Topic: Chewer of Toffees, scourge of Barça, Peeler of Spuds, Arse kicker, Wolves slayer

[CraigDS]

Can't see a PL club being interested in taking him on loan and guaranteeing him playing time. So likely, given his form, he'd end up on a new contract and in a bench somewhere not doing his value any good.

Cut our losses and move on personally. Should be able to get £10-15m for him I guess, shove a buyback/sell on clause in there and take £10m.

[KingKolo]

Cut our losses and move on personally. Should be able to get £10-15m for him I guess, shove a buyback/sell on clause in there and take £10m.

Definitely.

[disgraced cake]

I'd keep hold for the season. In fact, I'd not have let him go last season. He might not find the form he was in during the end of his first year here but I still think he has something in him.

[Nessy76]

Can't see a PL club being interested in taking him on loan and guaranteeing him playing time. So likely, given his form, he'd end up on a new contract and in a bench somewhere not doing his value any good.

Cut our losses and move on personally. Should be able to get £10-15m for him I guess, shove a buyback/sell on clause in there and take £10m.

Or see what Stevie G can do with him for a year.

[ArthurDent]

I'd keep hold for the season. In fact, I'd not have let him go last season. He might not find the form he was in during the end of his first year here but I still think he has something in him.

I'd agree, but it certainly isn't a popular view. In fact, I'd go farther and say if he came on in Kiev instead of Lallana, we don't have a complete collapse like we did.

[Giono]

 

So wait....no-one else wants him, so we should sell him? Makes perfect sense.....

I'm sure quite a few clubs would want him, its a good punt for £10 million odd. I'd keep him around on a new contract cos I think there's a good player in there, and he's still very young. We don't need to stockpile loanees like Chelsea, but I think we can afford to with a few.

Your logic is: nobody wants him = new contract + match time

All in the hope he goes up in value a few pounds? I’d rather that someone else pay us for the opportunity to see if he becomes of value rather than throwing more of our money at him.

[Giono]

Or see what Stevie G can do with him for a year.

Why doesn’t Stevie want him?

[KingKolo]

So wait....no-one else wants him, so we should sell him? Makes perfect sense.....

Nobody wants him, including us, so we shouldn't offer him a new deal.

If someone wants to buy him - great. I doubt they will though.

[Dench57]

I'd agree, but it certainly isn't a popular view. In fact, I'd go farther and say if he came on in Kiev instead of Lallana, we don't have a complete collapse like we did.

 

[Nessy76]

Why doesn’t Stevie want him?

No idea what Stevie thinks, but he badly needs a striker.

[hesbighesred]

Ahh Divock ... takes me back a couple of years to his hot streak when I and a couple of others were posting he doesn’t get into dangerous positions / get enough shots off to be a top level striker and everyone was getting angry and saying he scored goals etc....

I remember that discussion and yeah, it's a good example of using underlying stats to highlight a potential flaw. And it does seem like that was/is exactly his problem - he can finish, and finish with aplomb, but doesn't get into the right positions often enough.

[El Lobo]

Your logic is: nobody wants him = new contract + match time

All in the hope he goes up in value a few pounds? I’d rather that someone else pay us for the opportunity to see if he becomes of value rather than throwing more of our money at him.

No no, my logic is we might want him, he's still young enough to improve and the amount of money we'd get for him is shite anyway. So keep him around, see how he does pre-season and then either loan him out or keep him.

[Gerry Attrick]

Unfortunately, I think a parting of ways is best for all concerned now. He's not going to be the right player for us no matter how long we keep him and the loans he has been on haven't exactly been roaring successes. He needs to go and move to a team that are invested in his improvement, instead of being an easy guy to drop when it's not going great.

[BigAl24]

 

Re: Liverpool 0 Tottenham 0 FT

Ğ Reply #878 on: October 18, 2015, 10:00:44 AM ğ


Crazy shout I know, and don't all knock me down straight away...

But could Origi be our Lewandowski? There are real raw tools to work with there which Jurgen can make the most of, and let's face it Lewandowski wasn't the finished article when he was signed was he?

I'm excited by the boy and thought he did well yesterday. When Benteke/Sturridge are fit it'll help him settle in a bit more as third choice and can play with less pressure.

This aged well.

[Giono]

No no, my logic is we might want him, he's still young enough to improve and the amount of money we'd get for him is shite anyway. So keep him around, see how he does pre-season and then either loan him out or keep him.

How many young players with potential do we have? How much match time will be available to them? Is he worth giving a new contract, let alone taking valuable match time from other young players? Has his season at Wolfsburg earned him that?

I don’t see it.

[El Lobo]

How many young players with potential do we have? How much match time will be available to them? Is he worth giving a new contract, let alone taking valuable match time from other young players? Has his season at Wolfsburg earned him that?

