Author Topic: India - deteriorating?  (Read 9485 times)

Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2022, 11:10:13 pm »
It's not "whataboutism" if a bias exists  and has an impact on how they report or don't report the reality of what is happening on the ground

Where is the link to his study? Hopefully it's not going to be anything like that Equality Labs study that published a whole piece and got funding of the back of that only for their methodology revealed to be questionable at best when they finally released it

I’m confused what point your trying to make? That western media plays up the anti-Muslim hate of the BJP and underplays or is itself hostile to Indians or Hindus?
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Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #81 on: July 1, 2022, 03:49:32 am »
It's not "whataboutism" if a bias exists  and has an impact on how they report or don't report the reality of what is happening on the ground
Reality of what's happening on the ground? Let me add you to some hate chat groups if you don't mind. ;) Depending on the platform, some have several hundred members and some have several thousand members.

Offline Max_powers

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #82 on: July 1, 2022, 07:54:56 am »
Religious extremism of all kinds is bad. This is not a hard concept. You can't be angry about one and underplay the other.

There literally used to be an Indian sub reddit with a million plus members where genocide was openly discussed.

Its crazy how much hatred is in India right now. Media, news, politicians etc have nothing else to talk about. They just like to stir the pot. You would think there were no other problems in the country if you watch the news in India. This is what wins them votes, gets them views. Who cares if people die.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #83 on: July 1, 2022, 12:45:37 pm »
When the current PM was to blame for the Gujrati riots where thousands of Muslims were beaten, burnt or raped. Then its no wonder the Country will feel liberated in their archaic views

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #84 on: July 1, 2022, 03:44:14 pm »
There literally used to be an Indian sub reddit with a million plus members where genocide was openly discussed.
The number has to be incorrect. Yet to come across any discussion forum/community with a million members from India.

Offline Sangria

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #85 on: July 1, 2022, 04:53:20 pm »
The number has to be incorrect. Yet to come across any discussion forum/community with a million members from India.

Is there an r/TendulkarFanClub?
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Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #86 on: July 1, 2022, 06:59:55 pm »
Is there an r/TendulkarFanClub?
Even such an online forum won't have million members. India just doesn't have a forum culture. :P

If WhatsApp allows a million members in one group... now we are talking.
« Last Edit: July 1, 2022, 07:02:26 pm by Bullet500 »

Offline Max_powers

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #87 on: July 2, 2022, 12:46:30 am »
The number has to be incorrect. Yet to come across any discussion forum/community with a million members from India.

Actually you are correct. My bad, had two things mixed up. They had about 100k members. Still a lot.

Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #88 on: July 2, 2022, 11:25:21 am »
Is there an r/TendulkarFanClub?

Sachin probably isn’t a good barometer, retired about 10 years ago and keeps a lowish profile, no scandal or celebrity lifestyle. I would imagine someone like Virat Kholi whose still playing, has the celebrity wife etc is probably more popular online then Sachin.
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Offline Dancingtillnirvana

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #89 on: July 2, 2022, 12:25:08 pm »
I’m confused what point your trying to make? That western media plays up the anti-Muslim hate of the BJP and underplays or is itself hostile to Indians or Hindus?

All of the above. Western Media is hostile to India and Hindus. They focus on the negative aspects of India to portray it in a particular light and even within that framework do not report the objective truth or even attempt to do so. Hindu mistakes are amplified where as the problems with Islam swept under the rug unless the story reaches critical mass like the beheading in Udaipur.

Even within this scenario, an attempt is made to re-direct the narrative in a particular direction. For example TIME now has an op-ed piece on how "Hindu Lives Matter" is a "Problematic" slogan : notice the Yankee wording and influence. There is nothing, NOTHING on how we have Muslim school-children who are women walking in Burqas chanting "The price for insulting the Prophet is beheading". It is true that Muslim political organizations have all condemned this killing but one has to ask is this because politically they have been cornered by the on-going consolidation of the Hindu vote? After all, 30 years back these very same organizations were backing special religious laws for Muslims and blasphemy laws for insulting the "prophet"

I remember an interview Swamy gave to VICE, they edited what he said and set the back-ground audio tone to chilling music. Like mate, just  let us listen to what he is saying in it's entirety without the blatant steering and let us make our own decisions.

