Author Topic: Trent Alexander-Arnold  (Read 1053104 times)

Offline Clayton Bigsby

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10160 on: October 2, 2022, 03:48:35 pm »
If we are not going to/cant afford to rest him can we get him some bloody consistent help on his side. So often isolated, he cant do the job of two men. He also needs to just patrol the right hand side, no more floating.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10161 on: October 2, 2022, 05:33:56 pm »
But say he didn’t get injured?  That’s what I’m saying. It’s not like he came injured was it?  He played 24 league games for Aberdeen last year.

Just thought it was flawed logic. We’ve got a badly out of sorts player in Trent and no one to be back up for him. Apart from the player we’ve put out for 3/4 months

His injury was discovered during his initial fitness tests so you can assume he was injured when he arrived.

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/07/liverpool-must-be-careful-with-calvin-ramsay-injury-explains-klopp/

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10162 on: October 2, 2022, 05:40:56 pm »
Perhaps if we still had Neco Williams he could get a few games at RB and chuck Trent into midfield and see how that goes. Not that he got much of a look in anyway but Trent has been pretty much undroppable for years and now his level has dropped alarmingly, with a lot of mitigation in terms of tactics and the midfield, but there's no real alternative.

We can't play Milner there, we nearly lost a derby by making that sub, and we can forget about Ramsey for a while. It only really leaves Gomez and that's not an ongoing solution, he's someone who can fill in there here and there.

Sorting out the RCM role is more pressing along with simplifying Trent's game back.
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Offline lfcred1976

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10163 on: October 2, 2022, 05:43:43 pm »
His injury was discovered during his initial fitness tests so you can assume he was injured when he arrived.

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/07/liverpool-must-be-careful-with-calvin-ramsay-injury-explains-klopp/

Also from here: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/liverpool-setback-for-calvin-ramsay-as-medical-reveals-ex-aberdeen-youngster-has-injury-complication-3762587?amp

Unfortunately, Calvin is now not training with us in the moment, he has a little injury," Klopp explained. “Nobody knew, we found it when he did his medical check. Until today he has no problems.

Still think it’s piss poor to do what we did but hey ho, it’s happened now.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10164 on: October 2, 2022, 05:45:29 pm »
Also from here: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/liverpool-setback-for-calvin-ramsay-as-medical-reveals-ex-aberdeen-youngster-has-injury-complication-3762587?amp

Unfortunately, Calvin is now not training with us in the moment, he has a little injury," Klopp explained. “Nobody knew, we found it when he did his medical check. Until today he has no problems.

Still think it’s piss poor to do what we did but hey ho, it’s happened now.

I’m still at loss why it’s piss poor what we did?

Buy an 18 year old and discover he was carrying an injury or not play him after we’d discovered the injury?

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10165 on: October 2, 2022, 05:47:55 pm »
Calvin is back in full training now. He and Kelleher will play a couple of Under 21 games to get their match fitness up.

Offline lfcred1976

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10166 on: October 2, 2022, 05:55:27 pm »
I’m still at loss why it’s piss poor what we did?

Buy an 18 year old and discover he was carrying an injury or not play him after we’d discovered the injury?

He was playing, they didn’t know about the injury and the use of the word “could”. Would be a different story if he arrived with something that was stopping him playing. Our medical team doesn’t fill me with confidence in all honesty so why not just see how he got on before deciding if he really needed an operation. But it’s been done now so……

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10167 on: October 2, 2022, 07:25:08 pm »
He was playing, they didn’t know about the injury and the use of the word “could”. Would be a different story if he arrived with something that was stopping him playing. Our medical team doesn’t fill me with confidence in all honesty so why not just see how he got on before deciding if he really needed an operation. But it’s been done now so……

Not as bad as your use of the phrase 'yet we put him out for several months’.

What is (or rather was) his injury by the way?

Offline Samie

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10168 on: October 2, 2022, 07:28:40 pm »
Something to do with his back. He wasn't injured but we discovered it in his medical and decided to act on it now rather not do anything and it causes the kid trouble later down the line.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10169 on: October 2, 2022, 07:34:08 pm »
Something to do with his back. He wasn't injured but we discovered it in his medical and decided to act on it now rather not do anything and it causes the kid trouble later down the line.

