Topic: Man City - cheating bastards rumbled

[Banquo's Ghost]

I have to sort of wonder if Abu Dhabi have been utterly stupid or stupendously arrogant.

...

Have they acted out of absolute stupidity, arrogance, or both?
They came in looking to enhance their reputation but, instead, all they have done is taint it even further. To top it off, if they lie and cheat their way through a dirty legal battle they'll look yet worse still. They'll expose themselves as the dirty, disgusting bullies they really are.

They are owned by tyrants. Tyrants who have never been told 'no, you can't' by their flunkies. So it's arrogance.

One thing that they will have to consider - should they be getting objective legal advice (but see above) - is that any court case enables a thing called 'disclosure'. In other words, if they try to defend themselves on the basis that the emails and documents are wrong, UEFA's lawyers can subpoena all their financial records under threat of contempt of court. "You say we're wrong - show us the documentation you have so far refused to provide and prove us wrong".

That is a scenario I don't think the despicable, blood-soaked owners want to contemplate.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

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[TepidT2O]

Lots of city fans of social media are convinced the emails will be inadmissible.

Firstly (and importantly) they are wrong.

Secondly, even if hey were, you could then force city it have a forensic review of their emissions, servers.... which we all know would show them to be real...

And if the argument is that they shouldn’t be admissible .... that’s not a great defence really is it?

[Greyfox]

That ex-player, missed his name ... 'City a massive, massive club etc ... do the two years ban and come back and win it three times in a row. That's what I'd do.'

 

This twat has forgotten that there might be the current European Champions, World Club Champions and prospective Premier League Champions knocking about.

Fact is that without our massive effort this season, questions would not have been asked...thank Christ for LFC Klopp and this seasons Redmen, Saviours of European Football

[classycarra]

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I love you

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

Imagine iof they do dock them points starting next year and take their title from last year

Unbearable fucking Champions 3 years on the fucking bounce

[jillcwhomever]

Lots of city fans of social media are convinced the emails will be inadmissible.

Firstly (and importantly) they are wrong.

Secondly, even if hey were, you could then force city it have a forensic review of their emissions, servers.... which we all know would show them to be real...

And if the argument is that they shouldn’t be admissible .... that’s not a great defence really is it?

As David Conn pointed out earlier on for all their arrogance in fighting this "conspiracy" they have never proved that any of it is wrong.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

I love you

[vagabond]

Aside from drugs and match fixing, surely lying about finances is as serious as it gets for a football club?

Does it? The only reason they lied is because of FFP. Otherwise they would have been open like Abramovitch was. I agree that they broke a rule, and that this is a serious legal matter. I just don't see how it also becomes a serious moral matter. I can see how drugs and match fixing bear directly on the results of matches. Those seem like moral issues. But spending more than the limit that UEFA decided to impose to protect the rich clubs? Sure, it's illegal, but it just doesn't seem as serious. But perhaps I have an idiosyncratic view on this.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Inject all the blue moon in my veins.

They've surpassed the Bitters in delusion.

[Red Beret]

This is the interesting bit, for me. What's the point of Manchester City if it brings bad publicity? But I have it the other way: that he'll tough it out with lawyers and if he - eventually - loses, retire squealing about unfairness etc. Too much ego to simply say sorry and accept an even playing field going forwards.

I agree.  He can't retire without putting up a fight.  He will lose face back home otherwise.

[TepidT2O]

What ever happens...

This is just fucking  hilarious

[Banquo's Ghost]

I was under the impression that one of the fundamental rules of taking part in UEFA/FIFA events was that you had to agree not to go tho the courts for sporting issues.


CAS therefore became the last resort.

Does anyone know if this is correct?

I believe this is the agreement, but under EU law you cannot sign away fundamental rights. Abu Dhabi FC could break the agreement.

If they go to court however, they will be subject to court ordered subpoena and UEFA can demand their full financial disclosure and records.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Except it isn't Tory.

We are the perfect example of a well run Club benefiting from FFP. Leicester are another Club who has benefited from FFP.

Run the Club properly, recruit properly, stop throwing stupid money at players and you will prosper. How can people possibly complain about FFP creating a closed shop when the likes of Leicester, Sheffield United and Wolves are usurping the likes of United and Chelsea.

The thing is, it's perfectly acceptable to have an issue with FFP. I actually see their argument. It does limit lesser clubs making it to the top. But, if you have an issue with it, it's something you have to fight whilst abiding to it. Because rules are the rules. What you don't do is intentionally cook the books to try and bypass it.

It's like me getting caught speeding in a 30mph zone because I'm of the belief that it should be a 40mph zone. I don't get off with it! But if I drive 30mph whilst holding some protests maybe I could incite change.

