Topic: Hoffenheim (Utah 86) 1 - 2 Liverpool (TAA 34', Milner 74'). FT

[Red_Faction]

I don't post that much in here but I am long time lurker.

I can't believe the level of negatively about us from 'fans'. We won well last night, we could have won by more, yes they created chances and we made mistakes but you know what, our keeper saved them or the missed them - just like we do.

Hoffenheim are a very good team, we did very well to beat them and what we need is for fans to actually stop wetting the bed that other teams have created chances and look at the positives for gods sake.

Anyone would think from reading some of this thread that we had lost - pathetic support in my opinion

[Samie]

Obviously the second leg will be the first game in Europe since we upped the capacity to 54k so what was the previous record attendance for a European game anyone know? 

[Koprich]

Lovren actually improved a lot in the 2nd half and was unlucky not to score. The bigger problems we have is Moreno and our dysfunctional midfield.

Why are people jumping on Moreno after that game?

I mean, i HATED Moreno after the EL final and could not imagine ever being happy to see him in the shirt again but he didn't really do anything wrong yesterday. A few minor mistakes but he was defending 2v1 situations all night because Mane was given license to roam and as soon as Hoffenheim won the ball they did a long switch over to Moreno's side and overloaded him with a 2v1.

[SJR_94]

This is very true. Always have and always will. Klopp knows Europe. We will be ready for the 2nd leg. No doubt Hoffenheim is no mugs. And they will be coming at us. Would love it if we stuff them, just to shut Nagelsmann up and some of the cry babies here

Completely agree with this.... We went into a 2 goal lead without really building up any sort of rhythm at all, worth noting we missed a few very good chances too (as did they). Another game on Saturday to build up a bit of sharpness and i'm confident we'll see a mature performance from the lads next week. They're going to come out all guns blazing, important that we play our game and don't get drawn into the occasion. Control the tempo, wait for our chance and kill them off..... If only it was as simple as it sounds eh!

[Oddball]

I was impressed with hoffenheim.

We were very poor again though

So you were impressed by Hoff, and we were poor, yet we beat the team you were impressed by by being poor.

Honest to god, where the fuck do some of these posters originate from!?

[redmark]

Honest to god, where the fuck do some of these posters originate from!?

T'internet.

[rowan_d]

Some of Hoffenheim's one touch passing was brilliant tbf

[Oddball]

T'internet.

Baffles the brain my friend...no wonder my head is shaped so oddly!

[Keita Success]

Not posted about this yet, to let the flow of drivel slow down.

Most people were saying that they'd take a score draw, especially away in the European leg. We're now massive favourites for a tie against a very tough opposition. We played against a team that finished in the top 4 in Germany, and, I'd argue, we're much better than them.

Downsides are that we left Moreno very isolated - as previously stated. He was left in 2 vs 1 situations and it's not his fault that he looked vulnerable. The final set-piece, we really switched off, but that's the exception to how we defended set-plays, rather the rule. Finally, Alexander-Arnold did switch off for their goal, it's the classic 'play to the whistle-, but it's something that'll surely come.

Upsides are that we fought. We weren't perfect - particularly defensively - but we scrapped, fought and put bodies on the line. Migs was superb, genuinely one of his best performances. He was calm, assured and did saved everything that he should've, and then some. Our attacking play was brilliant, again. We should've scored more than 2. I think that having Moreno and TAA up the flanks does actually help the team going forward. Milner and Clyne are definitely less progressive in terms of their approach play, but we do certainly lose some stability - something that I didn't think we'd manage to get less of 

Only massive downside is some of the fans. We're fucking exciting. This is proper football. It's an emotional rollercoaster. Piss off if you don't like it, but it's football. There are no certainties (except people moaning about Moreno and set-pieces).

[lfc79]

Defensively at the moment the only way is to stop the other side getting into our half, and ensure that any long balls forward are done under pressure.
Few to many individual errors from the defenders due to lack of confidence.
Perhaps most importantly when defending our players need to get goal side of the man and force teams to play back, particularly the fullbacks stopping players going down the line and force them back inside to cross on their weaker foot and avoid the risk of corners.

Loads of positives to take and these have both been away games hopefully we will be more settled at home.

[Keita Success]

I was impressed with hoffenheim.

We were very poor again though

No creativity in midfield, leaving our forwards to feed on scraps and poor at the back as usual.

That said, very happy with the result.

I'm praying we still have time to get a couple of transfer deals over the line...

Think we watched a different game. We won. We had more shots, more on target.

One thing I would say about the midfield is that one pass through our pressing, and we do seem very vulnerable.

[Koprich]

So you were impressed by Hoff, and we were poor, yet we beat the team you were impressed by by being poor.

Honest to god, where the fuck do some of these posters originate from!?

I'm baffled at how you're unable to read and understand what he's saying.

He's saying that we played poor relative to our potential, they played better than he was expecting and as such impressed him. If you think we're supposed to be a better team than them, it doesn't mean we put in a stellar performance just because we managed to beat them.

To take it to an extreme, if we play a second division side and they put in the performance of their lives and manage to hold us to a 2-1, does that mean we played well? No, by only beating a second division side 2-1, we must have played like utter shit.

