Author Topic: Welcome Diogo Jota  (Read 364426 times)

Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3760 on: August 3, 2022, 04:15:19 pm »
I think the point is that there's a certain level of player fame, the most famous and recogniseable names in football at a given time, the big superstars, which Liverpool have never traditionally brought in. But we have developed many players up to that level.

It's not really about what the purists think or what statistics show, it's about generally perceived profile and star quality.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3761 on: August 3, 2022, 04:24:14 pm »
I think the point is that there's a certain level of player fame, the most famous and recogniseable names in football at a given time, the big superstars, which Liverpool have never traditionally brought in. But we have developed many players up to that level.

It's not really about what the purists think or what statistics show, it's about generally perceived profile and star quality.

That was exactly the point Jookie was trying to make. It's why I said I can't remember the last time we did it and brought up VVD as Ali as players who are now World Class but were not big name stars when we bought them. Mo wasn't, Sadio wasn't, Suarez wasn't. Torres was talked about a lot, but wasn't a star, but a kid with massive potential. Barnesey was probably the most well know when we signed him, due to his goal v Brazil. No idea how well regarded Kenny was, but I do remember legging home from the shops with my Dads Daily Mirror and running in yelling we'd signed Dalglish, so he must have been pretty well known for a 10 yr old to go mad about him signing.

We don't buy superstars, we make them ;D
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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3762 on: August 3, 2022, 04:47:27 pm »
Yeah Allison a little more, since he was playing in the latter stages of the CL for Roma. But there's no way VVD was 'considered one of the best CBs in the world' at Southampton.

He was.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3763 on: August 3, 2022, 04:50:14 pm »
Not many people seemed to think so, at least at that time, and there was general bemusement when we paid all that money for him. Heck, he wasn’t even in the premier league team of the season.

Back to the topic. Jota himself [modestly] seems to think he’s not that much better, at least last year he didn’t think he was, but he was in a team full of superior players.

Who are these people you speak off? The bellend pundits like Garth Crooks? He was in the Goal of the yea team before he came here, and was worth £75 m having chased by both of the best teams in the league anyone with a functioning brain(including myself) would look at his qualities and instantly recognise him being one of the better cbs in Europe.

He was already the most dominant in the air statistically or at leas one of the top 3 in Aerial duels won at least one of his seasons at Southampton(of my memory doesn’t fail me) could pass was incredibly quick and strong as well, there’s a reason he cost 75 m as opposed to for example the 35m Mane cost.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3764 on: August 3, 2022, 04:52:20 pm »
I think the point is that there's a certain level of player fame, the most famous and recogniseable names in football at a given time, the big superstars, which Liverpool have never traditionally brought in. But we have developed many players up to that level.

It's not really about what the purists think or what statistics show, it's about generally perceived profile and star quality.

I would say it’s more about stats and purists say in this day and age where we have more information available, what Danny Murphy thinks matters less for example.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3765 on: August 3, 2022, 05:08:14 pm »
I feel like he is underrated and that’s just from Liverpool fans.

Offline markmywords

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3766 on: August 3, 2022, 05:16:40 pm »
Who are these people you speak off? The bellend pundits like Garth Crooks? He was in the Goal of the yea team before he came here, and was worth £75 m having chased by both of the best teams in the league anyone with a functioning brain(including myself) would look at his qualities and instantly recognise him being one of the better cbs in Europe.

He was already the most dominant in the air statistically or at leas one of the top 3 in Aerial duels won at least one of his seasons at Southampton(of my memory doesn’t fail me) could pass was incredibly quick and strong as well, there’s a reason he cost 75 m as opposed to for example the 35m Mane cost.

How do you access the 'goal team of the year" from previous seasons, it doesn't appear to be archived?

Sure VVD cost a lot of money, but so did maquire, as I said VVD wasn't in the guardian top 100 players in dec 2017, his talents weren't broadly accepted to the level of a star player IMO

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3767 on: August 3, 2022, 05:42:01 pm »
He was.

You’re the guy who thought Toby Alderweireld was the best CB in the league around then though, yes?
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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3768 on: August 3, 2022, 07:17:44 pm »
You’re the guy who thought Toby Alderweireld was the best CB in the league around then though, yes?

Possibly Toby was great, sure as hell rated VVD highly also.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3769 on: August 3, 2022, 11:46:47 pm »
You’re the guy who thought Toby Alderweireld was the best CB in the league around then though, yes?
Toby was a top CB to be fair.

Offline rob1966

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3770 on: August 4, 2022, 09:28:16 am »
Possibly Toby was great, sure as hell rated VVD highly also.

Was VVD a superstar name at the time though? , that was the point Jookie was making. Salah wasn't a superstar, Sadio wasn't, Alisson wasn't, Suarez wasn't, all brilliant players, but not one was in the superstar bracket that they ended up in.
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Offline red1977

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3771 on: August 4, 2022, 09:37:16 am »
I feel like he is underrated and that’s just from Liverpool fans.

