Topic: Coates confirmed

[dr.dracco]

Wouldn't Skrtel be suspended due to his sending off?

Adam and Skrtel were suspended for Brigton.

That said I think Skrtel - Coates combo would be class against Wolves. But I think Kenny will start with Carra-Skrtel for sure.

[keswick]

Have a feeling it will be Carra at RB and a Skrtel/Coates CB partnership!

[-Daws-]

Skrtel is suspended. Why are people suggesting he will play?

As much as I feel it really is time to drop Carra (only watched the highlights last night and still saw him make three glaring errors), unfortunately for next week our hands are tied.

Carra-Coates, has to be. No real choice unfortunately.

[CraigDS]

Skrtel was suspended last night. 1 game ban for two yellows.

Therefore he can play.

[junior soprano]

Skrtel is suspended. Why are people suggesting he will play?

As much as I feel it really is time to drop Carra (only watched the highlights last night and still saw him make three glaring errors), unfortunately for next week our hands are tied.

Carra-Coates, has to be. No real choice unfortunately.

2 yellows is a one match ban, he missed last nights game

[CraigDS]

As much as I feel it really is time to drop Carra (only watched the highlights last night and still saw him make three glaring errors), unfortunately for next week our hands are tied.

Didnt think he made any/many mistakes last night in a back 4 which had two 20yr olds and an 18yr old in it.

With Agger injured Carra plays, end of. The only two central defenders who can push him for his place currently are Agger and Skrtel.

Coates doesn't even come close yet and would be stupidity to suggest it.

[BarryCrocker]

Didnt think he made any/many mistakes last night in a back 4 which had two 20yr olds and an 18yr old in it.

With Agger injured Carra plays, end of. The only two central defenders who can push him for his place currently are Agger and Skrtel.

Coates doesn't even come close yet and would be stupidity to suggest it.

Didn’t he give away the penalty?

[CraigDS]

Didn’t he give away the penalty?

Did you see how that came about? Spearing didnt give much option but for Carra to go rushing over there - the touch on the player was next to nothing too.

[GEMSTAR58]

Did you see how that came about? Spearing didnt give much option but for Carra to go rushing over there - the touch on the player was next to nothing too.

The whole incident was from a moment of carelessness from Spearing. This, however, doesn't absolve Carra of any blame. He should have stood up to Vicente. Worst case scenario, Vicente would have got past him and have to produce a moment of magic to beat Reina from that position.

[CraigDS]

The whole incident was from a moment of carelessness from Spearing. This, however, doesn't absolve Carra of any blame. He should have stood up to Vicente. Worst case scenario, Vicente would have got past him and have to produce a moment of magic to beat Reina from that position.

Carra was coming across from the left centre back position to cover as Coates was out of position, as was Flannagan (who think was RB by this time). Carra was not in a position to get there and stand up to Vicente.

Im all for Carra being moved aside, and I agree he has made mistakes in the last year, but think its a bit harsh pinning too much on him from last night.

[-Daws-]

Did you see how that came about? Spearing didnt give much option but for Carra to go rushing over there - the touch on the player was next to nothing too.

Long before the penalty, when they came threw and Kelly made a superb sliding block infront of Reina? That came about because Carragher went and stood next to Coates (who had a man) instead of picking up clearly the most dangerous runner moving into the space Carra had moved out of to go and stand next to Coates for some God forsaken reason, and he was in. Only thanks to the brilliance of Kelly did we not conceade.

The penalty - yes Jay made a mistake, but Carragher is an extremely experienced professional who has played in two Champions League finals; he should have known better (especially with his recent record) than to fly into that challenge. There's no reason Jamie couldn't have stood him up and shown him away from goal - diving in like that was only ever going to end one way when the attacker has so long to see him coming and time to nip the ball away from the challenge and go down. Yes it was a shite decision by Jay to try and keep that in rather than clearing it, but he's a young lad. Carragher, should have known better and was at just as much fault as Spearing - yet he still felt it appropriate to bite his head of.

I'd bet good money that we will see Carra make more mistakes and start pointing the finger at Coates/Kelly or any of the young lads around him, destroying their confidence and making them scared to make errors.

