Author Topic: Today's shooting - The Sandy Hook Memorial Thread - Thoughts and Prayers  (Read 531109 times)

Offline Redallover11

  • Just behind Red Al Lover Number Ten in the Red Al Lover Queue
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,470
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #360 on: June 13, 2016, 01:59:09 am »
Fifty dead. Fifty people murdered in cold blood because of who they love. Madness. Absolute madness. What a horrible fucking day.

 Also, Donald Drumpf can get to absolute fuck, the shameless cretin. It's beyond belief what that gobshite of a man comes out with, it really is. If this was an Islamic extremist then it needs to be talked about (and will be talked about) but "thanks for the congrats"? Fucking scumbag.

 At the end of the day, you can be an Islamic extremist, a far right nationalist or a sad loser with serious mental problems. You're always going to hate society but having free access to guns instantly makes your hatred far, far more dangerous for everyone who has to share a society with you. That's the first thing that needs tackling but sadly I think we all know it isn't going to happen.
Thank you. We'll said.

Wish politicians cared,  really cared. But they don't. Listening to Marco Rubio as soon as he got to the crime scene went straight for it. The immediate we are Americans gay straight etc standing against radical islamist terrorists. It's pathetic.
Politicians crying crocodile tears, while being padded by the very industry that creates such horror.

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,425
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #361 on: June 13, 2016, 02:50:41 am »
There are 24 million people in Australia. The National firearms agreement in 1997 saw 1 million guns turned in/bought back.

There are 320 million people in the United States. There is estimated to be over 357 million guns in the country.

I agree that we have to start somewhere, but it does the conversation little good when countries like Canada and Australia get thrown into it. "It worked for them," doesn't take into account that they're not the US; that they don't measure in either population or in the history of the gun.

I also agree with the need to have tighter controls on assault rifles. The NRA claims the A-R 17 is for hunting and home defense. Who the fuck hunts with an A-R 17? And what are you hunting? Besides humans?
that stat about the population to the amount of guns is insane

But back on point, don't you think that since a country like Australia benefited by getting rid of 1mil guns, America would see a ridiculously high increase in the sorts of numbers I posted above given the amount of guns they have? I don't think they could go about it the same way, but taking guns away helped Aus and seeing how the U.S have more guns than people (if those numbers are right) then they can only stand to benefit as well no?

I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline Redallover11

  • Just behind Red Al Lover Number Ten in the Red Al Lover Queue
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,470
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #362 on: June 13, 2016, 02:52:13 am »
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Offline coolbyrne

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,493
  • Ground Control
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #363 on: June 13, 2016, 03:10:53 am »
that stat about the population to the amount of guns is insane

But back on point, don't you think that since a country like Australia benefited by getting rid of 1mil guns, America would see a ridiculously high increase in the sorts of numbers I posted above given the amount of guns they have? I don't think they could go about it the same way, but taking guns away helped Aus and seeing how the U.S have more guns than people (if those numbers are right) then they can only stand to benefit as well no?



Please don't misunderstand- I absolutely agree with you. But because of the size of the population and the number of weapons we're talking about, taking away the guns is never going to happen. That's not to say they shouldn't try something, but there is so much going on with this topic (the amount of weapons, the 2nd Amendment, the gun culture, the divisiveness of the gov't parties, etc.) that I don't know what that 'something' is, truth be told.

Edited to add a source for the more guns than people stat: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/05/guns-in-the-united-states-one-for-every-man-woman-and-child-and-then-some/
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 03:12:57 am by coolbyrne »
Oh, these sour times.

No one admires resilience when you were just plain wrong all along - that's just twattishness.

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

  • FUCK THE POLICE - NWA
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 40,806
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #364 on: June 13, 2016, 03:19:16 am »
That Owen Jones clip on sky news paper review, how he lasted so long i don't know

Offline jooneyisdagod

  • Doesn't like having pussy round the house
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,743
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #365 on: June 13, 2016, 03:48:41 am »
You wouldn't be carrying around a weapon like that unless you plan to use it surely. Lots of muslims and Americans have problems with homosexuality, so wouldn't surprise me

I was being a bit cheeky with the post.