Im not sure on that. I think he has taken many by surprise with how clinical he has been in front of goal. At Wolves he seemed to be a pacey foil for Jiminez, Little did we know he could be a lethal number nine himself. I didnt think we were getting the player that he has proved to be. So at least from my perspective he is very much a surprise and its watch this space with Diogo, who knows what level he can get to. I guess he will switch from being played in the 9 and wide left, no one is sure yet where he will prove to be best. In a way it's hard to cement him in as this kind of player or that at the moment. so no one is nailing him down as this kind of player or that. I do think most reds will not complain if he starts as nine or wide forward against any opponent. you know he will be in the goals.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3772 on: August 4, 2022, 09:42:30 am »
Toby was a top CB to be fair.

I'm not sure where this 'debate' even started :D

One of the best CBs in the world though? When Thiago Silva, Chiellini, Bonucci, Ramos, Pique, Varane, Hummels, Boateng, Godin etc were all about and still at the top of their game? Its just such a daft argument, you can't be one of the best in the world in your position when you're playing at a mid-table PL club and never playing in Europe. And I think the original point was that we don't buy superstars, which Virg clearly wasn't.
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Offline jepovic

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3773 on: August 4, 2022, 10:23:54 am »
Im not sure on that. I think he has taken many by surprise with how clinical he has been in front of goal. At Wolves he seemed to be a pacey foil for Jiminez, Little did we know he could be a lethal number nine himself. I didnt think we were getting the player that he has proved to be. So at least from my perspective he is very much a surprise and its watch this space with Diogo, who knows what level he can get to. I guess he will switch from being played in the 9 and wide left, no one is sure yet where he will prove to be best. In a way it's hard to cement him in as this kind of player or that at the moment. so no one is nailing him down as this kind of player or that. I do think most reds will not complain if he starts as nine or wide forward against any opponent. you know he will be in the goals.
Yeah, I thought we'd gotten someone like Diaz or Mane, but we got someone more like Fowler. Incredibly cool and skilled in the box.
Gini was also like that,  great player but not in the way we expected.
I have no problem with that, but I wonder what Klopp expected.

Offline SamLad

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3774 on: August 4, 2022, 01:19:57 pm »
Was VVD a superstar name at the time though? , that was the point Jookie was making. Salah wasn't a superstar, Sadio wasn't, Alisson wasn't, Suarez wasn't, all brilliant players, but not one was in the superstar bracket that they ended up in.
add Torres to that list and they are all players who became recognized as -- at minimum -- in the top 3 in the world in their position while with LFC.

Offline Hedley Lamarr

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3775 on: August 4, 2022, 02:36:40 pm »
I honestly think the only 'superstar' we've signed for some considerable time is Thiago, I thought Morientes was a superstar when we signed him, but I may have been on my own there.

As for Jota, I always thought he was a decent player, that's about it, I thought £40m was overpriced.  I'm an idiot.

Offline Jookie

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3776 on: August 4, 2022, 02:39:32 pm »
that was the point Jookie was making.

Apologies for unwittingly derailing the thread on semantics about whether player X or Y was World Class or a World Star when we bought them.

The main thrust was that Liverpool don't buy stars, we make them.
I think Jookie might just be the best fisherman on this thread.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3777 on: August 10, 2022, 10:57:46 pm »
Apologies for unwittingly derailing the thread on semantics about whether player X or Y was World Class or a World Star when we bought them.

The main thrust was that Liverpool don't buy stars, we make them.
And to be fair. We had a period of around thirty years where we weren't good enough to attract the mega stars.
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Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3778 on: August 10, 2022, 11:09:19 pm »
And to be fair. We had a period of around thirty years where we weren't good enough to attract the mega stars.

Excuse me! I had it on good authority that Zinedine Zidane bought a house on Merseyside, ready to join us but we turned him away... or something!
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Offline Linudden

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3779 on: August 10, 2022, 11:20:03 pm »
I honestly think the only 'superstar' we've signed for some considerable time is Thiago, I thought Morientes was a superstar when we signed him, but I may have been on my own there.

As for Jota, I always thought he was a decent player, that's about it, I thought £40m was overpriced.  I'm an idiot.

In my opinion, Torres was a superstar signing in many ways, even though he hadn't performed to potential the season before for Atlético.

Then again, I knew Alonso, Suárez and Salah were the real deals when being signed but the wider public didn't. Those three signings had the it-factor from day one.
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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3780 on: August 12, 2022, 03:45:51 am »
In my opinion, Torres was a superstar signing in many ways, even though he hadn't performed to potential the season before for Atlético.

