Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[Zeb]

Some of the advice from the scientists to government has been redacted to go up on the .gov website.

Guardian has more than just the quote.

The report, from 1 April, summarised SPI-B’s ["the Sage subcommittee providing advice from behavioural scientists on how the public might respond to lockdown measures"] discussions about how to handle possible changes to the social distancing measures that had just been introduced to slow the spread of Covid-19.

In the version published on Sage’s government website, almost a page and a half of text was heavily redacted. The Guardian understands the blocked text related to SPI–B’s criticism about possible government proposals around that time.

These included the idea of reducing the amount of time Britons could spend exercising or shopping, and stricter financial penalties for those found to be breaking the lockdown. A third proposal involved requiring people to self-validate their movements, as was occurring in France, where citizens were required to complete permits before leaving home.

Experts on SPI-B, which includes professors in psychology, epidemiology and anthropology, said they felt the proposals were too punitive and more likely to result in unfair treatment among people in deprived economic circumstances.

A spokesperson for the Government Office for Science said the redactions took place because the policies discussed in the document were still under consideration.

“The only redactions relate to comments made by a Sage subgroup where specific reference is made to policy still under consideration or to remove contact,” the spokesperson said.

“Redactions were carried out by officials working for the Sage secretariat in consultation with the department developing the policy. All the subgroups were notified and given the opportunity to comment in advance of publication on the redactions being made to specific elements of any papers.”

However, SPI–B advisers who spoke to the Guardian disputed that they had been consulted. “We weren’t given advance notice and we still haven’t been given a satisfactory explanation,” the second SPI–B member said, adding they felt the redaction had been intended to stifle criticism.

“This government has failed to show any self-criticism whatsoever, when it is glaringly obvious to everybody that big mistakes have been made. If you want the trust of the population you hold up your hand and you say ‘we’ve made these mistakes, this is why they happened, we regret it, we’re learning from it’. Rather than just keep saying ‘we’ve done the most fantastic job’ and not being open to criticism in any way.”

Kind of interesting too for what didn't happen in comparison to the proposals being critiqued for 'let's make lockdown harsher'.

[CraigDS]

The problem is that people are hearing Johnson boasting he will be easing lockdown despite what all the others are now saying, and people are jumping the gun.
Was out on my bike this morning for my exercise and the roads were busier than a normal Saturday morning at 9am. Lots more cars and the tesco local had an organised queue outside. Lots of people out walking most socially distanced, lots of families on bikes (good to see) but increasingly gangs of lads - teenagers upwards to twenties - using bikes to cover for their day out to the sea side at Crosby - the backpacks are the giveaway.

Yeah I agree with that, and the Govt. (and media) really need to get on the same page and be extremely clear in their message and make sure this is backed up by the police actually being seen to take those flouting it to task.

[UntouchableLuis]

Our neighbour next door has had her grandkids over continually. Seems the routine of granny minding the kids every now and then has been a constant. This lady is probably in her mid to late 60s but seems happy to have about half a dozen kids come visit and play every few days.
She seems a sensible type so the mind boggles.

I suppose if her family is being sensible and none of them have had any symptoms etc but it seems a big risk to take.

We live in a block of flats with several elderly people. Most of them have been pretty much locked away for the duration (in fact the couple next door were very poorly at one stage and we went and got prescriptions for them and left them outside their door as their children live in a different City so they have no one)

But there's one woman downstairs who is in her mid to late 70s I think who has been having family round occasionally. Today she is sitting outside on the front lawn bit with 8 different people - assuming her family, mostly adults, a few kids who are probably grandkids. They're having food and drinks and sitting apart but the grandkids are getting very close to different people from the odd times I've looked out the window.

I just feel it's wrong personally- we all want to go and see our family. I think if the other elderly residents look out their window they'll feel aggrieved as they're doing what they've been told to do and protecting their health.

Is a picnic on the lawn really worth potential serious illness or worse?

Again though this comes from complete mixed messages from the Government.

[Zeb]

An attempt to estimate the number of people who'd caught it up to lockdown using critical care numbers: https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.18.2000632;jsessionid=aO9o5oodFHSvx7kuEguBNoJ7.i-0b3d9850f4681504f-ecdclive#html_fulltext

Summary is that they reckon about 500k in total with about 120k of them being new on the 23rd March. Suggestion that it might be a slight overestimate as it assumes that people's behaviour didn't change prior to lockdown (lots of things pointing to a some sort of shift prior to then). Would seem to also suggest that while tested and reported cases were miles out from reality so too are estimates that millions had already had it by then. Wonder when they'll try to do an estimate for the following weeks.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

What is the obsession with Garden centres having to open? I am guessing its to appease the old Tories?