I was even going to say that this was likely an ISIS motivated attack given they've decided to make the month of Ramadan a blood fest. I left it out instead.

I guess it's starting to come out now and neither the left nor the right are able to react in any logically consistent manner.

The left is focussing purely on the guns and ignoring the ideology of the person that fired it. The right is focusing only on the identity of the guy and ignoring the fact that the easy access to guns makes it possible for any idiot to buy a gun and shoot people dead. And ironically, the far religious right has already come out in support of this nutter claiming homosexuality is a sin or something like that. The reaction of people to this event and others before it tells me that there really is no will to make a change. Instead, there is clutching at straws and rampant whataboutery and deflection to hold on to their pet ideologies. That to me is nearly as depressing as someone fucking religious dipshit shooting people dead because of who they loved.
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline Armless Joe Gambino

  • Will stone fred at the drop of a hat
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,514
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #366 on: June 13, 2016, 05:41:03 am »
I cannot shake the feeling there is more to this horrible event as what we heard till now.
In my day everbody drank and smoked and nobody took drugs. . . . . .

Offline moondog

  • dot com! Wake him up before he go-gos.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,434
  • Bring the noise
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #367 on: June 13, 2016, 06:17:40 am »
Its not just any guns, this assault rifle is capable of firing 9 rounds per second. The easy access to some of the deadliest weapons around is astonishing. If they don't want to ban guns, at least put some control on the deadliest weapons.

Basically this needs to be first step, a handgun is so less accurate than one of these assault rifles and if people have to be armed (why ) , then at least limit the damage they can do. America loves guns but enough is enough.

Online Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,396
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #368 on: June 13, 2016, 07:16:44 am »
I cannot shake the feeling there is more to this horrible event as what we heard till now.

Why? Unless you're into the predictable Alex Jones 'false-flag' type nonsense that's already doing the rounds it's pretty straightforward. A homophobic bastard with access to assault weapons murdered 50 people. What more would there be?

Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline SP

  • Thor ain't got shit on this dude! Alpheus. SPoogle. The Equusfluminis Of RAWK. Straight in at the deep end with a tube of Vagisil. Needs to get a half-life. Needs a damned good de-frag.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 36,044
  • .
  • Super Title: Southern Pansy
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #369 on: June 13, 2016, 08:22:40 am »
Why? Unless you're into the predictable Alex Jones 'false-flag' type nonsense that's already doing the rounds it's pretty straightforward. A homophobic bastard with access to assault weapons murdered 50 people. What more would there be?

There will be a nebulous link to ISIS. ISIS are like Everton with their trophies. They claim credit for any thing. They have a deliberate tactic of seeding the Internet with hate material, and encourage anyone to commit atrocities in their name - explicitly stating that you don't need their approval to commit your own atrocity. It is a convenient narrative that ISIS are to blame, rather than letting someone unstable access to an Assault Rifle.

Online Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,396
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #370 on: June 13, 2016, 08:37:35 am »
There will be a nebulous link to ISIS. ISIS are like Everton with their trophies. They claim credit for any thing. They have a deliberate tactic of seeding the Internet with hate material, and encourage anyone to commit atrocities in their name - explicitly stating that you don't need their approval to commit your own atrocity. It is a convenient narrative that ISIS are to blame, rather than letting someone unstable access to an Assault Rifle.

Agreed Jon, but my spidey sense starts tingling when people post about there being 'more to this...' It's often a prelude to some nonsense about it being a false flag operation to get guns banned/get the purchase of ammunition banned/get Trump elected/get Hilary elected/bring in new laws* (*deleted or add your own nonsense as appropriate). if you want to see the shite that gets written type 'Orlando false flag" into Google. It happens after all these events and some of it has traction because people want to believe that something so devastating and horrific must have something more to it than just a random nutter influenced by homophobia and IS propaganda he's picked up on the internet.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline only6times

  • a night. Founder of the Breck Road Brasses mediation service. Owner of an out of control Fat Finger.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,121
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #371 on: June 13, 2016, 09:06:59 am »
bitter,not me.a granddad,but I'm not even 40

