Author Topic: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)  (Read 131582 times)

Offline Linudden

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2360 on: June 29, 2022, 02:09:07 pm »
So your answer to racism is to ignore it, and say that there are no races so therefore can be no racism.

You deal with racists in private and don't cause a shit storm which is only likely to breed more resentment. There can be downsides on a grand scheme of things such as people being more tribal about their immediate ethnic group instead, but from avoiding skin tone racism it's what has worked very well in Northern Europe. Just doing de-escalation.

The best way to combat racism is to show unity (linking arms is a much better way than kneeling because the unified group chain gives an impression of we're all one) and try and build up Africa to decent living standards. When did the English football clubs invest millions of pounds in the water infrastructure in the Saharan interior? Oh wait they didn't. That's the hypocrisy. They could literally save millions of black lives by giving up a bit of money but choose not to.

I think that's pretty terrible because I genuinely believe that all black lives do matter and that each starving kid in the Sahara is one too many.
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2361 on: June 29, 2022, 02:09:37 pm »
I don't know enough about the specifics of Brazilian Portuguese to judge what was actually said or the meanings behind it, be they intentional or not. And I do think that is dodgy to try and moralise about one language in another.

Having said that, piquet has form for being an arsehole and it's been good to see quite a few making clear their objections in general to racism.

Offline Linudden

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2362 on: June 29, 2022, 02:15:09 pm »
I don't know enough about the specifics of Brazilian Portuguese to judge what was actually said or the meanings behind it, be they intentional or not. And I do think that is dodgy to try and moralise about one language in another.

Having said that, piquet has form for being an arsehole and it's been good to see quite a few making clear their objections in general to racism.

The biggest takeaway is that regardless of what that word means, just calling someone 'the little black one' is not very pleasant either way. That kind of language is what we must get rid of. It's all depending on context. If a white person says the n-word ending with an a as a mistaken compliment or in a rap lyric it's a completely different thing to racially abusing someone with that same word. The problem is twofold:

a) people who make genuine misjudgements and mistakes are lumped in with actual bigots.
b) Piquet used that word in a context of racial abuse and claims he didn't because the word could be used for something different.

It's not that hard to find clean replacement words in rap lyrics if you need to. Depending on lyric content insert 'busta/fool/fam/homie/youngsta/loc/clown/people/folks/brotha/patna' here and be done with it. There's absolutely no need to say the n-word on a stream but I can't help other people think properly. Idiots gonna idiot  :butt

That's the biggest difference between Kyle Larson/Juri Vips doing dumb jokes on social media streams and Nelson Piquet actually racially abusing someone is that these incidents are seen as identical because they aren't. Piquet did way worse and he should at the very least be banned from the paddock for the rest of the season. He's not working for a team so there's no need in him being there anyway. For a team member, I'd said a hefty fine and a public apology is the remedy of choice.

Had he used that word about Hamilton as a compliment it'd been cringy but a lot less bad, it goes without saying. That being said, there's no way you can construe what he said in the specific circumstance as anything other than a dreadful racist insult. That's when he crossed all red lines either way you slice it.

For Red Bull, ditching Vips as the fall guy was a lot easier because he provided zero net value to the team. That being said, I don't like those precedents because if people genuinely fuck up by saying something silly without intending to insult a specific person or group they deserve a second chance. Context used to mean a lot more than it does now and that bothers me.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 03:39:30 pm by Linudden »
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Offline paulrazor

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2363 on: June 29, 2022, 03:13:40 pm »
Told you that excuse was coming from Piquet

At least he apologized
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline Persephone

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2364 on: June 29, 2022, 03:58:58 pm »
That entire " apology" is complete BS. He didn't even apologize properly, it's more of the same PR nonsense I've come to expect from racists. Sorry if YOU feel like I'm racist, but I'm not type rubbish.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2365 on: June 29, 2022, 04:55:42 pm »
"What I said was ill thought out, and I make no defence for it, but I will clarify that the term used is one that has widely and historically been used colloquially in Brazilian Portuguese as a synonym for 'guy' or 'person' and was never intended to offend.
If it's a widely and historically used term then I'm sure there's plenty of evidence of him using it when talking about white people.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 09:47:58 pm by Funky_Gibbons »
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Offline mobydick

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2366 on: June 29, 2022, 05:22:17 pm »
From the Beeb,

"The sport has rallied for Hamilton since Piquet's remarks, which were condemned by F1, governing body the FIA and Hamilton's Mercedes team, while rivals Ferrari and McLaren also offered their support.