The cafes in there will be closed as well.

Gardening, well "proper gardening" i.e. growing food is not a Tory thing, it's actually one of the most fulfilling, rewarding, self reliant and anarchistic things you can do. 

[Currywurst]

Had a Zoom meeting of our local foodbank trustees yesterday. Manager reported that we'd had loads of calls from people in isolation who'd had government food boxes sent, but didn't need or want them (or didn't want some of the contents), so were offering them to us instead. Shows the problems with centralised actions with blanket coverage, rather than better informed and targeted local services.

You can cancel these deliveries, but this also appears to mean you lose your priority rating for supermarket deliveries.

[reddebs]

I just feel it's wrong personally- we all want to go and see our family. I think if the other elderly residents look out their window they'll feel aggrieved as they're doing what they've been told to do and protecting their health.

Is a picnic on the lawn really worth potential serious illness or worse?

Again though this comes from complete mixed messages from the Government.

I don't think it does come from mixed messages mate it's personal choice.  Yes it's selfish, stupid, dangerous even but they've made the choice to ignore the advice.

Having witnessed so much of it myself and talked to those who've not set foot outside their boundary walls and not allowed anyone in either, they're annoyed by it but it won't and doesn't make them think oh I'll take the risk, everyone else is.

Some people will live out their lives as they see fit, they'd probably be digging tunnels to escape if you planted coppers at every doorway to prevent them leaving.

At least the vast majority of us are playing by the rules so hopefully that'll be enough to see it through for us all.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[CraigDS]

I don't think it does come from mixed messages mate it's personal choice.  Yes it's selfish, stupid, dangerous even but they've made the choice to ignore the advice.

Having witnessed so much of it myself and talked to those who've not set foot outside their boundary walls and not allowed anyone in either, they're annoyed by it but it won't and doesn't make them think oh I'll take the risk, everyone else is.

Some people will live out their lives as they see fit, they'd probably be digging tunnels to escape if you planted coppers at every doorway to prevent them leaving.

At least the vast majority of us are playing by the rules so hopefully that'll be enough to see it through for us all.

It only takes you coming in to contact with one of them for you to catch it though, and your life, and your loved ones you live with, being put at risk.

[Jon2lfc]

Seen quite a few people now not strictly doing what the government are saying.

i.e. groups of people just chilling in the parks (too many in some groups to assume they're all from one household).

Some lads even playing cricket and footy - small numbers, so might be from same household.

And neighbours having the odd person round now and again and sitting down together in the back garden having tea / dinner / lunch.

I reckon the conversations prior to these gatherings would be something like this:

A: "Have you got any covid symptoms?"
B: "Nah. Been fine for weeks"
A: "Me too. Ok, fancy popping out / coming round?"

And I reckon the majority of people like the above are fine being in the same spot as long as no one sneezes or coughs on the other.

It's as simple as that.
People are carrying on because they believe you can't transmit it in fresh air and just by chatting to each other.

Also people aren't stupid.
The briefings have been showing the new cases and death curves every day now. And the curves have gone flat.
The government are damned if they do and damned if they don't. When the curves were upward, the Gov't kept on trying to reinforce their lockdown measures by saying they were aiming for flattening the curves before things could begin to get back to normal.
Well, guess what. The curves have now flattened. And the Gov't aren't talking about flat curves anymore - even though it's a good sign. Because they need a new aim to keep the lockdown going.

[reddebs]

It only takes you coming in to contact with one of them for you to catch it though, and your life, and your loved ones you live with, being put at risk.

I know mate and that's the selfish bit of it all.

Take Paul's work for example.

The boss has put every measure in place to keep them safe whilst working yet the neighbours I've been complaining about having family and friends in and out and partying, their mother works there and she's been visiting all her family the whole time.

She's not just risking her and her family but her colleagues too and now I've been told to back off complaining cos the family are some sort of big wig drug dealers in the area and you dont wanna mess with them.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Agent99]

A few places near me that have been closed since the lockdown were open yesterday. Don't know if they are expecting lockdown measures to allow them to re-open or they just aren't bothered any more.

