Author Topic: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.  (Read 41995 times)

Offline tommy LFC

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The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« on: July 31, 2013, 02:31:21 pm »
With Pepe going out on loan and Skrtel seemingly set to follow, a lot of us have been questioning the logic of it, none more so than myself.

I found this interesting article on TIA and felt it was worth sharing. It made me calm down a bit and take a look at the bigger picture. This article shows just how crazy our wage structure was/is. Now, it's very positive saving all this money on wages, but it will only work if those wages are reinvested in top class, ready for the first team players. For example, the only way I want to see Martin Skrtel loaned out is if he is replaced by someone like Kyriakos Papadopolous and not, with all due respect, Tiago Ilori.

Anyway, here's the article, and I guess it begs the questions - are we going about our departures in a good way? It's hard to argue with the numbers, but don't forget Skrtel and Reina could easily be back next year.

It's easy to be wary of FSG but these numbers are incredible. They're saving £500,000 a week. £2 million a month. £24 million a year. While some of this has been reinvested in wages for new players, lets hope the rest is too. Wisely.

Here it is:
...

The decision to loan Pepe Reina to Napoli, coupled with the reported potential loan move of Martin Skrtel to the Italian side, has been met with criticism from some sections of the Liverpool support.

The truth is though, that Liverpool owners Fenway Sports Group are applying financial sense by offloading high-earning players whose place within the squad is not proportionate to their salary.

Martin Skrtel is on a reported £70,000 per week, yet he is not considered a starting player under Brendan Rodgers. The club would have been happy to sell the Slovakian this summer had the right offer arrived. So far it hasn’t, and thus they are happy to remove his wages and therefore free up a place within the squad. You can’t simply keep a player on 70 grand a week just to make up numbers – especially when you aren’t in Europe.

Similarly, Reina was on a reported £100,000 per week wage. Once the decision to sign Simon Mignolet – whether you agree with it or not – was made, it would have been absurd to pay a reserve keeper that amount – one of the highest earners at the club.

Another player to have left the club this summer, although under entirely different circumstances, is Jamie Carragher. The legendary defender was on a similar wage to Reina.

That’s over a quarter of a million pounds removed from the weekly wage bill already.

It was reported early on after their acquisition of the club that FSG were shocked by the size of Liverpool’s wage bill, especially players on vast wages who were not key members of the squad.

What Liverpool want now is for a player’s wages to match his worth within the squad. That’s why tough decisions must be made.

Take Stewart Downing, reportedly on £70,000 per week but despite an improved second half of last season, not viewed as a key player and could be even less so this season after new arrivals. If the right bid arrived, it would make sense to sell him.

Another high value departure this summer has been Andy Carroll, on a reported £85,000 per week.

Add in the sale of Jonjo Shelvey, imminent departures of Ousamma Assaidi and Jay Spearing and you have a total of all those who have left the club this summer of around half a million pounds per week. Over £20m per year.

This follows on from last year were high-earners Alberto Aquilani (£90k), Joe Cole (£90k), Dirk Kuyt (£70k), Maxi (£70k), Craig Bellamy (£70K) and Charlie Adam (£50k) have also left the club. Add that together and the total amount saved per week following departures in the last year is closer to one million pounds.

Of course, Liverpool have signed players during this time and given improved contracts to key players such as Luis Suarez, Daniel Agger and Steven Gerrard. The point is that those three are on contracts that are in accordance with their place within the squad.

Next time you hear somebody moaning about loaning out Martin Skrtel, a player who started FOUR Premier League games since the turn of the year, think of the bigger picture.

Remember what owner John Henry wrote in his open letter to the fans almost a year ago:

"We will build and grow from within, buy prudently and cleverly and never again waste resources on inflated transfer fees and unrealistic wages. We have no fear of spending and competing with the very best but we will not overpay for players.

We will never place this club in the precarious position that we found it in when we took over at Anfield. This club should never again run up debts that threaten its existence."


