Author Topic: Members Sales  (Read 1545330 times)

Offline Schmarn

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30320 on: February 7, 2023, 08:14:15 am »
You can understand why the club have tried this but to have a ticket system nobody but touts can navigate is a bit farcical.
What do they do though?
If they make it easier then bots win, if they make it harder then bots win.
Window sales isn't an option, that will see hundreds in the queue by 3am all paid for.
Maybe the team being so bad is a ploy by the ticket office to reduce demand.

Hereís one solution they refuse to try.  Buy tickets that have been put on tout sites, then once they have the seat number cancel the membership or ST that relates to it and impose a lifetime ban on the individual. They wouldnít even lose much money as any STs are paid in advance and they donít have to refund the unused part.

They could also get the police to raid those pricks who hand out dozens of passes at the game and do the same.

Local sales also should be binned or ID checked at the ticket window at pick up.

At the moment the system is almost designed for touts.

Offline Terry Hanks

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30321 on: February 7, 2023, 09:05:40 am »
Hereís one solution they refuse to try.  Buy tickets that have been put on tout sites, then once they have the seat number cancel the membership or ST that relates to it and impose a lifetime ban on the individual. They wouldnít even lose much money as any STs are paid in advance and they donít have to refund the unused part.

They could also get the police to raid those pricks who hand out dozens of passes at the game and do the same.

Local sales also should be binned or ID checked at the ticket window at pick up.

At the moment the system is almost designed for touts.
I think they have tried all of them already.
The ticket system is already unbelievably complicated, I still haven't got a clue how or if I can forward tickets.

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30322 on: February 7, 2023, 10:08:13 am »
Hereís one solution they refuse to try.  Buy tickets that have been put on tout sites, then once they have the seat number cancel the membership or ST that relates to it and impose a lifetime ban on the individual. They wouldnít even lose much money as any STs are paid in advance and they donít have to refund the unused part.

They could also get the police to raid those pricks who hand out dozens of passes at the game and do the same.

Local sales also should be binned or ID checked at the ticket window at pick up.

At the moment the system is almost designed for touts.

Didn't they have a team dedicated to looking into touting? We had all that with them banning memberships which is part of the reason we had to call it a day with the exchange.

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30323 on: February 7, 2023, 10:17:51 am »
Didn't they have a team dedicated to looking into touting? We had all that with them banning memberships which is part of the reason we had to call it a day with the exchange.

They must have disbanded the team very quickly because the touting website are rife with any amount tickets  :butt


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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30324 on: February 7, 2023, 10:34:27 am »
I think they have tried all of them already.
The ticket system is already unbelievably complicated, I still haven't got a clue how or if I can forward tickets.

When have they tried buying up tickets on tout sites and cancelling them? And why don't they simply keep doing it? It genuinely baffles me, and I've said on here before I don't know if there is a legal loophole stopping them from doing that or something, but the T&Cs seem quite clear on it. A simple Google of "Liverpool v Everton tickets" and the first hit is a site with 869 tickets available for the Derby. Those tickets range from £95 for a severely restricted view in the Lower Anny Road, to £2750 for seats in the Main Stand with 1892 Lounge access. Do the club not want to take the hit financially buy purchasing them? It seems like peanuts when you consider the weekly wages of players - and they could sell the tickets back to people at face value to recover some of the money. As for Season Tickets as someone said above these have already been paid for so the club wouldn't really lose much at all, and could immediately offer them to people at the top of the list in the summer.

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30325 on: February 7, 2023, 10:40:20 am »
When have they tried buying up tickets on tout sites and cancelling them? And why don't they simply keep doing it? It genuinely baffles me, and I've said on here before I don't know if there is a legal loophole stopping them from doing that or something, but the T&Cs seem quite clear on it. A simple Google of "Liverpool v Everton tickets" and the first hit is a site with 869 tickets available for the Derby. Those tickets range from £95 for a severely restricted view in the Lower Anny Road, to £2750 for seats in the Main Stand with 1892 Lounge access. Do the club not want to take the hit financially buy purchasing them? It seems like peanuts when you consider the weekly wages of players - and they could sell the tickets back to people at face value to recover some of the money. As for Season Tickets as someone said above these have already been paid for so the club wouldn't really lose much at all, and could immediately offer them to people at the top of the list in the summer.

