Author Topic: Naby Keita Watch  (Read 1889192 times)

Offline Red Bird

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14400 on: October 21, 2022, 10:47:53 am »
There are always the utterly meaningless friendlies.
Fortunately FIFA will not allow any other internationals during the WC …

Offline SouthDerryLaggo

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14401 on: October 21, 2022, 11:14:12 am »
There are always the utterly meaningless friendlies.
Played on ploughed fields
YNWA

Offline farawayred

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14402 on: October 21, 2022, 11:16:25 am »
Played on ploughed fields
Right after harvesting the turnips.
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Offline JasonF

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14403 on: October 21, 2022, 11:19:19 am »
I don’t think he’s even back in full training yet and he’s been out a while. Did he even have a pre-season?

Think it will be another 2 or 3 weeks at least before we see anything of him

Yeah he played every match of pre season. He'll need to start again pretty much though you'd imagine.

Offline tubby

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14404 on: October 21, 2022, 11:31:22 am »
I'm not falling for this one again.
Sit down, shock is better taken with bent knees.

Offline James...

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14405 on: October 21, 2022, 11:49:13 am »
I don’t particularly rate him (more lack of physicality and off ball than actual on ball ability) but it’s a nice option to have back. Rather he was coming on than Milner or Jones. Maybe even ahead of Fabinho at this point with the way he’s looked.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14406 on: October 21, 2022, 12:22:46 pm »
I'm not falling for this one again.
I’m all in
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Offline lollysportswasher

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14407 on: October 21, 2022, 12:27:41 pm »
We should just cut our losses and move on, even if he's fit again he will be injured again. He was given plenty of chances in this club and sadly our training regime is not fit for his physical abilities.

Offline Aldo1988

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14408 on: October 21, 2022, 12:31:57 pm »
We should just cut our losses and move on, even if he's fit again he will be injured again. He was given plenty of chances in this club and sadly our training regime is not fit for his physical abilities.

Kind of with you on this, he's a good player but is too unreliable due to injuries.  Let him go on a free and get someone like MacAllister or Laimer in on a free to replace him.
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14409 on: October 21, 2022, 12:34:33 pm »
Kind of with you on this, he's a good player but is too unreliable due to injuries.  Let him go on a free and get someone like MacAllister or Laimer in on a free to replace him.

:D
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Santiago

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14410 on: October 21, 2022, 12:34:41 pm »
even if he's fit again he will be injured again.

Keita? or Thiago, or Jones, or Henderson or basically all our midfielders

Offline JasonF

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14411 on: October 21, 2022, 12:36:42 pm »
OK but there's still 3/4 of a season left so let's finish that first before talking about letting one of our best midfielders go on a free.

I've seen people say we should ship him out in January for whatever we can get. How much do you think we get for a player with 6 months left with Keita's injury history? Certainly not enough for a replacement and players of Naby's quality are few and far between.

Offline Aldo1988

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14412 on: October 21, 2022, 12:36:46 pm »
:D

I know, just hoping he's over his injuries like Thiago was when he signed for us  ;) ;D
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Offline Bucko - Dubai

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14413 on: October 21, 2022, 12:56:27 pm »
OK but there's still 3/4 of a season left so let's finish that first before talking about letting one of our best midfielders go on a free.

I've seen people say we should ship him out in January for whatever we can get. How much do you think we get for a player with 6 months left with Keita's injury history? Certainly not enough for a replacement and players of Naby's quality are few and far between.

Even 5 million would be worth it to save on the wages considering he will inevitably be injured for half of it anyway.

Hope we dont offer him a new contract as its essentially a wasted place in the squad which I can imagine at this point frustrates the other players

Offline JasonF

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14414 on: October 21, 2022, 01:02:33 pm »
Even 5 million would be worth it to save on the wages considering he will inevitably be injured for half of it anyway.

Hope we dont offer him a new contract as its essentially a wasted place in the squad which I can imagine at this point frustrates the other players

He played 40 games and went 10 months without an injury last season. 6 months of Keita is worth more than £5m just like it was worth keeping Can and Wijnaldum over what we could have got for them at the time.

£5m is nothing. That barely buys you a talented youngster these days.

Klopp is excited to have him back anyway, just seen the press conference. Naby (and Ibou) back in full training on Monday.

Offline farawayred

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14415 on: October 22, 2022, 07:59:39 am »
He played 40 games and went 10 months without an injury last season. 6 months of Keita is worth more than £5m just like it was worth keeping Can and Wijnaldum over what we could have got for them at the time.

£5m is nothing. That barely buys you a talented youngster these days.

Klopp is excited to have him back anyway, just seen the press conference. Naby (and Ibou) back in full training on Monday.
I agree with your £5m comment, but I never bought into the 40-game thing. It’s selective picking; that’s not how statistics work. Naby is a great talent, but his unavailability - over all of his career with us - makes him fully dispensable. People give the Matip example of last season too, but where is he now?