RE Skrtel - yes sorry, I thought I saw the ref give him a straight red at the weekend, but it was too yellows so he is available. Not that he covered himself in glory against Spurs, being out-muscled by Defoe and whatnot.

[GEMSTAR58]

The penalty - yes Jay made a mistake, but Carragher is an extremely experienced professional who has played in two Champions League finals; he should have known better (especially with his recent record) than to fly into that challenge. There's no reason Jamie couldn't have stood him up and shown him away from goal - diving in like that was only ever going to end one way when the attacker has so long to see him coming and time to nip the ball away from the challenge and go down. Yes it was a shite decision by Jay to try and keep that in rather than clearing it, but he's a young lad. Carragher, should have known better and was at just as much fault as Spearing - yet he still felt it appropriate to bite his head of.

Exactly

[CraigDS]

I beg to differ that he could of stood up as per my post above.

Rushing over from left centre back to cover for bad positions from both Coates and Flannagan doesnt mean he can get there in any sort of time to stand up Vicente.

[GEMSTAR58]

I beg to differ that he could of stood up as per my post above.

Rushing over from left centre back to cover for bad positions from both Coates and Flannagan doesnt mean he can get there in any sort of time to stand up Vicente.

The same amount of time it would take him to stand up to Vicente would be the same amount of time he dove in. He simply made a miscalculation.

[-Daws-]

I beg to differ that he could of stood up as per my post above.

Rushing over from left centre back to cover for bad positions from both Coates and Flannagan doesnt mean he can get there in any sort of time to stand up Vicente.

Look at the angle he was at - he wasn't going to score with his first touch from there so why does Carra need to dive in? Why not stand up and block any attempted pass across goal?

As I say, Jay and Jamie are equally to blame for the pen, but at least Spearing can say that's the first goal he was at fault for this season - with Carra being at fault for almost all of them.

And as for the first one I mentioned - there is simply no defending Carra for that, he was all over the place. No doubt had we conceaded then, Carragher would have looked round and screamed at anyone he could to push the blame on.

I have little doubt that Kenny has a very keen eye on Carragher. If I can see that he's our biggest weakness and is constantly costing us goals/giving away good chances, then Kenny can too, and no doubt that once our best and senior defender is fit again, Carragher may find himself in a huff and puff sitting on the bench. Wonder if he will try and force Kenny out the club too.... 

[freedom]

Skrtel is suspended. Why are people suggesting he will play?

[Discipline]

Think there's more Carragher than Coates in this thread. 

[CraigDS]

with Carra being at fault for almost all of them.

Come off it.

I can see you have your mind made up over Carra and clearly some sort of hatred there given that last post so won't bother trying to argue the point further as doubt will get much sense of out it.

[-Daws-]

Come off it.

I can see you have your mind made up over Carra and clearly some sort of hatred there given that last post so won't bother trying to argue the point further as doubt will get much sense of out it.

You know little about my opinion of Jamie Carragher, I'm just pointing out his mistakes in the last game and also pointing out that they are far from the only ones he has made this season.

4-5 years ago I was convincing my peers and other supporters that Carra was one of the best centre halves in Europe - which he was. He was absolutely brilliant when it came to backs against the wall defending and generally was a far better all round defender than he is currently. I'm not knocking him, I love what Carra has done in the past - but the rose tinted specs need to come off and we need to look at how and why we are conceading so many goals - and one has to cast their eye on Jamie.

The trouble he has with getting older, is that because he was very much a 'blocker' type defender, he relied on recover speed, reactions and being able to put his body on the line - as he has aged he can not do this to the standard that he used to on such a regular basis. Don't get me wrong, I still think he is a very important part of our squad - he is perfect to come on and see out a 1-0 lead at Old Trafford, or in similar circumstances. Also, if he's had a few weeks rest and trained well, if and when he is called upon to start, he will be a better player than he is now, because his body has had a chance to recover and he is fit and ready to go.

Playing week-in week-out to me is making him a little sluggish - off the pace and therefore being taken advantage of. I mean take Sami; Rafa knew that Sami, at his age couldn't be expected to play week in week out at the highest and so he played him mainly in Europe. We need to do a similar thing with Jamie and give him less games so that he perfoms better when he is rested. Then he can play his 'all action' style of defending to a higher standard, of that I have little doubt.

