Author Topic: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted  (Read 160279 times)

Offline HomesickRed

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #800 on: April 11, 2021, 11:55:14 pm »
Again, it's a new part being added onto an old part. This isn't one large new stand, there will be compromises.

Hardly a shocker when it's brand new from the ground up, is it?

Why do you say there WILL be compromises?
It's a new area of the stand, designed from scratch. Is it pure science fiction  to demand an architect can design an area that includes people who use wheelchairs? It is 2021.
It is a question of philosophy, not bricks and mortar.

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #801 on: April 12, 2021, 12:00:22 am »
From what I can see there are two areas. The existing at the front of what is the lower tier now, and a new section which is at the rear of the lower tier now, so what will effectively be in the middle of the stand.

What is it exactly that’s wrong with that?

And compromises will happen because we’re keeping the existing lower tier. This is so it can stay closer to the pitch, as well as a number of other (financial and design) reasons. It’s not a demolish and build as we want, it’s a keep and add on.

Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #802 on: April 14, 2021, 07:59:28 am »
Why do you say there WILL be compromises?
It's a new area of the stand, designed from scratch. Is it pure science fiction  to demand an architect can design an area that includes people who use wheelchairs? It is 2021.
It is a question of philosophy, not bricks and mortar.

I am saying this from a position of ignorance and a genuine desire to be educated.

But what is the correct philosophy in this circumstance and how do you apply it architectually? Is the issue that there should not be a seperate wheelchair area, but that they should be able to use the whole front row in an unsegregated fashion?

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #803 on: April 21, 2021, 05:50:26 pm »
Will we see this glorious erection full of legacy fans rise now after all the shenanigans...?

Joking aside, if they went and built it and let it be solely general use for local kids at a tenner a pop as an apology, I'd go some way to possibly thinking about not detesting them.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 05:57:24 pm by meady1981 »

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #804 on: April 21, 2021, 10:43:23 pm »
I demand a 70,000 capacity now, as way of apology.  :)

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #805 on: April 21, 2021, 10:57:09 pm »
I demand a 70,000 capacity now, as way of apology.  :)

With cheese?
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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #806 on: April 22, 2021, 12:06:37 am »

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #807 on: May 11, 2021, 10:08:05 pm »
Any updates on the progress of the application?

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #808 on: May 12, 2021, 10:43:05 pm »
No news surely means this is delayed for a second time?  Work would begin over the summer if it were to begun this season surely?
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Offline AnthonyStabile

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #809 on: May 13, 2021, 12:18:22 am »
From what I read the plan was to commence work before the end of this yr for it to be ready for start of 23/24 (22 mths I think they estimated) , planning permission was submitted in Dec but still no decision which seems a long time.

Offline HomesickRed

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #810 on: May 26, 2021, 05:20:16 pm »
I am saying this from a position of ignorance and a genuine desire to be educated.

But what is the correct philosophy in this circumstance and how do you apply it architectually? Is the issue that there should not be a seperate wheelchair area, but that they should be able to use the whole front row in an unsegregated fashion?

I have not had much time to post recently, so apologies for the time taken to get back to you on this.
The "philosophy", so to speak, is whether wheelchair users are to be "included" so as to be allowed to participate in the full match day experience, or merely "accommodated" in that they have a space from which to view a game of football? The distinction appears subtle, but the implications are important.
As little as 30 years ago, the recently renamed "King Kenny Dalglish" stand was built with virtually zero thought for disabled people in general and wheelchair users in particular.
I'm not sure whether it had any wheelchair bays whatsoever.
Belatedly, the club brought the stand up to a reasonable standard by retrofitting wheelchair spaces. However, many of these wheelchair spaces are isolated and difficult to get to due to problems with lifts etc. Access to food and drinks immediately before the game and at half time, is not possible. It is also not possible to freely circulate with family or friends at these times, unlike able-bodied supporters who are free to do so. Wheelchair users have been "accommodated" but they haven't really been "included".

Some leeway, perhaps, has to be given to the club as they were trying to shoehorn disabled spaces into the pre-existing stand.

