Author Topic: The England Cricket Thread - 2022  (Read 377938 times)

Offline "21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13960 on: June 28, 2022, 10:02:46 am »
Is this a shift to how test cricket is played, or just the way England approach the game?

Just England.

Its essentially a new way to play test cricket. Score at 5 or more per over and bludgeon the bowlers into submission.

Players like Sehwag used to do it in many games, but as a team strategy, England is taking it to the next level and redefining test cricket.

Of course the sample size is small, but if England continue on this path, we will get to see a lot of exciting test cricket, win or lose.

How viable this approach is on green tops and cracked/dusty wickets in the subcontinent remains to be seen though.
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13961 on: June 28, 2022, 10:30:33 am »
Bairstow is absolutely unstoppable atm. He is empirically proving that its just a different coloured ball in test cricket. His IPL stint has clearly helped his confidence significantly.

I have a feeling Butler will be brought back into the fold as he fits the McCullum template. If he is allowed to play the way he wants to, he could be a force to reckon with.

I like Overton as an all- rounder at no 6 or 7. He has the batting technique and power to make it work. His forward defensive shots are also excellent.

Bad management by NZ to pick only 3 bowlers and keep Ejaz out of the playing 11.  Bracewell is not and never will be front line spinner. He is a decent batsman but his bowling is barely batter than part time.  If they didn't trust Ejaz to do a job, they could have stuck to their strengths and gone with a 4 man seam attack.  Time to try other bowlers again, perhaps the likes of Ferguson and Milne with their genuine pace.

All in all,  England look a different side now. I am loving this new approach to test cricket. 

On this form, India should not worry England. 


We'll see what a decent spin bowler might do to England though. The Kiwi attack did lack variety.

I don't think Buttler will come back. Bairstow is white-ball star, true, but his technique is basically sound and he has such a richer menu of shots that Buttler, often playing the ball late and guiding it to the rope. His record in first-class cricket is far superior to Buttler's. In fact the position - and role - he played for England v New Zealand was almost identical to those he fulfilled for Yorkshire in their Championship winning seasons a few years back. I lost count of the number of times he'd come in after an early batting collapse and steer the team to 400-plus. Too many years being dicked around in the batting order and with/without the gloves have not helped his development with England. He's found his coach in McCullum though.
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13962 on: June 28, 2022, 10:59:31 am »
Just England.

Its essentially a new way to play test cricket. Score at 5 or more per over and bludgeon the bowlers into submission.

Players like Sehwag used to do it in many games, but as a team strategy, England is taking it to the next level and redefining test cricket.

Of course the sample size is small, but if England continue on this path, we will get to see a lot of exciting test cricket, win or lose.

How viable this approach is on green tops and cracked/dusty wickets in the subcontinent remains to be seen though.

Depending on the outlook, you might want to look at Australia under Waugh. Whereas this England team basically takes the Eoin Morgan ODI mentality to Test cricket with the idea that no total is safe, and aim to mentally break the opposition, that Australian team took the view that their batting was solid and deep enough that they wanted to score as many runs as quickly as possible, to give McGrath and Warne as much time as possible in which to bowl out the opposition. They regularly ran up huge totals at 4rpo or more. Bat first, declare at tea on day 2, celebrate an innings victory on day 4.
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Sangria

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13963 on: June 28, 2022, 11:03:53 am »
A super enjoyable series for the neutral.

I couldn't help but thinks the constant references to Potts' durability at every turn was a barely veiled dig at that lanky fella with the dodgy tweets who couldn't bowl a five over spell without picking up an injury.

Bairstow genuinely playing his best cricket ever. Even that chancer Pope getting some runs.

Feels like England have dispensed with with an awful lot of bullshit in the dressing room, everyone knows what they are doing.

Out of interest, why has Kohli stood down as India test captain?

He's still making Athers, Nass and Butch groan with his batting technique. Butcher was especially trenchant about that modern habit of standing on off stump. "Those pads look huge."
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13964 on: June 28, 2022, 11:04:08 am »
Depending on the outlook, you might want to look at Australia under Waugh. Whereas this England team basically takes the Eoin Morgan ODI mentality to Test cricket with the idea that no total is safe, and aim to mentally break the opposition, that Australian team took the view that their batting was solid and deep enough that they wanted to score as many runs as quickly as possible, to give McGrath and Warne as much time as possible in which to bowl out the opposition. They regularly ran up huge totals at 4rpo or more. Bat first, declare at tea on day 2, celebrate an innings victory on day 4.

I remember it well.  Probably, the best team in my lifetime.