The difference between Matip and Keita is the he players who can fill their shoes. Gomez can be a capable deputy, and even though he had his nightmarish injuries, he’s fit. His form is the only concern. Konate has not yet been shown to be injury-prone. If Gomez, Konate and Matip were in the same category, then I’d look at Matip in the same light as Naby. But that’s not the case (yet). Regarding Naby, we have Ox, Jones, Hendo, Thiago all struggling with injuries, some more long term than others. Of that group, I’d only pick Thiago to hold on to, and maybe Hendo being the captain. But we need to replace Ox and Naby with players who can be available for most games. Otherwise, it’s a domino effect - overplaying the available players leads to more injuries.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2022, 08:02:08 am by farawayred »
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Offline Knight

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14416 on: October 22, 2022, 08:31:09 am »
I agree with your £5m comment, but I never bought into the 40-game thing. It’s selective picking; that’s not how statistics work. Naby is a great talent, but his unavailability - over all of his career with us - makes him fully dispensable. People give the Matip example of last season too, but where is he now?

The difference between Matip and Keita is the he players who can fill their shoes. Gomez can be a capable deputy, and even though he had his nightmarish injuries, he’s fit. His form is the only concern. Konate has not yet been shown to be injury-prone. If Gomez, Konate and Matip were in the same category, then I’d look at Matip in the same light as Naby. But that’s not the case (yet). Regarding Naby, we have Ox, Jones, Hendo, Thiago all struggling with injuries, some more long term than others. Of that group, I’d only pick Thiago to hold on to, and maybe Hendo being the captain. But we need to replace Ox and Naby with players who can be available for most games. Otherwise, it’s a domino effect - overplaying the available players leads to more injuries.

This is right. If he'd been fit all season so far I think we could have started to say, 'perhaps his injury history is behind him', because he was fit loads last year. But the season started early and it's late October, and he won't be fit for a first 11 until November. That's a massive portion of the season gone already. And because, as you say, we've got other midfielders who are injury prone or ageing or both, we cannot afford to have one of our only prime age midfielders be as injury prone as Keita is. I reckon Keita and Thiago are both so good that you could have one of them in the squad, but you can't have both. It's a similar story with Milner and Henderson. For the last 2 season's we could have had one of them in the squad, but both of them has unbalanced us. As have multiple young players who look an iffy fit for our CM roles.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2022, 08:32:44 am by Knight »

Offline Keith Lard

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14417 on: October 22, 2022, 05:36:36 pm »
Fuck we need Naby back soon. The Forest game was the EXACT type of game that he was needed for.

The hope kills me with this lad.
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Offline deanloco9

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14418 on: October 23, 2022, 03:10:57 am »
Really hope he can stay fit but it's always a tough ask! He's a quality player when he's fit

Offline spider-neil

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14419 on: October 23, 2022, 09:50:37 am »
IMHO he's got to go straight into the team.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14420 on: October 23, 2022, 10:00:26 am »
Fuck we need Naby back soon. The Forest game was the EXACT type of game that he was needed for.

The hope kills me with this lad.

If Thiago isn't there then Keita is needed. Arthur also signed as an understudy but has been a dead loss as well.

Squad of crocks.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14421 on: October 23, 2022, 10:27:30 am »
IMHO he's got to go straight into the team.

You mean straight to the beach yeh? He will train for the first time with the full team on Monday after being out 2 or 3 months and we have 3 more league games to the world cup.

Offline lollysportswasher

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14422 on: October 25, 2022, 09:57:26 am »
Rumours are saying Chelsea/Arsenal are interested in him.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14423 on: October 25, 2022, 10:07:23 am »
Rumours are saying Chelsea/Arsenal are interested in him.

Good news.

Offline classycarra

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14424 on: October 25, 2022, 10:14:05 am »
Good news.
It's not. Not terrible either (so long as we have a plan and we succeed in replacing his quality)

If he had one/two years left on his contract, then reported interest might be a positive. As it is, we need to maximise what we can out of him before June.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14425 on: October 25, 2022, 10:17:08 am »
It's not. Not terrible either (so long as we have a plan and we succeed in replacing his quality)

If he had one/two years left on his contract, then reported interest might be a positive. As it is, we need to maximise what we can out of him before June.

Good news in that I am a bit nervous we extend his contract.

Offline classycarra

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14426 on: October 25, 2022, 10:49:52 am »
Good news in that I am a bit nervous we extend his contract.
There's a circumstance where we extend his contract and it works well for us, but that depends on us paying a salary that recognises his regular unavailability.

He's in the same camp as Matip where if he is out a while, he comes back in and he performs in line with what we need for our system to operate. And he also performs to a high level. Replacing his skills will cost a lot of money, and presumably a high wage (unless we buy a young project).

But yes, we agree we shouldn't be offering him high wages out of loyalty or to 'protect his value' (and then price him out of a move). Or with a naive idea that he's going to play a 50 games a season for us and allocating money along those lines - meaning spending on his contract has the opportunity cost of a more available option.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14427 on: October 25, 2022, 11:20:59 am »
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14428 on: October 25, 2022, 01:15:35 pm »
Rumours are saying Chelsea/Arsenal are interested in him.