I don’t see it.

I don’t go on loans too much to be honest, I’ve seen some class players stink the place up on loan and seen shocking players look like world beaters. If the manager thinks he’s promising enough still, give him a contract and then see what happens. We’re not exactly dripping in strikers, and Solanke and Ings have hardly nailed down their spots. Just think there’s quite a lot there for us to not just go ‘yeah ok £10 million and you can have him’. In this climate that gets you absolutely fuck all.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

really was disappointing this year at Wolfsburg.

I can't see him being here this coming season

[RyanBabel19]

Hard to believe he's only just turned 23

I'd keep him, has all the tools and scores goals which is exactly what we need. Good link up player and scores at important times, always felt he was a real confidence player and he looks most dangerous when he's grabbed a goal or gone on a good run.

I'd honestly have him ahead of both Ings and Solanke in the pecking order at the moment, in terms of a back up to Firmino i think he's the best squad player on the clubs books at present. Would like to see him given pre season. Important to remember he wasn't just shipped out on loan, he wanted to ensure he kept progressing and asked to play somewhere he would get games which is a big thing for such a young player, most would just happily sit on the bench and be back up for another season.

For all the stick he gets for last season as if it was a diabolical season...

League
14 Starts - 20 Sub appearances
7 Goals - 3 Assists

FA Cup
3 Starts
1 Goal

Carling Cup
4 Starts - 2 Sub Appearances
3 Goals

Total

21 Starts - 22 Sub Appearances
11 Goals
3 Assists

Those aren't terrible stats for a player who, up until the last month of last season was 21 years old in my opinion. Give Solanke those same stats this coming season and people would be hailing how well he's done and how he's going to have a great future

[Frank Becton]

Don’t think he is good enough for us, needs regular football also best all round if we can get a decent fee for him.

[newterp]

Hard to believe he's only just turned 23

I'd keep him, has all the tools and scores goals which is exactly what we need. Good link up player and scores at important times, always felt he was a real confidence player and he looks most dangerous when he's grabbed a goal or gone on a good run.

I'd honestly have him ahead of both Ings and Solanke in the pecking order at the moment, in terms of a back up to Firmino i think he's the best squad player on the clubs books at present. Would like to see him given pre season. Important to remember he wasn't just shipped out on loan, he wanted to ensure he kept progressing and asked to play somewhere he would get games which is a big thing for such a young player, most would just happily sit on the bench and be back up for another season.

For all the stick he gets for last season as if it was a diabolical season...

League
14 Starts - 20 Sub appearances
7 Goals - 3 Assists

FA Cup
3 Starts
1 Goal

Carling Cup
4 Starts - 2 Sub Appearances
3 Goals

Total

21 Starts - 22 Sub Appearances
11 Goals
3 Assists

Those aren't terrible stats for a player who, up until the last month of last season was 21 years old in my opinion. Give Solanke those same stats this coming season and people would be hailing how well he's done and how he's going to have a great future

exactly. I hate the knee jerk immediacy - he's not good enough argument. Give him a real chance. I think the Divock of pre-Fumes Moron is closer to the real deal.

[Dim Glas]

exactly. I hate the knee jerk immediacy - he's not good enough argument. Give him a real chance. I think the Divock of pre-Fumes Moron is closer to the real deal.

Problem is, people can counter by saying he had a real chance last season - and was really dissapointing.   I do agree that maybe he never did quite seem the same since that injury, although he did have another of his purple patches the following season.

He just seems  a very streaky player, same last season, started off positively, 4 goals in his first 9 apperance. And then a tiny little flourish at the end too with 2 goals and a terrific assist in the last 3 games. But in between, there was so very little.

[afc tukrish]

I don’t go on loans too much to be honest

Loan spell at GOT as SteveO seemed to work a treat...

[LFC when it suits]

Hard to believe he's only just turned 23

I'd keep him, has all the tools and scores goals which is exactly what we need. Good link up player and scores at important times, always felt he was a real confidence player and he looks most dangerous when he's grabbed a goal or gone on a good run.

I'd honestly have him ahead of both Ings and Solanke in the pecking order at the moment, in terms of a back up to Firmino i think he's the best squad player on the clubs books at present. Would like to see him given pre season. Important to remember he wasn't just shipped out on loan, he wanted to ensure he kept progressing and asked to play somewhere he would get games which is a big thing for such a young player, most would just happily sit on the bench and be back up for another season.

For all the stick he gets for last season as if it was a diabolical season...