[Son of Spion]

I won't cry a single tear if they are banned because of where their money originates but to be honest, FFP might be the most Tory thing in the sport. All the currently rich clubs are trying to make sure it's almost impossible for any team to ever break in to the clique at the top end of the sport. I have no sympathy whatsoever for Man City because their owners are absolute c*nts, but FFP needs abolishing.

I have to disagree there. As I understand it, FFP is about clubs living within their means and spending money generated legitimately via the sport itself. That's definitely not a 'Tory' thing. I'd say what Abu Dhabi are doing is very Trumpian and Tory.

If the likes of Abu Dhabi get their way they can just walk in, spend billions of pounds (chicken feed to them) and purchase all the top players, inflate transfer fees out of the reach of everyone else, basically purchase trophies off the peg and suffocate all competition in time. They are a predator and a parasite all at the same time. They are leeching off the prestige of the Premier League and the UEFA Champions League in order to enhance their own standing and reputation whilst cheating the rules of those competitions. If they get their way they will eventually overpower everyone else simply because they can, and the once prestigious tournaments will be destroyed and devalued. They will be the plaything of a few vanity clubs like this lot and PSG.

Facts are, the established big clubs got there organically, by building and growing through on-field success and the commercial benefits that brings. What the likes of Abu Dhabi and Qatar are doing is leeching off those clubs in order to enrich themselves before the parasite goes on to kill the host. The 'clique' are there by merit. They are not a clique at all, they have earned the right to be where they are. Those clubs have served their time and are there on merit. The likes of Abu Dhabi think they can simply turn up and throw money at people and get a seat at the table without actually earning it.

[classycarra]

Does it? The only reason they lied is because of FFP. Otherwise they would have been open like Abramovitch was. I agree that they broke a rule, and that this is a serious legal matter. I just don't see how it also becomes a serious moral matter. I can see how drugs and match fixing bear directly on the results of matches. Those seem like moral issues. But spending more than the limit that UEFA decided to impose to protect the rich clubs? Sure, it's illegal, but it just doesn't seem as serious. But perhaps I have an idiosyncratic view on this.

Maybe it's an issue with imagination?

You don't see how having inflated resources, above the limits other clubs not punished by UEFA are abiding by, could have a bearing on the result of a match?

If a team's first choice left back gets an injury, would you benefit from being able to bring on a bench player that cost almost a record fee for a defender over bringing on an Aly Cissoko you've got in on loan?

[jillcwhomever]

I believe this is the agreement, but under EU law you cannot sign away fundamental rights. Abu Dhabi FC could break the agreement.

If they go to court however, they will be subject to court ordered subpoena and UEFA can demand their full financial disclosure and records.

Which is clearly the one thing they won't want the world to see, as this is about whitewashing their grubby regime.

[Kekule]

Ex Man City player on 5live - not a problem, just dominate domestically for two years and then go for CL again.

Well, that's alright then.

Yep, it’s a good job they’ve got a load of players who are there for the prestige of representing such a famous, well supported club, and not a bunch nof mercenaries who’ll be agitating for moves if they can’t play in the Champions League.

Oh, wait.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

What ever happens...

This is just fucking  hilarious

Yup they're all going to self combust

[Gerry Attrick]

Except it isn't Tory.

We are the perfect example of a well run Club benefiting from FFP. Leicester are another Club who has benefited from FFP.

Run the Club properly, recruit properly, stop throwing stupid money at players and you will prosper. How can people possibly complain about FFP creating a closed shop when the likes of Leicester, Sheffield United and Wolves are usurping the likes of United and Chelsea.

We have been high up on the Deloitte money list for absolutely donkeys, even before we started commercialising everything and expanding the stadium. That's because we have decades of fandom built up and can cash it in to make prizes. For any club that didn't have those things before FFP came in it is almost impossible to crack the top of the game.

Just look at the clubs that are most upset about this; teams that have been the most successful for as long as we've had colour tellies and they're trying everything to make it almost impossible for a new club to join the clique. It does not get more Tory than that. The idea of a club growing organically from nothing to being a regular contender at the top end of the sport is the biggest load of pie in the sky bollocks imaginable. FFP has been a thing for a while now and have you seen any clubs that you wouldn't have considered part of the European 'elite' beforehand join? No. Because it will not happen.

I think people are being slightly blinkered by their shear hatred of Man City and want UEFA to suffocate them and won't even acknowledge that it completely eliminates any social mobility in football.

[Henry Kissinger]

La Liga’s president, Javier Tebas , has praised Uefa for taking action against City. Tebas, who has been critical of City’s spending in the past, is happy to see the European governing body use its clout.

“Uefa is finally taking decisive action,” he tweeted. “Enforcing the rules of financial fair play and punishing financial doping is essential for the future of football. For years we have been calling for severe action against Manchester City... we finally have a good example of action and hope to see more. Better late than never.”