Then again, I knew Alonso, Suárez and Salah were the real deals when being signed but the wider public didn't. Those three signings had the it-factor from day one.
This is facts along with maybe Mascherano could tell from 5mins in a West Ham shirt he was the best on earth. Some would even say the Stan Collymoore,Diouf,Cisse,Kewell were regarded almost world class and all flopped. Basically the club make stars and don’t sign ready made stars.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3781 on: August 12, 2022, 07:24:22 am »
This is facts along with maybe Mascherano could tell from 5mins in a West Ham shirt he was the best on earth. Some would even say the Stan Collymoore,Diouf,Cisse,Kewell were regarded almost world class and all flopped. Basically the club make stars and don’t sign ready made stars.

People used to rate Aly Cissokho as the one of the best young LB in the world once upon a time. Lets just say that player's career can take a variety of trajectories. Not every great player is going to light it up as a teenager. Conversely not every 17 year old playing in a top 5 league is going to become a superstar.

All players have their own trajectory.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3782 on: August 15, 2022, 11:35:59 pm »
We missed Diogo a lot this evening, and against Fulham.

When's he expected to be back?
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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3783 on: August 15, 2022, 11:46:21 pm »
Save us Diogo Jose Teixiera da Silva, you're our only hope.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3784 on: August 16, 2022, 12:36:28 am »
Come back
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Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3785 on: August 16, 2022, 06:26:52 am »
His injury has been a bit of a nightmare, hasn't it?

I'm sure Klopp planned on integrating Nunez gradually, and having him on the bench for the first month or two, behind Jota. He got injured at the start of pre-season, so it will be ages until we see him back up to speed.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3786 on: August 16, 2022, 06:29:46 am »
His injury has been a bit of a nightmare, hasn't it?

I'm sure Klopp planned on integrating Nunez gradually, and having him on the bench for the first month or two, behind Jota. He got injured at the start of pre-season, so it will be ages until we see him back up to speed.

It has been a nightmare. Not only is Jota an amazing footballer (who somehow seems to be underrated) but also it has heaped huge pressure on Nunez who doesnt look ready. Need him back quick but i believe it will still be a while?

Offline tunred

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3787 on: August 22, 2022, 11:08:45 pm »
Would've really heleped tonight against their short cb. Desperetly need him back now

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3788 on: August 30, 2022, 05:01:43 pm »
It's great news that he will be back in training later this week. Looking forward to see how klopp navigates nunez and jota.


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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3789 on: August 30, 2022, 05:28:44 pm »
It's great news that he will be back in training later this week. Looking forward to see how klopp navigates nunez and jota.



I can see him possibly starting with Bobby, Diaz and Mo against Everton still, particularly if Bobby has another solid game tomorrow night.

The CL game next week I think we'll see Darwin or Jota start.

I do think Darwin will be his first choice central striker with Salah and Diaz out wide. Jota will have to really come back very strong to break into that 3 but there will be games where he needs to rotate anyway.
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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3790 on: August 30, 2022, 05:37:08 pm »
Jota is better than Nunez, so he should start when everything is equal.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3791 on: August 30, 2022, 05:38:44 pm »
Jota hasn't had a pre season. So when he does comeback it will be another few weeks before he's fully in gear anyway.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3792 on: August 30, 2022, 05:39:57 pm »
Jota is better than Nunez, so he should start when everything is equal.

In a head to head I reckon Nunez does him.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3793 on: August 30, 2022, 05:42:19 pm »
In a head to head I reckon Nunez does him.

Nunez would need to get down on his knees though.

Offline UntouchableLuis

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3794 on: August 30, 2022, 05:42:52 pm »
Jota is better than Nunez, so he should start when everything is equal.

Possibly.

Will be interesting to see what happens. No one thought Jota would break into the front 3 at first but he did. Maybe Darwin might prove some doubters wrong too.
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Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3795 on: August 30, 2022, 05:47:13 pm »
Jota is better than Nunez, so he should start when everything is equal.
Different players, offer different things. It will be great to have both to choose from.

Bobby’s staking a claim too now.

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3796 on: August 30, 2022, 05:49:53 pm »
In a head to head I reckon Nunez does him.

In a fight, maybe. At football no chance. Jota is a fantastic player.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3797 on: August 30, 2022, 05:54:18 pm »
It'll be great to have him back. As recently as the Man Utd game it seemed like Salah was our only goal threat but Diaz and Firmino looked at their best against Bournemouth, and we could have both Jota and Nunez back as options as soon as the Everton match. Suddenly we're going to go back to having 2 top class attacking players on the bench, not even including Carvalho who looks a real threat too.

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3798 on: August 30, 2022, 06:19:11 pm »
Yep, Jota is the best striker at this club right now.

Offline anandg_lfc

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Re: Welcome Diogo Jota
« Reply #3799 on: August 30, 2022, 06:23:15 pm »
Jota gives us a lot of options as he has the ability to play on the left , centre or as a SS. If we have the four attacking options available for the rest of the season, we wont be short of goals and it will reduce the pressure on our midfield atleast a little bit as they can go back to concentrating on being a cohesive defensive unit.