Author Topic: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?  (Read 36112 times)

Offline west_london_red

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #480 on: January 3, 2023, 10:25:19 pm »
1 and 3 are true, i'd disagree with 2 in the sense that Thiago works just as hard as Wijnaldum did and puts the hard yards in. Difference is the fitness levels and Thiago not having that prime Henderson and Fabinho (or younger Milner) in midfield with him.

I keep reading this about Fabinho but he only turned 29 at the end of October and if I recall correctly didn’t start a WC game, whatever the issue is, it shouldn’t be his age or fitness surely?
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Offline andy07

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #481 on: January 3, 2023, 10:31:47 pm »
Worrying that we are lots of points behind United and fractionally ahead of Brighton, Fulham and Brentford.  Something is really not right and we need to sort it asap or finish outside the top 4.  If midfield is the issue we strengthen now or face the consequences.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #482 on: January 3, 2023, 10:37:14 pm »
I keep reading this about Fabinho but he only turned 29 at the end of October and if I recall correctly didn’t start a WC game, whatever the issue is, it shouldn’t be his age or fitness surely?

Sometimes players drop a level and never get it back. He isnt helped by the absolutely huge gaps left in midfield by us thanks to this bizarre system we are playing.

Fabinho was never the most physically strong player in terms of fitness. Even early in his Liverpool career 3 games a week took their toll.

Offline Caps4444

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #483 on: January 3, 2023, 10:39:07 pm »
Worrying that we are lots of points behind United and fractionally ahead of Brighton, Fulham and Brentford.  Something is really not right and we need to sort it asap or finish outside the top 4.  If midfield is the issue we strengthen now or face the consequences.

Well we have Brighton away next….

Offline MonsLibpool

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #484 on: January 3, 2023, 10:41:58 pm »
Worrying that we are lots of points behind United and fractionally ahead of Brighton, Fulham and Brentford.  Something is really not right and we need to sort it asap or finish outside the top 4.  If midfield is the issue we strengthen now or face the consequences.
The gap is not a lot because they have tough games coming up. Unfortunately, clawing it back will be a real struggle for us.

Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #485 on: January 3, 2023, 10:47:42 pm »
Agree although we also have to deal with the fact VVD isn’t GOAT levels anymore and just a normal world class cb.

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Offline Scottymuser

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #486 on: January 3, 2023, 10:52:26 pm »
This is a point that a lot of people are missing. FSG won't spend like City do but they've spent more than enough over the past three years for us to have recruited some more midfielders. If we're just going to ignore the problem position and recruit in other areas, that's not on FSG.

We have over the past few years spent big on Ox, Keita, Fabinho and Thiago - yes these might be slightly more than 3 years ago, but it is un arguable that we did spend big on those players - at a time when we badly neglected our attack.  And we've been forced into a couple of attacking signings due to having a poor attacking line up behind the (aging) front 3, and then Jota being very injury prone and selling Mane.

If we'd gone into this season buying another midfielder instead of Nunez, say, and having to rely on a front 3 of Ox, Salah and Carvalho (or even Elliot) you'd be complaining we spent big on midfielders.

Offline mattD

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #487 on: January 3, 2023, 10:52:29 pm »
Silver lining to such appalling performances would be that its a massive kick up the arse for the management and recruitment to start seriously rebuilding the midfield.

If this isn't the reaction, then it's time to seriously worry.

Offline Aeon

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #488 on: January 3, 2023, 11:52:07 pm »
Following my two posts on this topic, look every successful team goes through a cycle and eventually experiences off-form and negative results which extend to less successful seasons. What we see on the pitch now with Liverpool is very normal. Currently it happens also to Barcelona, it happened to Man UTD during Ferguson as well.

The team needs to be refreshed. Klopp knows the way to rebuild the team if this is needed.

What we need is stability and some key additions.

Meh.

Europa League could be fun next year.

Coincidently, the only competition Klopp has not won with Liverpool.
« Last Edit: January 3, 2023, 11:58:28 pm by Aeon »

Offline redmark

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #489 on: January 4, 2023, 09:44:13 am »
I keep reading this about Fabinho but he only turned 29 at the end of October and if I recall correctly didn’t start a WC game, whatever the issue is, it shouldn’t be his age or fitness surely?
I think some people misremember or misattribute what it was that made Fabinho an elite player in the first place. I don't think he was ever an elite typical defensive midfielder sweeping in front of the back four protecting them against the counter; his strength was subtly higher up the pitch, earlier in play: stopping a transition at source. He was elite in backing up the press, reading where the opposition were about to transition, winning second balls, recycling and picking out a clever pass. He's definitely lost (age? injury? illness?) a touch of athleticism necessary to make that initial adjustment, to close and win the ball with a lunge. He's never been quick over a distance, and it was never really the core of his game to cover in behind fullbacks.