Online Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,396
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #372 on: June 13, 2016, 09:15:27 am »
I would love for someone to explain to me why anyone needs to be able to own one of these:





Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Ziltoid

  • Grass. See you at next year's panto (oh no you won't!). Carrot-topped Phallic Snowman Extraordinaire.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,435
  • Scrubbers
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #373 on: June 13, 2016, 10:13:42 am »
This has hit me really hard, actually.Things don't get to me usually, but I've been in tears a couple of times already regarding this. It's all the way in Orlando, but it's oh-so-close to home for me. Can't wait to get home and give my girlfriend a big hug and tell her I love her. Usually with these things, it's a case of "it could have been anyone", and somehow that's easier to take than being gunned down because someone can't stand the idea of who you are. Who I am. Honestly just floored by it.

And don't get me started on people "praying for" the victims. Get to fuck with your fucking prayers. I know you mean well, but you should be banging on the doors of Congress to change your shitty fucking gun laws, not praying that something will change. I think we have sufficient evidence that prayers offer literally ZERO protection against a fucking assault rifle, so at least try a law instead. It's not like it could possibly make things worse is it? Blah blah constitution blah blah MY RIGHTS blah blah... twats.

In other news, police managed to intercept a guy on his way to the LA Pride parade on Saturday with rifles, ammo and explosives / a bucket of chemicals. It's not made the news much because obviously the focus has been on Orlando, but fucking hell... imagine if the police hadn't got to him in time?

Fucking awful.

well said

Offline damomad

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,204
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #374 on: June 13, 2016, 10:30:04 am »
This has hit me really hard, actually.Things don't get to me usually, but I've been in tears a couple of times already regarding this. It's all the way in Orlando, but it's oh-so-close to home for me. Can't wait to get home and give my girlfriend a big hug and tell her I love her. Usually with these things, it's a case of "it could have been anyone", and somehow that's easier to take than being gunned down because someone can't stand the idea of who you are. Who I am. Honestly just floored by it.

And don't get me started on people "praying for" the victims. Get to fuck with your fucking prayers. I know you mean well, but you should be banging on the doors of Congress to change your shitty fucking gun laws, not praying that something will change. I think we have sufficient evidence that prayers offer literally ZERO protection against a fucking assault rifle, so at least try a law instead. It's not like it could possibly make things worse is it? Blah blah constitution blah blah MY RIGHTS blah blah... twats.

In other news, police managed to intercept a guy on his way to the LA Pride parade on Saturday with rifles, ammo and explosives / a bucket of chemicals. It's not made the news much because obviously the focus has been on Orlando, but fucking hell... imagine if the police hadn't got to him in time?

Fucking awful.

Top post.

I just don't get it, the argument that guns are too ingrained in the culture to make a change. What will it take, how many sons and daughters, brothers and sisters? You can't change what people will believe over-night when it comes to their religion but you can take the weapons away or at least put some fucking decent restrictions on the sale of them.

Haven't been to Orlando but I'm sure there aren't many wild deer there and you wouldn't need an assault rifle to take one out!
You're still the one pool where I'd happily drown

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,489
  • The first five yards........
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #375 on: June 13, 2016, 10:33:13 am »
Gays Must Die Says Speaker At Orlando Mosque - WFTV 9 Orlando Report
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ

Three years ago in Orlando. Islam has a gay problem obviously. But to have hate preachers spreading the message in mosques that homosexuals should die is...worrying. 
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline cloggypop

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,308
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #376 on: June 13, 2016, 10:36:07 am »
I would love for someone to explain to me why anyone needs to be able to own one of these:



Offline stevo7

  • RAWK Remembers
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,939
  • Direct Action Now
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #377 on: June 13, 2016, 10:42:25 am »
I would love for someone to explain to me why anyone needs to be able to own one of these:




Didn't realise they were so cheap - https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/ar15-rifles.html

Offline eddymunster

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,926
  • JFT96
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #378 on: June 13, 2016, 10:51:42 am »
Didn't realise they were so cheap - https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/ar15-rifles.html

The fact that you want to own one of those should automatically exclude you from ever owning one.