For my sins, I used a tout site for an FA Cup Final ticket back in May. It would be a very expensive exercise for the club, but one that would wipe out hundreds of touts in an instant if they hoovered up all the tickets on that site.
They surely have all the details recorded for each seat number and who bought it.
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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30326 on: February 7, 2023, 10:56:37 am »
We are currently talking to senior members within the club. I can assure you the current issue is not been ignored from SOS. It requires a technical solution that only the club can provide. We are awaiting further information in relation to progress by the club.

Thanks for the response. Hopefully they will get it sorted soon. Otherwise years of hard work down the drain.

Offline didopich

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30327 on: February 7, 2023, 10:57:57 am »
They've never tried to buy from the tout sites. They did briefly went after single touts selling separately on tweeter and Facebook but never went through the tout sites. Those sites in many cases are the touts, they themselves buy tickets and resell, they also have some legal protection I believe which is stopping the club from going after them. Those sites employ staff to buy tickets in demand for games and concerts.

Offline Schmarn

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30328 on: February 7, 2023, 11:06:51 am »
They've never tried to buy from the tout sites. They did briefly went after single touts selling separately on tweeter and Facebook but never went through the tout sites. Those sites in many cases are the touts, they themselves buy tickets and resell, they also have some legal protection I believe which is stopping the club from going after them. Those sites employ staff to buy tickets in demand for games and concerts.

The website owners may have protection (i.e. "we don't know where people get their tickets from") but the ticketholder who bought the ticket and passed it on has no protection. The rules of membership and STH are quite clear on the rules around resale of tickets and allow plenty of leeway to legitimately pass tickets to Friends & Family and even to distribute. By contrast every ticket on resale sites is on sale for several multiples of face value and there is no legal defence for it.


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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30329 on: February 7, 2023, 11:10:04 am »
They've never tried to buy from the tout sites. They did briefly went after single touts selling separately on tweeter and Facebook but never went through the tout sites. Those sites in many cases are the touts, they themselves buy tickets and resell, they also have some legal protection I believe which is stopping the club from going after them. Those sites employ staff to buy tickets in demand for games and concerts.

The one that I used is a platform for touts as far as I know. They don't buy the tickets themselves, but just allow the touts to use the site and you're buying directly from them essentially with the site taking commission. A bit like JustEat I suppose  :D.
However it does appear to be regulated and the touts have to prove the tickets are genuine.
If I remember it is based in Spain, but the ticket I got was from a scouser. He called me to say the ticket has been left at my hotel reception.
My mate that also got one had a massive stress getting his sorted, but the site sourced him another one on the morning of the game after his first one didn't turn up. He'd to pick it up from a hotel in Mayfair, again from a scouser.
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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30330 on: February 7, 2023, 11:12:56 am »
The queue is a complete lottery anyway so they might as well just ballot everything where youíre not guaranteed a ticket.

If thereís an additional members sale then anyone who was unsuccessful just goes on a randomised waiting list and tickets get offered on a time limited basis to whoever is first on the list until theyíre all gone.

The whole process is so tiring and soul destroying anyway so what difference would it make?

Offline MacKon

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30331 on: February 7, 2023, 11:16:12 am »
If the club doesn't want to take a financial hit on this, they should use a few games in the early gameweeks against some less recognised opposition, like Bournemouth, Crystal Palace etc., so they probably pay less to buyout the ticket at the touting website and still have like 15 home games ahead, they can cancel the ST and put that seat back on regular sale on club's website for the remainder of the season, which returns the invested amount + returns the seat to the fans who actually want to go to the game.
Those on ST waiting list might get to their 'promised land' the following season or the seat might return to the bulk salem either option is better than leaving this seat sold at extortionate prices by the touts.
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Offline didopich

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30332 on: February 7, 2023, 12:59:28 pm »
The website owners may have protection (i.e. "we don't know where people get their tickets from") but the ticketholder who bought the ticket and passed it on has no protection. The rules of membership and STH are quite clear on the rules around resale of tickets and allow plenty of leeway to legitimately pass tickets to Friends & Family and even to distribute. By contrast every ticket on resale sites is on sale for several multiples of face value and there is no legal defence for it.
The ticket owners have the protection from the site. The site takes the money of the buyer, which is why the club can't touch them.  The sites being based in other countries may be helping them getaway with things. Pretty sure there was an investigation on BBC or summat back in the day and they showed you can't touch the sites legally. The club essentially does the same when the give tickets to be resold to other companies as part of so called packages. When you bring a case you have to bring it against the site otherwise they would have done it by now.

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30333 on: February 7, 2023, 01:39:33 pm »
The ticket owners have the protection from the site. The site takes the money of the buyer, which is why the club can't touch them.  The sites being based in other countries may be helping them getaway with things. Pretty sure there was an investigation on BBC or summat back in the day and they showed you can't touch the sites legally. The club essentially does the same when the give tickets to be resold to other companies as part of so called packages. When you bring a case you have to bring it against the site otherwise they would have done it by now.

Regardless of what protection is offered from the site, surely anyone who sells their ticket on it has broken the T&Cs of their Season Ticket/Membership and would have no leg to stand on legally if the club cancelled them? I'm not talking about going after the sites themselves here or even withholding the money they're selling the ticket for, I'm talking about the individuals touting tickets on them and cancelling their STs/Memberships.
« Last Edit: February 7, 2023, 01:48:47 pm by gregor »

Offline didopich

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30334 on: February 7, 2023, 02:30:29 pm »
I know what you mean but obviously that's not that easy, otherwise the club would have done it.
It could also be that the club will need to disclose the information how and where they got the person and sites may not be cooperating with them.  It's silly but there are lots of stupid things they need to show and prove how they obtained them.

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30335 on: February 7, 2023, 03:07:52 pm »
They donít need that much. They can trace the original purchaser just from the seat number, itíd be easy. Really wouldnít be hard for the club to root out repeat offenders, they wouldnít need anything more than the ticket. If anything dodgy had gone on youíd expect the ticket holder would have proof of reporting their phone as stolen etc so it wouldnít be difficult to prove what people were up to.

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30336 on: February 7, 2023, 03:09:22 pm »
I know what you mean but obviously that's not that easy, otherwise the club would have done it.
It could also be that the club will need to disclose the information how and where they got the person and sites may not be cooperating with them.  It's silly but there are lots of stupid things they need to show and prove how they obtained them.

I suppose that's what I'm getting at - I'm wondering if anyone knows what those barriers are. The sites wouldn't need to share any data with the club as they would have the person's seat details to hand once they bought the ticket. From a glance over the T&Cs on the website it pretty much seems like the club have covered their own arses on virtually any reason for the withdrawal of a ST, going as far as saying it remains their property and they can essentially take it back any time they like. In my opinion, in the case of a legal challenge by a ST holder that they had paid for a product that they couldn't use, the club should even be prepared to issue a pro rata refund to them before immediately cancelling the ST - that wouldn't cost them anything as they could sell the seat for the rest of the season on a game-by-game basis. I realise that all of this takes time, effort and money but if they are serious about tackling touting it seems like such an obvious fix.
« Last Edit: February 7, 2023, 03:11:01 pm by gregor »

Offline sharkeyb

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30337 on: February 7, 2023, 04:11:47 pm »
every single sale should be a ballot - will be a fair way of ensuring that people are selected at random rather than having a way to bypass the system.
 you should register for interest like the bulks and be offered a ticket so on and so forth
Sir, the cash monies?

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30338 on: February 7, 2023, 04:13:10 pm »
If the club doesn't want to take a financial hit on this, they should use a few games in the early gameweeks against some less recognised opposition, like Bournemouth, Crystal Palace etc., so they probably pay less to buyout the ticket at the touting website and still have like 15 home games ahead, they can cancel the ST and put that seat back on regular sale on club's website for the remainder of the season, which returns the invested amount + returns the seat to the fans who actually want to go to the game.
Those on ST waiting list might get to their 'promised land' the following season or the seat might return to the bulk salem either option is better than leaving this seat sold at extortionate prices by the touts.
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Offline anfieldash

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30339 on: February 7, 2023, 04:53:26 pm »
every single sale should be a ballot - will be a fair way of ensuring that people are selected at random rather than having a way to bypass the system.
 you should register for interest like the bulks and be offered a ticket so on and so forth

With the current chaos, absolutely this.

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30340 on: February 7, 2023, 10:23:09 pm »
Definitely loads more hospos for this one, never seen so many!

Because they know they can get away with charging £300 per seat for this game (or more), pure greed!
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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30341 on: February 8, 2023, 08:13:49 am »
Because they know they can get away with charging £300 per seat for this game (or more), pure greed!
Yep they know exactly what they are doing, cheapest hospo for this one is 690 quid...(Aintree, Hilton etc) Imagine paying that for a seat in the corner of the upper annie.. Think the exact same tickets were "only" 260 for Ajax

Edit: just seen a cheaper one for £546 in the Hilton.. absolute bargain!
« Last Edit: February 8, 2023, 08:16:54 am by Kenny19 »

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30342 on: February 8, 2023, 08:18:33 am »
Yep they know exactly what they are doing, cheapest hospo for this one is 690 quid...(Aintree, Hilton etc) Imagine paying that for a seat in the corner of the upper annie.. Think the exact same tickets were "only" 260 for Ajax

Edit: just seen a cheaper one for £546 in the Hilton.. absolute bargain!

Definitely pricing out locals. What average scouser has £546 disposable for one game!

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30343 on: February 8, 2023, 08:16:59 pm »
every single sale should be a ballot - will be a fair way of ensuring that people are selected at random rather than having a way to bypass the system.
 you should register for interest like the bulks and be offered a ticket so on and so forth
Can see your point mate 100% but for the supporters that have been building credits over the years, be a case of can't please everyone

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30344 on: February 8, 2023, 08:34:21 pm »
every single sale should be a ballot - will be a fair way of ensuring that people are selected at random rather than having a way to bypass the system.
 you should register for interest like the bulks and be offered a ticket so on and so forth

No way. The ballot is awful enough as it is. Truly stop the queue bypasses and have a totally random queue for each sale and I'd be happy.

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30345 on: February 8, 2023, 09:30:51 pm »
No way. The ballot is awful enough as it is. Truly stop the queue bypasses and have a totally random queue for each sale and I'd be happy.

they happen at the moment for bulk sales. you should register your intrest and then be put into a pool. if theres say 1000 tickets available then 2000 people should have the chance to buy a ticket.  it should work exactly the same as for finals. any left overs window sale them or something
Sir, the cash monies?

Offline NeoAdjuvant

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30346 on: February 9, 2023, 06:37:56 am »
every single sale should be a ballot - will be a fair way of ensuring that people are selected at random rather than having a way to bypass the system.
 you should register for interest like the bulks and be offered a ticket so on and so forth

Gets mentioned a few times this but I suspect it's actually a lot of work to co-ordinate for the club, instead of just dumping tickets onto the site at random.

Also the ballot is a bit crap imo. At least with the refreshing there's the illusion of being in control of buying your own tickets. The ballot is a joyless experience for the vast majority.

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30347 on: February 9, 2023, 11:45:44 am »
massive drop for everton there I was lucky enough to be online when it did, had a choice all round the ground

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30348 on: February 9, 2023, 11:54:56 am »
Think I missed the major drop, but managed to pick up a pair in AR Upper, that donít look like ST returns
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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30349 on: February 9, 2023, 11:58:58 am »
Think I missed the major drop, but managed to pick up a pair in AR Upper, that donít look like ST returns

I was on they drip fed the AR 227 and 228 ones out then hit a massive drop I picked up member returns in KL

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30350 on: February 9, 2023, 01:33:48 pm »
Iíve had a nightmare and looks like I wonít be able to make the game now. Iíve just tried to forward onto someone on my friends & family list but it goes back into the basket screen and wonít let me transfer it. Is this because they donít have the necessary 4 credits for a Cat A game?
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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30351 on: February 9, 2023, 01:35:06 pm »
Iíve had a nightmare and looks like I wonít be able to make the game now. Iíve just tried to forward onto someone on my friends & family list but it goes back into the basket screen and wonít let me transfer it. Is this because they donít have the necessary 4 credits for a Cat A game?

The recipient doesn't need any previous credits.

Assume you've accepted the terms and conditions on the 'purchase' screen?
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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30352 on: February 9, 2023, 01:41:16 pm »
Iíve had a nightmare and looks like I wonít be able to make the game now. Iíve just tried to forward onto someone on my friends & family list but it goes back into the basket screen and wonít let me transfer it. Is this because they donít have the necessary 4 credits for a Cat A game?

"Please note that tickets purchased during this sale WILL NOT be available to FORWARD or DISTRIBUTE to other supporters."

Probably explains why duvva.....
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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30353 on: February 9, 2023, 01:46:27 pm »
The recipient doesn't need any previous credits.

Assume you've accepted the terms and conditions on the 'purchase' screen?
"Please note that tickets purchased during this sale WILL NOT be available to FORWARD or DISTRIBUTE to other supporters."

Probably explains why duvva.....

Thereís no t&cís to tick, so sounds like theyíre not available to forward. However the Forward button isnít usually available if itís not an option is it?
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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30354 on: February 9, 2023, 02:11:17 pm »
Iíve had a nightmare and looks like I wonít be able to make the game now. Iíve just tried to forward onto someone on my friends & family list but it goes back into the basket screen and wonít let me transfer it. Is this because they donít have the necessary 4 credits for a Cat A game?

what happens in the basket screen you have to forward from that screen , theres a second dropdown at the bottom of that you select the receiver and proceed, does it go into the basket after this

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30355 on: February 9, 2023, 02:25:00 pm »
what happens in the basket screen you have to forward from that screen , theres a second dropdown at the bottom of that you select the receiver and proceed, does it go into the basket after this
When I click on Forward Iím able to choose the person I want to forward to, then it goes to the basket screen again. Thereís no further drop down there and the warning at the top says the person isnít eligible. As Scuzzy mentioned above it does say you canít forward or distribute in these late sales so itís probably that, but forward being available makes it a little confusing.

Should also note that the tickets are already bought theyíre not in the basket until I try to forward
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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30356 on: February 9, 2023, 02:30:05 pm »
My friend has just been told that itís because he hasnít got the NFC pass downloaded, and that once heís done that I should be able to forward them - does that sound right?

Looks like this has worked.

Still doesnít explain why I can forward when Iím the t&cís it says you canít, but Iíve given up trying to understand the rules and regs, thank god for this forum otherwise weíd be nowhere half the time
« Last Edit: February 9, 2023, 02:33:38 pm by duvva 💅 »
When I see the Bill Shankly statue, I look at the sentiment on the base. It says: 'He made the people happyí. Well now the modern Liverpool is making the fans and the city happy. And that makes me so proud." - Gerard Houllier

Offline Philipm20

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30357 on: February 9, 2023, 02:34:00 pm »
My friend has just been told that itís because he hasnít got the NFC pass downloaded, and that once heís done that I should be able to forward them - does that sound right?

Looks like this has worked.

Still doesnít explain why I can forward when Iím the t&cís it says you canít, but Iíve given up trying to understand the rules and regs, thank god for this forum otherwise weíd be nowhere half the time

Yes mate you need the NFC

Offline walterwhite

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30358 on: February 9, 2023, 02:48:13 pm »
My friend has just been told that itís because he hasnít got the NFC pass downloaded, and that once heís done that I should be able to forward them - does that sound right?

Looks like this has worked.

Still doesnít explain why I can forward when Iím the t&cís it says you canít, but Iíve given up trying to understand the rules and regs, thank god for this forum otherwise weíd be nowhere half the time

Yeah as you found out, if that warning comes up its says 1 of 0 allowed or something means the NFC isn't there to transfer it

Offline The_Rebel

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Re: Members Sales
« Reply #30359 on: February 9, 2023, 04:48:08 pm »
any drops for madrid yet? getting a bit sick of refreshing a thousand times a day now
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of the garden, I'd pull the curtains"