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13965 on: June 28, 2022, 03:28:47 pm »
Officially official from Eoin Morgan now. Going to commentate for Sky next.

I was going to write in a smart-arsey way that it took an Irishman to teach the English about one-day cricket, but Mike Atherton's short summary is more suitable:

"Eoin Morgan will be remembered as a cricketer who took a team from the depths to the summit, built a side in his image and changed the way a generation thought about one-day cricket"

Not a bad legacy, is it?
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13966 on: June 28, 2022, 03:43:54 pm »
Depending on the outlook, you might want to look at Australia under Waugh. Whereas this England team basically takes the Eoin Morgan ODI mentality to Test cricket with the idea that no total is safe, and aim to mentally break the opposition, that Australian team took the view that their batting was solid and deep enough that they wanted to score as many runs as quickly as possible, to give McGrath and Warne as much time as possible in which to bowl out the opposition. They regularly ran up huge totals at 4rpo or more. Bat first, declare at tea on day 2, celebrate an innings victory on day 4.

Indeed, that Australian team under Waugh decided, the mentality was to get 4/5 runs an over when batting, & reach around 350 by the end of the day if they batted first, then as you say, boost the score further on day 2, declare at tea on day 2 with a huge total, often 550/600 for a few wickets, it helped that Australia team could bat all the way down to the last partnership, even the Australian batsman coming in at 7 & 8 would often put up 50/100 plus runs in next to no time, the bad old days of slugging it out, batsman reaching 50 on day 2 after batting most of day 1, ala Geoffrey Boycott style, were over.
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13967 on: June 28, 2022, 04:17:05 pm »
We'll see what a decent spin bowler might do to England though. The Kiwi attack did lack variety.

I don't think Buttler will come back. Bairstow is white-ball star, true, but his technique is basically sound and he has such a richer menu of shots that Buttler, often playing the ball late and guiding it to the rope. His record in first-class cricket is far superior to Buttler's. In fact the position - and role - he played for England v New Zealand was almost identical to those he fulfilled for Yorkshire in their Championship winning seasons a few years back. I lost count of the number of times he'd come in after an early batting collapse and steer the team to 400-plus. Too many years being dicked around in the batting order and with/without the gloves have not helped his development with England. He's found his coach in McCullum though.

I agree with this. Bairstow has historically had an issue with lbw, but when in form heís a phenomenal run machine. Buttler would have to be selected for his batting alone, and I just donít see that happening given the candidates now available for the middle order.

I was out fishing all day yesterday, but chuffed to watch the highlights on BBC when I came home. 3 out of 3 against the Kiwis, particularly given the awful record previously, was very encouraging and unexpected frankly. India will present a different challenge, but Iím really looking forward to it.
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13968 on: June 28, 2022, 05:04:13 pm »
He's still making Athers, Nass and Butch groan with his batting technique. Butcher was especially trenchant about that modern habit of standing on off stump. "Those pads look huge."

I guess he was bound to have a few good innings given they say he has talent but I remain unconvinced!

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13969 on: June 28, 2022, 05:39:23 pm »
Depending on the outlook, you might want to look at Australia under Waugh. Whereas this England team basically takes the Eoin Morgan ODI mentality to Test cricket with the idea that no total is safe, and aim to mentally break the opposition, that Australian team took the view that their batting was solid and deep enough that they wanted to score as many runs as quickly as possible, to give McGrath and Warne as much time as possible in which to bowl out the opposition. They regularly ran up huge totals at 4rpo or more. Bat first, declare at tea on day 2, celebrate an innings victory on day 4.

That's what I was thinking, this approach to Test cricket is not entirely new, it was poineered by the Aussie's in that the batsmen would go after the bowlers from ball one, Hayden springs to mind. They'd get on top early and try an dominate the bowlers who if they did get through to the middle order would face the unconventional Gilchrist who could score a century in no time and take the game from you in the blink of an eye. He set new standards in what was expected of a wicketkeeper/batsman and other teams started to look for players who were more batsman than wicketkeeper. The team also set new standards in terms of scoring rates in this format meaning that suddenly test matches were no longer going the full five days. It has to be said that whilst this 'approach' did provide a convincing winning formula, it was backed up by an awful lot of talent in those teams.

You don't know how hard is was to write that piece about the Aussie's. Time is a great healer.
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13970 on: June 28, 2022, 05:49:05 pm »
He's still making Athers, Nass and Butch groan with his batting technique. Butcher was especially trenchant about that modern habit of standing on off stump. "Those pads look huge."