Its crazy how much hatred is in India right now.

I think this hatred has always existed. Civilizational memory is a thing after all.

Right now, it may be getting amplified cause the pendulum has swung so far the other way and in the age of digital media everything is caught on camera.

Ultimately, history is clear - Islam is the aggressor. The present is also increasingly clear that Islam is incompatible with secularism and "liberalism". 1.5 Million kids getting educated in Madrassas which teach non believers of Allah are Kaffirs. Which nation will tolerate this? Only in India.

The path forward though is increasingly clear, to march towards "modernity" we have to legally eliminate all the problematic parts of Islam including absurdity like the requirement to convert to Islam to marry a Muslim. Once these aspects are codified taking India closer to "Secularism" then the political fault-lines between Hinduism and Islam no longer exist  we can then focus on the systems that are under-delivering as well as intervening in the behavior of the people who are largely untouched by whatever laws we put in place (which is prolly the majority  :butt)

Offline Dancingtillnirvana

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #90 on: July 2, 2022, 12:38:51 pm »
Also looks like BJP has taken Maharashtra now.

Uddhav is no way as savvy as his father. Going in contradiction with the entire brand of Shiv Sena, allying with Congress in exchange for power and being outplayed like this? Heavy blow

Offline Max_powers

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #91 on: July 3, 2022, 07:01:02 am »


Its pointless arguing with you since you are either a paid troll or so set in your worldview that nothing will ever make you change your mind.

However, I would say your average person doesn't give a fuck about civilizational memory. None of what you mention are big issues. Youth unemployment/under employment, that's a big issue, widespread corruption that's a big issue, black money that's a big issue. These are the issues that affect every Indian's life. I really never woke up when I was in India and thought much about rules regarding Muslim marriages. I knew fair few Muslim people in India and vast majority of them were fine upstanding citizens. Yet twats like you talk in such generalities.


Offline Sangria

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #92 on: July 3, 2022, 07:57:21 am »
All of the above. Western Media is hostile to India and Hindus. They focus on the negative aspects of India to portray it in a particular light and even within that framework do not report the objective truth or even attempt to do so. Hindu mistakes are amplified where as the problems with Islam swept under the rug unless the story reaches critical mass like the beheading in Udaipur.

Even within this scenario, an attempt is made to re-direct the narrative in a particular direction. For example TIME now has an op-ed piece on how "Hindu Lives Matter" is a "Problematic" slogan : notice the Yankee wording and influence. There is nothing, NOTHING on how we have Muslim school-children who are women walking in Burqas chanting "The price for insulting the Prophet is beheading". It is true that Muslim political organizations have all condemned this killing but one has to ask is this because politically they have been cornered by the on-going consolidation of the Hindu vote? After all, 30 years back these very same organizations were backing special religious laws for Muslims and blasphemy laws for insulting the "prophet"

I remember an interview Swamy gave to VICE, they edited what he said and set the back-ground audio tone to chilling music. Like mate, just  let us listen to what he is saying in it's entirety without the blatant steering and let us make our own decisions.

I think this hatred has always existed. Civilizational memory is a thing after all.

Right now, it may be getting amplified cause the pendulum has swung so far the other way and in the age of digital media everything is caught on camera.

Ultimately, history is clear - Islam is the aggressor. The present is also increasingly clear that Islam is incompatible with secularism and "liberalism". 1.5 Million kids getting educated in Madrassas which teach non believers of Allah are Kaffirs. Which nation will tolerate this? Only in India.

The path forward though is increasingly clear, to march towards "modernity" we have to legally eliminate all the problematic parts of Islam including absurdity like the requirement to convert to Islam to marry a Muslim. Once these aspects are codified taking India closer to "Secularism" then the political fault-lines between Hinduism and Islam no longer exist  we can then focus on the systems that are under-delivering as well as intervening in the behavior of the people who are largely untouched by whatever laws we put in place (which is prolly the majority  :butt)


If civilisational memory is a thing, when are you submitting yourself to the Greeks again?
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Offline thejbs

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #93 on: July 3, 2022, 08:35:42 am »
Its pointless arguing with you since you are either a paid troll or so set in your worldview that nothing will ever make you change your mind.