[WhoHe]

My neighbours have people around again for drinks did the same all day/night last Saturday, dont seem to give a shit, they never do the Thursday clapping either but bet they would be first in the queue if they got ill. She works for LFC as well so if any of our players catch it I'm blaming her.

[El Denzel Pepito]

Bristol now...

https://twitter.com/bristolhoppers/status/1258734799507853314?s=21

[CraigDS]

Bristol now...

https://twitter.com/bristolhoppers/status/1258734799507853314?s=21

See, now where are the police shutting the place selling the beer down? Looks like an obvious place for them to be patrolling.

[12C]

Bristol now...

https://twitter.com/bristolhoppers/status/1258734799507853314?s=21

We’ve just had a call from a friend to say her dad passed away in his care home yesterday from a chest infection. He had it for a fortnight!
And this is happening 

[TSC]

Some of the advice from the scientists to government has been redacted to go up on the .gov website.

Guardian has more than just the quote.

Kind of interesting too for what didn't happen in comparison to the proposals being critiqued for 'let's make lockdown harsher'.

So redacted text appears to primarily relate to criticism of government with a quote referring to government as ‘Stalinist’.

Wonder why government redacted such content.

Interesting point is that comments come from a sub-group/s of Sage, so effectively come from Sage itself.  Surely that contradicts the government line peddled of ‘following the science’ to attempt to hide behind/blame Sage for government decisions/non-decisions.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

See, now where are the police shutting the place selling the beer down? Looks like an obvious place for them to be patrolling.

And they'll probably be out hassling lone people/small family groups out on the hills in complete isolation this weekend. But then hill walking doesn't make anyone any money.

 

[killer-heels]

I am all for authoritarian rule but during a walk through the park there is a small basketball court and a PCSO told off a couple and their 4/5 year old for playing in there. Bit harsh.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Just seen pubs may reopen in August but for gyms it’s October, ridiculous

[CraigDS]

Just seen pubs may reopen in August but for gyms it’s October, ridiculous

I imagine you can quite easily socially distance in a pub - limit the numbers in, limit the tables in use, etc. Even more so in a beer garden (ban the smokers, obv).

Gyms though you've got a lot of heavy breathing going on, you'd guess that the distance required to socially distance would be increased from your normal 2m.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

I am all for authoritarian rule but during a walk through the park there is a small basketball court and a PCSO told off a couple and their 4/5 year old for playing in there. Bit harsh.

I suspect there's loads of over-reaction and targeting of the wrong people going on, not only but the police but also overzealous public. Meanwhile I wonder if those pubs in Bristol have been shut down yet?

[killer-heels]

Just seen pubs may reopen in August but for gyms it’s October, ridiculous

Where have you read that?

[Thepooloflife]

Just seen pubs may reopen in August but for gyms it’s October, ridiculous

Where've you seen that - does seem ridiculous, what's the difference......if anything gyms slightly safer, with social distancing......pubs is a free for all ?!

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Just seen pubs may reopen in August but for gyms it’s October, ridiculous

More cash and particularly tax from pubs.

I imagine you can quite easily socially distance in a pub - limit the numbers in, limit the tables in use, etc. Even more so in a beer garden (ban the smokers, obv).

Gyms though you've got a lot of heavy breathing going on, you'd guess that the distance required to socially distance would be increased from your normal 2m.

Why ban the smokers beer gardens are in the open air. It may be easier to socially distance in a pub, depends how big it is. Some gyms are very large - limit the numbers in.

[CraigDS]

Why ban the smokers beer gardens are in the open air.

It's a running joke on here (mainly in the small things that annoy you thread)

It may be easier to socially distance in a pub, depends how big it is. Some gyms are very large - limit the numbers in.

Smaller pubs would have less in, bigger pubs more. Doesn't matter the size, the number would be limited by the ability to socially distance within.

Yeah, could limit numbers in gyms. Doesn't help if you want to use the machine next to someone. You'd have to police that pretty strongly. Question still remains if 2m would be enough in a gym too - heavy breathing must surely spread further than normal.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

[Zeb]

Pubs reopening in August sounds like the leak the Mirror reckons it's got of the full blueprint to be announced.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-drafts-5-step-21986668

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson'S FIVE-STAGE PLAN

1. From Monday
Unlimited exercise allowed. Employees to be encouraged to return to workplaces that have stayed open through- out the lockdown if safe. Garden centres could reopen while there may be more guidance on the use of outdoor spaces including open-air markets, high streets and cemeteries.