[Gili Gulu]

Oh please Real knock them out.
I might never stop laughing if they do.

Few dodgy decisions from the Uefa appointed officials please. Preferably a VAR away goal disallowed.

[vagabond]

Maybe it's an issue with imagination?

You don't see how having inflated resources, above the limits other clubs not punished by UEFA are abiding by, could have a bearing on the result of a match?

If a team's first choice left back gets an injury, would you benefit from being able to bring on a bench player that cost almost a record fee for a defender over bringing on an Aly Cissoko you've got in on loan?

Yeah this is right, but Man U have similar resources. I get that the reply here will be that Man U earned their money. But I just can't get myself upset about who earns how much and when. Unless you have an American style salary cap you will always have a distinction between the rich and the poor. I get that FFP was brought in as a commitment to stop clubs from overspending beyond their means, but is there really a danger of their owners running out of money and having to liquidate the club?

Again, I completely agree that it's a rule everyone is bound by and they should face legal consequences. But to my mind it's purely a legal matter.

[Red Beret]

I believe this is the agreement, but under EU law you cannot sign away fundamental rights. Abu Dhabi FC could break the agreement.

If they go to court however, they will be subject to court ordered subpoena and UEFA can demand their full financial disclosure and records.

So it's basically a gentleman's agreement to abide by the rules, but if they say "stuff it" and go to court then the gloves come off.  Lovely

[DangerScouse]

Yeah this is right, but Man U have similar resources. I get that the reply here will be that Man U earned their money. But I just can't get myself upset about who earns how much and when. Unless you have an American style salary cap you will always have a distinction between the rich and the poor. I get that FFP was brought in as a commitment to stop clubs from overspending beyond their means, but is there really a danger of their owners running out of money and having to liquidate the club?

Again, I completely agree that it's a rule everyone is bound by and they should face legal consequences. But to my mind it's purely a legal matter.

City largely didn't earn that money though. There's a big difference.

[stockdam]

Will they get any cups and leagues they have won? If so we won the league last year.

[Son of Spion]

We have been high up on the Deloitte money list for absolutely donkeys, even before we started commercialising everything and expanding the stadium. That's because we have decades of fandom built up and can cash it in to make prizes. For any club that didn't have those things before FFP came in it is almost impossible to crack the top of the game.

Just look at the clubs that are most upset about this; teams that have been the most successful for as long as we've had colour tellies and they're trying everything to make it almost impossible for a new club to join the clique. It does not get more Tory than that. The idea of a club growing organically from nothing to being a regular contender at the top end of the sport is the biggest load of pie in the sky bollocks imaginable. FFP has been a thing for a while now and have you seen any clubs that you wouldn't have considered part of the European 'elite' beforehand join? No. Because it will not happen.

I think people are being slightly blinkered by their shear hatred of Man City and want UEFA to suffocate them and won't even acknowledge that it completely eliminates any social mobility in football.

Don't you think it's a bit ironic that this shower of shite are moaning about a rich, established elite who got there on merit and within the rules, yet they want to be free to discard the rules so they become the ultra-rich elite themselves which then becomes a closed shop where they suffocate all other competition?

It's the ultimate in Tory to believe that the richest person should always have the best things and should be able to get them without having to follow any rules.

[stockdam]

Will Basil leave as there will be bugger all for them to play for.

Will The Victims feel even bigger victims?

Will half of their players want to play for us now?

[classycarra]

We have been high up on the Deloitte money list for absolutely donkeys, even before we started commercialising everything and expanding the stadium. That's because we have decades of fandom built up and can cash it in to make prizes. For any club that didn't have those things before FFP came in it is almost impossible to crack the top of the game.

Just look at the clubs that are most upset about this; teams that have been the most successful for as long as we've had colour tellies and they're trying everything to make it almost impossible for a new club to join the clique. It does not get more Tory than that. The idea of a club growing organically from nothing to being a regular contender at the top end of the sport is the biggest load of pie in the sky bollocks imaginable. FFP has been a thing for a while now and have you seen any clubs that you wouldn't have considered part of the European 'elite' beforehand join? No. Because it will not happen.

I think people are being slightly blinkered by their shear hatred of Man City and want UEFA to suffocate them and won't even acknowledge that it completely eliminates any social mobility in football.

I agree with most of what you say, and the principle behind it. But the failure to improve the social mobility of football isn't on FFP - it's just an insufficient attempt. The lack of legislation against/to hinder the established clubs like us (as of recently) but more so Madrid, United, Bayern Barca and Juve is the real hindrance on mobility of clubs.

