Author Topic: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch  (Read 160135 times)

Offline elsewhere

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1240 on: December 6, 2021, 12:16:15 pm »
I would say Cash is also good. He’s been their best player this season whenever I’ve seen them.
I agree, he didn't have a good game yesterday,mind. Any other player could've dived when he fouled Harvey in the box.  But, he was one of their bright spots whole season.

Mings is quite overrated though, i don't know what he offers except physical presence and being threat in air.

McGinn got better and better every single match with Gerrard.

Maybe not popular opinion here but i think Ings transfer was so pointless for them.
« Last Edit: December 6, 2021, 12:17:47 pm by elsewhere »

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1241 on: December 6, 2021, 12:19:32 pm »
Agree with a lot of what you say about Stevie....but I'm not sure they have a bottom half level side. Martinez is a good keeper. Cash, Konsa, Targett, Mings and Hause are all decent PL defenders (to difference extents). Luiz and McGinn in particular are good midfielders and then they've got a good range attackers in Watkins, Ings, Buendia, Bailey, El Ghazi, Trezeguet and Traore. Its why I thought it was a smart move by him.

And absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever with a manager using tactics best suited to his players to get the best results. AGAIN its people having this idea that he's auditioning for the Liverpool job.

I think you'll find that most managers use tactics that they believe in rather then what's suited to their players at the top level.  There are several examples of this with Bielsa completely changing Leeds without changing many players right when he arrived as probably the easiest example to see.  Then you have Potter, Rodgers, etc who also have their favored tactics that they instill in their teams.

If Gerrard is going to employ more defensive tactics right from the beginning, that's fine, but that's also likely what he believes in and will stick with during his managerial career. 

Offline Sangria

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1242 on: December 6, 2021, 12:19:51 pm »
Money don’t make my world go round.

Dalglish likes Money.
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Offline OsirisMVZ

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1243 on: December 6, 2021, 12:26:57 pm »
Mings is quite overrated though, i don't know what he offers except physical presence and being threat in air.

He's the only left footed CB for England, isn't he? Hence why he makes the national team squads.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1244 on: December 6, 2021, 12:38:48 pm »
I think you'll find that most managers use tactics that they believe in rather then what's suited to their players at the top level.  There are several examples of this with Bielsa completely changing Leeds without changing many players right when he arrived as probably the easiest example to see.  Then you have Potter, Rodgers, etc who also have their favored tactics that they instill in their teams.

If Gerrard is going to employ more defensive tactics right from the beginning, that's fine, but that's also likely what he believes in and will stick with during his managerial career.

Do you remember how long it has taken them to get their style ingrained in their sides? Swansea did not play like that overnight. Liverpool in his first season struggled for a while and then the signings of Coutinho and Sturridge enhanced our attacking game during the 2nd half of the season. Brighton finished 15th and 16th in the last two seasons and finally they are looking like a good team. Bielsa improved Leeds, but he even he did not get them promoted in the first season as the lost the play-offs.

Also, fixing a defense, doesn't mean a team is going to remain defensive. In fact, it has to be remembered that only when Klopp fixed our defense, did we start challenging for the title, even though we were scoring goals before. Under Brendan, the major criticism was his inability to coach a defense and that is one of the reasons why we couldn't progress further under him.

Offline newterp

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1245 on: December 6, 2021, 03:03:52 pm »
Money don’t make my world go round.

nor can it buy you love....

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1246 on: December 6, 2021, 05:06:19 pm »
Do you remember how long it has taken them to get their style ingrained in their sides? Swansea did not play like that overnight. Liverpool in his first season struggled for a while and then the signings of Coutinho and Sturridge enhanced our attacking game during the 2nd half of the season. Brighton finished 15th and 16th in the last two seasons and finally they are looking like a good team. Bielsa improved Leeds, but he even he did not get them promoted in the first season as the lost the play-offs.

Also, fixing a defense, doesn't mean a team is going to remain defensive. In fact, it has to be remembered that only when Klopp fixed our defense, did we start challenging for the title, even though we were scoring goals before. Under Brendan, the major criticism was his inability to coach a defense and that is one of the reasons why we couldn't progress further under him.

Yes, it takes time to implement a new style fully.  However, just like we saw with Klopp here, you should see early signs of that style fairly early.  Gerrard has been at Villa for what, 3 or 4 weeks, so we should start to see his preferred style of play.  And, just to be clear, if his preferred style is more of a defensive or counterattacking style, that’s totally fine.  The early signs are that he’s probably going to be a pretty good manager, regardless of how he sets up his teams. 