Liverpool are building sensibly and economically. It takes patience and perspective to see this – which is often in short supply among some supporters.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 04:30:05 pm by tommyLFC »
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Offline Red Reign

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2013, 02:40:07 pm »
That's a lot of money! If it's reinvested wisely back into the club I'm all for this model.
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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2013, 02:40:54 pm »
That Stefan Gethard chap is on 140,000 English Pounds a week!.... Thats like loads a day and he's 33 and a 1/3. Long player I hear you say, but fucking hell - if we're going to get our wage bill down, we need to get shut of this chappy asap.


I'm thinking, if we can get the wage bill down to a bare minimum, the club can start paying us to show up. Its not like they'd be able to spend it on anyone now is it.

What about PAYE, are they still in that and do they get sick-pay? I'd look at reducing that as well if we can.
   
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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2013, 02:46:41 pm »
Enough cost-cutting has been done to the wages as it is, most of it fairly successfully to be fair.

But we shouldn't be looking to loan out players like Martin Skrtel for the same reason, that would just be absurd given our current situation with centre-backs.

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2013, 02:49:42 pm »
I get what they're doing but we need players to take us to the next level. We simply need two first team players in quickly.
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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2013, 02:49:57 pm »
Spells it out nice and simply, but is nothing which a lot of us have been saying for a while on here.

You only have to compare our wages in the last accounts (to May 2012) of approx £131m (worked up to 12 months) to that of Spurs for the same period of approx £90m to see how bloated out wage bill was.

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2013, 02:50:14 pm »
That Stefan Gethard chap is on 140,000 English Pounds a week!.... Thats like loads a day and he's 33 and a 1/3. Long player I hear you say, but fucking hell - if we're going to get our wage bill down, we need to get shut of this chappy asap.


I'm thinking, if we can get the wage bill down to a bare minimum, the club can start paying us to show up. Its not like they'd be able to spend it on anyone now is it.

What about PAYE, are they still in that and do they get sick-pay? I'd look at reducing that as well if we can.
   

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2013, 02:51:20 pm »
It's all well and good saving all these wages, but what about building a squad?  Teams like United and Chelsea etc, have a squad of top players.  If one gets injured, they can bring another top player in.   We seem to be going for a lower priced top player and if he gets injured, we've got someone on lower wages or youth team player to bring in.

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2013, 02:51:50 pm »
Enough cost-cutting has been done to the wages as it is, most of it fairly successfully to be fair.

But we shouldn't be looking to loan out players like Martin Skrtel for the same reason, that would just be absurd given our current situation with centre-backs.

It makes perfect sense if the purpose of getting him loaned out and off the wage bill is so that someone who will be utilised much more can come in and replace him. Ergo - Martin off the wage bill. Papa on the wage bill.

Time will tell if that is the case.

People losing their shit need to hold off until the window shuts.


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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2013, 02:52:06 pm »
Have the owners thought of Workfare that will save loads of money on the wages.
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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2013, 02:52:18 pm »
Basically club want value for money and it messes thigs up when Downing gets roughly double the money that Coutinho gets.
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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2013, 02:53:08 pm »
Martin Kelly was on £52 a week SSP plus income support and housing benefit for the whole of last season. Fucking ruthless these bastards you know.
Him and the others skid-marks should be on YTS, after that then we can start paying them with proper money and green-shield stamps.


Why we pay anyone anything, is beyond me - they should be paying us! to come and play for Liverpool Football Club.
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Offline Il Capitano

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2013, 02:53:27 pm »
Trimming the fat off the meat is all well and good, just be sure you don't end up biting off more than you can chew.

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2013, 02:55:07 pm »
It's all well and good saving all these wages, but what about building a squad?  Teams like United and Chelsea etc, have a squad of top players.  If one gets injured, they can bring another top player in.   We seem to be going for a lower priced top player and if he gets injured, we've got someone on lower wages or youth team player to bring in.

You can't compare us to United and Chelsea though.

One is funded via a sugar daddy and is in the CL, the other has a ridiculous turnover.

We need to build up to that level not roll the dice spending money we don't have.

Offline tommy LFC

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2013, 02:56:55 pm »
This should be viewed as a positive Step One.