That's his point.

The only thing questionable about it is believing that Hoffenheim are significantly below us.

[Red Bird]

Lovren actually improved a lot in the 2nd half and was unlucky not to score. The bigger problems we have is Moreno and our dysfunctional midfield.

The parts about a poor midfield and Lovren's second-half improvement are true. That about Moreno is untrue, at least from the match I saw. He was often left exposed to two attackers.

[Alan_X]

It was amazing to go from reading this thread to the Wrap's post game show and the BBC's reporting of the match. It was like they'd watched a different game. Or rather, they'd watched the same game that I'd watched.

[Alan_X]

I'm baffled at how you're unable to read and understand what he's saying.

He's saying that we played poor relative to our potential...

No he isn't:

I was impressed with hoffenheim.

We were very poor again though

No creativity in midfield, leaving our forwards to feed on scraps and poor at the back as usual....

Absolutely nothing about playing to our potential. On the contrary, we were 'poor... ...as usual'

[Koprich]

No he isn't:

Absolutely nothing about playing to our potential. On the contrary, we were 'poor... ...as usual'

Well, so far this season we have been quite poor in both competitive games. Some good things to be positive about (the attack mostly) but also plenty to be concerned about.

I'm not as doom and gloom as him as I think we'll pick up for the next leg at Anfield (potentially at the cost of a dodgy performance against palace at the weekend) but what he was saying was fairly obvious; Hoffenheim exceeded expectations and we didn't play well.

[jillcwhomever]

I thought in the second half especially we gave a really disciplined European performance. Hoffenheim looked to have lost a little hope, and we kept it tight but were still looking to score another goal when we could. It was only the mistake near the end that gave them a renewed bit of confidence, so we were under pressure a bit. But I'm delighted with the result and before this game we'd have taken it.

[the_red_pill]

Well, so far this season we have been quite poor in both competitive games. Some good things to be positive about (the attack mostly) but also plenty to be concerned about.

I'm not as doom and gloom as him as I think we'll pick up for the next leg at Anfield (potentially at the cost of a dodgy performance against palace at the weekend) but what he was saying was fairly obvious; Hoffenheim exceeded expectations and we didn't play well.

Yet we beat them; and we're dragging a 2-goal away lead back to Anfield.

And that's what matters; and that's worth remembering; and that's what Alan and Oddball is saying.

[Samie]

They exceeded expectations? The fuck! They've been unbeaten at home for 16 months till last night.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Hoffenheim exceeded expectations and we didn't play well.

Whose expectations? Do you think their fans were happy after the game? lost their first game at home in 17 months.

[Keita Success]

I'm baffled at how you're unable to read and understand what he's saying.

He's saying that we played poor relative to our potential, they played better than he was expecting and as such impressed him. If you think we're supposed to be a better team than them, it doesn't mean we put in a stellar performance just because we managed to beat them.

To take it to an extreme, if we play a second division side and they put in the performance of their lives and manage to hold us to a 2-1, does that mean we played well? No, by only beating a second division side 2-1, we must have played like utter shit.

That's his point.

The only thing questionable about it is believing that Hoffenheim are significantly below us.

I don't understand? They're not a division below. They finished 4th in the top German league. Unbeaten at home for 17 months. We won. They didn't. Stop trying to defend the indefensible. It's not 5Live on a Saturday morning. His comment and attitude is shit.

[Solomon Grundy]

That about Moreno is untrue

Disagree. Thought he was shockingly bad defensively.

[Keita Success]

Disagree. Thought he was shockingly bad defensively.

See, from what I saw, Moreno was very badly isolated in 2 v 1 situations. I think any fullback would struggle in the positions that Moreno ended up in, largely due to his lack of protection from the midfield and Mané

[Alan_X]

See, from what I saw, Moreno was very badly isolated in 2 v 1 situations. I think any fullback would struggle in the positions that Moreno ended up in, largely due to his lack of protection from the midfield and Mané

And it was pretty obvious that he was played to stretch the right hand side of their defence with Mané. We could have had a defender who gave a perfect defensive display but offered no pace going forward.

[Oddball]

I'm baffled at how you're unable to read and understand what he's saying.

He's saying that we played poor relative to our potential, they played better than he was expecting and as such impressed him. If you think we're supposed to be a better team than them, it doesn't mean we put in a stellar performance just because we managed to beat them.

To take it to an extreme, if we play a second division side and they put in the performance of their lives and manage to hold us to a 2-1, does that mean we played well? No, by only beating a second division side 2-1, we must have played like utter shit.

That's his point.

The only thing questionable about it is believing that Hoffenheim are significantly below us.

Im baffled at how you missed my sarcasm.

I didnt bother reading after your 1st line, what with that being such an opener and all.

[kkjellquist]

2-1 is good....2-0 would have been massively better IMO.  If they get an early goal at Anfield it's going get tense real fast! 

[Koprich]

I don't understand? They're not a division below. They finished 4th in the top German league. Unbeaten at home for 17 months. We won. They didn't. Stop trying to defend the indefensible. It's not 5Live on a Saturday morning. His comment and attitude is shit.