I wonder if it was a case of him not really being injured - but saying yeah it causes me discomfort but I play through it and then the club saying let's fix it now.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10170 on: October 2, 2022, 07:37:54 pm »
Is Calvin Ramsey our saviour now?

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10171 on: October 2, 2022, 07:43:42 pm »
Is Calvin Ramsey our saviour now?

Let's not turn this into a religious debate.

You don't want the Roman Catholic Church coming down on us.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10172 on: October 2, 2022, 07:57:57 pm »
Let's not turn this into a religious debate.

You don't want the Roman Catholic Church coming down on us.

;D

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10173 on: October 2, 2022, 08:09:49 pm »
Trent needs to be taken out of the team for a while, for his and the teams good.
Don't think it would do us any harm having to get the ball down and play, we clearly have become to reliant on him. Trent has ridiculous amounts of talent he just needs to get his head back in the basics (goes for VVD and Fab aswell)

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10174 on: October 2, 2022, 09:43:22 pm »
Does anyone have heat maps for this season compared to last season?

Offline MH41

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10175 on: October 2, 2022, 10:40:16 pm »
I'm always wary of young players having to play too many games at an early age.
Trent is 23 and has already played close to 250 games for us.
He plays too regularly for my liking, and the worrying thing is that we don't appear to have an adequate replacement.
I'm not accepting that the young lad from Scotland was ever bought with a view to him being able to immediately be trusted to play first team football.
This makes our decision to both sell Neco Williams and to send out Conor Bradley on loan seem almost negligent.
I actually agree that the money we got for Neco is too much to turn down, and that it will be good experience for Conor Bradley to get playing regularly, but you cannot have a 17 year old untried lad as the alternative to TAA, particularly if he gets an injury.
Perhaps we see Gomez/Milner as the viable alternatives.

Offline ljycb

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10176 on: October 2, 2022, 11:24:13 pm »
I'm always wary of young players having to play too many games at an early age.
Trent is 23 and has already played close to 250 games for us.
He plays too regularly for my liking, and the worrying thing is that we don't appear to have an adequate replacement.
I'm not accepting that the young lad from Scotland was ever bought with a view to him being able to immediately be trusted to play first team football.
This makes our decision to both sell Neco Williams and to send out Conor Bradley on loan seem almost negligent.
I actually agree that the money we got for Neco is too much to turn down, and that it will be good experience for Conor Bradley to get playing regularly, but you cannot have a 17 year old untried lad as the alternative to TAA, particularly if he gets an injury.
Perhaps we see Gomez/Milner as the viable alternatives.

Gomez away to Newcastle in last season's run-in was an impeccable performance at right-back. I think the idea is Trent as first choice, Gomez and Milner covering when necessary, and then we see what happens with the new lad as he settles in.

Just on the amount of games Trent has played - it is a lot, but I'm sure there was some data in the summer which suggested that he hasn't played as many minutes as you would expect. It's important to remember that Trent himself only considered himself as definite first choice at the very end of 2018/19 (Gomez started the first leg of the semi-final as an example of how he was still being rotated), so it's not like we put him in the team once Clyne was injured in 2017 and he has played non-stop ever since.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10177 on: October 3, 2022, 10:33:59 am »
Plenty of Midfielders starter their careers at RB then moved to the midfield. Trent is still young, he can easily adjust his new role.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10178 on: October 3, 2022, 10:42:49 am »
Plenty of Midfielders starter their careers at RB then moved to the midfield. Trent is still young, he can easily adjust his new role.

Buts he playing RB for us.

He’s not starting in midfield.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10179 on: October 3, 2022, 11:00:45 am »
Buts he playing RB for us.

He’s not starting in midfield.