Step two is reinvesting that money is quality, first team players.

It's probably a good idea to reserve judgement until we see if step two happens. Easier said than done though.
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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2013, 02:57:43 pm »
I find it hard to justify bloated squad numbers on excessive wages of course, but there has to be a point where the management of the team is led by the sporting people rather than the calculator people. I have not seen the trophy for the team who saved the most, but I have seen trophies held aloft by teams that took some financial risks.
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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2013, 02:57:48 pm »
[img width= height= alt=" width="800" height="530" class="bbc_img resized]http://s22.postimg.org/re0r1c441/kennet_version_2013.png[/img]
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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2013, 02:58:43 pm »
Him and the others skid-marks should be on YTS, after that then we can start paying them with proper money and green-shield stamps.


Why we pay anyone anything, is beyond me - they should be paying us! to come and play for Liverpool Football Club.

They actually looked in to paying them with Green Shield Stamps but a study said it was "unfeasible" because Binns had closed down 30 years ago and Argos didn't accept them any more.

Little known fact though is that the club buy all their tea, coffee, biscuits and boiled ham from the Co-Op, and share the divi between the players for their Christmas box. It would have been more but the milk is cheaper in Iceland and they buy day old stalies from Hallets to make the buttys. True story.
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Offline tommy LFC

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2013, 03:00:34 pm »
I find it hard to justify bloated squad numbers on excessive wages of course, but there has to be a point where the management of the team is led by the sporting people rather than the calculator people. I have not seen the trophy for the team who saved the most, but I have seen trophies held aloft by teams that took some financial risks.

Let us never forget Rafael Benitez and what he did for us. A fighter full of guts and passion. A gentleman full of class and dignity. A football manager full of intelligence and pure genius. A Legend.
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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2013, 03:00:48 pm »
I find it hard to justify bloated squad numbers on excessive wages of course, but there has to be a point where the management of the team is led by the sporting people rather than the calculator people. I have not seen the trophy for the team who saved the most, but I have seen trophies held aloft by teams that took some financial risks.

We've seen those clubs go down the pan too, we were there once nearly.

I'd take a club assured of being in business the following season over financial risks to be honest.

Offline gamble

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2013, 03:01:55 pm »
Ooooohhhh
We've got the best balance sheet in the world!
We've got Current Assets, Accumulated depreciation,
Goodwill and Accounts Payable!!!

Offline DyingAtheist

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2013, 03:06:35 pm »
People seem to get annoyed whenever the subject of wages or money comes up, but the fact is this is the kind of thing we have to do right now if we're going to be competitive. So off the pedastels, please.
Like OP said, this only makes sense IF a good replacement is brought in... losing Pepe made sense, we got Mig in (assumedly on drastically lower wages).
Loaning Skrtl will make sense IF we get Papa in as a replacement, again, assumedly on lower wages.

Agger, Papa, Toure, Wisdom. I'd happily take that as our 4 CB's (with Kelly able to move in if need be). That would actually be a good upgrade on last season - people just like to find something to complain about.

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2013, 03:07:54 pm »
Yes we have an over inflated wage bill. But You can't fix it as quick as we're trying to do. I see Tony Barrett is saying we;re having trouble attracting the big names. It's simply because we don't want to pay them what they want, when other teams will. It's costing us. There needs to be a balance
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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2013, 03:09:15 pm »
Ooooohhhh
We've got the best balance sheet in the world!
We've got Current Assets, Accumulated depreciation,
Goodwill and Accounts Payable!!!

 ;D

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2013, 03:09:17 pm »
Yes we have an over inflated wage bill. But You can't fix it as quick as we're trying to do. I see Tony Barrett is saying we;re having trouble attracting the big names.

It's taken us 3 years nearly to do it, that's no quick turn around.

Quote
It's simply because we don't want to pay them what they want, when other teams will. It's costing us. There needs to be a balance

Who has it cost us?

