Author Topic: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan  (Read 4215 times)

Offline redrockydennis

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wasn't sure where to post this:

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/04/09/labour-mp-demands-truth-about-toxic-liverpool-fc-loan-92534-26206401/

A LABOUR MP last night demanded to know if the crippling debt saddled on Liverpool FC by its American owners was now seen as “toxic” – and being underwritten by the taxpayer.

The huge £237m debt is owed to goverment-owned RBS but ministers are refusing to confirm claims that Tom Hicks and George Gillett’s loans has been included in the asset protection scheme (APS).

Jim Cousins, a Labour backbencher, described the government’s claim that disclosure would be unlawful as nonsense – insisting details had been revealed in relation to other loans.

And he said the body set up to administer the APS should – if the loan was insured and it judged taxpayer funds to be at risk – demand new owners be installed at Liverpool.

Taking up concerns of Liverpool FC fans, Mr Cousins, a member of the Treasury select committee, said: “Ministers must come clean on whether this loan to Liverpool Football Club has been protected by the taxpayer.

“If it has, then the asset protection agency has a duty to ensure the taxpayer gets its money back – which means deciding whether it has been put at risk by bad management.”

Mr Cousins urged Anfield supporters – many of whom had urged him to find out the truth – to keep campaigning for the lid to be lifted on the controversial loan.

The row opens up a new front in the campaign by a group of Labour MPs, led by Walton’s Peter Kilfoyle, to use the part-nationalisation of RBS to put pressure on Hicks and Gillett.

The government – which took a 60% stake in the busted bank in October 2008 – was urged to pull the plug on the two Americans, forcing the pair to sell the club they took over in February 2007.

Last year, the Treasury announced it would insure £585bn of “toxic assets” for RBS and HBOS, a second bailed-out bank. By underwriting the loans, it hoped to kick-start lending to businesses, which dried up after the financial crisis.

Hicks and Gillett have until July 24 to repay the remaining £237m borrowed from RBS and American investment bank Wachovia, which they have leveraged against the club's assets.

Despite pledges to the contrary, the owners set a total of £350m worth of debt against the Anfield club which was only £44m in the red when David Moores sold out.

Mr Cousins, the Newcastle Central MP, tabled a parliamentary question after his select committee was contacted by many Liverpool fans eager to know if the loan was considered “toxic”.

In reply, treasury minister Sarah McCarthy-Fry said: “This information is received via the Financial Services Authority and relates to the business affairs of individual customers and counterparties.

“Disclosure of such information is restricted by domestic and European law and there are no provisions which would permit disclosure in this case.”

But Mr Cousins said some details of loans insured under the APS had been released – but using such opaque language it was difficult to identify exactly who the borrower was.

Various supporters’ groups have tried to put pressure on the RBS to call in the Hicks and Gillett loan to force the Americans out of the club. But each deadline so far has been met by the Americans refinancing what is owed.
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Offline SMD

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #1 on: April 9, 2010, 08:36:25 am »
Fucking hell, you couldn't make this shit up.
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Offline rocco

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #2 on: April 9, 2010, 08:51:03 am »
If the loan was NOW TOXIC ...... what effect on the club would it have ...

Offline redmen77

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #3 on: April 9, 2010, 08:57:27 am »
If the loan was NOW TOXIC ...... what effect on the club would it have ...
It wouldn't. The toxic label is what the banks consider to be at risk of non-payment and so is insured by the treasury (i.e. payments would be covered by them) should they be defaulted on.

Offline danwms

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #4 on: April 9, 2010, 09:17:38 am »
at least its more negative press against them.

Offline rocco

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #5 on: April 9, 2010, 09:25:37 am »
It wouldn't. The toxic label is what the banks consider to be at risk of non-payment and so is insured by the treasury (i.e. payments would be covered by them) should they be defaulted on.

Theres been a lot of toxic loans over here  and it seems the loan is wrote of and the company's owners  walk away from the loan owning nothing to the banks and it sems they still own the company ? or does the bank own it ?...
Wouldn't be surprised if this was the reason they were both in London yesterday ..

Probable somebody on here could explain could the Yanks have the loan wiped off and own the club debt free because if it was a toxic loan or would the banks own us ?
« Last Edit: April 9, 2010, 09:28:33 am by rocco »

Offline xerxes1

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #6 on: April 9, 2010, 09:38:57 am »
A nothing story, apart from the plus of more adverse publicity for G&H.

Firstly, what does he mean by toxic? It appears that the debt is around £237m. If the debt were called in, and the club sold by the bank, few would argue that the club would fetch less than that .(Rhone's offer of 40% for £100m equals £250m at 100%) So the taxpayer is underwriting no realistic prospect of loss.

On the one hand any G&H smear is a good smear. On the other this is just tribal rabble rousing for the ill-informed.
« Last Edit: April 9, 2010, 09:40:28 am by xerxes1 »
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Offline redmen77

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #7 on: April 9, 2010, 09:51:56 am »
A nothing story, apart from the plus of more adverse publicity for G&H.