The problem is that he doesn't play RB for us.  He plays in midfield, right wing and right back, all at the same time.  If our tactics are built around putting him into midfield positions, why not just play him in midfield instead.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10180 on: October 3, 2022, 11:06:34 am »
I think part of the problem is that Trent isn't clear in his mind exactly what position he's playing - RB or Midfield.
Second goal Brighton - poor chest trap - gets caught and the ball is away with the Brighton player. Having lost the ball instinctively as a defender you'd think charge back to get the ball back, but it is almost as if Trent is ambling back/round as he expects the RB to recover the ball...and he'll wait for it to be recovered as an out ball on the edge of the 12 yards area.

But Trent is the RB...

Offline Jwils21

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10181 on: October 3, 2022, 11:27:55 am »
He's under the microscope now as the Ingurland loving media are desperate to get talking points out of him and drive that TAA v James v Walker v Trippier debate.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10182 on: October 3, 2022, 12:10:35 pm »
I mean all 236 of his senior appearances have been at RB so not sure of the merit in this idea he suddenly doesn't know or has forgotten how to play that position, or doesn't understand the requirements of it.

Putting him in midfield isn't the answer, short-term or longer-term. Short-term, because we don't actually have any senior/experienced RBs, just a collection of players who can play there with varying levels of success. Long-term, we seem to be overlooking the fact that he was for a period of time arguably the best RB in the world, and that's not easy to replace.

Part of it us undoubtedly Trent being hung out to dry by the set-up and part of it is just poor individual form, but I'm not sure the current version of Trent is any more useful to us in midfield. You'd probably get better passing but I'm not sure we'd necessarily be much more solid - if Trent applied the same level of defensive effort in midfield as he has been in defence we'd still be easily targeted down that side, even if someone like Gomez was actually physically occupying a RB position. Doesn't solve our lack of pace/aggression in the middle, doesn't solve our tendency to lose second balls, doesn't solve our poor pressing, doesn't solve the issue that it's just far to easy to bypass our midfield and get a run at our defence (which is forcing them into poor decisions and mistakes that cost goals).

We'd be better served by telling him to adopt a more conventional RB role and see if he can play himself back into form.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10183 on: October 3, 2022, 12:16:21 pm »
The problem is that he doesn't play RB for us.  He plays in midfield, right wing and right back, all at the same time.  If our tactics are built around putting him into midfield positions, why not just play him in midfield instead.

Exactly and is why I’m not convinced swapping him out will suddenly change what’s happening. It’s the tactics for me which need altering or getting a more mobile midfield to help cover the space he leaves behind. The 3rd goal for them showed Fabinho treading in treacle trying to get back was painful and you could see it coming a mile off. If we keep the same tactics with the same personnel in midfield, it wouldn’t matter if we had a peak Lahm/cafu/alves or alberto there.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10184 on: October 3, 2022, 12:30:52 pm »
We'd be better served by telling him to adopt a more conventional RB role and see if he can play himself back into form.
Simply sticking to the right hand side would help a lot in terms of our attacking. I feel that Mo is playing a bit too wide and is sometimes isolated and having to take on 2 players too often without Trent to pull it back to.

I'm not sure Trent's runs into centre midfield are working for us, as we don't seem to take advantage of it. I noticed several times that he was free and in space just outside the pen area but we never passed to him (including Thiago). Surely the point of him getting into that position is to either receive the ball, or bring a defender out to deal with him creating space for others.

Regardless of his positioning in attack during the match (I don't mind him getting caught upfield) but most of his mistakes are coming when he already is in an RB position - poor clearances, the bad chest control on Sat and the slow reactions to events around him. These are all things he should be doing better at (though he isn't the only one).

I would want to start Gomez tomorrow, if only to get Trent mentally ready for Arsenal.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10185 on: October 3, 2022, 01:13:38 pm »
Buts he playing RB for us.

He’s not starting in midfield.

Trent ends up at right back more likely. The guy is making a run into the box (why? Since when has he shown the consistent ability to score goals in the box), playing in the number 10 role etc.

I actually thought one of our best bits of play in the first half is when he overlapped and crossed the ball in and it was just cleared before Carvalho got it.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10186 on: October 3, 2022, 07:44:13 pm »
Great bit of analysis on MNF.