2. End of May/Start of June
Phased return of primary schools in England, starting with Year 6. Households could be allowed to expand “social bubble” to meet one other household of family or friends.

3. June (End)
Phased return of secondary schools in England before the summer holidays. Small team sports such as five-a-side football could be allowed, along with outdoor gatherings of fewer than 30 people. Cafes with outdoor seating could reopen while outdoor sports like golf, tennis and angling might resume. Possible return of Premier League matches, although behind closed doors.

4. End of August/Start of September
Pubs, bars and restaurants could gradually reopen although customers would be expected to follow strict social distancing rules.

5. October
Possible return of football fans to matches. Gyms could be allowed to re-open. But any further lifting of restrictions to get back to normal life would be in doubt amid fears of a second wave of coronavirus or an outbreak of seasonal flu.

Add salt cos there's a lot of 'could' to it even if it is an accurate take on part of what government will announce. Other side to it is how they'll then re-close things as numbers of cases start heading up again at some point.

[Statto Red]

Just seen pubs may reopen in August but for gyms it’s October, ridiculous

Cant see pubs opening until a vaccine is found, some of them are that small you can't swing a cat, & the more money that c*nt that owns spoons loses is a good thing.

[CraigDS]

Cant see pubs opening until a vaccine is found, some of them are that small you can't swing a cat, & the more money that c*nt that owns spoons loses is a good thing.

Are a lot more decent owners / landlords out there who would go under before he was really hit.

[Guz-kop]

Yeah i know garden centres are open and i don't have a problem with that.

No dlfferent than the asda etc being open and stuff from there gives people something they can do in garden, either on own or with kids....my lad likes planting stuff and watching it grow.

This is the problem. Haven't been to a supermarket yet where there has been proper social distancing. Queues outside yeah but once inside everyone's breathing all over each other

[TSC]

Another non-appearance today by our esteemed leader in daily briefing.  Eustace draws the short straw.  Rural affairs minister. 

You gov poll just out according to news report;

75% don’t want lockdown ended now
80% would like some measures eased in 3 weeks time (don’t know which measures)

[TSC]

UK new deaths 626
UK new cases 4,689

[Speedy Molby]

Are a lot more decent owners / landlords out there who would go under before he was really hit.

Mate who runs a pub told me he would lose more money opening with social distancing than he would staying closed. Sadly, I think this could be the case for most pubs.

[TepidT2O]

Pubs reopening in August sounds like the leak the Mirror reckons it's got of the full blueprint to be announced.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-drafts-5-step-21986668

Add salt cos there's a lot of 'could' to it even if it is an accurate take on part of what government will announce. Other side to it is how they'll then re-close things as numbers of cases start heading up again at some point.

There will be a second wave of the virus ..... so I’m really looking for policies that reflect that...  why can’t we be honest with people?

[Zeb]

Mate who runs a pub told me he would lose more money opening with social distancing than he would staying closed. Sadly, I think this could be the case for most pubs.

Also true for a lot of small restaurants which need to fill 75% of their tables to be sustainable.

[kellan]

Have I missed something re: schools. Are they still going to be closing for the summer or is this a case of once they reopen the new school year starts?

Because if it is the former, why bother reopening them just a few weeks before they would typically be closing for the summer? With exams already cancelled, what need is there for pupils to go back for such a short period. And if it is a phased return then that short period will be even shorter for some.

[TSC]

Whizzed past the slide there confirming that daily test total is again short of the 100k figure. 

[CraigDS]

Mate who runs a pub told me he would lose more money opening with social distancing than he would staying closed. Sadly, I think this could be the case for most pubs.

Yeah, have heard similar. There would have to be supportive measures (financial) in place still if the Govt. wants them opened back up again.

[killer-heels]

Mate who runs a pub told me he would lose more money opening with social distancing than he would staying closed. Sadly, I think this could be the case for most pubs.

Yeah friend of mine owns one of those fancy vegan cafes and she says its cheaper to stay shut.

[ShakaHislop]

Have I missed something re: schools. Are they still going to be closing for the summer or is this a case of once they reopen the new school year starts?

Because if it is the former, why bother reopening them just a few weeks before they would typically be closing for the summer? With exams already cancelled, what need is there for pupils to go back for such a short period. And if it is a phased return then that short period will be even shorter for some.

I don't know if this is part of the government's thinking but one reason might be that it makes it easier for parents to return to work, as they won't have to worry about childcare.