However, I would say your average person doesn't give a fuck about civilizational memory. None of what you mention are big issues. Youth unemployment/under employment, that's a big issue, widespread corruption that's a big issue, black money that's a big issue. These are the issues that affect every Indian's life. I really never woke up when I was in India and thought much about rules regarding Muslim marriages. I knew fair few Muslim people in India and vast majority of them were fine upstanding citizens. Yet twats like you talk in such generalities.

Signed up recently. 15 posts and all of them in this one topic.

Offline Garrus

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #94 on: July 3, 2022, 10:00:57 am »
Civilisational memory? Is that like Assassin's Creed?

Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #95 on: July 3, 2022, 10:08:15 am »
Civilisational memory? Is that like Assassin's Creed?

I’m glad I wasn’t the only one wondering what on earth that was supposed to mean.
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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #96 on: July 3, 2022, 12:12:27 pm »
Civilisational memory? Is that like Assassin's Creed?

It's a step up from the Flinstones...
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #97 on: July 3, 2022, 05:22:26 pm »
Typically, the poorest of poor Muslims go to Madarassas in India and quite a few Hindu kids as well. The structural problem is the education system. But because civilizational memory is actually a thing, Hindu RW actually blame the problem of education system on Macaulay. :lmao They really do.

Its pointless arguing with you since you are either a paid troll or so set in your worldview that nothing will ever make you change your mind.

However, I would say your average person doesn't give a fuck about civilizational memory. None of what you mention are big issues. Youth unemployment/under employment, that's a big issue, widespread corruption that's a big issue, black money that's a big issue. These are the issues that affect every Indian's life. I really never woke up when I was in India and thought much about rules regarding Muslim marriages. I knew fair few Muslim people in India and vast majority of them were fine upstanding citizens. Yet twats like you talk in such generalities.
Also, he very well knows how extremist his own kind in India are.

All things considered, India did a better job than its neighbours in protecting its minorities. It was a fairly reasonable thing to say and claim back in 2014. Now, it isn't.

Offline west_london_red

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Offline Max_powers

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #99 on: July 4, 2022, 01:17:22 am »
Signed up recently. 15 posts and all of them in this one topic.

He has been here before many times and banned many times. Doesn't follow LFC. Only posts to defend actions of autocratic regimes. Usually the trigger to summon him is to say something against Modi or Chinese government and bam a new account is created and he leaps into defense of these fine folks.

He likes to rail against the what he calls western liberals and lefties because that is the in vouge thing to do among India's right wing circles without having understanding of the history of LFC or Liverpool.



« Last Edit: July 4, 2022, 01:19:32 am by Max_powers »

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #100 on: July 4, 2022, 06:47:51 am »
Criticism of things like the video filter here is perfectly reasonable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8dFsK_RAi0 But these are never the talking points of Indian RW. It's always about the minorities.

Offline Andar

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #101 on: July 15, 2022, 09:39:07 pm »
What are the chances of there ever being a Muslim prime minister in India?

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #102 on: July 15, 2022, 09:39:55 pm »
What are the chances of there ever being a Muslim prime minister in India?

Next to nil, don't think BJP will ever lose the majority
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 09:42:11 pm by Machae »

Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #103 on: July 16, 2022, 11:18:48 pm »
What are the chances of there ever being a Muslim prime minister in India?

Zero. The BJP will be in power for the foreseeable, they are still very popular and have the media and judiciary on their side and in their pocket. But also I wouldn’t be naïve, anti-Muslim sentiment didn’t start with the BJP it’s been there for a very long time and won’t suddenly just disappear even if the BJP did.
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Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #104 on: July 18, 2022, 02:38:08 am »
What are the chances of there ever being a Muslim prime minister in India?
Before the democracy took an illiberal turn, I wouldn't have ruled it out. But right now? It seems unlikely. I think now we are farther away from a Muslim prime minister than we were in 1947.