Red Bull, whose driver Max Verstappen is the partner of Piquet's daughter Kelly, have not commented."

Strange that, don'tcha think?


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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2367 on: June 29, 2022, 05:30:18 pm »
Red Bull, whose driver Max Verstappen is the partner of Piquet's daughter Kelly, have not commented."

Strange that, don'tcha think?

Still inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt until the 'media day' tomorrow.

Offline Persephone

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2368 on: June 29, 2022, 05:31:24 pm »
The biggest takeaway is that regardless of what that word means, just calling someone 'the little black one' is not very pleasant either way. That kind of language is what we must get rid of. It's all depending on context. If a white person says the n-word ending with an a as a mistaken compliment or in a rap lyric it's a completely different thing to racially abusing someone with that same word. The problem is twofold:

a) people who make genuine misjudgements and mistakes are lumped in with actual bigots.
b) Piquet used that word in a context of racial abuse and claims he didn't because the word could be used for something different.

It's not that hard to find clean replacement words in rap lyrics if you need to. Depending on lyric content insert 'busta/fool/fam/homie/youngsta/loc/clown/people/folks/brotha/patna' here and be done with it. There's absolutely no need to say the n-word on a stream but I can't help other people think properly. Idiots gonna idiot  :butt

That's the biggest difference between Kyle Larson/Juri Vips doing dumb jokes on social media streams and Nelson Piquet actually racially abusing someone is that these incidents are seen as identical because they aren't. Piquet did way worse and he should at the very least be banned from the paddock for the rest of the season. He's not working for a team so there's no need in him being there anyway. For a team member, I'd said a hefty fine and a public apology is the remedy of choice.

Had he used that word about Hamilton as a compliment it'd been cringy but a lot less bad, it goes without saying. That being said, there's no way you can construe what he said in the specific circumstance as anything other than a dreadful racist insult. That's when he crossed all red lines either way you slice it.

For Red Bull, ditching Vips as the fall guy was a lot easier because he provided zero net value to the team. That being said, I don't like those precedents because if people genuinely fuck up by saying something silly without intending to insult a specific person or group they deserve a second chance. Context used to mean a lot more than it does now and that bothers me.
Linudden are you a black man? If not it is not your place to decide what is considered appropriate or not regarding that word. The offence caused to black community whether the word is said in jest or with intention to degrade is not for you to decide, you dont have hundreds of years of oppression and genocide to deal with. That is just a word to you, it's not to people of the black community. So please stop trying to justify its use, there is none.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2369 on: June 29, 2022, 07:41:32 pm »
I'm not in a hole. It's just my solution to combat racism: don't give racists attention and de-racialize the language. So long as media in Britain and America talk about 'races' when there's one humanity there's bound to be more problems than solutions coming out of such discourse.

Edit: Don't want to get banned so I'll amend this. You're bad meff or whatever the UK slang is.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 07:43:49 pm by Dave McCoy »

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2370 on: June 30, 2022, 09:42:25 am »
Bernie going lower than ever before. He’d take a bullet for Putin and Hamilton should just brush off racism…


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Offline jackh

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2371 on: June 30, 2022, 09:50:46 am »
Bernie going lower than ever before. He’d take a bullet for Putin and Hamilton should just brush off racism…

