Topic: Ultra Processed Foods

[thejbs]

I didn't know which forum this belonged in, so I went with this one because the role the media is playing in it.

I'm halfway through Ultra-Processed People: Why Do We All Eat Stuff That Isn’t Food … and Why Can’t We Stop? by Chris van Tulleken. It's an incredible book full of rational and scientific studies of food. I'm finding it more revelatory and scandalous than Fast Food Nation or Supersize Me.

Has anyone else read up on UPF? Without sounding conspiratorial, there seems to be an agenda among governments to avoid a push against it. Probably because it goes against the interest of big government backers.

[Machae]

Saw a documentary which detailed the lowest/highest life expectancy and associated illnesses related to processed food across the world. Some of these US Island territories did relatively well and were largely healthy until the large US manufacturers started making them dependant on cheap processed foods, sugars and by-products that massively shifted the health of the population into the red.

It's no wonder Government's are against it, theres probably a massive lobby group behind the scenes whispering into their ears

[Machae]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/dec/09/academy-nutrition-financial-ties-processed-food-companies-contributions

Revealed: group shaping US nutrition receives millions from big food industry

Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics has a record of quid pro quos with a range of food giants, documents show

[thejbs]

Reading about it, I’m happy that my diet is lower than average with regard to UPF, but also surprised at how processed some things I eat are. The studies are compelling and, if correct, show that public health advice is failing people - especially those with low incomes. The problem is, the food companies making the most processed food are subsequently the ones with the most money and clout.

[thejbs]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/dec/09/academy-nutrition-financial-ties-processed-food-companies-contributions

Revealed: group shaping US nutrition receives millions from big food industry

Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics has a record of quid pro quos with a range of food giants, documents show

This is touched on in the book, along with the food studies they fund which often don’t acknowledge conflicts of interest and are published widely by news media.

[thejbs]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/aug/27/ultra-processed-food-raises-risk-of-heart-attack-and-stroke-two-studies-show?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Ultra-processed food significantly raises the risk of high blood pressure, heart disease, heart attacks and strokes, according to two studies that one expert says should serve as a wake-up call for governments worldwide.

Global consumption of heavily processed items such as cereals, protein bars, fizzy drinks, ready meals and fast food has soared in recent years. In the UK and US, well over half the average diet now consists of ultra-processed food (UPF). For some, especially people who are younger, poorer or from disadvantaged areas, a diet comprising as much as 80% UPF is typical.

Stark new research adds to a growing body of evidence that experts say exposes a “tidal wave of harm” being caused directly by UPF. Two large studies presented at the world’s largest heart conference showed the devastating impact UPF is having on cardiovascular health.

[kavah]

I’ve got a sweet tooth and love the added palm oil, vegetable oil and sugar the food industry put in their offerings. It’s all highly addictive of course.
I’m doing a real food month in September with no UPF and I’m bricking it to be honest - cold Turkey time (I do like a bit of Turkey like).

[[new username under construction]]

It's pretty much like smoking, get it out of the house, go a few days without and you're done with it

[Red-Soldier]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/aug/27/ultra-processed-food-raises-risk-of-heart-attack-and-stroke-two-studies-show?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Ultra-processed food significantly raises the risk of high blood pressure, heart disease, heart attacks and strokes, according to two studies that one expert says should serve as a wake-up call for governments worldwide.

Global consumption of heavily processed items such as cereals, protein bars, fizzy drinks, ready meals and fast food has soared in recent years. In the UK and US, well over half the average diet now consists of ultra-processed food (UPF). For some, especially people who are younger, poorer or from disadvantaged areas, a diet comprising as much as 80% UPF is typical.

Stark new research adds to a growing body of evidence that experts say exposes a “tidal wave of harm” being caused directly by UPF. Two large studies presented at the world’s largest heart conference showed the devastating impact UPF is having on cardiovascular health.

Might have to get that book.

It's the same old story of big business lobbying governments, making huge amounts of cash, whilst screwing over the majority of the people - particularl;y the poor.

Same as the smoking industry, fossils fuels, air pollution/car industry, and any other big industry you happen to mention.

Until we change the system, stop the lobbying and backhanders, and governments start making policy in favour of people (and the planet), not business, nothing will ever change.

[redbyrdz]

I’ve got a sweet tooth and love the added palm oil, vegetable oil and sugar the food industry put in their offerings. It’s all highly addictive of course.
I’m doing a real food month in September with no UPF and I’m bricking it to be honest - cold Turkey time (I do like a bit of Turkey like).

Time to get good at baking.

[Phineus]

Interesting thread, just looked up the book and bought it will definitely give it a read.