It gives him, or us, a problem I think: because if we're not high intensity relentlessly pressing, I don't think he's the same player, even if he regains form and a bit of the missing athleticism. If we need a covering, sweeping DM, there are players with greater pace and stamina who can do that job more effectively.

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Offline fowlermagic

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #490 on: January 4, 2023, 04:02:25 pm »
I keep reading this about Fabinho but he only turned 29 at the end of October and if I recall correctly didn’t start a WC game, whatever the issue is, it shouldn’t be his age or fitness surely?

Surely Fabinho is one of our lesser worries in midfield as he might be the one who will still be here in two or three years time. As some have said he was never the quickest but made up for it in other ways as has great positional sense. The issues we have seen this season is probably two parts. He is struggling for form himself while also others around him are also falling short of their standards so Fabinho is fighting more onrushing opponents.

Considering the fall off in the teams pressure game and intensity we have to up our energy levels. Henderson and Thiago are three years older, surely won't be starting too many games in a row next season so why not bring in the two midfielders we are crying out for. Do it by next season so Henderson and Thiago can play when required but we are not reliant on them.
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Offline Cormack Snr

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #491 on: January 4, 2023, 08:17:03 pm »
Surely Fabinho is one of our lesser worries in midfield as he might be the one who will still be here in two or three years time. As some have said he was never the quickest but made up for it in other ways as has great positional sense. The issues we have seen this season is probably two parts. He is struggling for form himself while also others around him are also falling short of their standards so Fabinho is fighting more onrushing opponents.

Considering the fall off in the teams pressure game and intensity we have to up our energy levels. Henderson and Thiago are three years older, surely won't be starting too many games in a row next season so why not bring in the two midfielders we are crying out for. Do it by next season so Henderson and Thiago can play when required but we are not reliant on them.

Your right that Fabinho is one of our lesser evils but he still needs to be moved on in about two to three years if not before, we need to get out of the habit of keeping players like old cars and running them into the ground like the likes of Henderson and Milner. I know someone said to me that we are keeping them for their wonderful attributes as people and the way they handle themselves but for me we need to be more ruthless and I know Jurgen has been working with the cheque book locked away and nobody can find the key when a possible player comes along.

Offline Mighty_Red

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #492 on: January 5, 2023, 09:44:02 am »
Your right that Fabinho is one of our lesser evils but he still needs to be moved on in about two to three years if not before, we need to get out of the habit of keeping players like old cars and running them into the ground like the likes of Henderson and Milner. I know someone said to me that we are keeping them for their wonderful attributes as people and the way they handle themselves but for me we need to be more ruthless and I know Jurgen has been working with the cheque book locked away and nobody can find the key when a possible player comes along.
Sometimes by getting younger guys in, we can actually prolong the life and impact of the senior players. Right now, the only cover for Fabinho is Hendo which is completely physically unsustainable as Hendo is struggling to do the leg work and cover that many games. We have both Morton and Bajcetic but they could still be 12-18 months away from regularly starting games (or more) so are not realistic options yet.

Real have done it and managed to keep Kroos and Modric going for longer (albeit in a setup with different demands).

If we don't act this month and get help for Thiago, Fabinho and Hendo, we risk further injury to them and reduce their lifespan earlier.
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Offline nerdster4

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 07:24:13 pm »
I think it’s important to not form a view that players whose form has fallen off a cliff are beyond rescuing .

I remember Bernardo silva having a poor season then coming back very strongly .

Trent and Fabinho’s ages suggest that they might be able to come back . Selling them at deflated prices given their form will give us a bigger mountain to climb .

The goalkeeping department is in good shape . Upfront too we are well stacked despite some players being out of form . I d like to see the defence once our midfield is reinforced but in theory we should be ok .

Our midfield is in such dire straits . We only have 3 players in decent form and they comprise Thiago (older age bracket , injury prone at LFC), Keita (out of contract , very injury prone , rarely plays 90 minutes ) and Bacjetic (needs to bulk up , very inexperienced and prone to getting early yellow cards but very promising recently ). They will not play 90 minutes every game and possibly in the big games even if they did may not stem the tide sufficiently .

Henderson Fabinho and Jones are unable to make an impact when they come on . Jones and Harvey in any case much better further upfront which is very congested given recent signings .

We have to buy a minimum of one midfielder . Not doing so in January means a mid table finish . This means we might not get who we really want In the summer … we will need two midfielders for next season once Keita goes as well .

United just gave sanche a massive rest . Maybe Fabinho and Trent need something similar not selling

Offline El Lobo

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #494 on: Yesterday at 07:25:57 pm »
Wait wait…who the fuck is suggesting we sell Trent? :lmao Is that actually a thing?!
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?
« Reply #495 on: Yesterday at 07:27:44 pm »
Wait wait…who the fuck is suggesting we sell Trent? :lmao Is that actually a thing?!

Mad to do that.

That said you did think it was mental to consider not starting Fabinho earlier in the season ;D