Topic: Re-branding of London overground routes; cultural or culture war?

[thaddeus]

London Overground: New names for its six lines revealed

The new names of London's six Overground lines have been revealed, significantly changing the look of the famous Tube map.

Last August, Transport for London (TfL) announced it wanted to give the routes distinct identities to make it easier for passengers to navigate the network.

The services will become known as the Lioness line, the Mildmay line, the Windrush line, the Weaver line, the Suffragette line and the Liberty line.

...

The six lines on the Overground - which is currently only marked with one colour, and is fondly nicknamed by some as the Ginger line - are to be given the following names and colours:

- The Lioness line: Euston to Watford Junction - Running through Wembley, the name is to honour the achievements of the England women's football team. On the map it will be marked with yellow parallel lines
- The Mildmay line: Stratford to Richmond/Clapham Junction - It has been named after the small charitable hospital in Shoreditch, which played an important role during the HIV/Aids crisis in the 1980s. On the map it will be marked with blue parallel lines
- The Windrush line: Highbury & Islington to Clapham Junction/New Cross/Crystal Palace/West Croydon - Running through several areas with strong ties to Caribbean communities, including Dalston Junction, Peckham Rye and West Croydon, it has been named to honour the Windrush community. On the map it will be marked with red parallel lines
- The Weaver line: Liverpool Street to Cheshunt/Enfield Town/Chingford - With stops including Liverpool Street, Spitalfields, Bethnal Green and Hackney, the route travels through several areas of London known for their importance in the textile trade. On the map it will be marked with maroon parallel lines
- The Suffragette line: Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside - Named to celebrate how London's East End working-class community fought for women's rights, the line also runs to Barking, home of the longest-surviving suffragette, Annie Huggett, who died aged 103. On the map it will be marked with green parallel lines
- The Liberty line: Romford to Upminster - According to TfL, it is named "to reference the historical independence of the people of the borough of Havering", through which it runs, as well as the celebrating "a defining feature of London". On the map it will be marked with grey parallel lines

Ignoring the merit of it - adding five more colours to the spaghetti to "simplify the map" - I'm in two minds about the naming conventions.

On one hand it's nice that they have names which have some connection with London and Londoners.  It's certainly better than having corporately sponsored lines and some of the reasoning behind them is very compelling (I had previously never heard of the Mildmay charitable hospital).

On the other it feels like it's trying a bit too hard and is sure to be used as a stick to beat Sadiq Khan (/Labour) with.  Just as I can't stand the Tories and their endless culture wars I'd also prefer that the progressive parties didn't seemingly go out of their way to provoke the other side.  The whole thing feels like a back-and-forth of headline grabbers whilst greedy bastards loot the country in plain sight.

Context; I'm a 40-something white man not living in London.  I don't pretend to have any insight into the thoughts of younger folks and even less so the hugely diverse urbanites living in London.

[classycarra]

Really scraped the barrel with Lioness! Very zeitgeisty, guess we can just be thankful this wasn't a few years ago otherwise they might have gone with Tubey McTubeyFace

[Red Beret]

I appreciate the sentiment, but those names hardly trip off the tongue, do they?

I think if you're going to label your lines, use simple, easy to remember words. London gets huge numbers of tourists, and these names will resonate only with very few of them.

[redbyrdz]

Meh. Nice to have have some of those people remembered, after decades / centuries of willful ignorance. But in terms of making it easier to navigate, I find lines named with numbers or colours and destinations much easier to remember.

I guess if you look at the whole line, the names are designed to have some sort of reference to a place on it. I can, for example, quite easily remember that "the Lioness line" goes past Wembley. But what if I'm not going thay way? If I'm only using that line for a couple of stops nowhere near Wembley, it doesn't make it much easier to remember.

I'd find it much easier to navigate if the line had the name of the colour on the map, eg "take the green line towards..." than any of those names.

[Crosby Nick]

I must be a bit colour blind because I always thought the Central Line was orange but everyone else says it’s red.

The classic London Underground map was a great bit of design. Must be harder to accommodate all the other changes in more modern times like the DLR, the Elizabeth Line and these overground lines they now show. I’ve always thought of them as quite separate but makes sense to out it all on the one map.

In terms of the names, no strong preference either way. You have to call them something.

[classycarra]

[Nobby Reserve]

I'll admit that, across all areas of life, there are some ideas/policies that I don't actually agree with or think are very good.

But I support them because I know it will have certain groups of shitbags hopping mad. The gammons, the religious puritans, racists, Daily Heil readers, etc (yeah, there's lots of crossovers!)

[Henry Gale]

What a crock of shit 

[killer-heels]

The Suffragette and Lioness line names are ridiculous.

[filopastry]

To be honest its not a bad idea to name them as just having "The Overground" even though it is lots of different lines can make communication a bit tricky.

The names are a bit shit though, but then again its probably an era now where any name will annoy someone

[RedDeadRejection]

Who honestly cares?

[Crosby Nick]

[Boston always unofficial]

Did these lines have names before this change? Didn't say on the news,it does seem pointless.They did it in Boston with one of the stations in the Hood went from Dudley to Nubian and they're going after Faneuil Hall,ya hate to say it "PC gone mad'!!

[Circa1892]

Struggle to think of anything I'd find less interesting. Far more interested in the fact there's fuck all working transport infrastructure in major northern cities.

Lionness' line is fucking stupid though.