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #105 on: August 10, 2022, 01:44:47 pm »
The rise of hate speech in India - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9ovHqv_k-g

Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #106 on: August 14, 2022, 09:28:34 pm »
Really good 2 part documentary on Partition on C4, even for someone whose pretty read up on what went on and heard plenty of first hand stories from my grandparents, quite eye opening how non-fussed the British were about the actual process as everyone was busy killing each other. And had no idea Nehru was screwing Lord Mountbatten‘s wife!
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Offline ScouserAtHeart

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #107 on: August 15, 2022, 09:24:51 am »
Don't think that's ever been confirmed? Was long rumoured though
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #108 on: August 15, 2022, 09:33:52 am »
Don't think that's ever been confirmed? Was long rumoured though

Well according to the documentary they used to meet up when Lord Mountbatten was away from Delhi, that’s not usually a good sign, and it was the reason why Jinnah refused to allow Mountbatten to be the Queens representative (I forget the proper name) in Pakistan, because ultimately his Mrs was sleeping with the enemy.

I should add that the documentary was about more then just this one small aspect of Partition.
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Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #109 on: August 17, 2022, 05:14:23 pm »
And had no idea Nehru was screwing Lord Mountbatten‘s wife!
The entire India thinks so these days as BJP/RSS definitely likes to peddle this.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #110 on: August 17, 2022, 06:43:37 pm »
The entire India thinks so these days as BJP/RSS definitely likes to peddle this.

Because they haven’t got over partition yet?
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Offline Centurion99

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #111 on: August 17, 2022, 07:11:25 pm »
Who says the Indian’s haven’t got over partition?  Partition was inevitable, and 75-years on, absolutely accepted as permanent.  If India had remained ‘United’ then that entity today would be less democratic, less free, and more over-populated than the India that exists today.  The hypothetical ‘United’ India would have been even more susceptible to Islamic radicalism emanating from the Deobandi outfits, mainly in what is today Uttar Pradesh.  ‘United’ India was seen as a sub-continent, never as ‘one nation’ and as such many in India are wholeheartedly over the trauma of partition, glad to be liberated of the burden of Pakistan, and free to pursue progress in what makes the world wonderful (love, art, music, sport, and culture) that India has achieved in 75-years of independence, which took the USA circa 200-years after independence from the British.

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #112 on: August 17, 2022, 08:29:37 pm »
Because they haven’t got over partition yet?
More to do with assassinating Nehru's character and India's old political values than the partition.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #113 on: August 17, 2022, 08:35:13 pm »
Who says the Indian’s haven’t got over partition?  Partition was inevitable, and 75-years on, absolutely accepted as permanent.  If India had remained ‘United’ then that entity today would be less democratic, less free, and more over-populated than the India that exists today.  The hypothetical ‘United’ India would have been even more susceptible to Islamic radicalism emanating from the Deobandi outfits, mainly in what is today Uttar Pradesh.  ‘United’ India was seen as a sub-continent, never as ‘one nation’ and as such many in India are wholeheartedly over the trauma of partition, glad to be liberated of the burden of Pakistan, and free to pursue progress in what makes the world wonderful (love, art, music, sport, and culture) that India has achieved in 75-years of independence, which took the USA circa 200-years after independence from the British.
If you are glad, thank Nehru then as your overlords choose to blame him instead. ;)

Offline Centurion99

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #114 on: August 17, 2022, 09:14:51 pm »
The point relates not to Nehru nor to my so called ‘overlords’ to whom both I am ambivalent.  It relates to the stages of grief experienced as a relatively new Republic (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance) and ultimately ‘accepting the unacceptable’.  An earlier poster stated India ‘haven’t got over partition’ and I simply observed that as a nation India, over the past 75-years, has processed the change and protected itself whilst adapting to a new reality following the trauma of a truly horrific, barbarically violent partition. 

If you are looking retrospectively back at Nehru rather than looking forward ‘glass half full’ to a brilliant future, then you are combining the historical  experiences of stress and trauma to grief, it could be systemically overwhelming.  It takes a toll on one’s mental and physical health, consistently being impacted by the nervous system stress response in seeking to ’blame’ rather than accept the past and stride on positively towards the future.