I’m generally pretty decent with nutrition bar the odd binge but Coke Zero soda I probably drink way too much of.

Sugar in food is pretty much an ongoing epidemic just largely ignored.

[thejbs]

The book is brilliant. Well researched and sources for everything, and not at all preachy. It made me really think about what I eat. Myself and my wife love to cook and bake so we weren’t big upf eaters. Making bread (especially from sourdough) is so satisfying in both the process and flavour that I haven’t eaten upf bread at home in years.

Soft drinks and some sauces are the only upf I really have at home now.

[Nobby Reserve]

How do you categorise what is UPF?

Is there a scale of UPF-ness? Or just a line that's crossed?

[Red-Soldier]

How do you categorise what is UPF?

Is there a scale of UPF-ness? Or just a line that's crossed?

I wondered that myself.  Is there a set metric or definition?

Would be very helpful if people are to make healthy food choices.

[Indomitable_Carp]

How do you categorise what is UPF?

Is there a scale of UPF-ness? Or just a line that's crossed?

It's a good point, and I would like more detail.

What's most shocking about that article is that even stuff marketed as "healthy" apparently falls under UPF:

Speaking to reporters in Amsterdam, one of the researchers behind the first study, Anushriya Pant, of the University of Sydney, said many people were unaware that food they assume is healthy, such as shop-bought sandwiches, wraps, soups and low-fat yoghurts, were in fact UPF.

So it's not just your fizzy drinks, sweets, oven food, fast food, and microwave meals, but even stuff that otherwise healthy people might not think twice about. It sounds like pretty much anything processed on industrial scale to be longer-lasting or a significant deviation from the "natural" form.

[redbyrdz]

The book will have a good definition, but this is from wikipedia, and seems to come from the original research:

NOVA categorises foods into four categories:[10]

1. Unprocessed or minimally processed foods
2. Processed culinary ingredients
3. Processed foods
4. Ultra processed food and drink products

Processing as such is essential, and virtually all food is processed in some way.[11] The term ultra-processing refers to the processing of industrial ingredients derived from foods, for example by extruding, moulding, re-shaping, hydrogenation, and hydrolysis. Ultra-processed foods generally also include additives such as preservatives, sweeteners, sensory enhancers, colourants, flavours, and processing aids, but little or no whole food. Infant formula and medical food are also considered ultra-processed. However, food additives are not necessarily a marker of ultra-processed foods as the use of preservatives, for example antioxidant or nitrite, are permitted for category 3.

This is the paper they reference: https://www.fao.org/3/ca5644en/ca5644en.pdf

[redbyrdz]

Personally, I think about it this way - if I made this product at home, would I put the same ingredients into it? Would I follow the same steps? Some processing is obviously only possible with industry-type equipment, but not neccessarily "bad". For example, I wouldn't squish my own oat grains to make porridge oats, but I wouldn't consider that bad processing either.

I've come to the conclusion that foods that have been made in a more traditional way often contain less additives, and might be less processed. I've also gone back to eating more sugar, and less sweeteners. At least with sugar, you know what you're getting, how it affects the body, and what to do to deal with it (be active, brush your teeth).

[TepidT2O]

How do you categorise what is UPF?

Is there a scale of UPF-ness? Or just a line that's crossed?

There’s no consensus what so ever.  It’s quite a lot of pseudo science tabloid friendly guff.

It might end up having positive consequences, but it’s riddled with nonsense.

A piece of beef.  Fine
Mince it?  Not so good.
Shape it into a burger? Worse.
Put the burger in a box and sell it? Worst.

I mean, come on.

[Red-Soldier]

There’s no consensus what so ever.  It’s quite a lot of pseudo science tabloid friendly guff.

It might end up having positive consequences, but it’s riddled with nonsense.

A piece of beef.  Fine
Mince it?  Not so good.
Shape it into a burger? Worse.
Put the burger in a box and sell it? Worst.

I mean, come on.

I don't think that's quite true.

A burger from your local fast-food chain, will be very different to the one you make at home.

[TepidT2O]

I don't think that's quite true.

A burger from your local fast-food chain, will be very different to the one you make at home.

A burger you buy from your local farm shop won’t be. 
I don’t think it’s well thought out or scientifically helpful.  It may have the desired consequences I suppose

[redbyrdz]

There’s no consensus what so ever.  It’s quite a lot of pseudo science tabloid friendly guff.

It might end up having positive consequences, but it’s riddled with nonsense.

A piece of beef.  Fine
Mince it?  Not so good.
Shape it into a burger? Worse.
Put the burger in a box and sell it? Worst.

I mean, come on.