The new Main Stand on the other hand, has been virtually rebuilt from the first level up. As far as I am aware the sixth floor design allows wheelchair users to both watch the match and to freely circulate with other supporters, family and friends at all times. It is a great example of inclusive design.
On the fifth floor however, the architect has built disabled bays into the wings of the stand on the Kop end and Anfield road end.
These bays offer no direct access to food or drinks, and do not allow any mixing with family and friends. Being stuck on the middle floors, lift access is extremely poor and is the subject of constant complaints.
Those bays should never have been built in that fashion. They are by no means "inclusive".

The proposed plans for the Anfield Road stand contain a new section at the back of the stand exclusively for wheelchair users. It has its own entrance, a food kiosk and drinks kiosk. It also has its own lift. It is almost its own small, 26 seater private members club. So what's not to like? There are 26 extra wheelchair spaces. The facilities are good. The view is probably good. On the face of it, the offering is possibly better than anything the club has offered to wheelchair users in the past.

Except in one vital department...... inclusivity.

That's where the "philosophy" comes in. In a society that strives for Equality for all, would it be acceptable to corral any other social minority into such a segregated section? Absolutely not, so neither should it be acceptable to shoe-horn in wheelchair users into such a pen.

Yes, the proposed plans are an improvement on what's gone before, but they are not what wheelchair users should want or demand in terms of equality and inclusivity. In 20 years time people will look back on that section and wonder how on earth it was allowed to be built.


« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 12:39:46 am by HomesickRed »

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #811 on: May 26, 2021, 05:22:07 pm »
That’s a really thought provoking  post
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Offline HomesickRed

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #812 on: May 26, 2021, 05:23:43 pm »
Any updates on the progress of the application?
No news surely means this is delayed for a second time?  Work would begin over the summer if it were to begun this season surely?

I might be mistaken but have the plans disappeared from the Council planning portal? Possible revision? Fingers crossed....

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #813 on: May 26, 2021, 07:23:59 pm »
to be honest the Kenny Stand is shocking for able bodied people too. Have been a ST in there since the upper opened and honestly it really is poor.

Offline meady1981

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #814 on: May 26, 2021, 09:47:05 pm »
Homesick, thanks for posting that. I’ve never fully thought about it from that perspective. Do you have any experience or knowledge of stadia/stands that strike that balance inclusivity-wise?

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #815 on: May 26, 2021, 10:31:40 pm »
to be honest the Kenny Stand is shocking for able bodied people too. Have been a ST in there since the upper opened and honestly it really is poor.

Remember the first time I sat in the back row, I was knackered by the time I got to my seat. Mate had corporate seats in the upper, that at least had a lift to get to the lounge.

Offline HomesickRed

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #816 on: May 27, 2021, 12:27:28 am »
to be honest the Kenny Stand is shocking for able bodied people too. Have been a ST in there since the upper opened and honestly it really is poor.

True.
My bro in law has been cooped up in there for 30 years almost.
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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #817 on: May 27, 2021, 09:44:08 am »
stands and stadiums that opened in that era would be fairly dated at this point

those seats were uncomfortable
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #818 on: May 27, 2021, 10:07:08 am »
stands and stadiums that opened in that era would be fairly dated at this point

those seats were uncomfortable

Had use of a seasie in the lower, til we moved to the Kop in 06, so cramped in those seats.

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #819 on: May 27, 2021, 10:33:24 am »
Had use of a seasie in the lower, til we moved to the Kop in 06, so cramped in those seats.

well i have only been in Anfield for a match about a dozen times but i would agree. knees pressed up against seat in front
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Offline calvin

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #820 on: June 4, 2021, 08:47:29 am »
Looks like the decision on the Anfield Road will be made in a few days.






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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #821 on: June 4, 2021, 04:59:36 pm »
Good news that we should have some movement soon. If the approval is granted when do you think work will start, maybe end of the summer?