Brexit (n) - "The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed."

Offline Weby72.

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #379 on: June 13, 2016, 10:54:47 am »
Whilst I'm glad there is heavy focus on the gun culture of the US and ease with which psychopaths can buy their mass-murder weapons, to me the elephant in the room, especially amongst those of 'the left' is the incompatibility of conservative Islam with liberal western values that have delivered progress on issues such as LGBT rights and societal acceptance.

Yes, there are [so-called] Christian cretins who rant fire & brimstone about the sin of homosexuality, especially in the backwards regions of the US, but they generally stick to vitriolic ravings rather than mass murder (these days at least).

That doesn't compare to the widescale societal hatred toward LGBT people in countries where conservative Islam is prevalent. The problem is that immigrants to 'the west' from these societal backwaters like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, etc bring with them that negative cultural baggage like homophobia, misogyny, FGM, forced/arranged marriage - and *we*, as the indigenous society, who have evolved our societal culture to largely lose the widespread homophobia & chauvinism that once blighted us, have for too long turned a blind eye.

We've had the message of 'multiculturalism' drummed into us, predominantly by those grouped under the 'metropolitan liberal elite' moniker. Now multiculturalism is fine by me and, I suspect, most people agree. But there is a problem when one of the cultures - or, to be more accurate, certain facets of a culture - are diametrically opposed to the core socially progressive principles that we've developed.

In other words, how do 'we' square the equal rights and respect ethos with the 'rights' of certain ethnic minorities to retain the insidious aspects of the culture of their ancestral home countries? The difficulty of the problem is exacerbated by the fact that these nefarious aspects of 'their' culture is enshrined in a religion. And, despite religion being nothing but a personal lifestyle choice, we have had 'the powers that be' continuously drum into us that we must respect the 'rights' of people to practice their religious beliefs.

So what happens when we have competing principles such as the rights of LGBT people or the rights of women, against conservative Islam and the backwards cultures of immigrants from certain Asian/North African countries that seek to demonise (at best) LGBT people, and to refuse to accept that women are equal and are entitled to equal treatment?

At present, there's a hypocritical mess, a combination of obfuscation and head-in-the-sand ignoring the issue. The authorities pretend the issue doesn't exist, and brush under the carpet instances where it does show it's ugly fance. I guess that goes someway to explaining why local authorities and the police tried to cover-up the gangs of Muslim men around the country targeting white British girls for systematic child abuse.

I personally think the message should be loud and clear that, for people coming to live in 'the west', liberal western values predominate over backwards cultural aberrations like misogyny & homophobia


Offline coolbyrne

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,493
  • Ground Control
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #380 on: June 13, 2016, 11:31:26 am »
I would love for someone to explain to me why anyone needs to be able to own one of these:







http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/01/02/gun_control_ar_15_rifle_the_nra_claims_the_ar_15_rifle_is_for_hunting_and.html

Quote
In a piece today on humanevents.com titled “The AR-15: The Gun Liberals Love to Hate,” NRA president David Keene blasted those critics who “neither understand the nature of the firearms they would ban, their popularity or legitimate uses.” Keene noted there are several valid, non-murderous uses for rifles like the AR-15—among them recreational target shooting, hunting, and home defense—and argued that law-abiding firearms owners shouldn’t be penalized because of homicidal loners who use semi-automatics like the AR-15 for criminal purposes.

Recreational target shooting, hunting and home defense.

 ::)

Oh, these sour times.

No one admires resilience when you were just plain wrong all along - that's just twattishness.

Offline MichaelA

  • MasterBaker, honey-trapper and 'concerned neighbour'. Beyond The Pale. Vermin on the ridiculous. Would love to leave Ashley Cole gasping for air. Dupe Snoop Extraordinaire. RAWK MARTYR #1. The proud owner of a new lower case a. Mickey Two Sheds.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 29,365
  • At the Academy
  • Super Title: MichaelA
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #381 on: June 13, 2016, 11:56:38 am »
Whilst I'm glad there is heavy focus on the gun culture of the US and ease with which psychopaths can buy their mass-murder weapons, to me the elephant in the room, especially amongst those of 'the left' is the incompatibility of conservative Islam with liberal western values that have delivered progress on issues such as LGBT rights and societal acceptance.