Yep, no comment necessary really. Prick. GMB shouldn't be enabling him by providing the platform.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2372 on: June 30, 2022, 10:03:12 am »
We could have a three way battle this weekend. The smoother nature of Silverstone will suit Mercedes more. Ferrari are good in the high speed corners and then Red Bull with that top speed they have might all come together for a closer battle. Don't expect Mercedes to win but do think they could be closer here than recent races. Could also be some rain about for Saturday.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2373 on: June 30, 2022, 10:03:14 am »
What the fuck is that pernicious little grimbot doing still surfacing?  Get back in your hole, you queef.
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2374 on: June 30, 2022, 10:07:33 am »
Piquet the other day

Bernie today

I fully expect a huge report on Hamilton's jewellery to appear any minute now by F1 and the FIA. 
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Offline Wild Romany Boy

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2375 on: June 30, 2022, 10:10:18 am »
The amount of shit Hamilton gets is insane. Do you know what, it has become worse as he's gotten more and more active in tackling injustice.


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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2376 on: June 30, 2022, 10:19:07 am »
The amount of shit Hamilton gets is insane. Do you know what, it has become worse as he's gotten more and more active in tackling injustice.

And the success he's had. It's a combination of racism and jealousy I feel. And my views are if it was say Alonso or Max leading the way for the title in Abu Dhabi then Masi doesn't make the decision he did. Of course others will have their views, that's fine, but that's mine. The sport needs a lot of work.
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2377 on: June 30, 2022, 10:37:20 am »
Bernie said he would take a bullet for Putin, hopefully he does
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline Wild Romany Boy

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2378 on: June 30, 2022, 11:08:16 am »
And the success he's had. It's a combination of racism and jealousy I feel. And my views are if it was say Alonso or Max leading the way for the title in Abu Dhabi then Masi doesn't make the decision he did. Of course others will have their views, that's fine, but that's mine. The sport needs a lot of work.

I agree. Though I'd like to think it's because of Hamilton's success rather than anything more untoward.

But I'm very, very white.

Whatever the reasoning, it remains an annoying decision.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2379 on: June 30, 2022, 11:32:39 am »
Piquet the other day

Bernie today

I fully expect a huge report on Hamilton's jewellery to appear any minute now by F1 and the FIA.
Vips the other day too, but don't worry, if you ignore it it wil lall go away apparantly  ::)

Can't help but feel F1 is still in the dark ages in some respects and the last few weeks have made it look bad. It's not a great look either that more teams and drivers haven't spoken out about Pique.
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2380 on: June 30, 2022, 11:39:19 am »
bernie ecclestone is no longer part of f1. so pinning anything he says on f1 these days is just wrong.

he's a very old man with some very old views and it seems like the only reason any tv show would have him on these days is because they know he'll come out with some absolute shite that will "drive conversation". which is all that seems to matter now.

fuck bernie ecclestone and fuck the tv show for having him on in the first place.

Offline Linudden

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2381 on: June 30, 2022, 12:10:51 pm »
Bernie must be getting senile slowly but surely at this stage. His statements get worse by the year.
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2382 on: June 30, 2022, 12:11:49 pm »
Bernie must be getting senile at this stage. His statements get worse by the year.
What’s your excuse then?  ;) :P

Offline Linudden

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2383 on: June 30, 2022, 12:21:28 pm »
What’s your excuse then?  ;) :P

I'm a lad of infinite wisdom so nothing wrong with me mate ;D
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2385 on: June 30, 2022, 12:24:03 pm »
Bernie must be getting senile slowly but surely at this stage. His statements get worse by the year.

The Putin bit aside, he said the same as you :D

bernie ecclestone is no longer part of f1. so pinning anything he says on f1 these days is just wrong.

he's a very old man with some very old views and it seems like the only reason any tv show would have him on these days is because they know he'll come out with some absolute shite that will "drive conversation". which is all that seems to matter now.

fuck bernie ecclestone and fuck the tv show for having him on in the first place.

No true but it’s pretty rare to have a figurehead, as he was for so long, with such a shit personality and horrible opinions and for that to not at least seep through the others involved.
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Offline Linudden

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2386 on: June 30, 2022, 12:28:26 pm »
The Putin bit aside, he said the same as you :D

No he didn't. I wasn't talking about Lewis who has every right to be very angry, I was talking about the media always angling to make twats first-page news and then profit from it.
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2387 on: June 30, 2022, 12:29:18 pm »
Ecclestone's wife is also vice-resident of the FIA and he's often seen at the races so it's hard to distance him from F1.
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2388 on: June 30, 2022, 12:47:16 pm »
Ecclestone's wife is also vice-resident of the FIA and he's often seen at the races so it's hard to distance him from F1.