Offline calvin

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #822 on: June 4, 2021, 06:05:15 pm »
Good news that we should have some movement soon. If the approval is granted when do you think work will start, maybe end of the summer?

I think I remember reading that the build will be 23 months, so probably September at the latest, if all goes to plan. That would have it ready for the start of the 23/24 season.

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #823 on: June 4, 2021, 06:17:00 pm »
Looks like the decision on the Anfield Road will be made in a few days.






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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #824 on: June 4, 2021, 06:21:52 pm »
I am saying this from a position of ignorance and a genuine desire to be educated.

But what is the correct philosophy in this circumstance and how do you apply it architectually? Is the issue that there should not be a seperate wheelchair area, but that they should be able to use the whole front row in an unsegregated fashion?

I have not had much time to post recently, so apologies for the time taken to get back to you on this.
The "philosophy", so to speak, is whether wheelchair users are to be "included" so as to be allowed to participate in the full match day experience, or merely "accommodated" in that they have a space from which to view a game of football? The distinction appears subtle, but the implications are important.

As little as 30 years ago, the recently renamed "King Kenny Dalglish" stand was built with virtually zero thought for disabled people in general and wheelchair users in particular.

I'm not sure whether it had any wheelchair bays whatsoever.

Belatedly, the club brought the stand up to a reasonable standard by retrofitting wheelchair spaces. However, many of these wheelchair spaces are isolated and difficult to get to due to problems with lifts etc. Access to food and drinks immediately before the game and at half time, is not possible. It is also not possible to freely circulate with family or friends at these times, unlike able-bodied supporters who are free to do so. Wheelchair users have been "accommodated" but they haven't really been "included".

Some leeway, perhaps, has to be given to the club as they were trying to shoehorn disabled spaces into the pre-existing stand.

The new Main Stand on the other hand, has been virtually rebuilt from the first level up. As far as I am aware the sixth floor design allows wheelchair users to both watch the match and to freely circulate with other supporters, family and friends at all times. It is a great example of inclusive design.

On the fifth floor however, the architect has built disabled bays into the wings of the stand on the Kop end and Anfield road end.
These bays offer no direct access to food or drinks, and do not allow any mixing with family and friends. Being stuck on the middle floors, lift access is extremely poor and is the subject of constant complaints.

Those bays should never have been built in that fashion. They are by no means "inclusive".

The proposed plans for the Anfield Road stand contain a new section at the back of the stand exclusively for wheelchair users. It has its own entrance, a food kiosk and drinks kiosk. It also has its own lift. It is almost its own small, 26 seater private members club. So what's not to like? There are 26 extra wheelchair spaces. The facilities are good. The view is probably good. On the face of it, the offering is possibly better than anything the club has offered to wheelchair users in the past.

Except in one vital department...... inclusivity.

That's where the "philosophy" comes in. In a society that strives for Equality for all, would it be acceptable to corral any other social minority into such a segregated section? Absolutely not, so neither should it be acceptable to shoe-horn in wheelchair users into such a pen.

Yes, the proposed plans are an improvement on what's gone before, but they are not what wheelchair users should want or demand in terms of equality and inclusivity. In 20 years time people will look back on that section and wonder how on earth it was allowed to be built.

To add to the above from an architect/designer point of view. The principle is to ensure that everyone has the same experience as far as possible. Generally, wheelchair users should not be forced to use separate entrances and should not be segregated.

That creates obvious problems in a football stadium where access to the seating is typically up stairs from the concourses to  the beautifully named 'vomitories' and then via stairways up and down to the seats.

Looking at the original planning application drawings the old lower concourse feeds the old lower stand but is extended under the new extension. Wheelchair users at the front of the lower tier share the GA concourse and have accessible WC facilities at that level.

The wheelchair spaces in the new part of the stand are at level 1 which is where the new hospitality suite is located. This suite replaces the existing off-site catering and hospitality for the seats at the bottom of the lower tier. Hospitality in the existing Upper Anny is in the same place more or less. Access to the wheelchair seats is at the same level, while access to the hospitality seating is via staircases up to the vomitories.