Yes, there are [so-called] Christian cretins who rant fire & brimstone about the sin of homosexuality, especially in the backwards regions of the US, but they generally stick to vitriolic ravings rather than mass murder (these days at least).

That doesn't compare to the widescale societal hatred toward LGBT people in countries where conservative Islam is prevalent. The problem is that immigrants to 'the west' from these societal backwaters like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, etc bring with them that negative cultural baggage like homophobia, misogyny, FGM, forced/arranged marriage - and *we*, as the indigenous society, who have evolved our societal culture to largely lose the widespread homophobia & chauvinism that once blighted us, have for too long turned a blind eye.

We've had the message of 'multiculturalism' drummed into us, predominantly by those grouped under the 'metropolitan liberal elite' moniker. Now multiculturalism is fine by me and, I suspect, most people agree. But there is a problem when one of the cultures - or, to be more accurate, certain facets of a culture - are diametrically opposed to the core socially progressive principles that we've developed.

In other words, how do 'we' square the equal rights and respect ethos with the 'rights' of certain ethnic minorities to retain the insidious aspects of the culture of their ancestral home countries? The difficulty of the problem is exacerbated by the fact that these nefarious aspects of 'their' culture is enshrined in a religion. And, despite religion being nothing but a personal lifestyle choice, we have had 'the powers that be' continuously drum into us that we must respect the 'rights' of people to practice their religious beliefs.

So what happens when we have competing principles such as the rights of LGBT people or the rights of women, against conservative Islam and the backwards cultures of immigrants from certain Asian/North African countries that seek to demonise (at best) LGBT people, and to refuse to accept that women are equal and are entitled to equal treatment?

At present, there's a hypocritical mess, a combination of obfuscation and head-in-the-sand ignoring the issue. The authorities pretend the issue doesn't exist, and brush under the carpet instances where it does show it's ugly fance. I guess that goes someway to explaining why local authorities and the police tried to cover-up the gangs of Muslim men around the country targeting white British girls for systematic child abuse.

I personally think the message should be loud and clear that, for people coming to live in 'the west', liberal western values predominate over backwards cultural aberrations like misogyny & homophobia



You keep fucking drumming. You could have written much the same thing about any number of different intolerances and prejudices over the past century or more. Your 'metropolitan liberal elite' is centuries of struggle for women's rights, children's rights, campaigns against religious and ethnic discrimination, anti-apartheid campaigners, Stonewall, LGBT rights. It'a an ongoing battle. Keep fucking drumming, drum louder. Don't leave it to your imaginary 'metropolitan liberal elite'.

Offline Weby72.

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #382 on: June 13, 2016, 12:01:10 pm »
You keep fucking drumming. You could have written much the same thing about any number of different intolerances and prejudices over the past century or more. Your 'metropolitan liberal elite' is centuries of struggle for women's rights, children's rights, campaigns against religious and ethnic discrimination, anti-apartheid campaigners, Stonewall, LGBT rights. It'a an ongoing battle. Keep fucking drumming, drum louder. Don't leave it to your imaginary 'metropolitan liberal elite'.


Yet you ignore the key question I was trying to raise: how does one reconcile two conflicting social aims; in this case is the rights of LGBT people to live a life free from threat, with the conservative Islam that is clung to by certain sections of the immigrant community, which poses a direct & hateful threat to LGBT people?


Offline cloggypop

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,308
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #383 on: June 13, 2016, 12:06:13 pm »

Yet you ignore the key question I was trying to raise: how does one reconcile two conflicting social aims; in this case is the rights of LGBT people to live a life free from threat, with the conservative Islam that is clung to by certain sections of the immigrant community, which poses a direct & hateful threat to LGBT people?
What about James Howell?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/12/los-angeles-gay-pride-parade-man-arrested-arsenal-weapons

Offline Wilmo

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,218
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #384 on: June 13, 2016, 12:10:03 pm »

Yet you ignore the key question I was trying to raise: how does one reconcile two conflicting social aims; in this case is the rights of LGBT people to live a life free from threat, with the conservative Islam that is clung to by certain sections of the immigrant community, which poses a direct & hateful threat to LGBT people?