So much for him to learn and improve.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10187 on: October 3, 2022, 07:51:18 pm »
Great bit of analysis on MNF.

So much for him to learn and improve.

The most obvious thing on all the clips that wasn't mentioned is that he has 2 or 3 pulling into his area and there is no support.

We've been a great defence previously with Trent in it- the system has changed and its all falling apart at the moment as the spaces are too big.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10188 on: October 3, 2022, 08:06:05 pm »
The problem is that he doesn't play RB for us.  He plays in midfield, right wing and right back, all at the same time.  If our tactics are built around putting him into midfield positions, why not just play him in midfield instead.

Our tactics are about the RH three rotating positions. One defending, one providing width and the third finding room in the half spaces.

It worked really well at times. Unfortunately Hendo has declined physically and Elliott hasn't really got back to the level he was at pre injury.

I think Trent is tucking in too much because he isn't confident enough in the cover if he goes high and wide like he used to.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10189 on: October 3, 2022, 08:17:18 pm »
Our tactics are about the RH three rotating positions. One defending, one providing width and the third finding room in the half spaces.

It worked really well at times. Unfortunately Hendo has declined physically and Elliott hasn't really got back to the level he was at pre injury.

I think Trent is tucking in too much because he isn't confident enough in the cover if he goes high and wide like he used to.

Sam McGuire posted a screenshot on twitter with our entire right side in the middle. Trent even marginally left side. It really seems like something we can easily adjust and become instantly more solid.


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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10190 on: October 3, 2022, 08:21:13 pm »
Our tactics are about the RH three rotating positions. One defending, one providing width and the third finding room in the half spaces.

It worked really well at times. Unfortunately Hendo has declined physically and Elliott hasn't really got back to the level he was at pre injury.

I think Trent is tucking in too much because he isn't confident enough in the cover if he goes high and wide like he used to.

Yeah got to agree with this, and I'd throw Fabinho into the convo too. Last season he'd provide a lot of extra cover for that side and his form this season has seen this being done less / not as effectively.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10191 on: October 3, 2022, 08:35:20 pm »
Sam McGuire posted a screenshot on twitter with our entire right side in the middle. Trent even marginally left side. It really seems like something we can easily adjust and become instantly more solid.



It’s odd and there’s no way it’s not by design
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10192 on: October 3, 2022, 08:38:25 pm »
Would want to see the passage of play that put Trent in that position.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10193 on: October 3, 2022, 08:38:48 pm »
It’s odd and there’s no way it’s not by design

Exactly, just go back to how we played before and the problem is fixed surely?

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10194 on: October 3, 2022, 08:39:36 pm »
Would want to see the passage of play that put Trent in that position.

The article is behind a paywall so I can't see the rest of it, but I was pointing this out to my brother while we watched. Trent was in the 10 position very often.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10195 on: October 3, 2022, 08:41:07 pm »
The article is behind a paywall so I can't see the rest of it, but I was pointing this out to my brother while we watched. Trent was in the 10 position very often.

Yeah remember him popping up there a couple of times, is that him as the furthest forward in the screenshot, or is that Salah?
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10196 on: October 3, 2022, 08:41:45 pm »
Yeah got to agree with this, and I'd throw Fabinho into the convo too. Last season he'd provide a lot of extra cover for that side and his form this season has seen this being done less / not as effectively.

Bloody hell, Craig and Al agreeing on something. Is this a first?  :D
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10197 on: October 3, 2022, 08:43:00 pm »
Yeah remember him popping up there a couple of times, is that him as the furthest forward in the screenshot, or is that Salah?

In that shot he's the furthest back, LCM basically

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10198 on: October 3, 2022, 08:44:01 pm »
In that shot he's the furthest back, LCM basically

Yeah thought so, that makes more sense.  He might've had to come across to help out.

Or he's just gone wandering.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10199 on: October 3, 2022, 08:44:11 pm »
Bloody hell, Craig and Al agreeing on something. Is this a first?  :D

I know, I felt the earth tremble a bit when I hit post.