Offline tubby

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1247 on: December 6, 2021, 05:09:28 pm »
His approach at Rangers changed during his time there, he's not been rigid with his tactics from the off, he's evolved them as the team has got better.  If he's tightening up the defence at Villa now, it doesn't mean he's going to have them playing that way until he leaves.
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Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1248 on: December 6, 2021, 05:15:29 pm »
Teams evolve as they get better because they get better at playing in the system/tactics, not because the system/tactics are changed.  You don't play one way for two years as a manager, be relatively successful and then flip a switch to something completely different.  It's just not the way it works as if you're wrong you are out of a job at worst and at best the players start doubting you.

Klopp didn't fix our defense by changing tactics, he fixed it by getting better players for his style/tactics.

This thread just reinforces for me that if Gerrard does succeed Klopp the first run of bad results will probably break this forum and create some real ugly responses in the fan base as a whole.

Offline tubby

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1249 on: December 6, 2021, 05:20:21 pm »
Klopp didn't fix our defense by changing tactics, he fixed it by getting better players for his style/tactics.

When he first arrived, he tried to make us play the same way as his Dortmund team, with a lone striker, a 10, and two supporting wide players.  We played like that for some time, think it was until the front three all came together and he pivoted away from that and into our current system.  Creativity from deep fullbacks was not a hallmark of a Klopp system previously.
Sit down, shock is better taken with bent knees.

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1250 on: December 6, 2021, 05:33:36 pm »
When he first arrived, he tried to make us play the same way as his Dortmund team, with a lone striker, a 10, and two supporting wide players.  We played like that for some time, think it was until the front three all came together and he pivoted away from that and into our current system.  Creativity from deep fullbacks was not a hallmark of a Klopp system previously.

Klopp's system has evolved based on the individuals as any system does but the general principles of play are exactly the same.  None of what you're saying has anything to do with the defense either which was only "fixed" once Van Dijk was bought.

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1251 on: December 6, 2021, 05:35:12 pm »
Klopp's system has evolved based on the individuals as any system does but the general principles of play are exactly the same.  None of what you're saying has anything to do with the defense either which was only "fixed" once Van Dijk was bought.

We actually started to fix the defence after that Spurs loss. Our defensive performance was really good between October - end of December.

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1252 on: December 6, 2021, 05:38:19 pm »
We actually started to fix the defence after that Spurs loss. Our defensive performance was really good between October - end of December.

Are you saying then that managers do change their style/tactics to be completely different than how they started?  We seem to be getting lost in the weeds of the actual point.  I'm keeping my responses pretty simple due to that.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1253 on: December 6, 2021, 06:22:36 pm »
Teams evolve as they get better because they get better at playing in the system/tactics, not because the system/tactics are changed. 

Why do teams evolve, if they're getting better at what they do? That's a contradictory statement. Teams evolve because they want to adapt to circumstances.

Quote
You don't play one way for two years as a manager, be relatively successful and then flip a switch to something completely different. It's just not the way it works as if you're wrong you are out of a job at worst and at best the players start doubting you.

If this is with perspective of Gerrard, then what way is that? I mean you watched a handful of games when they played superior sides and concluded his style was defensive. They played Celtic a few times under him, and they were hardly defensive in those games. It was only when they played some superior sides in Europe, that he was more cautious in his approach. Of course, you have to adapt to certain games - most Top managers did that. If you don't, you'll get battered like how Leeds were earlier in the season by United.

There is a lot of focus on 13 goals conceded by Rangers, which is exceptional - but us in 2018/19 conceded just 22 goals in the season. That doesn't mean were defensive. Rangers scored 92 goals in that season, which is conveniently ignored in your points.

Quote
Klopp didn't fix our defense by changing tactics, he fixed it by getting better players for his style/tactics.

Maybe you didn't notice things in depth or maybe you just forgot, but since we got Klopp, year on year, our Goals conceded column kept declining until it reached its lowest in 2018-19. I saw steady progress. We did pressures under Rodgers, but never pressed in an organized way. Klopp saw that, he got us organized little by little and that's how he fixed the defense. Our defense of Matip and Lovren was stable for a while before even Van Dijk came, and we were steadily improving, bar the odd shockers, so it wasn't a case of just getting Van Dijk and voila, everything changed with our defense. He was the final piece of the jigsaw, not the initial one.

Klopp and his staff will know how much they worked in training to get our defense right.

Quote
This thread just reinforces for me that if Gerrard does succeed Klopp the first run of bad results will probably break this forum and create some real ugly responses in the fan base as a whole.

I don't know how you're getting that, from this discussion. Many of us do not even want to discuss whether or not the move to us would happen. Sometimes, it's not all about us. First, he has carried massive pressure already as a player from us fans. Why do some of us want to pressurize him even after he has become a manager and so far, not even here? It's absurd. If he's good enough, we'll maybe look at him. If not, we'll look elsewhere. That's all there to it. Why do we even discuss things going wrong, when it's going to be way down the future for the club to even decide whether he will be in our consideration? This part of the post reeks of negativity.

As of now, he will do his thing with Villa, and he will take the best approach to improve them. The signs are already there that he will take them further. Sometimes, it's about giving a legend of the club the time and space he needs to progress his management career, without thinking of us.

Offline Tonyh8su

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1254 on: December 6, 2021, 06:24:51 pm »
Money don’t make my world go round.

I'm reachin' out to a higher ground.....Des'Ree.

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1255 on: December 6, 2021, 06:42:05 pm »


If Gerrard is going to employ more defensive tactics right from the beginning, that's fine, but that's also likely what he believes in and will stick with during his managerial career.

Defensive tactics like he had at Rangers ?
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Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1256 on: December 6, 2021, 06:43:45 pm »
Why do teams evolve, if they're getting better at what they do? That's a contradictory statement. Teams evolve because they want to adapt to circumstances.

If this is with perspective of Gerrard, then what way is that? I mean you watched a handful of games when they played superior sides and concluded his style was defensive. They played Celtic a few times under him, and they were hardly defensive in those games. It was only when they played some superior sides in Europe, that he was more cautious in his approach. Of course, you have to adapt to certain games - most Top managers did that. If you don't, you'll get battered like how Leeds were earlier in the season by United.

There is a lot of focus on 13 goals conceded by Rangers, which is exceptional - but us in 2018/19 conceded just 22 goals in the season. That doesn't mean were defensive. Rangers scored 92 goals in that season, which is conveniently ignored in your points.

Maybe you didn't notice things in depth or maybe you just forgot, but since we got Klopp, year on year, our Goals conceded column kept declining until it reached its lowest in 2018-19. I saw steady progress. We did pressures under Rodgers, but never pressed in an organized way. Klopp saw that, he got us organized little by little and that's how he fixed the defense. Our defense of Matip and Lovren was stable for a while before even Van Dijk came, and we were steadily improving, bar the odd shockers, so it wasn't a case of just getting Van Dijk and voila, everything changed with our defense. He was the final piece of the jigsaw, not the initial one.

Klopp and his staff will know how much they worked in training to get our defense right.

I don't know how you're getting that, from this discussion. Many of us do not even want to discuss whether or not the move to us would happen. Sometimes, it's not all about us. First, he has carried massive pressure already as a player from us fans. Why do some of us want to pressurize him even after he has become a manager and so far, not even here? It's absurd. If he's good enough, we'll maybe look at him. If not, we'll look elsewhere. That's all there to it. Why do we even discuss things going wrong, when it's going to be way down the future for the club to even decide whether he will be in our consideration? This part of the post reeks of negativity.

As of now, he will do his thing with Villa, and he will take the best approach to improve them. The signs are already there that he will take them further. Sometimes, it's about giving a legend of the club the time and space he needs to progress his management career, without thinking of us.

If you want to believe a manager is just going to be pragmatic as a first step to something different then you're wrong.  I really don't have anything else to say.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1257 on: December 6, 2021, 06:53:09 pm »
If you want to believe a manager is just going to be pragmatic as a first step to something different then you're wrong.  I really don't have anything else to say.

Sir, you watched 4 games under his management and you have the courage to tell me I'm wrong without addressing any of the points I made.

Rangers scored 92 goals and had 63% possession, but yeah, you do really have nothing meaningful to say.

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1258 on: December 6, 2021, 07:02:09 pm »
Sir, you watched 4 games under his management and you have the courage to tell me I'm wrong without addressing any of the points I made.

Rangers scored 92 goals and had 63% possession, but yeah, you do really have nothing meaningful to say.

I didn't specifically say how many games I've watched but you certainly seem entirely focused on that, do you have a personal number that is required before an opinion is valid?  10 games?  20?  How many? Do you have other posters you ask this of?  Where and in what thread?

I'd say early returns at Aston Villa haven't dissuaded me of my impressions.  I also specifically noted how it was an impression and we'll see but you can't seem to handle that as another poster noted.  Good day.

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1259 on: December 6, 2021, 07:19:00 pm »
I didn't specifically say how many games I've watched but you certainly seem entirely focused on that, do you have a personal number that is required before an opinion is valid?  10 games?  20?  How many? Do you have other posters you ask this of?  Where and in what thread?

I'd say early returns at Aston Villa haven't dissuaded me of my impressions.  I also specifically noted how it was an impression and we'll see but you can't seem to handle that as another poster noted.  Good day.

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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1260 on: December 6, 2021, 07:57:33 pm »
I didn't specifically say how many games I've watched but you certainly seem entirely focused on that, do you have a personal number that is required before an opinion is valid?  10 games?  20?  How many? Do you have other posters you ask this of?  Where and in what thread?

You talking numbers reminds me of what you did in the Thiago thread  :lmao

I don't have any specific numbers, but if you haven't watched enough of a player or a team, why do you have such a strong opinion that you want to keep coming to? I wouldn't do that and it makes no sense frankly.

Quote
I'd say early returns at Aston Villa haven't dissuaded me of my impressions.  I also specifically noted how it was an impression and we'll see but you can't seem to handle that as another poster noted.  Good day.

It's quite strange that having a discussion with opposing opinions implies not being to handle or whatever you want to think of. I'm having a discussion, and you're having a strong opinion without much to base on, of course you're going to get questioned. There are others who've questioned your reasoning just a few posts above.

Anyway, if we'll see is your answer to this, then alright. I don't like to make predictions like this, but he has improved Rangers from where they were when he took over and he is looking like he will improve Villa as well.

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1261 on: December 8, 2021, 03:31:32 pm »
Klopp says you learn more from losing games than winning them. Stevie should use this next game as a learning experience.

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1262 on: December 8, 2021, 03:49:27 pm »
Chances Stevie walks into the Liverpool dressing room when he comes?

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1263 on: December 8, 2021, 04:22:33 pm »
Chances Stevie walks into the Liverpool dressing room when he comes?

Could happen, It's similar to how many players call Klopp Dad accidentally in training

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1264 on: December 8, 2021, 04:55:46 pm »
Chances Stevie walks into the Liverpool dressing room when he comes?

I don't think he will do it, considering Villa fans won't like it. These are days, when everything becomes a story, so he will be careful.

He should and will get a great reception and he may/may not acknowledge it publicly.

There will be a handshake, smile and maybe a hug with Klopp at the beginning of the game and then it will be business for both sides.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1265 on: December 8, 2021, 05:09:04 pm »
I don't think he will do it, considering Villa fans won't like it. These are days, when everything becomes a story, so he will be careful.

He should and will get a great reception and he may/may not acknowledge it publicly.

There will be a handshake, smile and maybe a hug with Klopp at the beginning of the game and then it will be business for both sides.

I hope Gerrard gets as good a reception as Benitez. Love for all that he has done for us in the past. Followed by a good Liverpool thrashing. Actually, nix the other bits, as they're not important. Just give his team a good thrashing.
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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1266 on: December 8, 2021, 05:10:16 pm »
I hope Gerrard gets as good a reception as Benitez. Love for all that he has done for us in the past. Followed by a good Liverpool thrashing. Actually, nix the other bits, as they're not important. Just give his team a good thrashing.

And then a right cheery send off...
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

Offline Zee_26

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1267 on: December 8, 2021, 06:51:00 pm »
I hope Gerrard gets as good a reception as Benitez. Love for all that he has done for us in the past. Followed by a good Liverpool thrashing. Actually, nix the other bits, as they're not important. Just give his team a good thrashing.

I'm half expecting Gerrard to do the managerial equivalent of his backpass against Chelsea in 2010  ;D. Maybe he'll set up Villa in a throwback 2-3-5 formation.

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1268 on: December 8, 2021, 06:56:41 pm »
And then a right cheery send off...

Stevie's at the wheel? ;)

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1269 on: December 10, 2021, 10:15:39 pm »
Nice piece on Gerrard by Barney Ronay -

“Firstly, Saturday is not an audition. People keep saying it is. But how could it be? Gerrard has only just become Villa manager, a huge job in itself. Jürgen Klopp was already an elite coach when Liverpool hired him. On Saturday afternoon he will field one of the great modern-day club teams, currently on a sublime run of six wins in 19 days, with 17 goals scored and Klopp snooded-up on the touchline radiating grizzled alpha-power, another surge of light and fury. Audition that with your inherited mid-season Aston Villa.”

“Gerrard still has a wariness that translates now into authority. He is clearly obsessed with football, and obsessed with winning. He wouldn’t be a DNA manager at Liverpool. This isn’t badge waffle, or culture blah. He has a style, and will stand or fall on how far he can take that.”
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2021/dec/10/golden-generation-survivor-steven-gerrard-is-writing-his-own-superhero-story

Offline RedForeverTT

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1270 on: December 11, 2021, 10:10:41 am »
His credentials is already ahead of Brendan Rodgers as far as I can tell.

Totally rebuild the Rangers side and blew away the Scottish league.

Reinvigorated Villa playing solid football.

All this achieved with little apprenticeship. He only spent a year coaching our under 18 and under 19. His understanding of football management is too class just like his playing career.

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1271 on: December 11, 2021, 11:13:59 am »
I don't think he will do it, considering Villa fans won't like it. These are days, when everything becomes a story, so he will be careful.

He should and will get a great reception and he may/may not acknowledge it publicly.

There will be a handshake, smile and maybe a hug with Klopp at the beginning of the game and then it will be business for both sides.

I haven't lived in the house in Southport for years, yet whenever I visit my stepdad, he's had the bathroom done and a new floor in the kitchen which has changed the height, and I still turn the wrong way for the sink in the bathroom and mis-step walking into the kitchen, because of 20 years of things being that way.

Gerrard will likely automatically go to turn to the home dressing room, as he's being doing it since he was about 18, the re-modelling of the area will probably spare him his blushes.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1272 on: December 11, 2021, 12:06:25 pm »
I haven't lived in the house in Southport for years, yet whenever I visit my stepdad, he's had the bathroom done and a new floor in the kitchen which has changed the height, and I still turn the wrong way for the sink in the bathroom and mis-step walking into the kitchen, because of 20 years of things being that way.

Gerrard will likely automatically go to turn to the home dressing room, as he's being doing it since he was about 18, the re-modelling of the area will probably spare him his blushes.

Ha ha, yeah. That's a possibility!

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1273 on: December 11, 2021, 12:21:08 pm »
Ha ha, yeah. That's a possibility!

You just know the TV cameras will be there trying to capture that moment. Lineker already has his script prepared.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1274 on: December 11, 2021, 12:22:29 pm »
His credentials is already ahead of Brendan Rodgers as far as I can tell.

Totally rebuild the Rangers side and blew away the Scottish league.

Reinvigorated Villa playing solid football.

All this achieved with little apprenticeship. He only spent a year coaching our under 18 and under 19. His understanding of football management is too class just like his playing career.

It´s a bit soon to say he has "reinvigorated Villa". He is not even 5 games in.

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1275 on: December 11, 2021, 12:37:42 pm »
It´s a bit soon to say he has "reinvigorated Villa". He is not even 5 games in.

We need to get well beyond the "new manager bounce" before we can really start to judge him.

I hope he really is the real deal, as I'd love him to manage us if he is good enough. We need someone who won't undo all the hard work that has been done since Klopp came in, re the academy and stuff and I can see Gerrard understanding that.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1276 on: December 11, 2021, 04:54:45 pm »
Well he’s certainly coached them to timewaste, shithouse and harass the referee to a high level.

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1277 on: December 11, 2021, 04:59:24 pm »
Ha take that.

Looked like just another middling English-style manager to me.

Then again, to be fair, he's young and very inexperienced.


Wish we'd twatted them a bit more than that though.
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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1278 on: December 11, 2021, 05:00:19 pm »
Ha take that.

Looked like just another middling English-style manager to me.

Then again, to be fair, he's young and very inexperienced.

He was also up against one of the best sides in the world with a pretty mediocre squad which he's not even had a transfer window with yet.

Offline tubby

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Re: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch
« Reply #1279 on: December 11, 2021, 05:03:58 pm »
Yeah I dunno what anyone was expecting him to do, 5 games into a new job.  Come here and play expansive football?  He would've been insane to set them up any other way than how they played today.
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