You make sure mentally unstable knuckle-draggers with a history of violence don't have access to weapons explicitly designed for mass murder.

'History has always shown that when we stay together we can sort out problems. When we split then we start fighting. There was not one time in history where division creates success.' - Klopp

Offline MichaelA

  • MasterBaker, honey-trapper and 'concerned neighbour'. Beyond The Pale. Vermin on the ridiculous. Would love to leave Ashley Cole gasping for air. Dupe Snoop Extraordinaire. RAWK MARTYR #1. The proud owner of a new lower case a. Mickey Two Sheds.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 29,365
  • At the Academy
  • Super Title: MichaelA
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #385 on: June 13, 2016, 12:15:34 pm »

Yet you ignore the key question I was trying to raise: how does one reconcile two conflicting social aims; in this case is the rights of LGBT people to live a life free from threat, with the conservative Islam that is clung to by certain sections of the immigrant community, which poses a direct & hateful threat to LGBT people?



How do we persuade these patriarchal Victorian gents to reconcile their self serving agenda with the rights of women to vote? How do persuade white South Africans to end their apartheid rule? How do we persuade unreconstructed knuckle draggers from hating people on the basis of their ethnicity, religion or their lifestyle choices?

Education, engagement, activism. Banging the drum for basic human rights. And keep drumming. Until it's deafening. That's how it works, That's how society works. You can't remove those people who are prejudiced, ill educated or blinded by religion or politics from society, but you can drum their worldview out to the edges of society. Keep fucking drumming.

Online Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,396
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #386 on: June 13, 2016, 12:17:40 pm »


What a bunch of sad micro-dick wankers.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline planet-terror

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,249
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #387 on: June 13, 2016, 12:21:11 pm »
terrible..
rip
bollocks

Offline MichaelA

  • MasterBaker, honey-trapper and 'concerned neighbour'. Beyond The Pale. Vermin on the ridiculous. Would love to leave Ashley Cole gasping for air. Dupe Snoop Extraordinaire. RAWK MARTYR #1. The proud owner of a new lower case a. Mickey Two Sheds.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 29,365
  • At the Academy
  • Super Title: MichaelA
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #388 on: June 13, 2016, 12:21:26 pm »
Blackpool is a similar size to Orlando in terms of population, but has fewer off licences than Orland has gun shops.

Offline Yiannis

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,033
  • Reds fan from Greece
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #389 on: June 13, 2016, 12:35:06 pm »
" This year, the Nebraska Legislature introduced a bill (now indefinitely postponed), that would have required the sale of forfeited guns in police custody, except in the rare circumstance that a firearm had an obvious defect that made it unsafe to fire. First to testify in support was Katie Spohn, a paid lobbyist for the National Rifle Association.

 “The NRA supports LB769 because it eliminates the wasteful and expensive practice of destroying firearms that could be recirculated through licensed dealers to the retail market,” Spohn said. “The NRA further supports LB769 because the proceeds from these firearms auctions would go to support our local schools.”

It’s a curious model: The more crime there is in a community, the more guns the police can seize and resell, and the better the state can compensate public schoolteachers. But it’s becoming a reliable stream of municipal revenue around the country, Spohn explained. “Police departments and other public agencies routinely sell forfeited property to the law-abiding public, including firearms.”

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/nra-guns-sales-control-zimmerman-police-213895

« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 12:38:10 pm by Sly Emilio Santorini »
Messi in fact doesn't have a recognizable trait.

Offline Weby72.

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #390 on: June 13, 2016, 12:40:41 pm »
How do we persuade these patriarchal Victorian gents to reconcile their self serving agenda with the rights of women to vote? How do persuade white South Africans to end their apartheid rule? How do we persuade unreconstructed knuckle draggers from hating people on the basis of their ethnicity, religion or their lifestyle choices?