Rumours are saying Scarlett Johansson / Emily Blunt are interested in me.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14429 on: October 25, 2022, 01:19:58 pm »
We can't win with him honestly. If we give him a new contract, we'll have another 3 years of the same. Injuries, not reliable and when he does play he's not that good that he's worth it.

Let him walk/sell him it'll be a massive bust considering the money, wages and time we've spent on him.

Personally, I'd say cut our losses. I liked the look of him in his first season, but since then even when he's played he's not often impressed me anyway
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
[/quote]

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14430 on: October 25, 2022, 02:15:17 pm »
Good news.

Losing our second best midfielder to a rival is never good news.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14431 on: October 25, 2022, 02:53:13 pm »
There's a circumstance where we extend his contract and it works well for us, but that depends on us paying a salary that recognises his regular unavailability.

He's in the same camp as Matip where if he is out a while, he comes back in and he performs in line with what we need for our system to operate. And he also performs to a high level. Replacing his skills will cost a lot of money, and presumably a high wage (unless we buy a young project).

But yes, we agree we shouldn't be offering him high wages out of loyalty or to 'protect his value' (and then price him out of a move). Or with a naive idea that he's going to play a 50 games a season for us and allocating money along those lines - meaning spending on his contract has the opportunity cost of a more available option.


The problem is, if he's available on a free, other clubs can afford to offer a signing fee plus higher wages.

If we're only going to offer a lower salary (and I agree that we should be doing, given his persistent injuries and having rarely shown in a Liverpool kit that he's top quality) then he'll leave.

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14432 on: October 25, 2022, 03:01:50 pm »
Losing our second best midfielder to a rival is never good news.

It is. He is always injured when we really need him. The midfield group we have is a huge mess and we are close to needing to knock it all down and start again.

Offline thaddeus

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14433 on: October 25, 2022, 03:03:37 pm »

The problem is, if he's available on a free, other clubs can afford to offer a signing fee plus higher wages.

If we're only going to offer a lower salary (and I agree that we should be doing, given his persistent injuries and having rarely shown in a Liverpool kit that he's top quality) then he'll leave.
We're free to offer the equivalent signing fee and wages.  With our experience and knowledge it would seem very unlikely that we'd do so.  Our wage structure is very generous though - top 10 in the world - so even on reduced terms he'd be out of reach of most clubs unless they were willing to make him one of their very top earners.

There will always be clubs that think they can magically resolve the issues, be that injury or attitude related.  We've been there in the past with Joe Cole.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14434 on: October 25, 2022, 03:12:50 pm »
It is. He is always injured when we really need him. The midfield group we have is a huge mess and we are close to needing to knock it all down and start again.

Agreed, and that starts with Ox and Keita being moved on. Any money we get for them is a bonus, and then it'll be ~240K pw saved on wages. Neither of them are available 1/10 of the time we need them for.

Milner and Henderson are ageing out, Fabinho is hideously out of form - but at least these players are available most of the time, and I'd rather that than banking on someone who can only be relied on to be available for 10 games a season, and that's usually not even in one consistent spell so they can't even get into any form or match fitness.

There's no magical fix for most injury prone players, hoping they'll eventually get over it is just madness.
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
[/quote]

Offline classycarra

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14435 on: October 25, 2022, 03:14:11 pm »
The problem is, if he's available on a free, other clubs can afford to offer a signing fee plus higher wages.

If we're only going to offer a lower salary (and I agree that we should be doing, given his persistent injuries and having rarely shown in a Liverpool kit that he's top quality) then he'll leave.
Yep agreed. On balance, I think that's the likeliest outcome.

Occasionally an injury prone players circumstances might contribute to there being a higher chance of staying put - I don't know the details, but I suspect Gomez may have let his contract run down a little further if he hadn't had a history of serious and long term injuries. Plus he is well settled at the club - but I'm not sure someone like Naby would be. 

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14436 on: October 25, 2022, 03:14:53 pm »
How can you lose something you've almost never had.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14437 on: October 25, 2022, 03:26:57 pm »
Losing our second best midfielder to a rival is never good news.

To even be "good" never mind second best you have to be available to play.
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Offline didi shamone

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14438 on: October 25, 2022, 03:27:12 pm »
How can you lose something you've almost never had.

Ask Liz Truss.

Seriously though he's made 76 league appearances across his four full seasons.  On one hand playing in roughly 50% of our games is terrible for a marquee signing.

On the other hand when he goes ( which he should imo) it'll mean a quality player who's played 50% of our games will be gone. It'll unquestionably make us even weaker in midfield  unless we replace him. 

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #14439 on: October 25, 2022, 03:31:05 pm »
Ask Liz Truss.

Seriously though he's made 76 league appearances across his four full seasons.  On one hand playing in roughly 50% of our games is terrible for a marquee signing.

On the other hand when he goes ( which he should imo) it'll mean a quality player who's played 50% of our games will be gone. It'll unquestionably make us even weaker in midfield  unless we replace him.

And 50% of our games isn’t the scenario where he’s left on the bench and alternate between the other midfielders to optimise rest and sharpness. He’s there for a cluster of games and then out for a bunch. Which obviously makes it less useful and there’s always a few games to get him up to speed again every time he comes back.