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2013, 03:10:00 pm »
Ooooohhhh
We've got the best balance sheet in the world!
We've got Current Assets, Accumulated depreciation,
Goodwill and Accounts Payable!!!

ha ha classic

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2013, 03:11:08 pm »
It's simply because we don't want to pay them what they want, when other teams will. It's costing us. There needs to be a balance

It`s not true its because we cant offer them CL. We can get those kind of players only if we have no competition to get them.

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2013, 03:11:28 pm »
All hail our glorious leaders! As we move towards their fourth year in charge, the wage bill continues to be slashed. Well, the players wage bill at least, without a breakdown of the over wage bill it's difficult to know where the rest is going.
Anyway, 500k a week saved is fantastic news, it makes us a much more attractive proposition to potential buyers.

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2013, 03:11:45 pm »
Yes we have an over inflated wage bill. But You can't fix it as quick as we're trying to do. I see Tony Barrett is saying we;re having trouble attracting the big names. It's simply because we don't want to pay them what they want, when other teams will. It's costing us. There needs to be a balance

Really? Simply? Nothing to do with CL football - not even Europa football?

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2013, 03:12:46 pm »
It makes perfect sense if the purpose of getting him loaned out and off the wage bill is so that someone who will be utilised much more can come in and replace him. Ergo - Martin off the wage bill. Papa on the wage bill.

The problem with that is in the order which it happens. Like last year - Carroll out, err................

Offline tommy LFC

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2013, 03:13:10 pm »
Yes we have an over inflated wage bill. But You can't fix it as quick as we're trying to do. I see Tony Barrett is saying we;re having trouble attracting the big names. It's simply because we don't want to pay them what they want, when other teams will. It's costing us. There needs to be a balance

I think the owners will use their discretion - they've given Suarez a nice big contract (and might give him another one) because he was performing well. I bet there will be a big raise coming Coutinho's way soon too.

But take Gylfi Sigurdson for example - wanted big money, we told him to get lost, he's now dragging Spurs' resources down.

As you say it's about finding a balance, but hopefully we will pay big money to the right players. We just have to be careful there won't be any more Joe Coles or Aquilanis.
Let us never forget Rafael Benitez and what he did for us. A fighter full of guts and passion. A gentleman full of class and dignity. A football manager full of intelligence and pure genius. A Legend.
Adios Rafa, buena suerte.

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2013, 03:14:08 pm »
Yes we have an over inflated wage bill. But You can't fix it as quick as we're trying to do. I see Tony Barrett is saying we;re having trouble attracting the big names. It's simply because we don't want to pay them what they want, when other teams will. It's costing us. There needs to be a balance
Is that true or are we struggling to sign players because we have no European football?

The last figures I say had our wage bill at £120m per year and Spurs at £90m per year - who is getting better value for their money out of the two?
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Offline tommy LFC

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2013, 03:16:54 pm »
Is that true or are we struggling to sign players because we have no European football?

The last figures I say had our wage bill at £120m per year and Spurs at £90m per year - who is getting better value for their money out of the two?

The difference there is the cost of a match winning player.
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Offline CHOPPER

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2013, 03:17:54 pm »
They actually looked in to paying them with Green Shield Stamps but a study said it was "unfeasible" because Binns had closed down 30 years ago and Argos didn't accept them any more.

Little known fact though is that the club buy all their tea, coffee, biscuits and boiled ham from the Co-Op, and share the divi between the players for their Christmas box. It would have been more but the milk is cheaper in Iceland and they buy day old stalies from Hallets to make the buttys. True story.
If we sign Fiscal Mingebag the Glaswegian Right-Wing in the hole playmaker 'tongue like a pastie' - that will surely fit the clubs new model of buy low - pay low - just say no......And that tongue can lick a full sheet of stamps in one go.

My ideas to generate funds for the club are as follows

We should have a swear box. That would generate funds and save on wages.

Wages and Wags - biggest drain on our resources. Cut wages, ditch wags, its the future!

Breathing - breathing costs money and energy. Cut back breathing and we cut back on costs

Washing the kit - all players should take their own kit home and wash it and all the big shorts should be handed back into the manager before he names the team at the following game.