I think she's A vice president. one of many, if that makes any difference.

and I'm not sure he is at many races these days. I reckon he's been to no more than about 3 or 4 since he sold up and maybe 1 since his weird 'title' he got given seemed to run out after a year or whatever it was.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2389 on: June 30, 2022, 09:36:40 pm »
Oh….

Quote
Max Verstappen has defended Nelson Piquet over the former world champion’s use of a racial slur against Lewis Hamilton. Verstappen, the world champion, admitted Piquet’s words were not correct but insisted the 69-year-old Brazilian is not a racist. Hamilton, meanwhile, has demanded Formula One and its teams take action against racism and to promote diversity, saying older voices are holding the sport back.

Piquet is the father of Verstappen’s partner, Kelly, and has been roundly condemned for his use of a racist epithet earlier this week. He has since apologised and insisted the phrase he used was mistranslated, but speaking before this weekend’s British Grand Prix, Verstappen conceded Piquet was at fault.

“The wording that was used was not correct,” he said. “Let it be a lesson for the future not to use that word.” The Dutchman added: “I’ve spent a lot of time with Nelson. More than the average person in general and he’s definitely not a racist.”
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Offline Persephone

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2390 on: June 30, 2022, 09:37:27 pm »
https://the-race.com/formula-1/verstappen-piquet-ban-sought-by-f1-not-helping-situation/

He's not a racist, he has black friends energy from Verstappen. Should have just shut his mouth if this was the nonsense he was going to come out with.

*Edit * Funky got there ahead of me

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2391 on: June 30, 2022, 09:41:29 pm »
If this (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/61999788) article has all the quotes faithfully reproduced how fucking mendacious is the headline?
shut up clown. Naby Keita can buy your life and throw it away.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2392 on: June 30, 2022, 09:45:19 pm »
If this (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/61999788) article has all the quotes faithfully reproduced how fucking mendacious is the headline?
Most articles these days have click baity rage titles, it's the way they draw in the readers. It's atrocious, but not unexpected at this point.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2393 on: June 30, 2022, 09:46:40 pm »
If this (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/61999788) article has all the quotes faithfully reproduced how fucking mendacious is the headline?
What a word that is!!! 😄
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 09:50:26 pm by Funky_Gibbons »
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2394 on: June 30, 2022, 09:58:46 pm »
Not sure what else anyone expected verstappen to say really.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2395 on: June 30, 2022, 10:31:37 pm »
I agree. Though I'd like to think it's because of Hamilton's success rather than anything more untoward.

But I'm very, very white.

Whatever the reasoning, it remains an annoying decision.
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2396 on: June 30, 2022, 10:36:14 pm »
Max being a trash person is about the least surprising thing out of this whole episode.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2397 on: July 1, 2022, 02:59:56 am »
I don't think I have ever disliked an F1 driver as much as I dislike Verstappen. There have definitely been some interesting characters in the past years but this c*nt I just can't stand..

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2398 on: July 1, 2022, 06:58:10 am »
Not sure what else anyone expected verstappen to say really.
Really? Maybe don't defend the indefensible. He made a fairly PR friendly statement earlier yesterday and then shot himself in the foot with that rubbish. RBR and Verstappen are absolutely covering themselves in glory this week.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2399 on: July 1, 2022, 07:06:02 am »
Really? Maybe don't defend the indefensible. He made a fairly PR friendly statement earlier yesterday and then shot himself in the foot with that rubbish. RBR and Verstappen are absolutely covering themselves in glory this week.

you misunderstand. I'm not on about what anyone wanted him to say, or what he should have said.

I expected him to attempt to cack-handedly "defend" his potentially future father in law, which is what he's done.