I don't hate Carragher, he is one of my favorite all time players for his heart, his commitment, his loyalty and his passion - not to mention some outstanding defending on a regular basis over the past 7 or 8 years.

However, I know a weakness in a football team when I see one, particularly my own, and Carragher right now is that weakness, and we need to use him correctly in order to get the best out of him through the years he has left, and for me that's not playing week in week out; it might also help him extend his career a little longer if he isn't required to play every game of the season.

Anyway, enough about Carragher, this is a Coates thread - and for a young lad he seems to be doing alright. Need to see a little more of him before we can really start to judge his qualities/weakness in this league and at this level.

Yes I know! I've said sorry - genuinely thought he got a straight red, and have been moving house this week so my minds all over the place 

[Zaffarious]

saying that carra had to slide tackle in that situation is a load of bollocks. Terrible tackle, terrible decision making and put us under pressure. Yes it was a bad mistake by spearing but all Jamie had to do was stand up to the man. If vicente beats pepe from that angle then well done. If he doesn't shoot then he has to cut away from the goal and shoot which the defender has a chance of blocking and the keeper has a chance of saving.

If you are trying to justify that tackle as a viable response to spearingp mistake then I think you have never played football.

[sowellred]

mad reading this thread, i thought Coates really struggled all night, his distribution was up and down, his heading wasn't very commanding in either box and he was half a yard short in the tackle all night, including a few lunges that got us into trouble.

I wouldn't normally post on someone's first game but I sometimes wonder what game people watch, like they have already made their minds up before the game who has played well and who hasn't.

Looking at him last night, I thought he has all the physical attributes, and he certainly isn't slow as some have said, but he'll need time to settle obviously.  Mad dog Skrtel should come back into the team Saturday cos Coates isn't ready at the minute.

Agree, except I would like to see him again Saturday.

Thought he was very nervous and for the first half hour strayed out of position regularly. Didnt really show if he was up to the pace in England either.

I hope he gets the chance to play again this Saturday to show that it was all down to nerves. Wolves at home may prove to be the most appropriate opportunity to give him another run out.

[freedom]

Yes I know! I've said sorry - genuinely thought he got a straight red, and have been moving house this week so my minds all over the place 

haha , no problem mate!  just teasing you.

[-Daws-]

haha , no problem mate!  just teasing you.

With that profile picture... No fuckin' kiddin 

[drpepe]

I beg to differ that he could of stood up as per my post above.

Rushing over from left centre back to cover for bad positions from both Coates and Flannagan doesnt mean he can get there in any sort of time to stand up Vicente.

The same amount of time it would take him to stand up to Vicente would be the same amount of time he dove in. He simply made a miscalculation.

ever tried to sprint and then dead stop on a grass pitch?

If carra was going to get there in time to block a pass/shot then he had to sprint and that meant he had to "dive in".

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

Wolves, barring injury, will be Kelly Carra Skrtel Enrique. Same for Everton, then we will have to see if Agger is back for Utd. And I am not sure if Johnson would be a possibility for Utd, or if it will be longer.
Coates is a prospect, but he needs time, not to be thrown in and end up getting slammed when he gets sent off against Everton when it is played at 110mph with elbows flying.

[Uruguayan36]

Most people fail to understand that players are human beings and as such they always make mistakes.

[Eeyore]

Wolves, barring injury, will be Kelly Carra Skrtel Enrique. Same for Everton, then we will have to see if Agger is back for Utd. And I am not sure if Johnson would be a possibility for Utd, or if it will be longer.
Coates is a prospect, but he needs time, not to be thrown in and end up getting slammed when he gets sent off against Everton when it is played at 110mph with elbows flying.

Why not rest Carra for the Wolves game and bring him back fresh for the Derby. Carra's mistake against Bolton, playing Spurs on for the 4th goal and last nights penalty as well as Skrtel's mistake for Exeter's penalty have all come at the end of games when players have been tired.

We need Carra for the Derby and United so why risk a tired player picking up a 2nd yellow, an injury or a straight red for denying a goal scoring opportunity. If the likes of Coates, Skrtel, Wilson or even Wisdom are not good enough to play at home to Wolves then they shouldn't be at the Club.

Ferguson at United wouldn't think twice about doing it and we need to start showing more faith in our players. Kuyt looked totally revitalised last night after a rest and he Spearing, Maxi, Bellamy and Kelly brought much needed energy and freshness to the line up.