Tattoo's - All players to be tattooed with advertising so it saves on the leccy on the board round the ground. Plus when they're getting jumped by the Pap's in Cheshire down at their local laundrette washing their kit, they'll be advertising. More wonga!

Grass - tax it

Flood lights - get rid of them, tape torches to everyone's head.

Wages - don't pay them, its that simple

Fans - charge them more

Team bus - change it to a bus


What do ye think RAWK accuntants?.....I'm open to any other suggestions

@ Veinticinco de Mayo The way you talk to other users on this forum is something you should be ashamed of as someone who is suppose to be representing the site.
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Offline RedPat

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2013, 03:18:29 pm »
It was reported early on after their acquisition of the club that FSG were shocked by the size of Liverpool’s wage bill, especially players on vast wages who were not key members of the squad.
Surely FSG were aware of the wage bill before their acquisition of the club,that would be a basic part of due dilligence.
Kenny Godglish

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2013, 03:19:58 pm »
But we shouldn't be looking to loan out players like Martin Skrtel for the same reason, that would just be absurd given our current situation with centre-backs.

Agree. I'd see a loan of Skrtel as an easy way out. If we want him replaced - sell. Make the decision and get it done.


It's all well and good saving all these wages, but what about building a squad?  Teams like United and Chelsea etc, have a squad of top players.  If one gets injured, they can bring another top player in.   We seem to be going for a lower priced top player and if he gets injured, we've got someone on lower wages or youth team player to bring in.



It's a good idea to get rid of players who mostly warm the bench. In particular if they earn a lot of money. That money can be put to better use. I like the concept of a smaller squad. In particular when we have so many young players coming up. They can make up the numbers. It's a way to let them take part and progress.


However, we like to praise ourselves for being so clever financially and I'm not sure it's true. For instance, we think it's sound to send Reina on loan. And as I understand it, pay some of his wages. Then we spend 9M to buy Mignolet and he's not playing for free. Is that more money spent, or less? We talk about sending Skrtel on loan, but we bring in Toure as his replacement and we appear to keep Coates. Quality improvement? Savings?

We'll see at the end of the transfer window, but what I'd like to see is us selling those we don't want to keep. They shouldn't be on loan so we can praise our ability to get the wage bill down. They should be off, so we have money to spend on players of our choice. Better players. When we get that job done, that's when we can begin to give ourselves some credit.

 

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Acaustiq

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2013, 03:20:52 pm »
When your Mum used to pick you up from school and you'd run out and be like 'Mummy I got 9/10 in the spelling test today', would she go 'phenomenal, son'.

Cos if she did she's a stupid fuck.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2013, 03:22:05 pm »
The difference there is the cost of a match winning player.
Exactly and like I said it does show how we are not getting value for money compared to one of our rivals.

"And there are red and white scarves of Liverpool, and red and white bobble hats of Liverpool, and red and white rosettes of Liverpool, and nothing else. And the sun shines now."

Offline clinical

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2013, 03:22:52 pm »
It`s not true its because we cant offer them CL. We can get those kind of players only if we have no competition to get them.

Look at spurs right now. Soldado, Paulinho. Look at Monaco.
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Offline Byrneand

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2013, 03:23:01 pm »
I think this article is a bit misleading to be honest. Are we really saving £24mn a year? Take Carragher for instance, Lets say he was on £125k a week, have we saved £6.5m? No not in my view as we've replaced him with Toure who's going to be on at least £75k a week... so at most £2.6m. Getting rid of fringe players, yep that works (e.g. spearing and/or Assaidi) but someone like Skrtel or Downing would still need to be replaced.

What I don't understand is why we're not looking to sell these players deemed surplus to requirements (for whatever reason). Whilst I appreciate there may be a loan fee, most of the players who are being loaned out will be replaced with new players who will require a capital outlay. Thus, my initial reaction is, "oh great, we've saved £10m in wages loaning out these players (vs the £25m quoted above), but we now need to go out and spend £8m on a new player". Do these loans actually just weaken us financially and we should just accept what we can get now? Do we want another Aquilani?
If you can't walk in a straight line.... you shouldn't be playing for Liverpool. End of