Education, engagement, activism. Banging the drum for basic human rights. And keep drumming. Until it's deafening. That's how it works, That's how society works. You can't remove those people who are prejudiced, ill educated or blinded by religion or politics from society, but you can drum their worldview out to the edges of society. Keep fucking drumming.

I absolutely agree with this.

But there is a problem when you have people hiding behind the excuse of religion/ethnicity to justify their 'knuckle-dragging hatred' of certain minorities.

I wholeheartedly agree that hating someone because of their gender/sexuality/race/age/etc is deplorable and illogical. People cannot change their gender/sexuality/race/age/etc.

But people can choose their actions in life. They can choose their religion. They can choose to reject the backward cultural mores of the country of their ancestors. So I don't concur that a person has a 'right' to project hate upon another group, simply because their sky fairy says so, or simply because in culture in the country where they/their parent/grandparent/great-grandparent was born hates that group.

There is a massive difference between hating all Muslims cos, like, they're Muslims. That's nonsensical.

But we, as a society that places huge value on the principle of equal rights & respect for traditionally discriminated-against groups, should never give tacit acceptance to aspects of a culture - such as homophobia or misogyny - that are abhorrent, just because the perpetrators of the prejudice belong to a group that those of us who've fought bigotry have previously championed (ie, people from the Sub-Continent/Asia/North Africa)

Offline tonysleft

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,497
  • A manc
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #391 on: June 13, 2016, 12:50:23 pm »
I absolutely agree with this.

But there is a problem when you have people hiding behind the excuse of religion/ethnicity to justify their 'knuckle-dragging hatred' of certain minorities.

I wholeheartedly agree that hating someone because of their gender/sexuality/race/age/etc is deplorable and illogical. People cannot change their gender/sexuality/race/age/etc.

But people can choose their actions in life. They can choose their religion. They can choose to reject the backward cultural mores of the country of their ancestors. So I don't concur that a person has a 'right' to project hate upon another group, simply because their sky fairy says so, or simply because in culture in the country where they/their parent/grandparent/great-grandparent was born hates that group.

There is a massive difference between hating all Muslims cos, like, they're Muslims. That's nonsensical.

But we, as a society that places huge value on the principle of equal rights & respect for traditionally discriminated-against groups, should never give tacit acceptance to aspects of a culture - such as homophobia or misogyny - that are abhorrent, just because the perpetrators of the prejudice belong to a group that those of us who've fought bigotry have previously championed (ie, people from the Sub-Continent/Asia/North Africa)
I agree there is a cognitive dissonance going on in the media with regard to the whole not all Muslims thing and the actual ideological conservatism and violent homophobia espoused in its Islamic scripture. But like catholicism it must be given a chance to adapt to the egalitarian society which the West is pursuing, there's really nothing else you can do. It will take time and continued effort in the face of failure but we will all get there with our beliefs intact eventually, in the meantime it would make bloody good sense to pursue at the very least a ban on military grade weapons and high capacity magazines on a nationwide basis. Having it in some states but not all is as useful as having it in none.
Great chiefs and great loves in obliterated light

Offline oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,451
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #392 on: June 13, 2016, 12:53:21 pm »

Is that true, people are given a man card to carry around in their wallet when they buy one of those guns.
If it is, that is obscene, every sad loser walking round doing what he wants. somebody pulls him up.
out comes his official am a sad loser who hasn't got the brain or brawn to defend myself but I will blow you away if am not allowed to do and say wtf I want.
I would class that as threat to my life if someone pulled that out during an argument.
Horrified if true. struggling to understand how it's not illegal.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 12:56:04 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Weby72.

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #393 on: June 13, 2016, 12:57:01 pm »
I agree there is a cognitive dissonance going on in the media with regard to the whole not all Muslims thing and the actual ideological conservatism and violent homophobia espoused in its Islamic scripture. But like catholicism it must be given a chance to adapt to the egalitarian society which the West is pursuing, there's really nothing else you can do. It will take time and continued effort in the face of failure but we will all get there with our beliefs intact eventually


Walking on eggshells regarding the worst aspects of Islam and the culture brought over by immigrants from the Sub Continet/North Africa/ME is IMO going to prolong it.