That is not what "ultra-processed" means. With the nova classification, the burger in your example would likely fall into group 1,  "minimally processed" food. An ultra-processed burger is one where the meat is first separated into protein and fat, those dried and lthen likely hydrogenated, other oils and fats added, some fillers, colouring and other additives added, and then new "meat" reconstituted and formed into burgers. That is very different to just grinding the meat up and forming burgers.
(As a side note,wiith regards to supposedly "healthy" foods, I'd class most meat substitutes as ultra-processed)

[killer-heels]

Its mad how many things come under this banner. If bread is in there, we dont stand a chance.

[Nobby Reserve]

Its mad how many things come under this banner. If bread is in there, we dont stand a chance.

I think the answer is 'depends on the bread'

[Red-Soldier]

Its mad how many things come under this banner. If bread is in there, we dont stand a chance.

Standard, supermarket bought bread, yes.  Home baked or bought from a Polsh, or Eastern European shop, no.

The bread I bake has about 5 ingredients in it and the ones that you can buy in Eastern European shops, have about 5 ingredients too.

You pick a loaf os bread in a British supermarket and see how much stuff is in it.

My European mates can't believe the shit that passes for bread, in this country.

[redbyrdz]

Standard, supermarket bought bread, yes.  Home baked or bought from a Polsh, or Eastern European shop, no.

The bread I bake has about 5 ingredients in it and the ones that you can buy in Eastern European shops, have about 5 ingredients too.

You pick a loaf os bread in a British supermarket and see how much stuff is in it.

My European mates can't believe the shit that passes for bread, in this country.

Water, flour, salt.

Ok, you should ferment some of it to sourdough, or the bread will be very flat. (Or yeast might be ok too sometimes.)

Also "flour" could be a mix of flours, for example rye and wheat, or oat. I also don't object to different types of seeds (linseed, sunflower, sesame etc). And some special bread could have fruit or nuts and maybe even some veg (potato, tomato, onion).

But things that don't belong in bread are fat and eggs, for example. And preservatives and softeners. Normal bread goes  stale. Also, "sourdough" doesn't mean it has to taste sour, so no need to add vinegar!

[Craig S]

What's most shocking about that article is that even stuff marketed as "healthy" apparently falls under UPF:

So it's not just your fizzy drinks, sweets, oven food, fast food, and microwave meals, but even stuff that otherwise healthy people might not think twice about. It sounds like pretty much anything processed on industrial scale to be longer-lasting or a significant deviation from the "natural" form.

This is where I don't think the classification of UPF is that helpful for "healthier" types of food (although I would not consider shop bought butties healthy) - but it would cover things like whey protein shakes, something like huel etc, wholemeal bread unless going to your local baker and having zero preservatives.

I don't think the automatic association of being UPF so therefore it must be bad, is necessarily correct. Re the study in the guardian - that finds those that eat a higher % of UPF have a higher risk of heart disease - a lot of UPFs are full of shit and preservatives, so those eating a higher % are bound to be putting more junk into their bodies. It is probably more indicative of them having a bad diet in general and stuffing their faces with trans fats, sugars, salt & calorie dense foods.

I personally think the nutritional value is far more important, than if it is UPF or not. The newspaper articles make it sound like the conclusion is UPF = bad, while in general that will be true, it will be because of the shite in the foods, rather than being UPF in itself.

Here is the Scientific Advisory Committee statement
https://www.nutrition.org.uk/news/2023/sacn-position-statement-on-processed-foods-and-health/

[redbyrdz]

Thats a bit of the point though, isn't it - the (ultra) processing alone seems to have an influence, not just the ingredients.

It's hard to get good evidence I think, because the overlap between ultra processed, and shite ingredients in so big. Plus there are likely also life style factors, those that eat a lot of UPFs have likely a different lifestyle than those that cook mostly from scratch.

[Craig S]

Thats a bit of the point though, isn't it - the (ultra) processing alone seems to have an influence, not just the ingredients.

It's hard to get good evidence I think, because the overlap between ultra processed, and shite ingredients in so big. Plus there are likely also life style factors, those that eat a lot of UPFs have likely a different lifestyle than those that cook mostly from scratch.

I am just not sure there is the evidence to say that first bit just yet. As you say, it's the crap pumped into the foods in most of the processing methods that make them nutritionally poor. I agree UPFs in general are bad, but I am just not sure that it being UPF in itself that causes that.  And the newspapers using the "even these healthy foods are UPF", so implying they must be bad, is the bit I am really objecting to.

The observations so far are possibly exposing bad diets in general. I don't know how you would get the evidence, unless you had a control group living off nutritionally healthy UPFs. I don't imagine any one would volunteer for it   .