Wonder what they make of Steve Smith, he's hardly textbook, awful to watch.
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13971 on: June 28, 2022, 06:00:31 pm »
Wonder what they make of Steve Smith, he's hardly textbook, awful to watch.

once pope gets a test average of approaching 60 like smith has/did then the questions can stop.

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13972 on: June 28, 2022, 08:27:08 pm »
That's what I was thinking, this approach to Test cricket is not entirely new, it was poineered by the Aussie's in that the batsmen would go after the bowlers from ball one, Hayden springs to mind. They'd get on top early and try an dominate the bowlers who if they did get through to the middle order would face the unconventional Gilchrist who could score a century in no time and take the game from you in the blink of an eye. He set new standards in what was expected of a wicketkeeper/batsman and other teams started to look for players who were more batsman than wicketkeeper. The team also set new standards in terms of scoring rates in this format meaning that suddenly test matches were no longer going the full five days. It has to be said that whilst this 'approach' did provide a convincing winning formula, it was backed up by an awful lot of talent in those teams.

You don't know how hard is was to write that piece about the Aussie's. Time is a great healer.
 ;D   

I can happily say that that Australian side was one of the greatest of all time, pioneering in many aspects, and deserving of all the praise that they got and that they will continue to get. I can happily say that, because we beat them in 2005 (albeit under Ponting). At our very peak, we produced a team that could live with that ATG Aussie side, and win. That's as much as I can ask for. Of course, they were an ATG side and we were not, because they sustained it and we didn't.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13973 on: June 28, 2022, 08:38:07 pm »
I'm really getting into this cricket malarky.  I've even started the don Bradman book. Fascinating stuff, but clearly geared to test cricket. I suspect he'd write a lot differently if assuming at a short form player.

Bradman scored the quickest hundred in grade cricket, reaching the mark in 22 balls (2x1, 1x2, 9x4, 10x6). It stretched 3 8 ball overs, and took 18 minutes. Presumably it would have been quicker but for getting the ball back after each 6.
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13974 on: June 28, 2022, 09:51:59 pm »
Fair point. Was it you that recommended the book? Thanks if so .
My observation was based around how he talks about having the bat on the floor until the ball is released. Modern day cricketers seem to weild it like a baseball bat.
It's fascinating watching youngsters in nets learning to hit the ball. You can see the huge difference between experienced and inexperienced even with my novice eyes at U11 ( and bear in mind they lost practice time with covid)
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Offline Sangria

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13975 on: June 28, 2022, 10:17:13 pm »
Fair point. Was it you that recommended the book? Thanks if so .
My observation was based around how he talks about having the bat on the floor until the ball is released. Modern day cricketers seem to weild it like a baseball bat.
It's fascinating watching youngsters in nets learning to hit the ball. You can see the huge difference between experienced and inexperienced even with my novice eyes at U11 ( and bear in mind they lost practice time with covid)

Most bowlers from Bradman's time weren't as quick as the really express modern day bowlers. Footage of Larwood suggests he'd be right up there with the 90mph merchants, but he was an exception (and Eddie Gilbert was supposed to have been noticeably even quicker still). The extremely upright actions of other "quick" bowlers suggest they'd be Trent Boult pace at most. The orthodox technique of Bradman's time would have been suitable for bowlers from that era.

Something else that's different might be the weight of bats. Ye olde batsmen tended to favour lighter bats, whereas modern batsmen wouldn't look at a bat that's lighter than a ton. Old batting technique focused on getting the right body shape to favour timing the ball, whereas modern batting technique focuses on allowing the batsman a free swing at the ball. Bradman says that he once scored a double hundred at Lord's where every single shot went exactly where he'd intended it. You wouldn't get an innings like that today, but then miscues often carry to the boundary regardless.
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13976 on: June 29, 2022, 11:24:45 am »
Old batting technique focused on getting the right body shape to favour timing the ball, whereas modern batting technique focuses on allowing the batsman a free swing at the ball.

Would you mind spending the time on expanding that? I can't figure out what you mean.

Bradman is totally right that rolled up sleeves look classier than short sleeves though :)
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13977 on: June 29, 2022, 04:04:06 pm »
Would you mind spending the time on expanding that? I can't figure out what you mean.

Bradman is totally right that rolled up sleeves look classier than short sleeves though :)

Classical batting technique focuses on hitting the ball at just the right moment with the middle of the bat so it goes to ground with enough pace to go to the boundary. The best example of that I've seen is Mark Ramprakash. I don't know how heavy his bat was, but the idea is that even a light bat (under 2.5 lbs) can do this.