FFP could be useful in this battle, without being Tory/protectionist, if it sat among other legislation - it could protect clubs like Newcastle Aston Villa (and David Moores owned LFC) from Chelsea having half a billion invested and leaving us in their wake in 2004. Likewise Everton and Villa who finished above City in 2008 before they got the Abu Dhabi cash injection and have never been close since.

[classycarra]

Yeah this is right, but Man U have similar resources. I get that the reply here will be that Man U earned their money. But I just can't get myself upset about who earns how much and when. Unless you have an American style salary cap you will always have a distinction between the rich and the poor. I get that FFP was brought in as a commitment to stop clubs from overspending beyond their means, but is there really a danger of their owners running out of money and having to liquidate the club?

Again, I completely agree that it's a rule everyone is bound by and they should face legal consequences. But to my mind it's purely a legal matter.

Fair enough mate. On this bit in bold though, their previous owner (who ruled Thailand) did exactly that I think.

[Ghost Town]

And forced to keep and play John Stones in perpetuity.

I believe cruel and unusual punishment is against UN rules

[Gerry Attrick]

Don't you think it's a bit ironic that this shower of shite are moaning about a rich, established elite who got there on merit and within the rules, yet they want to be free to discard the rules so they become the ultra-rich elite themselves which then becomes a closed shop where they suffocate all other competition?

It's the ultimate in Tory to believe that the richest person should always have the best things and should be able to get them without having to follow any rules.

The rich, established elite who are there on merit now mostly got there because at one time they were the teams spending the massive sums of money to build stadiums and bring star players when there were no rules. That's my point, there's been an arbitrary cut off point where it was okay to do that in the past and make yourself successful but now no clubs are allowed to do that and hurt them. It's hypocritical beyond belief. Horrible concept.

[So… Howard Philips]

Does it? The only reason they lied is because of FFP. Otherwise they would have been open like Abramovitch was. I agree that they broke a rule, and that this is a serious legal matter. I just don't see how it also becomes a serious moral matter. I can see how drugs and match fixing bear directly on the results of matches. Those seem like moral issues. But spending more than the limit that UEFA decided to impose to protect the rich clubs? Sure, it's illegal, but it just doesn't seem as serious. But perhaps I have an idiosyncratic view on this.

What's the difference between paying an opposition player to fix a match and making illegal payments to obtain better players to win matches for you?

[Ghost Town]

How does your glass stay on the table? 

It's an LFC glass, it's bound to be on top of a table

[WhereAngelsPlay]

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

I won't cry a single tear if they are banned because of where their money originates but to be honest, FFP might be the most Tory thing in the sport. All the currently rich clubs are trying to make sure it's almost impossible for any team to ever break in to the clique at the top end of the sport. I have no sympathy whatsoever for Man City because their owners are absolute c*nts, but FFP needs abolishing.

It's not perfect, but without it, the sport becomes a playground for sportwashing, and a new cartel will arise, consisting of clubs owned by super-rich oil states and the like. Any club at all could become a vehicle for a regime, irrespective of their history, fanbase and achievements. Man City have actually been destroyed as a meaningful entity by Abu Dhabi's involvement. That's the last thing we should want to see happening in football. Tying spending to income is a fairly sound idea, and it's not like the PL has been uncompetitive. Leicester snuck through and won the league. Spurs regularly make top 4 and a CL final. Yes, it's a small clique at the top. Sports have elites. Top level sport is like that. But at least it's been earned, over decades, through hard work and clever planning.

Do you want to see a new top 4 of Oil clubs? Because without some kind of restraining rules, that is likely what would happen.

[vagabond]

City largely didn't earn that money though. There's a big difference.

Yes, agreed, that's a legal problem for them, given the rules of the competition.
But their owners giving them money to compete doesn't make them immoral. It just makes them crooks.
Anyway, I don't need to keep making the same point. Let's just get back to laughing about it.

[12C]

From the asylum.

So 5 whistles per fan then? 

Plastique?

[Lush is the best medicine...]

The rich, established elite who are there on merit now mostly got there because at one time they were the teams spending the massive sums of money to build stadiums and bring star players when there were no rules. That's my point, there's been an arbitrary cut off point where it was okay to do that in the past and make yourself successful but now no clubs are allowed to do that and hurt them. It's hypocritical beyond belief. Horrible concept.

except back then you couldn’t pull up the drawbridge like city have, eg forest and Ipswich in the 70s/80s

[Peabee]

Some talk that city are going to swerve CAS and go to court....apparently going to challenge the legality of FFP.

But I thought you couldn’t take football courses to court?

Is that not right?

It’s a commercial competition run by uefa. They can set rules and city committed to abiding by those rules. I’m not sure what their angle is here. Unless it’s just about throwing shit at uefa, so they can claim they’re victims while serving their ban.