Firstly, what does he mean by toxic? It appears that the debt is around £237m. If the debt were called in, and the club sold by the bank, few would argue that the club would fetch less than that .(Rhone's offer of 40% for £100m equals £250m at 100%) So the taxpayer is underwriting no realistic prospect of loss.

On the one hand any G&H smear is a good smear. On the other this is just tribal rabble rousing for the ill-informed.
Or another word could be electioneering!

Offline No666

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #8 on: April 9, 2010, 10:24:34 am »
It's excellent pressure/publicity, because it puts RBS and their decision-making in relation to LFC in the spotlight.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #9 on: April 9, 2010, 12:16:39 pm »
Election coming up isnt it?!

Offline Lenstar

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #10 on: April 9, 2010, 12:18:52 pm »
Election coming up isnt it?!

exactly

Offline Simon C

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #11 on: April 9, 2010, 12:24:48 pm »
Last year, the Treasury announced it would insure £585bn of “toxic assets” for RBS and HBOS, a second bailed-out bank. By underwriting the loans, it hoped to kick-start lending to businesses, which dried up after the financial crisis.
Based on this statement I can't how the loan isn't protected.

Offline will2003

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #12 on: April 9, 2010, 12:44:24 pm »
Who cares if they are electionering, bad press against the Yanks, more pressure on them and the banks, and if they want to use us to win an election, SOS and LFC supports should use them. We should be on their cases while they want to use us and see if we cant force them into some kind of action rather than spouting they arent happy with the debt! If they know there are votes in this they will push harder for a resolve.

I think the toxic debt refers to all the bad debit the bank underwrote before the banking crisis when they shouldn't have rather than being specific about our debt. Our debt falls under that banner as the banks shouldn't have underwritten such a risky business plan but at the time everyone was doing it. What this MP is saying is that we the public paid billions in tax payers money to underwrite all the toxic loans in the UK to stop banks from going bust and the economy going down the toilet hence we part own the banks. As we now part own RBS we the public have the right to know about the loans and what RBS plan to do about it.

« Last Edit: April 9, 2010, 12:45:57 pm by will2003 »
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Offline xerxes1

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #13 on: April 9, 2010, 04:23:54 pm »
Wills, firstly we have no right to know. Secondly, what should be done about a debt which as far as we are aware is being serviced and currently sits at a value slightly under what the bank would raise from a forced sale? Where is the risk to the bank? Thirdly toxix debt refers explcitly to debt outstanding after assets have been liquidated.
« Last Edit: April 9, 2010, 04:26:35 pm by xerxes1 »
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Offline Lord Roger Hunt

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #14 on: April 9, 2010, 10:08:27 pm »
Wills, firstly we have no right to know. Secondly, what should be done about a debt which as far as we are aware is being serviced and currently sits at a value slightly under what the bank would raise from a forced sale? Where is the risk to the bank? Thirdly toxix debt refers explcitly to debt outstanding after assets have been liquidated.

Ah, but Xerxes, this is politics - an imprecise science, where 'facts' and 'truth' have their own meaning. To dismiss this initiative would be stupid beyond belief, however, sadly,  I fear that we've left it too late.   
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Offline xerxes1

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #15 on: April 9, 2010, 11:08:19 pm »
Ah, but Xerxes, this is politics - an imprecise science, where 'facts' and 'truth' have their own meaning. To dismiss this initiative would be stupid beyond belief, however, sadly,  I fear that we've left it too late.   

Lord Roger, you are wrong.The first rule of successful political camapaigning is to take on a campaign that you have already won. Taking on something that you have already lost is suicide.
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Offline TSC

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2010, 01:36:59 am »
Lord Roger, you are wrong.The first rule of successful political camapaigning is to take on a campaign that you have already won. Taking on something that you have already lost is suicide.

Or in between. Taking on something 'popular' will do.  We'll take any help/advantage thanks.  Because we need all the help we can get.

Offline Lord Roger Hunt

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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2010, 06:16:03 pm »
Or in between. Taking on something 'popular' will do.  We'll take any help/advantage thanks.  Because we need all the help we can get.

Agreed. It's only a little but every bit helps...the impact of political pressure, particularly if it became a popular cause, can be immense and move seemingly immovable objects.  People like Xerxes would say, possibly rightly, that politics has no role to play in the LFC case - but there are many examples of how concerted political lobbying has achieved the apparently unachievable. 

Fundementally, anything that hints that something shady has gone on with the LFC deal helps our cause but the timing is wrong, sadly. 

Due to lack of information, the other problem is we don't know what our 'cause' should be.....which is a bit tricky.... :(

« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 10:10:47 am by Lord Roger Hunt »
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Re: Labour MP demands truth about ‘toxic’ Liverpool FC loan
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2010, 02:15:12 pm »
Looks like this ship has sailed anyway. Barclays didn't take any of the Government's money.
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