The new GA concourse serves the upper part of the new tier with staircases up to the centre of the upper seating. There's no level access from the concourse to the seating area.

The issue is that the GA wheelchair seats in the new extension have their own small dedicated concourse, separate from the main concourse. As pre-match and half-time is an integral part of the match it's not in accordance with guidance to allow everyone to have the same experience.

I agree it's not ideal but does seem to be a consequence of building on the existing lower stand (the Main Stand redevelopment had a new intermediate tier that allowed more flexibility in the design of the wheelchair seating). It would be difficult to accommodate 32 +32 wheelchair and companion spaces in the upper seating with level access from the level 2 concourse. One option would be to allow use of Lift 04 for any wheelchair user who wants to use the level 02 GA concourse.

Architects and designers take these issues seriously and I'm sure they will have taken on board any comments if possible.

« Last Edit: June 4, 2021, 06:26:21 pm by Alan_X »
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Offline Billy Elliot

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #825 on: June 5, 2021, 10:05:35 am »
Surely this issue would be classified as 'fan facing'?

Wouldn't this need to go to the Supporters Board after DSA/SOS consultation?

Maybe not as it's a strategic capital project, but I'd think FSG would now consult DSA via SOS if they're committed to making this work?
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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #826 on: June 5, 2021, 10:16:47 am »
I mean there have been extensive consultations regarding this so would seem like something that would only slow (possibly) time sensitive project down.

Changing things now from the result of yet more consultations could possibly see further planning apps needed.

Offline Billy Elliot

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #827 on: June 5, 2021, 10:29:50 am »
I mean there have been extensive consultations regarding this so would seem like something that would only slow (possibly) time sensitive project down.

Changing things now from the result of yet more consultations could possibly see further planning apps needed.

Yeah, I think I agree. But Homesick makes some good points (although like Indominatble, I'm a bit ignorant - but they sound like very good points).

Al makes good points about the challenges - although I know next to fuck all about his area of expertise.

It makes me wonder if the 'consultations' were real consultations to the level required in the new articles of association - and I admit I'm no expert here either.

I've been impatient previously with 'just getting it built'. But some of the points made are making me think - if we're building it - lets make sure it's the very best possible stand for all match goers.

If that makes sense, I often don't.
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Offline N11RED

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #828 on: June 6, 2021, 09:29:22 pm »
The Officer’s Committee Report will be published on either Monday afternoon or early Tuesday so we’ll know the Case Officer’s recommendation through that.

Committee report published recommending approval subject to conditions

http://northgate.liverpool.gov.uk/DocumentExplorer/Application/folderview.aspx?type=MVMPRD_DC_PLANAPP&key=1200084

Offline calvin

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #829 on: June 7, 2021, 08:23:04 am »
Looks like approval has been given. One change was made to the application. 12 concerts a year was initially applied for. This changed to 6 concerts up to a maximum of 5 years. This seems to have been approved too.

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #830 on: June 7, 2021, 09:51:56 am »
Ah will be ready for the last season of Kloppo too.

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #831 on: June 7, 2021, 10:08:35 am »
Committee report published recommending approval subject to conditions

http://northgate.liverpool.gov.uk/DocumentExplorer/Application/folderview.aspx?type=MVMPRD_DC_PLANAPP&key=1200084

Thanlks for the link. This is the specific part in relation to inclusive design. It includes a request for the club to cvonsider the points raised above:

Inclusive Design Specialist

In relation to the public realm, is satisfied that the club has considered the needs of all potential users of the public and has created a design which aims to meet the specific needs of a variety of users groups as best as possible.

In relation to the internal design of the stand, a number of recommendations were made in interest of providing the best possible inclusive access for all. These included the following:

•   Provision of gender neutral toilets on each level of the stand, in line with best practice. Recommended to liaise with LGBTQ supporter groups and/or their local/regional/national representative organisations, as well as organisations representing other potential user groups including Dementia Action Alliance, Alzheimer’s Society, Carers groups. 

•   Provision of a Changing Places facility.