With heavy bats (3 lbs and more), even a mistimed hoick can clear the fielders and the boundary. The aim is less picking off the bad ball with minimal risk, and more pick a ball that's somewhere in the strike area (to use a baseball term) and swing hard at it.

Root is getting more into the latter mode, but he is still mostly the former. The likes of Bairstow, Stokes, etc. are purely the latter.

On Ramprakash: I can't remember which series it was, but I remember a shot that the commentator described as a straight bat cut, where he went on tip toes to get on top of the bounce whilst directing the ball square on the offside. Beautifully timed, and played with exquisite technique, but so, so difficult to execute. I reckon Bradman would have pulled the same ball in front of square on the legside.
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13978 on: June 29, 2022, 06:57:21 pm »
Thanks Sangria. So, to put it crudely, the difference between placing your shot top right hand corner and smashing at the goal? 
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13979 on: June 29, 2022, 07:47:05 pm »
Thanks Sangria. So, to put it crudely, the difference between placing your shot top right hand corner and smashing at the goal? 


Pretty much.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 07:48:50 pm by Sangria »
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13980 on: June 30, 2022, 07:50:12 pm »
Why is tomorrows match at Edgbaston, when the cancelled test was Old Trafford?
We already have shit in the country, and the game of Liverpool fills life with joy. Thanks

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13981 on: June 30, 2022, 07:51:17 pm »
Why is tomorrows match at Edgbaston, when the cancelled test was Old Trafford?
Because Birmingham is better than Manchester?

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13982 on: July 1, 2022, 07:05:29 am »
Beans means runs . One for yorky. Wrong thread in sure but I haven't the capacity to be in more threads!
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13983 on: July 1, 2022, 08:04:02 am »
Because Birmingham is better than Manchester?

In the way that chlamydia is better than syphillis?

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13984 on: July 1, 2022, 10:28:09 am »
England win the toss and will bowl.

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13985 on: July 1, 2022, 10:28:39 am »
I get a little bit of excitement every time I see Anderson pick up the new ball on day 1
We already have shit in the country, and the game of Liverpool fills life with joy. Thanks

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13986 on: July 1, 2022, 10:32:38 am »
Why the 10.30 start? Does it get dark early in Birmingham or something?

Donít tell me itís to do with Indian TV?

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13987 on: July 1, 2022, 10:34:12 am »
Pujara opening?

Jimmy must be licking his lips.
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13988 on: July 1, 2022, 10:37:23 am »
Why the 10.30 start? Does it get dark early in Birmingham or something?

Donít tell me itís to do with Indian TV?

It's nothing to do with that (it is)

I'm fine with it. I think a bit of flexibility with start times is a good thing.

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13989 on: July 1, 2022, 10:37:35 am »
any streams?

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13990 on: July 1, 2022, 10:38:35 am »
It's nothing to do with that (it is)

I'm fine with it. I think a bit of flexibility with start times is a good thing.

Itís shite when youíve planned your work calls around the intervals. :D

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13991 on: July 1, 2022, 11:39:42 am »
Pujara survives after review.

We already have shit in the country, and the game of Liverpool fills life with joy. Thanks

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13992 on: July 1, 2022, 12:06:52 pm »
Pujara opening?

Jimmy must be licking his lips.
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13993 on: July 1, 2022, 12:18:51 pm »
Just seen replays of the 2 wickets and first I wondered if I was watching the first one again. Very similar.

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13994 on: July 1, 2022, 12:26:55 pm »
Ravi Shastri doesnít seem a barrel of laughs.

Offline kloppismydad

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13995 on: July 1, 2022, 12:32:34 pm »
Ravi Shastri doesnít seem a barrel of laughs.

Spare a thought for him considering he was the coach for the 4th test and is commentating on the 5th. :D
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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13996 on: July 1, 2022, 12:39:07 pm »
Spare a thought for him considering he was the coach for the 4th test and is commentating on the 5th. :D

Was he fired? If so, why? India are in a pretty decent place cricket wise arenít they?

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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13997 on: July 1, 2022, 12:45:48 pm »
So Lancashire wonít be winning the T20 Blast. 5 of their players names in the England T20 squad (and 4 of them in the ODI) squad for the India series that takes place over the same time as the QFs and finals day.


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Re: The England Cricket Thread - 2022
« Reply #13999 on: July 1, 2022, 02:03:27 pm »
England v South Africa: Issy Wong says she is 'the Divock Origi of women's cricket'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/61989382
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