EDIT: Actually, maybe they can check in a few years on those mad cult like people that have a 100% Huel diet - that could be the control group . That is nationally balanced, but it is UPF as flavourings, stabilisers and preservatives.

[redbyrdz]

I am just not sure there is the evidence to say that first bit just yet. As you say, it's the crap pumped into the foods in most of the processing methods that make them nutritionally poor. I agree UPFs in general are bad, but I am just not sure that it being UPF in itself that causes that.  And the newspapers using the "even these healthy foods are UPF", so implying they must be bad, is the bit I am really objecting to.

The observations so far are possibly exposing bad diets in general. I don't know how you would get the evidence, unless you had a control group living off nutritionally healthy UPFs. I don't imagine any one would volunteer for it   .

EDIT: Actually, maybe they can check in a few years on those mad cult like people that have a 100% Huel diet - that could be the control group . That is nationally balanced, but it is UPF as flavourings, stabilisers and preservatives.

The Huel people are probably not comparable in life style to normal UPF eaters. But otherwise, that would be interesting. But then there's also other differences, liquid vs solid foods etc.



To be honest I'm not keen on "health foods". But it could easily be that the more direct benefits (low calorie, weight loss) outweigh (oops) the negatives for a large part if the (obese) population.

[killer-heels]

Standard, supermarket bought bread, yes.  Home baked or bought from a Polsh, or Eastern European shop, no.

The bread I bake has about 5 ingredients in it and the ones that you can buy in Eastern European shops, have about 5 ingredients too.

You pick a loaf os bread in a British supermarket and see how much stuff is in it.

My European mates can't believe the shit that passes for bread, in this country.

Yeah but it’s such a staple and kids get through so much that it’s difficult to do anything else. Something I’m going to have to look into a bit more.

[Too early for flapjacks?]

Yeah but it’s such a staple and kids get through so much that it’s difficult to do anything else. Something I’m going to have to look into a bit more.

Just buy a bread maker and make your own. It's easy. Some you can even put on a timer if you want it fresh and warm in the morning.

[Red-Soldier]

Yeah but it’s such a staple and kids get through so much that it’s difficult to do anything else. Something I’m going to have to look into a bit more.

Get them onto the good stuff early doors 

[Mister Flip Flop]

Unfortunately a lot of people don't have the time, skills, money, kitchen etc... to be Jamie Oliver. Like i'd like to buy all my food from a farmers market but im not on premier league players wages so have to make do with Lidl or Aldi. I find a lot of types that preach down to people about what they eat are from well off backgrounds anyway. Don't know about the UK but in Ireland it's about three times more expensive for something healthy like a pack of strawberries than an equivalent size pack of sweets.

Saying that i've a bowl of porridge each and every morning to start the day and don't waste my money on rubbish like take out coffee.

[Millie]

I haven't bought shop bread for ages.  I have a breadmaker - it's just so easy, and tastes so much better.

[Zlen]

Unfortunately a lot of people don't have the time, skills, money, kitchen etc... to be Jamie Oliver. Like i'd like to buy all my food from a farmers market but im not on premier league players wages so have to make do with Lidl or Aldi. I find a lot of types that preach down to people about what they eat are from well off backgrounds anyway. Don't know about the UK but in Ireland it's about three times more expensive for something healthy like a pack of strawberries than an equivalent size pack of sweets.

Saying that i've a bowl of porridge each and every morning to start the day and don't waste my money on rubbish like take out coffee.

There are plenty tasty and good foods that are cheap in Ireland, fruits as well. Pears, apples, bananas - all cheap. Good meat is reasonably priced too. Lot of cheap veg. Ham is affordable, dairy products are amazing in Ireland and dirt cheap.

[thejbs]

There’s no consensus what so ever.  It’s quite a lot of pseudo science tabloid friendly guff.

It might end up having positive consequences, but it’s riddled with nonsense.

A piece of beef.  Fine
Mince it?  Not so good.
Shape it into a burger? Worse.
Put the burger in a box and sell it? Worst.

I mean, come on.

No, that’s completely erroneous and not what upf is at all. And there is proper scientific evidence behind this. It’s not pseudoscience.

Burger I made last week (Not UPF):
Beef
Salt
Pepper
Egg
EV Olive Oil
Served on a homemade sourdough bap

Big Al Frozen Burger (UPF):
Beef (85%),
Beef Fat,
Textured SOYA Protein,
Dextrose,
WHEAT GLUTEN,
WHEAT Flour (With Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin),
Stabiliser: Triphosphates, EGG White Powder, Salt, Onion Powder,
Yeast Extract,
Flavouring.