United for me haven't had the best starting 11 in the League for quite a while but they have upwards of 20 players who can come in and do a job and keep the starting line up fresh and hungry. They do it because they don't even worry about playing players like Jones, Cleverley and Wellbeck.

Likewise we shouldn't worry about pairing any of Coates, Skrtel and Wilson three full International Centre backs or backing youth and blooding Wisdom.

[-Daws-]

Most people fail to understand that players are human beings and as such they always make mistakes.

We all understand that mate, we're not fucking 8 year olds. It's just some people make more mistakes than others, and I don't think anyone is really doubting Coates ability in here, and we know that the best is yet to come, we've just got to wait a while to see it.

Nobody is getting on his case, so there's really no need to defend him too much.

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

Why not rest Carra for the Wolves game and bring him back fresh for the Derby. Carra's mistake against Bolton, playing Spurs on for the 4th goal and last nights penalty as well as Skrtel's mistake for Exeter's penalty have all come at the end of games when players have been tired.

We need Carra for the Derby and United so why risk a tired player picking up a 2nd yellow, an injury or a straight red for denying a goal scoring opportunity. If the likes of Coates, Skrtel, Wilson or even Wisdom are not good enough to play at home to Wolves then they shouldn't be at the Club.

Ferguson at United wouldn't think twice about doing it and we need to start showing more faith in our players. Kuyt looked totally revitalised last night after a rest and he Spearing, Maxi, Bellamy and Kelly brought much needed energy and freshness to the line up.

United for me haven't had the best starting 11 in the League for quite a while but they have upwards of 20 players who can come in and do a job and keep the starting line up fresh and hungry. They do it because they don't even worry about playing players like Jones, Cleverley and Wellbeck.

Likewise we shouldn't worry about pairing any of Coates, Skrtel and Wilson three full International Centre backs or backing youth and blooding Wisdom.

I think you're right, and i think Kenny may have the same view. If you can't trust these players at home to Wolves they should be playing reserve team football.

[smig]

The error he made when he played that ball is something he'll cut out with experience. He'll become a better player for that mistake. He shouldn't have been given the ball by Pepe in the first place mind as he was under pressure as soon as it was played to him. Impressive overall performance.

[Litmanen Legend]

Shaky at times but that is understandable for any new defender coming into a team, especially a young, foreign lad.

20 years old, so much room for development, can't wait to see him in 5 years time.

A lot of talk in the summer about Gary Cahill - I wasn't so keen. Overhyped, media sensation IMO.

Jan Vertonghen looks a great player. Ajax captain, 32 caps for Belgium,  24, 6ft2, 7 goals last season as a defender. Similar to Thomas Vermaelen, without the injuries.

Vertonghen and Coates future CB partnership?

[stevied]

I am not sure what Reina was doing rolling the ball to him knowing that the Brighton lads were closing us down quickly, he got away with it and will learn he is but just a boy

[Crosby Nick]

Have a feeling it will be Carra at RB and a Skrtel/Coates CB partnership!

I think (hope) that we've learnt our lesson now and that in the absence of Johnson RB should be shared between Kelly and Flanagan. Id not be afraid to play Kelly against Everton and United so given his twangy hamstrings I think maybe Flanagan might get a run out for this one.

None of which hasanything to do with Coates! Wouldn't mind seeing him have another game, either to rest Carra or to give him a spell alongside him at Skrtel's expense before making a call on those big games later in October.

[farawayred]

Interestig that he played right side and carra swapped to the left.

Seems clear that he has been bought as Carras replacement

Not sure if the two are linked. Carra was needed to provide leadership and cover. Kelly needed it less than Robinson as he's more established, and Coates is also more experienced (internationally). If Carra played on the right of Coates, the Robinson-Coates flank would have been significantly weaker, imo.

[farawayred]

Yes I know! I've said sorry - genuinely thought he got a straight red, and have been moving house this week so my minds all over the place 

The new place or the old place? 

[Kwaideng]

I am not sure what Reina was doing rolling the ball to him knowing that the Brighton lads were closing us down quickly, he got away with it and will learn he is but just a boy

He has only just been confirmed as well.