•   Provision of accessible baby changing provision on each level of the stand.

•   Provision of ‘family friendly’ toilets on each level of the stand which are suitable for families with children of a range of ages and different genders (particularly as the Anfield Road stand is the only stand that sells child tickets). 

•   Details for Fan Zone are needed, showing the location of toilets (including accessible toilets), food and drink outlets, and any other facilities within this space.

•   Food and drink outlets to have counter heights / sections of counter heights suitable for wheelchair users. All to be equipped with suitable hearing enhancement system e.g. induction loop.

•   Provision of accessible staff changing facility.

•   Provision of unisex access to accessible WCs (i.e. not through gendered toilet entrance doors).

•   Provision of a lift to access the ‘back of house’ areas on the mezzanine to enable disabled people to access this area of employment.

•   Provision of a sensory room within the stand.

•   Consider provision of a faith space.

•   Passenger lifts to designed to be evacuation lift standard, as recommended in the Accessible Stadia guidelines.

Considered that the wheelchair user area at mezzanine level (to serve the 32 wheelchair spaces and 32 companion seats on this level) does not promote inclusivity as it effectively segregates disabled people and other people.  It makes it difficult for disabled supporters to mix and share the matchday experience with their non-disabled friends and family.  It also unnecessarily separates families, which in a stand with a high number of family/child tickets, is not ideal.  It is also accepted that some disabled people may prefer the benefits that a segregated area offers (e.g. fewer people, less congested etc). The preference would be for disabled people and other people to be able to mix and socialise with each other and that disabled people are not restricted to one segregated areas. Requested that the club gives this matter further consideration and provides a more inclusive approach to wheelchair accessible seating.   

Satisfied with the level of overall provision and the proposed improvements to the wheelchair accessible seating i.e. increased % of elevated positions. SGSA’s Guidance, all stadia should provide an equitable number of amenity and easy access seats for spectators who may require more space. It is noted that the amenity/easy access seating provision in the stadium will be maintained but not increased.  It is recommended that some amenity/easy access seats are provided in the new Anfield Road Stand (SGSA guidance recommends 1 in every 100 seats).

In relation to the proposal to relocate the home supporters coach parking to the St. Domingo Car Park, requested an Accessibility Audit of the pedestrian route to the stadium to identify any physical barriers that may prevent disabled people and other people from accessing the stadium and whether any remedial works may be required.  Barriers may include lack of dropped kerbs, unsuitable dropped kerbs, uneven surfaces, permanent/temporary obstructions. 

Commended the Club’s willingness to engage with local disabled people and their representative organisations, which included meetings with RNIB and Bradbury Fields (who represent visually impaired people) and also with the Spinal Injuries Association who represent wheelchair users and people with mobility impairments. The issues raised Points by members of the Corporate Access Forum (meeting held 1st February 2021) were understood by the Club’s representatives and agreed to investigate design and management solutions.
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Offline disgraced cake

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #832 on: June 7, 2021, 11:51:59 am »
Happy days if that can be completed by the beginning of the 2023/24 season, especially with minimal reduction to attendance. Looking forward to seeing that completed.
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Offline HomesickRed

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #833 on: June 7, 2021, 12:48:21 pm »
To add to the above from an architect/designer point of view. The principle is to ensure that everyone has the same experience as far as possible. Generally, wheelchair users should not be forced to use separate entrances and should not be segregated.

That creates obvious problems in a football stadium where access to the seating is typically up stairs from the concourses to  the beautifully named 'vomitories' and then via stairways up and down to the seats.

Looking at the original planning application drawings the old lower concourse feeds the old lower stand but is extended under the new extension. Wheelchair users at the front of the lower tier share the GA concourse and have accessible WC facilities at that level.

The wheelchair spaces in the new part of the stand are at level 1 which is where the new hospitality suite is located. This suite replaces the existing off-site catering and hospitality for the seats at the bottom of the lower tier. Hospitality in the existing Upper Anny is in the same place more or less. Access to the wheelchair seats is at the same level, while access to the hospitality seating is via staircases up to the vomitories.