League
14 Starts - 20 Sub appearances
7 Goals - 3 Assists

FA Cup
3 Starts
1 Goal

Carling Cup
4 Starts - 2 Sub Appearances
3 Goals

Total

21 Starts - 22 Sub Appearances
11 Goals
3 Assists

Those aren't terrible stats for a player who, up until the last month of last season was 21 years old in my opinion. Give Solanke those same stats this coming season and people would be hailing how well he's done and how he's going to have a great future

Unfortunately, he had a poor 2nd half to that season and people think a young players development always follows an upward trend and if it doesn't we need to get rid. A similar thing happened at Wolfsburg. He was very good in the 1st half of the season and dropped off massively in the 2nd half.

Problem is, people can counter by saying he had a real chance last season - and was really dissapointing.   I do agree that maybe he never did quite seem the same since that injury, although he did have another of his purple patches the following season.

He just seems  a very streaky player, same last season, started off positively, 4 goals in his first 9 apperance. And then a tiny little flourish at the end too with 2 goals and a terrific assist in the last 3 games. But in between, there was so very little.

Young players are like that though. Purple patches as they develop and you would expect them to become more consistent by the time they hit 24-27. Think he is the perfect player to have on the bench behind Firmino and has shown he is levels above our other options. 11 goals in his last season for us when he was 21 is an excellent return.

[Djozer]

Unfortunately, he had a poor 2nd half to that season and people think a young players development always follows an upward trend and if it doesn't we need to get rid. A similar thing happened at Wolfsburg. He was very good in the 1st half of the season and dropped off massively in the 2nd half.

Was he even that good in the first half of his Wolfsburg loan? I wasn't following that closely but he didn't seem to be tearing up trees, although in fairness the team as a whole seemed pretty poor, a far cry from the glory days.

I like Origi a lot, he's got loads of ability and great physical attributes too, but it just doesn't seem to be happening for him. I can see us possibly moving him on this window, given he only has a year left on his contract, but I still feel if he can put it all together he could end up a fantastic player.

[Dim Glas]

Was he even that good in the first half of his Wolfsburg loan? I wasn't following that closely but he didn't seem to be tearing up trees, although in fairness the team as a whole seemed pretty poor, a far cry from the glory days.

I like Origi a lot, he's got loads of ability and great physical attributes too, but it just doesn't seem to be happening for him. I can see us possibly moving him on this window, given he only has a year left on his contract, but I still feel if he can put it all together he could end up a fantastic player.

He was definitely noticeable and contributing of what I saw early on, thats when the talk started about him loving it there and everything seemed rosy with club and player. Wolfsburg allowed Gomez to leave too in January, which suggested to me they trusted Origi a lot then. Cos after he left their other striker options where youngsters - one of who was the player (Dimata), that replaced him in the lineup when he got dropped for a few games.

[Red Beret]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the lad's never been the same since Fumes Fucking Mori did a number on him in the derby.  I reckon he was on the cusp of something special before that.

[LFC when it suits]

Was he even that good in the first half of his Wolfsburg loan? I wasn't following that closely but he didn't seem to be tearing up trees, although in fairness the team as a whole seemed pretty poor, a far cry from the glory days.

I like Origi a lot, he's got loads of ability and great physical attributes too, but it just doesn't seem to be happening for him. I can see us possibly moving him on this window, given he only has a year left on his contract, but I still feel if he can put it all together he could end up a fantastic player.

He was very good in the 1st half and played more than a few games on the right. Wolfsburg were very happy with him and he seemed happy at Wolfsburg and there was talk of them wanting to make the deal permanent. However, it all went belly up in the 2nd half as mentioned above when he replaced Gomaz as the main man . To be fair,  Wolfsburg were such a poor team though, so he struggled in a struggling side. He showed up big time when it mattered though and saved them from relegation in the play off. He has done that more than a few times in his career for us as well.

[Djozer]

He was definitely noticeable and contributing of what I saw early on, thats when the talk started about him loving it there and everything seemed rosy with club and player. Wolfsburg allowed Gomez to leave too in January, which suggested to me they trusted Origi a lot then. Cos after he left their other striker options where youngsters - one of who was the player (Dimata), that replaced him in the lineup when he got dropped for a few games.

I sort of assumed that when Gomez left he'd improve, as he'd get to play centrally more,  but if anything he seemed to get worse. Honestly thought it would be a good loan for him but it ended up being, not a nightmare so much, but definitely a bit underwhelming.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the lad's never been the same since Fumes Fucking Mori did a number on him in the derby.  I reckon he was on the cusp of something special before that.

Think there's a lot of truth in what you say. Still think he could get to a very high level with a bit of luck, but the past couple of years haven't been ideal. Hope he makes the most of his potential, whether with us or elsewhere, as he's always come across as a really nice guy. Seems pretty intelligent too, from a couple of interviews I've seen.