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #115 on: August 17, 2022, 09:29:06 pm »
The point relates not to Nehru nor to my so called ‘overlords’ to whom both I am ambivalent.  It relates to the stages of grief experienced as a relatively new Republic (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance) and ultimately ‘accepting the unacceptable’.  An earlier poster stated India ‘haven’t got over partition’ and I simply observed that as a nation India, over the past 75-years, has processed the change and protected itself whilst adapting to a new reality following the trauma of a truly horrific, barbarically violent partition. 

If you are looking retrospectively back at Nehru rather than looking forward ‘glass half full’ to a brilliant future, then you are combining the historical  experiences of stress and trauma to grief, it could be systemically overwhelming.  It takes a toll on one’s mental and physical health, consistently being impacted by the nervous system stress response in seeking to ’blame’ rather than accept the past and stride on positively towards the future.

People surely have. After all, the partition largely affected only the northern part of subcontinent and India is a vast country. Having said that, has the political discourse/propaganda by the ruling party gotten over the partition? Nope, and I am looking at the present.

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #116 on: August 17, 2022, 09:33:43 pm »
also, an anecdotal twitter thread relevant to the topic: https://twitter.com/dhume/status/1542205360475447299

Offline Centurion99

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #117 on: August 17, 2022, 10:00:44 pm »
People surely have. After all, the partition largely affected only the northern part of subcontinent and India is a vast country. Having said that, has the political discourse/propaganda by the ruling party gotten over the partition? Nope, and I am looking at the present.

Delighted you are ‘living in the moment’ accepting life’s new configuration with a feeling of possibility in the future.  Not consumed by the historical legacy of Jinnah, Nehru and Mountbatten or by anger directed towards the democratically elected government or grief at the treatment of minorities or regret at the political discourse or shock at the erosion in India's old political values.

It is this constant outrage that is hijacking the rich, ancient, civilised culture of India and polluting minds in the present.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #118 on: August 17, 2022, 10:29:10 pm »
Who says the Indian’s haven’t got over partition?  Partition was inevitable, and 75-years on, absolutely accepted as permanent.  If India had remained ‘United’ then that entity today would be less democratic, less free, and more over-populated than the India that exists today.  The hypothetical ‘United’ India would have been even more susceptible to Islamic radicalism emanating from the Deobandi outfits, mainly in what is today Uttar Pradesh.  ‘United’ India was seen as a sub-continent, never as ‘one nation’ and as such many in India are wholeheartedly over the trauma of partition, glad to be liberated of the burden of Pakistan, and free to pursue progress in what makes the world wonderful (love, art, music, sport, and culture) that India has achieved in 75-years of independence, which took the USA circa 200-years after independence from the British.

I was referring to the BJP/RSS rather then India as a whole, they are not the same thing, and I have met a fair few BJP supporters who lament partition and the loss of territory (although whether they would want 300 million additional Muslims in their greater India I suspect they wouldn’t).

It was an RSS member who killed Gandhi because of partition wasn’t it?
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Offline Max_powers

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #119 on: August 18, 2022, 01:23:21 am »
Delighted you are ‘living in the moment’ accepting life’s new configuration with a feeling of possibility in the future.  Not consumed by the historical legacy of Jinnah, Nehru and Mountbatten or by anger directed towards the democratically elected government or grief at the treatment of minorities or regret at the political discourse or shock at the erosion in India's old political values.

It is this constant outrage that is hijacking the rich, ancient, civilized culture of India and polluting minds in the present.

What culture are we talking about here? There ain't fucker I have seen in my life that is following some ancient Indian culture. There are those who pretend to follow some ancient culture and there are those who don't.

History is great but let's not idealize history. India is one of many countries in the world and its culture is not better or worse than others. The culture has been changing forever and will keep changing forever.  Heck, there is no such thing even as "Indian Culture" as it's an incredibly diverse country with many cultures that are extremely different from each other.

As Punjabi for example, I share more culturally with Punjabis in Pakistan than say someone from South India. Same language, same food, many great thinkers, poets, and singers in the Punjabi language lived or were born across the border.