The new GA concourse serves the upper part of the new tier with staircases up to the centre of the upper seating. There's no level access from the concourse to the seating area.

The issue is that the GA wheelchair seats in the new extension have their own small dedicated concourse, separate from the main concourse. As pre-match and half-time is an integral part of the match it's not in accordance with guidance to allow everyone to have the same experience.

I agree it's not ideal but does seem to be a consequence of building on the existing lower stand (the Main Stand redevelopment had a new intermediate tier that allowed more flexibility in the design of the wheelchair seating). It would be difficult to accommodate 32 +32 wheelchair and companion spaces in the upper seating with level access from the level 2 concourse. One option would be to allow use of Lift 04 for any wheelchair user who wants to use the level 02 GA concourse.

Architects and designers take these issues seriously and I'm sure they will have taken on board any comments if possible.



Thanks for your detailed response from an architect's point of view.

Regarding the bit in bold --- in other words, although they could have adapted the existing structure in any number of ways, the new design succeeds in using existing infrastructure so as to result in an unacceptable, segregated section for these wheelchair users. 

I wish I could agree that architects and designers take these issues seriously enough.

Offline HomesickRed

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #834 on: June 7, 2021, 01:23:17 pm »
Thanlks for the link. This is the specific part in relation to inclusive design. It includes a request for the club to cvonsider the points raised above:

Inclusive Design Specialist

In relation to the public realm, is satisfied that the club has considered the needs of all potential users of the public and has created a design which aims to meet the specific needs of a variety of users groups as best as possible.

In relation to the internal design of the stand, a number of recommendations were made in interest of providing the best possible inclusive access for all. These included the following:

•   Provision of gender neutral toilets on each level of the stand, in line with best practice. Recommended to liaise with LGBTQ supporter groups and/or their local/regional/national representative organisations, as well as organisations representing other potential user groups including Dementia Action Alliance, Alzheimer’s Society, Carers groups. 

•   Provision of a Changing Places facility.

•   Provision of accessible baby changing provision on each level of the stand.

•   Provision of ‘family friendly’ toilets on each level of the stand which are suitable for families with children of a range of ages and different genders (particularly as the Anfield Road stand is the only stand that sells child tickets). 

•   Details for Fan Zone are needed, showing the location of toilets (including accessible toilets), food and drink outlets, and any other facilities within this space.

•   Food and drink outlets to have counter heights / sections of counter heights suitable for wheelchair users. All to be equipped with suitable hearing enhancement system e.g. induction loop.

•   Provision of accessible staff changing facility.

•   Provision of unisex access to accessible WCs (i.e. not through gendered toilet entrance doors).

•   Provision of a lift to access the ‘back of house’ areas on the mezzanine to enable disabled people to access this area of employment.

•   Provision of a sensory room within the stand.

•   Consider provision of a faith space.

•   Passenger lifts to designed to be evacuation lift standard, as recommended in the Accessible Stadia guidelines.

Considered that the wheelchair user area at mezzanine level (to serve the 32 wheelchair spaces and 32 companion seats on this level) does not promote inclusivity as it effectively segregates disabled people and other people.  It makes it difficult for disabled supporters to mix and share the matchday experience with their non-disabled friends and family.  It also unnecessarily separates families, which in a stand with a high number of family/child tickets, is not ideal.  It is also accepted that some disabled people may prefer the benefits that a segregated area offers (e.g. fewer people, less congested etc). The preference would be for disabled people and other people to be able to mix and socialise with each other and that disabled people are not restricted to one segregated areas. Requested that the club gives this matter further consideration and provides a more inclusive approach to wheelchair accessible seating.   

Satisfied with the level of overall provision and the proposed improvements to the wheelchair accessible seating i.e. increased % of elevated positions. SGSA’s Guidance, all stadia should provide an equitable number of amenity and easy access seats for spectators who may require more space. It is noted that the amenity/easy access seating provision in the stadium will be maintained but not increased.  It is recommended that some amenity/easy access seats are provided in the new Anfield Road Stand (SGSA guidance recommends 1 in every 100 seats).