[classycarra]

Did these lines have names before this change? Didn't say on the news,it does seem pointless.They did it in Boston with one of the stations in the Hood went from Dudley to Nubian and they're going after Faneuil Hall,ya hate to say it "PC gone mad'!!

No, just "Overground".
 
Easily understood though, as they all run between a fixed line with pretty constant end-points (eg from Highbury & Islington  -to->  Crystal Palace)

[Nobby Reserve]

No, just "Overground".
 
Easily understood though, as they all run between a fixed line with pretty constant end-points (eg from Highbury & Islington  -to->  Crystal Palace)

Call it the OFC line

[Party Phil]

The Suffragette and Lioness line names are ridiculous.

Those two are absolutely cringeworthy IMHO, the rest seem as good as any other name, I suppose.

[classycarra]

Call it the OFC line

haha

but no, I still hate him too much!

Those two are absolutely cringeworthy IMHO, the rest seem as good as any other name, I suppose.

Yeah think that's me too.

Will say - with the caveat I don't have Caribbean heritage - I find the constant Windrush Windrush post-scandal stuff all a bit vacuous. As far as I know, the conclusions and redress from the scandal isn't even close to finished for many. Seeing state-affiliated actors using the name as a form of image laundering irks me a bit. (I'm not talking about celebrating the Windrush generation of course - very in favour of that)

[redbyrdz]

haha

but no, I still hate him too much!
Yeah think that's me too.

Will say - with the caveat I don't have Caribbean heritage - I find the constant Windrush Windrush post-scandal stuff all a bit vacuous. As far as I know, the conclusions and redress from the scandal isn't even close to finished for many. Seeing state-affiliated actors using the name as a form of image laundering irks me a bit. (I'm not talking about celebrating the Windrush generation of course - very in favour of that)

Was wondering if "Windrush" wasn't a bit insensitive, in that some people might still be a bit traumatised, and might not want to be reminded of decades of struggle all the time.

[Jiminy Cricket]

The Suffragette and Lioness line names are ridiculous.

Those two are absolutely cringeworthy IMHO, the rest seem as good as any other name, I suppose.

Yeah think that's me too.

Alternate suggestion?

[west_london_red]

Was wondering if "Windrush" wasn't a bit insensitive, in that some people might still be a bit traumatised, and might not want to be reminded of decades of struggle all the time.

I think Windrush is about the only name I’d keep but the whole thing is a bit too ‘woke’ for me and I’m a pretty liberal, progressive person.

[TepidT2O]

Alternate suggestion?

The Pankhurst line
The Mary Earps line
The Benjamin Zephaniah line

Just prefer names as they sound better.

[Jiminy Cricket]

The Pankhurst line
The Mary Earps line
The Benjamin Zephaniah line

Just prefer names as they sound better.

Ah. My comment was a poor attempt at a joke.

I have no great interest in this, but for what it worth, they all seem like better (sounding) suggestions.

[afc tukrish]

Alternate suggestion?

Suffraness and Liongettes?

[Schmidt]

It's like there's an ongoing competition for people to show how woke/anti-woke they are and it's all so cynical and awkward. I feel like it'd be difficult for anyone of any political leaning to say "suffragette line" out loud without physically cringing.

Not everything has to be a statement or a battle, just name them something simple and easy to say.

[Crosby Nick]

Suffraness and Liongettes?

Two very strong French cigarette brands.

[killer-heels]

Those two are absolutely cringeworthy IMHO, the rest seem as good as any other name, I suppose.

Yep the others are fine. Not sure about the Windrush one, but it isnt as ridiculous as those two.

[...]

The Suffragette and Lioness line names are ridiculous.

Agreed.

[kop306]

I think Windrush is about the only name I’d keep but the whole thing is a bit too ‘woke’ for me and I’m a pretty liberal, progressive person.

how have the changes gone down with the folks in london ?

[Studgotelli]

[BarryCrocker]

Does nothing to change the framed picture of this I have hanging in my apartment for the past 15 years.

[CornerFlag]

I literally couldn't give less of a shit if I tried.

Can we rename the City line the Liverpool Line, the Northern Line the Everton line and the Wirral line the Tranmere line?  Wouldn't really have to change the colours either...

[zero zero]

The Pankhurst line
The Mary Earps line
The Benjamin Zephaniah line

Just prefer names as they sound better.

Even worse. Ones from Manchester, ones from Nottingham and the other's from Birmingham.

[Jshooters]

Does nothing to change the framed picture of this I have hanging in my apartment for the past 15 years.

The interchange stations though…

[The North Bank]

Another one of those “is it April the 1st” oh it isn’t, move on.


Should be the
- wait all day line for no train line
-  cant afford to get on but can watch it go past line
-  never get a seat overcrowded like sardines line
-  give up your money or risk getting stabbed line

[TepidT2O]

Even worse. Ones from Manchester, ones from Nottingham and the other's from Birmingham.

It’s London. No one cares!

You get the idea though. 

[SP]

I rode the length of the Lioness today.

Naming the lines reduces the difference between the tube and overground trains - emphasising the integrated nature of the network. If you want to name them, they areas good a set of names as any.

[Party Phil]

I rode the length of the Lioness today.

Ooh, matron!

[Fortneef]

- the Overground needed splitting up.

- so the same money is going to spend redoing the posters and signs etc  regardless of what the lines are named.

- my slight cringe is overwhelmed by my joy at how much this annoys gammons.

- windrush line irie 

[Andy]

This is great banter, it really is!