[L8Craig]

Is Solanke any better?

[Dim Glas]

I sort of assumed that when Gomez left he'd improve, as he'd get to play centrally more,  but if anything he seemed to get worse. Honestly thought it would be a good loan for him but it ended up being, not a nightmare so much, but definitely a bit underwhelming.

yeah I thought or maybe hoped he'd take advantage of Gomez leaving, and really push on. Of course it didnt help that Wolfsburg just lost the plot totally and went through 3 coaches last seasons!
But this is 3 season in a row now that Wolfsburg have just been utterly horrible. It's not like they've got the worst squad either, and they still spend some decent money on players, not as they used to, but they outspend a fair few teams who outpeform them in the league.

[Red Beret]

Think there's a lot of truth in what you say. Still think he could get to a very high level with a bit of luck, but the past couple of years haven't been ideal. Hope he makes the most of his potential, whether with us or elsewhere, as he's always come across as a really nice guy. Seems pretty intelligent too, from a couple of interviews I've seen.

Thing is I don't think it was physical damage, or even that his confidence took a knock. It might actually be psychological, maybe even trauma of some kind.

Yeah I know that sounds far fetched but for a young lad to be on the receiving end of such pure hate, over what amounts to just a game, and see the scumbag slapping his badge as though he's done something honourable - well it's a bit sick really isn't it?

[Djozer]

Thing is I don't think it was physical damage, or even that his confidence took a knock. It might actually be psychological, maybe even trauma of some kind.

Yeah I know that sounds far fetched but for a young lad to be on the receiving end of such pure hate, over what amounts to just a game, and see the scumbag slapping his badge as though he's done something honourable - well it's a bit sick really isn't it?

Don't think it sounds far fetched at all mate. One of my mates had a really nasty BMX accident about ten years ago and had to go through counselling for PTSD, and he's never been the same bloke since. And that was without thousands of dickheads jeering the fact that he'd just got fucked up. Who knows what sort of a psychological toll these things can take?

[Adeemo]

Is Solanke any better?

Nope.

[stjohns]

Or see what Stevie G can do with him for a year.

That is a very fine idea.

[Nessy76]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the lad's never been the same since Fumes Fucking Mori did a number on him in the derby.  I reckon he was on the cusp of something special before that.

Or since he got an involuntary tongue sandwich from an overenthusiastic fan.

That is a very fine idea.

Ta.

[BabuYagu]

I really liked him when on loan in France. I liked him when he was here up to Fuming Mori wrecked him. Since then though, he really hasn't shone bar the occasional good game. I was convinced he would be a world beater and I was one pointing out his goals/90 numbers were consistent with high output target men at the same age not that long ago. But that above is really poor. He is stacking up poorly against the likes of Chris Wood, Ashley Barnes, Yussuf Poulsen, Benteke, Welbeck, Wagner, Belfodil, Crouch in terms of 6foot+ strikers. Which is a shame because as a highly-mobile target man that had good hold up play, I expected him to score much higher in his all round play.

Not sure where you go from there.

[vivabobbygraham]

I really liked him when on loan in France. I liked him when he was here up to Fuming Mori wrecked him. Since then though, he really hasn't shone bar the occasional good game. I was convinced he would be a world beater and I was one pointing out his goals/90 numbers were consistent with high output target men at the same age not that long ago. But that above is really poor. He is stacking up poorly against the likes of Chris Wood, Ashley Barnes, Yussuf Poulsen, Benteke, Welbeck, Wagner, Belfodil, Crouch in terms of 6foot+ strikers. Which is a shame because as a highly-mobile target man that had good hold up play, I expected him to score much higher in his all round play.

Not sure where you go from there.

Everton?

[CHOPPER]

[Oberyn_Martell]

He did well when we played a 4-2-3-1 and seemed to struggle a lot when we played a 4-3-3 the season after.
I would keep him though.
Shaqiri and Origi alongside a top end coutinho replacement is a lot better than what we had last season.

[Red Beret]

Don't think it sounds far fetched at all mate. One of my mates had a really nasty BMX accident about ten years ago and had to go through counselling for PTSD, and he's never been the same bloke since. And that was without thousands of dickheads jeering the fact that he'd just got fucked up. Who knows what sort of a psychological toll these things can take?

Yeah.  How can you play with confidence and enjoy your football when there's that thought lurking at the back of your mind that some talentless thug might decide to break your leg again?  Simply for being good at what you do and them not being as good at it as you are?

You make yourself small and you play it safe.  I don't think he takes the risks a young player his age should be taking - and enjoying - anymore.

That said, surely the club will have offered him counselling and support?  He needs more than an arm around the shoulders if this is the root of the problem because the talent is clearly still there.  It could well be he's just plain scared now.