In relation to the proposal to relocate the home supporters coach parking to the St. Domingo Car Park, requested an Accessibility Audit of the pedestrian route to the stadium to identify any physical barriers that may prevent disabled people and other people from accessing the stadium and whether any remedial works may be required.  Barriers may include lack of dropped kerbs, unsuitable dropped kerbs, uneven surfaces, permanent/temporary obstructions. 

Commended the Club’s willingness to engage with local disabled people and their representative organisations, which included meetings with RNIB and Bradbury Fields (who represent visually impaired people) and also with the Spinal Injuries Association who represent wheelchair users and people with mobility impairments. The issues raised Points by members of the Corporate Access Forum (meeting held 1st February 2021) were understood by the Club’s representatives and agreed to investigate design and management solutions.


Thanks again for this Alan. Great detective work.
I mentioned above, some would say quite harshly, that sometimes architects and designers do not take these things seriously enough. However, take another look at that list of recommendations. It is a long list of some quite obvious omissions that LFC have managed to somehow "overlook". It should not need to be pointed out at two minutes to midnight, just before the plans are to be approved.
My points regarding the segregation of wheelchair users are entirely valid and justified. The guidelines date back to at least 2012, as published by UEFA in its Accessible Stadium Guidelines. It is not rocket science, or even new.
I would go further and say that the line relating to some wheelchair users actually preparing segregated facilities should not be in there. They probably only prefer them because facilities have very often fallen well below the standard required. If such facilities are better than what was there previously, of course people will embrace them, but that doesn't mean they are of the quality to which they are entitled by law.

That these plans are going before the committee with such a long list of recommendations, in itself suggests that an accessible design specialist was not employed from the very beginning, as should be the case in any project of this scale. Accessible and inclusive did should be at the forefront of these plans right from the start.

Where was the club's own Diversity and Inclusion manager when all this was going on? Asleep?

You might be interested to know that these plans were presented to the city council Corporate Access Forum just three months ago, and after they were submitted to the planning department. The plans were challenged on all of the above points. It is a matter of public record!
LFC have driven a coach and horses through the guidelines and adopted the all too prevalent industry norm of bringing sub-standard plans to planning in the hope nobody notices and then arguing the toss about what is 'reasonable adjustment'.

LFC will probably congratulate themselves on a job well done on getting these plans approved. We will then have to wait to see how many of the recommendations are quietly ignored........ And disabled people will continue to be marginalised and discriminated against.
« Last Edit: June 7, 2021, 01:27:53 pm by HomesickRed »

Offline N11RED

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #835 on: June 7, 2021, 02:32:47 pm »
Looks like approval has been given. One change was made to the application. 12 concerts a year was initially applied for. This changed to 6 concerts up to a maximum of 5 years. This seems to have been approved too.

Not quite approved. Officers have recommended approval, now up to planning committee members who will meet on the 15th to decide the application. 

Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #836 on: June 7, 2021, 03:56:25 pm »
Some great posts in here HomesickRed and Alan_X. Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #837 on: June 7, 2021, 07:02:40 pm »
Very interesting post about disabled access. Club needs to do all it can to get this right.

Sorry if answered already but would 61k make us eligible for hosting things like FA Cup semis and European finals or is it still too small?

Offline Alf

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #838 on: June 7, 2021, 08:00:41 pm »
Very interesting post about disabled access. Club needs to do all it can to get this right.

Sorry if answered already but would 61k make us eligible for hosting things like FA Cup semis and European finals or is it still too small?

Sure,I’ve read previously things such as proximity to an airport and space around in the pitch are also factors in that. Can’t see why we couldn’t host a Europa League Final.

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Re: Anfield Road Extension - Planning Permission Submitted
« Reply #839 on: June 7, 2021, 08:08:52 pm »
Sure,I’ve read previously things such as proximity to an airport and space around in the pitch are also factors in that. Can’t see why we couldn’t host a Europa League Final.
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