Tesco Beef Burger (UPF):
Beef (86%),
Water,
Rice Flour,
Salt,
Onion Powder,
Dextrose,
Sugar,
Yeast Extract,
Black Pepper,
Rapeseed Oil,
Paprika,
Bamboo Fibre,
Preservative (Sodium Metabisulphite),
White Pepper,
Bay,
Black Pepper Extract,
Flavouring.

A big Mac is (apparently) 100% beef. But, when everything else is factored in (bun, toppings, sauce) it has over 70 ingredients. The bun, sauce, cheese and even the pickle are UPF.

[Red-Soldier]

I haven't bought shop bread for ages. I have a breadmaker - it's just so easy, and tastes so much better.

Same.

Indeed it does.

[thejbs]

Unfortunately a lot of people don't have the time, skills, money, kitchen etc... to be Jamie Oliver. Like i'd like to buy all my food from a farmers market but im not on premier league players wages so have to make do with Lidl or Aldi. I find a lot of types that preach down to people about what they eat are from well off backgrounds anyway. Don't know about the UK but in Ireland it's about three times more expensive for something healthy like a pack of strawberries than an equivalent size pack of sweets.

Saying that i've a bowl of porridge each and every morning to start the day and don't waste my money on rubbish like take out coffee.

This is because of UPFs. Where industrial waste is being processed and sold as food to maximise profit and allowing 'food' to be sold cheaply. 

While UPF consumption is a bigger issue for those who are poor, there are some steps you can take to avoid it. But it does take some effort.

And no one is born with the skills to be a chef/baker. I've learned pretty much all my adult cooking and baking skills from reading and watching free stuff online. Almost anybody with an oven can bake bread, buns, cakes, scones with a little bit of practice (and it works out cheaper than even budget supermarket versions). I find it incredibly satisfying too.

I shop in supermarkets, not farmers markets. They all have non-upf options. I shop in Lidl quite often too. They have affordable non-upf food on their shelves. One of the easiest changes is to buy their raw nuts (cashews, almonds etc) instead of crisps. Another easy change is to make your own sauces with real veg (affordable in lidl). It's not only easy, but way tastier.

[TepidT2O]

No, that’s completely erroneous and not what upf is at all. And there is proper scientific evidence behind this. It’s not pseudoscience.

Burger I made last week (Not UPF):
Beef
Salt
Pepper
Egg
EV Olive Oil
Served on a homemade sourdough bap

Big Al Frozen Burger (UPF):
Beef (85%),
Beef Fat,
Textured SOYA Protein,
Dextrose,
WHEAT GLUTEN,
WHEAT Flour (With Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin),
Stabiliser: Triphosphates, EGG White Powder, Salt, Onion Powder,
Yeast Extract,
Flavouring.

Tesco Beef Burger (UPF):
Beef (86%),
Water,
Rice Flour,
Salt,
Onion Powder,
Dextrose,
Sugar,
Yeast Extract,
Black Pepper,
Rapeseed Oil,
Paprika,
Bamboo Fibre,
Preservative (Sodium Metabisulphite),
White Pepper,
Bay,
Black Pepper Extract,
Flavouring.

A big Mac is (apparently) 100% beef. But, when everything else is factored in (bun, toppings, sauce) it has over 70 ingredients. The bun, sauce, cheese and even the pickle are UPF.

This is all a load of woo for me.

The advatage of avoiding “upfs” is to have a diet that is lower in salt, sugar and fat.

[redbyrdz]

Unfortunately a lot of people don't have the time, skills, money, kitchen etc... to be Jamie Oliver. Like i'd like to buy all my food from a farmers market but im not on premier league players wages so have to make do with Lidl or Aldi. I find a lot of types that preach down to people about what they eat are from well off backgrounds anyway. Don't know about the UK but in Ireland it's about three times more expensive for something healthy like a pack of strawberries than an equivalent size pack of sweets.

Saying that i've a bowl of porridge each and every morning to start the day and don't waste my money on rubbish like take out coffee.

I don't get this all or nothing thinking.

You don't need to be Jamie Oliver to cook your own meals, there's plenty of easy, quick recipes around. I think it's actually quicker to eg. chop up some veg, cook it  and boil some rice than waiting for a takeaway order to turn up.

And there's nothing wrong with buying fruit and veg from Lidl or Aldi. It's perfectly fine.

I agree that its weird that sweets are cheaper than strawberries  but it's not about eating strawberries year round, it's about eating potatoes, carrots, apples, normal stuff that isn't actually that expensive. I think along with forgetting how to cook  people also have weird expectations what eating healthy means. They see pictures of people eating berries year round, but an apple or an orange is just fine.