[Hank Scorpio]

Why not rest Carra for the Wolves game and bring him back fresh for the Derby. Carra's mistake against Bolton, playing Spurs on for the 4th goal and last nights penalty as well as Skrtel's mistake for Exeter's penalty have all come at the end of games when players have been tired.

We need Carra for the Derby and United so why risk a tired player picking up a 2nd yellow, an injury or a straight red for denying a goal scoring opportunity. If the likes of Coates, Skrtel, Wilson or even Wisdom are not good enough to play at home to Wolves then they shouldn't be at the Club.

Ferguson at United wouldn't think twice about doing it and we need to start showing more faith in our players. Kuyt looked totally revitalised last night after a rest and he Spearing, Maxi, Bellamy and Kelly brought much needed energy and freshness to the line up.

United for me haven't had the best starting 11 in the League for quite a while but they have upwards of 20 players who can come in and do a job and keep the starting line up fresh and hungry. They do it because they don't even worry about playing players like Jones, Cleverley and Wellbeck.

Likewise we shouldn't worry about pairing any of Coates, Skrtel and Wilson three full International Centre backs or backing youth and blooding Wisdom.

Hate to say it but United are a meritocracy.  It's the reason why these young players get through and look like they have been there forever.  We are not and have not been for over 15 years or more.  It's an issue Dalglish needs to address.

[babraham]

I thought he did just fine. Made some mistakes but did many things well too.

Where to start then?

Okay that pass was a shocker but easily correctable. I thought he played the ball on the floor well enough and even his long balls weren't exactly hoofs. There's a difference between being under pressure and so punting anywhere you can with distance versus what he does - which is pick out a player (often Suarez) and his passes seem to be kind of "driven" with power and are normally accurate. He certainly wasn't hitting high, floating, aimless punts.

One of the biggest concerns you have about really big and aerially dominant CBs is how do they fair when sucked out wide against a pacey winger or forward in space. I can remember him making one mistake on the right when the winger had beaten Kelly and then pushed it passed Coates who was sliding in after the ball was gone. However I can also remember two or three occasions where he was one on one with his man out wide and made the tackle/block/interception perfectly.

I thought his best tackle was one a couple yards outside the area in a central position where the player pushed it to Coates' left and looked to have shifted it wide enough that he was going to get around Coates but Coates stood his ground and stuck out a telescopic leg whilst staying on his feet to win the tackle. I thought it was a very impressive challenge! Looked like there was no way he could get there. All this whilst staying on his feet!

I can remember one long ball going over his head (to Carra I think) but even though he maybe misjudged it a bit, he nudged the striker far enough forward that there was no way the striker would get the ball. I also remember a corner that the other player got a weak, uncontrolled header to with Coates in the general area. Also there was the foul he made when he went up for one of our corners. Really I'm being hypercritical here though as he was very good in the air. These are the only aerial challenges I can think of where he didn't deal with it perfectly. Oh also there was the one headed pass of his to Kelly I think it was that went out for a throw in although a couple minutes later in a similar situation on the right he headed a perfect pass for our player to run on to. So apart from the headers mentioned above, I saw him win every other one and some of them flew a mile up field after making contact with his large noggin! One header in particular impressed me in that he was running backwards a bit and it looked to be going over his head but he jumped up and kind of torqued his body to reach the ball and get good contact despite back peddling.

I also noticed that he and Carra swapped sides from the Spurs game. Not sure why that was?

So he made some mistakes but for each type of mistake he made ie header, pass, tackle etc he did it well numerous times too. That's fine in a young player. The consistency will improve without doubt given his age and how new everything would have been for him. I've seen him do enough things well in a game and a half to leave me feeling optimistic about his future!

[s_andrews89]

babraham,

Didn't wanna quote as that was a monster post! However I agree with everything. Certainly looks like both one hell of a prospect but also a really good player for *now*. If it's possible to be both!

Made a few mistakes but mostly was composed and in control. Looks a threat in the opposition box too which is always nice. Hope he gets a few games with Agger personally. Certainly deserves to start against Wolves in my book.

[thelinnen]

I thought he was very good considering it was his full debut and against an attacking team. He made some excellent slide tackles at times and the only bad moment I can think of was when he made that ridiculous pass to Brighton's left footed winger who hit the bar.