the biggest issue with respect to Brexit and, sadly, the one that never really cropped up in the debate.
I don't know what would make the idiots who voted for Brexit admit their mistake but a little bit of suffering always helps e.g. holiday makers heading through the road chaos at Dover or stuck in the non-EU queues at airports. Shining a light on those behind the Brexit campaign might also help them realise that they've been duped. Ironically the war in Ukraine might help now that Putin has become Public Enemy Number 1 and that people are waking up to the way in which libel laws have been used to stifle investigative journalism. The shamefully under-reported court action by Arron Banks against Carole Cadwalladr shows yet again that Putin and his associates were interacting behind the scenes with Brexiteers. A recent interview with the attention-seeking little twerp that is Frottage (which does he continue to be given the oxygen of publicity?) suggests that he is hellbent on toppling the entire EU. Why and to whose benefit? The answer seems obvious.

Offline lobsterboy

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2022, 08:08:40 pm »
I'll never accept and I'll never forgive the thick english c*nts that forced brexit and their c*nt overlord Johnson onto the rest of us.

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2022, 08:36:32 pm »
I don't even blame the thick c*nts. Thick c*nts do what thick c*nts do. The media is squarely to blame and most of them aren't thick.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2022, 10:06:54 pm »
I don't even blame the thick c*nts. Thick c*nts do what thick c*nts do. The media is squarely to blame and most of them aren't thick.
...Just c*nts.

Most of the media have been derelict in their duties to the public. Though, things like how libel laws operate, and how foreign ownership of national media outlets is allowed is, ultimately, the responsibility of all citizens.
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Offline Father Ted

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2022, 10:47:26 pm »
Most of the media wouldnít see their duty as to the public though, theyíre there to make sure the public go along with what their proprietors, and the rich & powerful demand - and help their careers along of course. And if the results are ruinous for the public then so what, just point them towards some convenient scapegoats (dodgy foreigners, minorities, the Ďwokeí, lefties, students, unions, the young in general, the metropolitan liberal elite etc).

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: The UK have acccepted Brexit
« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2022, 11:07:57 pm »
Tell me what you think I mean by the implications as your insinuating I think Labour should lie to voters.

In part of your 1st post in this thread, you said this

Labour will need to go far further than the Torys have to solve all these serious problems. they know that but they don't have to announce those compromises until they are in power.

Wanting Labour to plan to do something if/when they regain power but not tell voters of those intentions beforehand is wanting Labour to be dishonest.

Part of your 2nd post said this

No. am not arguing for Labour to argue we shouldn't re-join the SM or the EU to get elected and then take us back into the SM or the EU once they get a majority. am saying Labour have 2 yrs before they face a election, that should be spent arguing just how well NI is doing and how NI majority is happy with the deal they have now.  Labour have said this already but it needs hammering, I know the implications of what this means and am sure the ERG nutcases do as well but a closer relationship with more compromise needs to happen and that will be the first step back towards the EU.

Regarding the bit in bold, I could give the benefit of the doubt in being willing to accept that there may arguably be a distinction between being dishonest and lying.

I.e. Labour, as is its current policy, explicitly stating it will not seek to rejoin the Single Market only to subsequently seek to rejoin as soon as it's back in power would be a lie. It'd be doing exactly what it said it would not.

On the other hand, Labour not publicly committing to rejoin the Single Market but publicly not ruling it out either, even if privately it has already made the decision to seek to rejoin is dishonest in the sense they're saying 1 thing publicly and another thing privately. However it's not necessarily a lie as the public statements do not contradict the private thinking.

I don't think the type of Brexity, Red Wall type voters Labour are obviously desperate to win back will appreciate such an possible distinction, speaking of which...

Many want Starmer to fight to re-join SM.
It's not that am against re-joining the EU or passionately against PR it's more about giving people a reason not to vote Labour.
We're doing Johnson a huge favour making these election issues.
Labour can't do sod all for over 2 yrs, the last election was massive, we are paying the cost for that disastrous defeat now.

Labour doing anything other than explicitly ruling out SM membership could be argued as giving Leave voters a reason not to support Labour/doing Johnson a favour. However in this thread (as quoted above), and in the main Brexit thread, you've said you want Labour to not rule out SM membership. So which side do you lean more towards? Labour saying/doing what is necessary to remedy the effects of Brexit (which means not ruling out SM membership) or Labour making themselves as theoretically electable as possible (by ruling out SM membership thus giving Johnson one less stick to beat the party with)? Labour can't both publicly rule out seeking SM membership and publicly leave open the possibility. It has to decide to do one or the other but it feels we're back yet again at a point where Labour and its supporters want to have their cake and eat it.