The proliferation of schools being able to teach a predominantly Islamic curriculum is a massive hurdle (thanks to Academisation of our education system, due to a succession of cuntish governments and education secretaries), but we need to use our schools to try to rid the children of Muslim parents of the poisonous narrative that bigtry toward certain sections is wrong and plain stupid.

Offline TravisBickle

  • KnowsVotersAreFickle!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,808
  • RAWK n' Roll
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #394 on: June 13, 2016, 01:03:37 pm »
Is that true, people are given a man card to carry around in their wallet when they buy one of those guns.
If it is, that is obscene, every sad loser walking round doing what he wants. somebody pulls him up.
out comes his official am a sad loser who hasn't got the brain or brawn to defend myself but I will blow you away if am not allowed to do and say wtf I want.
I would class that as threat to my life if someone pulled that out during an argument.
Horrified if true. struggling to understand how it's not illegal.

 Fucking insane, isn't it. Insane and pathetic in equal measure.

 I remember there being a gun which was named after a law which gave people the right to shoot burglars. Essentially saying "fantasise about shooting burglars? This is the gun for you!" And then people wonder why blokes blow their kids heads off when they come home late.
"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea and he conquered the bloody world! And that's what I wanted; for Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline dumbo

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #395 on: June 13, 2016, 01:31:03 pm »
Walking on eggshells regarding the worst aspects of Islam and the culture brought over by immigrants from the Sub Continet/North Africa/ME is IMO going to prolong it.

Religions in third world countries are broadly considered "intolerant", and that's unfortunately not unique to Islam. AFAIR much of Africa is fiercely intolerant of LGBT, regardless of which religion is most popular in the country.

Offline the good half

  • these days is hard to find so please be gentle with this half of mine
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,310
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #396 on: June 13, 2016, 01:42:54 pm »
Speaking to some colleagues at lunch.
Not one reacting in a way they would had this happened in any other country.
To sum up: 'I know, it's terrible''

And why would they.

Offline Chakan

  • Chaka Chaka.....is in love with Aristotle but only for votes. The proud owner of some very private piles and an inflatable harem! Winner of RAWK's Carabao Cup captian contest.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 91,079
  • Internet Terrorist lvl VI
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #397 on: June 13, 2016, 01:45:47 pm »
Speaking to some colleagues at lunch.
Not one reacting in a way they would had this happened in any other country.
To sum up: 'I know, it's terrible''

And why would they.

It's become blase'

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,489
  • The first five yards........
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #398 on: June 13, 2016, 01:49:08 pm »
Religions in third world countries are broadly considered "intolerant", and that's unfortunately not unique to Islam. AFAIR much of Africa is fiercely intolerant of LGBT, regardless of which religion is most popular in the country.

This is probably true. But the fact remains that at the moment it is Islam which is producing a level of intolerance which frequently tips over into terrorist violence. Anyone who read the Observer yesterday will have seen the terrifying amout of atrocities committed by Islamists against freethinkers, gays, liberals, secularists etc in Bangladesh this past 12 months.

Then there was the Muslim hate preacher who went to Orlando three years ago and told his mosque audience that all homosexuals should be killed. (link above).

It wasn't just a criminally easy access to weapons that produced yesterday's massacre. It was a hateful fascist creed called Islamism.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,451
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #399 on: June 13, 2016, 02:04:30 pm »
Fucking insane, isn't it. Insane and pathetic in equal measure.

 I remember there being a gun which was named after a law which gave people the right to shoot burglars. Essentially saying "fantasise about shooting burglars? This is the gun for you!" And then people wonder why blokes blow their kids heads off when they come home late.
Wonder they don't say, fed up with video games, why not try the real thing. madness.
Seem to do more studies into the affects of video games yet none of this logic applys in the real world.
It's the same thing over and over. mass killings, same old hypocrisy from the pro gun campaign, arguments repeated till it all fades away, mass killing.etc etc.
I don't care what the problems are they will be overcome if theres the will to do it. first they have to have to want change. it will come one day. sadly I don't think there is the will right now. I doubt any future president in the near future will be as aggressive as Obama on this, all he got was ridicule.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis