Author Topic: FSG discussion thread  (Read 745315 times)

Offline DelTrotter

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6480 on: November 24, 2022, 12:13:01 pm »
Why is it odd? The club is up for sale and new owners might bring their own team in so he’s off before that happens.

Smart move by him.

Then he'd be better waiting for a nice pay off no? Not to mention new guys might want to stick with what we've got anyway so he could end up with an enormous budget to play with instead.

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6481 on: November 24, 2022, 12:14:06 pm »
Then he'd be better waiting for a nice pay off no? Not to mention new guys might want to stick with what we've got anyway so he could end up with an enormous budget to play with instead.

Unless he has got wind they have a new man coming in (who might just be an old face)?

But even so, surely better to get a pay off than to resign?
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Offline Lynx the saucy mynx

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6482 on: November 24, 2022, 12:14:13 pm »
Good job Liverpool wasn't a leveraged buyout. Everything FSG pockets will be pure profit.

What did Hicks want for the club back in 2010? £800m wasn't it? After him and Gillette paid £170m between them three and a half years earlier.

If I take any comfort from this, it will be knowing those two will be crying themselves to sleep, watching LFC being sold for £4bn. That's more than the two of them were ever worth put together.

It says a lot, that we’ve moved on from them onwards and upwards, but my despising of them outweighs anything else in football to this day.

The blow me fuck face email to a fan, the way they talked down to us, the clear deterioration of Rafa’s health under them. The list goes on.

For some reason, Tom Hicks is the one that brought my ire the most, but that’s because George was clever at going under the radar like a weasel.

I’m getting vexed just thinking about them.

Offline Sharado

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6483 on: November 24, 2022, 12:17:42 pm »
Unless he has got wind they have a new man coming in (who might just be an old face)?


I mean I really, really hope it's this.
3 midfielders minimum in the next window. And probably another young CB to boot.

Anything else is negligent.

Offline Ray K

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6484 on: November 24, 2022, 12:17:52 pm »
This is not good news. 
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6485 on: November 24, 2022, 12:18:19 pm »
This is not good news. 

Well don't type it then

Offline Smudge

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6486 on: November 24, 2022, 12:19:43 pm »
Sale soon...............

Offline Qston

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6487 on: November 24, 2022, 12:21:37 pm »
Paul Joyce has just confirmed that Julian Ward is stepping down at the end of the season, lots of change on the way it seems

Must be honest. This has unsettled me a little more than talk of a sale. Our backroom staff have been a significant part of our success in recent years.
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Offline Fordy

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6488 on: November 24, 2022, 12:28:21 pm »
Unless he has got wind they have a new man coming in (who might just be an old face)?

But even so, surely better to get a pay off than to resign?

He will get a pay off no matter what I would have thought.

He moves out of the way for the new takeover and someone else coming in. He’s not stupid. Somethings must be going on in the background.

Offline Sharado

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6489 on: November 24, 2022, 12:29:17 pm »
Somethings must be going on in the background.

Indeed. I think in the coming weeks/months we're likely to find ourselves very happy or pretty unhappy and I'm not sure there's going to be much in between.
3 midfielders minimum in the next window. And probably another young CB to boot.

Anything else is negligent.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6490 on: November 24, 2022, 12:29:46 pm »
Telegraph, was going to start a thread but this will do so no point.


Liverpool sporting director Julian Ward quits just six months after Michael Edwards' departure

Ward has informed owners Fenway Sports Group he wants to take a break from football at the end of the current season

ByChris Bascombe24 November 2022 • 12:00pm

Liverpool sporting director Julian Ward has quit just six months into his role as one of the club’s key executives.

Ward replaced the highly-rated Michael Edwards during the summer but has informed owners Fenway Sports Group he wants to take a break from football at the end of the 2022-23 season. He will stay in post until the summer.

Liverpool sources have described the decision as ‘unexpected and disappointing’ and insist a sense of continuity in recruitment will be retained with head of recruitment Dave Fallows and chief scout Barry Hunter possible successors.


But there is no escaping a sense of a prolonged period of stability at the top of Liverpool unravelling with Ward’s decision so closely following Edwards’ departure, FSG President Michael Gordon ‘stepping back’ from day-to-day duties, and - most significantly - the owners actively inviting bids for their shares.


The club’s owners now face a huge task to reassure that what from the outside appears to be a tumultuous period is not representative of what is going on inside the club. Advertisement


Ward has been at Liverpool eleven years and worked closely with Edwards, so there is bound to be speculation he may reconnect with his mentor once he has made his next move. But Liverpool’s owners have been told Ward has no intention of immediately assuming a new role elsewhere.


he Liverpool-born director was promoted in the aftermath of Edwards’ quitting and hit the ground running by securing a new deal for Mohamed Salah and the signing of Darwin Nunez, which may be worth £85 million. He also negotiated the sale of Sadio Mane to Bayern Munich.



Ward was at the forefront of the ongoing transfer strategy and will still be in charge of luring manager Jurgen Klopp’s transfer targets for next season - England star Jude Bellingham top of that list.


Liverpool say Klopp will be integral to determining the recruitment model they adopt moving forward. The manager remains the most important football figure at Anfield and is said to be calm about the changes around him. That cannot disguise the speed and extent of those executive moves.


Gordon has allowed chief executive Billy Hogan to assume many of his day-to-day duties. Hogan is a highly respected figure with strong relationships with everyone at the club.


Liverpool also believe the backroom team of analysts assembled by Edwards and Ward will ensure there will be no disintegration of a recruitment department which has been the envy of the Premier League in terms of the value for money of the overwhelming majority of signings since Klopp's appointment in 2015.


But there has been criticism of the club recently that the spending limits are taking their toll on their ability to keep pace with Manchester City, Liverpool unable to offer rival packages for some of the highest salaried players.


Klopp said recently 'Liverpool cannot compete' and recent events give substance to that claim, reflected in the announcement that FSG is seeking new investment. It remains to be seen how influential that sense of having to keep up with a material economic disadvantage has been on the decision of two highly rated sporting directors.


Edwards and Ward were under immense pressure to deliver superstar signings at a club which - despite all its recent success - is still having to sell big before spending big.


To lose one sporting director could be considered unfortunate.


To lose the shrewdest man in the Anfield boardroom might be thought worrying.


To lose another sporting director within the space of six months looks careless.


Throw in Liverpool owner Fenway Sports Group’s willingness to sell their shares and you can be forgiven for thinking the executive branch of Anfield is unravelling.


The image is evoked of Jurgen Klopp returning to the training ground after the World Cup entrusted with extinguishing a raging bonfire, the top of the club seemingly as unstable as at any time since 2010 as Julian Ward became the latest to issue his intention to vacate the premises.


Mercifully, Liverpool are not quite yet at the Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr state of emergency yet, but no matter what spin is put on recent events, the optics are worrying.


At least Klopp committed to a new deal last summer, and his remarks after Liverpool’s last home game against Southampton that he will stay ‘no matter what’ now seem more pertinent than ever. Nobody is more important to Liverpool than him. He is the chief architect of the Anfield renaissance, those around benefiting from touching the hem of his greatness.


But that cannot downplay the significance of the executive changes given how much Liverpool’s progress owes to a prolonged period of serenity.


Ward informed FSG of his intention to quit as sporting director just before the World Cup began. Klopp, who once described the ‘sporting director’ title as an example of ‘giving a dog a new name’ is understood to be more relaxed about developments than those on the outside looking in.


Talk to the right people at Liverpool and they will say the timing of each announcement is coincidental and unrelated.


Michael Edwards left as sporting director last summer because he wanted a break, re-energising himself for an as yet unspecified fresh challenge. There is some surprise that he has not turned up at a Premier League rival yet, especially as he has been linked with similar roles at Chelsea and Manchester United.


FSG president Gordon’s decision to step aside from day to day duties (he has always worked from the United States anyway) is thought to be more about the capability of England-based chief executive Billy Hogan to assume more powers. Gordon has reduced his powers of responsibility rather than completely disconnected.


Ward, meanwhile, was thought to have his dream job when he replaced his mentor last summer, and was credited with ending the Mohamed Salah contract impasse and swiftly negotiating Darwin Nunez’s transfer.


But when so much happens within such a short period, it is inevitable dots will be connected. It cannot be shrugged aside how openly Liverpool are conceding the difficulty they are having in keeping pace with Manchester City at the top of the Premier League.
There is an unavoidable sense of everyone at Anfield believing they have taken the club as far as they can without another injection of cash. We are not yet in the midst of a takeover saga circa 2003-10, but those who remember that period will feel it is in the post. That creates an uncertainty which - if not handled astutely - can contaminate on-field performances.


Liverpool fans are entitled to be concerned. No wonder they are watching Jude Bellingham’s England performances with mixed emotions.


Every touch of class in England’s first game against Iran led to whatsapp message pings of ‘best add another £25 million on the asking price’. The more Bellingham’s price soars, the less likely it is he is Anfield bound.


Like it or not, the announcement FSG are inviting offers for the club increases the pressure on them to deliver a big signing at the end of the season. If they fail to sign Bellingham after making it known the club is waiting a year ‘to get the right midfielder rather than any midfielder’ there will be accusations they are more interested in selling the club and reaping the rewards of a £4 billion dividend than the long-term health of the team. Why care about the next four years if you may not be around? That would be simplistic and unfair. That is football.


The reality is Bellingham, valued at more than £100 million, already looks beyond Liverpool’s means unless a new investor is found, or another star player is sold. Liverpool could only buy Darwin Nunez and afford Mohamed Salah’s new contract because they sacrificed Sadio Mane.


No matter how vociferously it is argued otherwise, it is hard to believe that reality did not impact Edwards' decision a year ago, and has not had some bearing on Ward moving on so soon.


Not for the first time, it will be left to Klopp to reassure that appearances are deceptive and Liverpool are not about to regress.


After the last major sporting event in Qatar, December 2019 World Club Cup, Telegraph Sport’s match report on Liverpool’s win read thus: “There is no question the influence of sporting director Michael Edwards and FSG president Mike Gordon - and the shrewdness of John W Henry and Tom Werner in getting those appointments pitch perfect - is fundamental to facilitating Klopp's work.”


Edwards has gone, Gordon’s workload has reduced, and he, Henry and Werner are open to the idea of selling their stake.


It is not quite the end of an era at Anfield, but unless there is a billionaire who prefers owning Liverpool rather than Manchester United it is threatening to be the beginning of the end of one.
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Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6491 on: November 24, 2022, 12:30:02 pm »
This doesn’t feel like good news but I don’t know what it could mean.

Offline TwitterJayy

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6492 on: November 24, 2022, 12:31:50 pm »
This doesn’t feel like good news but I don’t know what it could mean.
The football bubble is about to burst.

FSG selling is a massive indication of that.

Offline liverbnz

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6493 on: November 24, 2022, 12:32:01 pm »
It will be interesting to hear the story behind all this stuff that happened over the last few years. Something hasn’t felt right for quite a while. That Henderson contract was not something I think that Edward’s and his team would have sanctioned and now he’s gone. His replacement is gone and now head of research is seemingly going. Sounds like a power shift happened somewhere along the line and what we have left is an old team and an unstable back room. Well that’s the glass half empty view :-)
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Offline Simplexity

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6494 on: November 24, 2022, 12:38:04 pm »
I swear Bellingham is some collective psychosis at this point. He is a good player, but you would think we were missing out on Messi the way the club goes on about this bloke.

Offline NaivetyinBlack

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6495 on: November 24, 2022, 12:43:28 pm »
The reality is Bellingham, valued at more than £100 million, already looks beyond Liverpool’s means unless a new investor is found, or another star player is sold. Liverpool could only buy Darwin Nunez and afford Mohamed Salah’s new contract because they sacrificed Sadio Mane.


No matter how vociferously it is argued otherwise, it is hard to believe that reality did not impact Edwards' decision a year ago, and has not had some bearing on Ward moving on so soon.


Not for the first time, it will be left to Klopp to reassure that appearances are deceptive and Liverpool are not about to regress.

Al 555, vindicated ?

Also, it is very concerning, considering the top execs (except Hogan) have all left or will leave. The entire leadership structure at the boardroom level needs to be built and there is a lot of uncertainty which comes with that.

Offline tubby

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6496 on: November 24, 2022, 12:44:53 pm »
Ward might be heading off to shack up with Edwards, wherever he turns up next.
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6497 on: November 24, 2022, 12:45:54 pm »
Where are people getting the Ian Graham news from?
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline HeartAndSoul

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6498 on: November 24, 2022, 12:45:56 pm »
That story from bascombe confirms everything that we already knew. We’re operating on a sell to buy basis and those saying we’d have got tchouameni on top of nunez were really living in a bubble of their own. The fact that it states that we need to sell one of our stars to buy big money signing is really grim. If these lot stay on, wouldn’t be surprised if we’re back to signing moneyball signings.


Offline Bergersrightwingviews

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6499 on: November 24, 2022, 12:46:23 pm »
Paul Joyce has just confirmed that Julian Ward is stepping down at the end of the season, lots of change on the way it seems

Very disappointing.
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Offline FLRed67

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6500 on: November 24, 2022, 12:47:00 pm »
Did he jump? Or was he pushed?

And does anyone know why we should care?

Offline Sharado

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6501 on: November 24, 2022, 12:47:06 pm »
If these lot stay on, wouldn’t be surprised if we’re back to signing moneyball signings.

No idea what you mean by this really, but our recruitment 16-18 was the best in the world.

3 midfielders minimum in the next window. And probably another young CB to boot.

Anything else is negligent.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6502 on: November 24, 2022, 12:47:22 pm »
Getting silly now. There's never a good time to put a football club up for sale, and we know FSG are notorious for dropping clangers, but this is the biggest clanger that ever clanged to get dropped.

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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6503 on: November 24, 2022, 12:47:55 pm »
That story from bascombe confirms everything that we already knew. We’re operating on a sell to buy basis and those saying we’d have got tchouameni on top of nunez were really living in a bubble of their own. The fact that it states that we need to sell one of our stars to buy big money signing is really grim. If these lot stay on, wouldn’t be surprised if we’re back to signing moneyball signings.

Chris Bascombe, that paragon of virtue, definitely 100% knows the inner workings of our club and exactly what we could do in the transfer market last summer. I've no doubt about it.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6504 on: November 24, 2022, 12:47:58 pm »
So Bascombe is now seen as a legit source? :D
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Sharado

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6505 on: November 24, 2022, 12:48:43 pm »
Did he jump? Or was he pushed?

And does anyone know why we should care?

I can't answer the first two but the final question - this level of disruption at the top of a football club is rarely good news. The only way it may have some sort of silver lining is if a sale, to people who aren't completely objectionable, is imminent. Otherwise it points to chaos and unrest in an area we've been very successful in across recent years.
3 midfielders minimum in the next window. And probably another young CB to boot.

Anything else is negligent.

Offline NaivetyinBlack

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6506 on: November 24, 2022, 12:49:22 pm »
So Bascombe is now seen as a legit source? :D

Paul Joyce at Times is saying pretty much the same things.

Offline Sharado

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6507 on: November 24, 2022, 12:50:32 pm »
So Bascombe is now seen as a legit source? :D

Paul Joyce was the first to report this and it's absolutely everywhere now.
3 midfielders minimum in the next window. And probably another young CB to boot.

Anything else is negligent.

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6508 on: November 24, 2022, 12:51:20 pm »
Paul Joyce was the first to report this and it's absolutely everywhere now.

Is he saying the same stuff about sell to buy and that's the reason he's leaving?

And again where is this Ian Graham news?
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6509 on: November 24, 2022, 12:54:15 pm »
Paul Joyce at Times is saying pretty much the same things.

Paul Joyce has said that we can only afford Bellingham if we sell a star player, that we could only afford to sign Nunez (£65 million odd) and give Salah a new contract because we sold Mane (£30 million odd) and that both Edwards and now Ward are leaving because they're not happy with that sort of financial outlook....? Do you have a source?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline ScouserAtHeart

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6510 on: November 24, 2022, 12:54:38 pm »
If we believed a sale was imminent, this shouldn't come as a massive surprise, should it? New owners hardly ever keep the same people in the same structure
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Offline NaivetyinBlack

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6511 on: November 24, 2022, 12:54:56 pm »
Is he saying the same stuff about sell to buy and that's the reason he's leaving?

There's belief that FSG's "sell to buy" ownership model is reaching the end of its shelf life - Paul Joyce (Times)

Offline Asam

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6512 on: November 24, 2022, 12:57:48 pm »
Paul Joyce has said that we can only afford Bellingham if we sell a star player, that we could only afford to sign Nunez (£65 million odd) and give Salah a new contract because we sold Mane (£30 million odd) and that both Edwards and now Ward are leaving because they're not happy with that sort of financial outlook....? Do you have a source?

How many better sources than Paul Joyce are there when it comes to Liverpool? please name them


Offline El Lobo

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6513 on: November 24, 2022, 12:58:39 pm »
How many better sources than Paul Joyce are there when it comes to Liverpool? please name them

NativityInBlack?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Norse Red

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6514 on: November 24, 2022, 01:01:50 pm »
There's belief that FSG's "sell to buy" ownership model is reaching the end of its shelf life - Paul Joyce (Times)
And with a potential new owner like “Harris Blitzer Sports & Entertainment” Or "Stephen Pagliuca and Bain Capital", that kind of transfer policy is most likely to continue.
Depressing…

Offline Agent99

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6515 on: November 24, 2022, 01:05:08 pm »
Quote
Friction between Klopp and Ward has been there for some time. The Manager sees Firmino and Milner as integral cogs in his machine but Ward doesn't see value in giving old cloggers new contracts - Paul Joyce (The Times)

Offline Norse Red

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6516 on: November 24, 2022, 01:06:46 pm »
Outside of a nation state it's the only model that a club is going to have over a longer period. Not many are just going to pump in £100m+ every few years to cover a rebuild.
Modern football like it once was is broken. The game is gone, that thanks to "the state-owned club model".
Are football ever going to recover?

Offline ScouserAtHeart

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6517 on: November 24, 2022, 01:07:30 pm »
"Jürgen Klopp is bringing Liverpool's 'fuck you' back. And I can't wait."

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6518 on: November 24, 2022, 01:09:11 pm »
That has to be made up

Couldn't be, it was co-signed by Chris Bascombe so it must be true.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline DelTrotter

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6519 on: November 24, 2022, 01:10:15 pm »
Graham resigned too according to Orny.