I'm trying to defend being moany after a win, I'm just contesting the point that a win means it was a good performance. Based on what I actually saw from our players, quite a few of them had quite ropey games. The win is cause for celebration but the performance is cause for slight concern and I'm sure Klopp knows that this team needs to step it up a gear.

On a related note, Gini is really disappointing me so far this season. What's up with him? Looks lost, doesn't seem to have much fight in him. I had really high hopes for him to kick on after quite an impressive first season and in season and the two games so far it looks like he's gone backwards.

[stewil007]

And it was pretty obvious that he was played to stretch the right hand side of their defence with Mané. We could have had a defender who gave a perfect defensive display but offered no pace going forward.

Like with most things in this world, its should be about balance.

Do we gain more by allowing Mane to bomb forward without concentrating on the defensive part of the game against leaving Moreno isolated and hoping we score more than we concede

I would argue that until we are up to speed we need to protect Moreno, I'm wondering whether this could be achieved by switching Salah and Mane???  Salah seemed to have more defensive want about him and the right hand side doesn't appear to be our biggest issue currently.

[Adam_LFC]

Actually think for the majority of the second half we improved loads. We looked much fitter than them and were growing into the game both offensively and defensively. I think there was a period of 2 or 3 corners in a row for them which we defended pretty well.

Then when Firmino came off it seemed to go downhill. Not long after they scored and put us under pressure for the rest of the game. We still need to learn how to close games off. Especially if we are to do well in Europe.

2-1 on paper though is a fantastic result and puts us in a great position for next week.

[Wabaloolah]

Imagine this thread if we'd lost the game, reading it though that's exactly what you'd think had  happened if you weren't aware of the score!

[JackWard33]

Imagine this thread if we'd lost the game, reading it though that's exactly what you'd think had  happened if you weren't aware of the score!

Dunno - I haven't found it super negative apart from a few posters which is always the case.

Really it was an even game (it was even on ExpG .... even to the eye test) ... they had a period of supremacy in the first half hour we had one for much of the second half.... they hit the post, missed a penalty and missed a free header 6 yards out - it was basically even on chances.
I'm not into negativity without reason.. but at the same time our midfield and especially our defence have problems at the moment - people are going to express their worries about that on a forum post match.
After all this is a tie to go into the Champions league proper so the bar should be high.

Don't think there's any LFC who isn't pleased with the result. But if this was half time in a cup final you wouldn't be sitting back crowing about how dominant we'd been - you'd be pleased but have reservations about the problems that exist.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Positives

- It is a fantastic result away to a good side. They have a great home record.
- Attack looks dangerous already even though it is obviously still learning to play together.
- TAA looks to have bags of ability
- We did not give up that many chances

Negatives

- The few chances we did give up were very high quality ones for the opposition. They really should have scored that free header.
- There is so much space between the fullbacks and the CBs and the midfield and the defence.
- Midfield looks a bit lost and short on creativity. Still does not shield the defence well enough.

[heroes123]

by jove some of you here need to get a grip.
theyll be coming here needing two goals. salah and co will tear them to shreds
not worried at all about our prospects.
and ohh.. that guy is a c*nt.. who was it springman or something..the manager

[Djozer]

Dunno - I haven't found it super negative apart from a few posters which is always the case.

Really it was an even game (it was even on ExpG .... even to the eye test) ... they had a period of supremacy in the first half hour we had one for much of the second half.... they hit the post, missed a penalty and missed a free header 6 yards out - it was basically even on chances.
I'm not into negativity without reason.. but at the same time our midfield and especially our defence have problems at the moment - people are going to express their worries about that on a forum post match.
After all this is a tie to go into the Champions league proper so the bar should be high.

Don't think there's any LFC who isn't pleased with the result. But if this was half time in a cup final you wouldn't be sitting back crowing about how dominant we'd been - you'd be pleased but have reservations about the problems that exist.

Sounds reasonable to me, man. We should be happy with the result, certainly, but at the same time recognise that there are still some issues with the team. Hopefully we're playing our way into form, but I don't think I'll ever feel completely comfortable seeing Moreno and Lovren as the left side of the defence, though I have faith that both can perform better than they have done in the previous two games.

I also think we need something else in midfield, but at the same time realise that was always going to be the case given the absence of both Coutinho and Lallana. In spite of this it was a very good result, and I'd have been ecstatic had anyone offered me a 2-1 win before the game. I'd like to think we're on an upward curve but yeah, far too early to start patting everyone on the back.

[Fromola]

by jove some of you here need to get a grip.
theyll be coming here needing two goals. salah and co will tear them to shreds
not worried at all about our prospects.
and ohh.. that guy is a c*nt.. who was it springman or something..the manager

Well we're not a side who can close the tie out. We're going to give them plenty of chances (set pieces for starters) so they're well capable of getting those two goals back.

We need to make sure we score a couple on the night.

[Samie]

Well we're not a side who can close the tie out. We're going to give them plenty of chances (set pieces for starters) so they're well capable of getting those two goals back.

We need to make sure we score a couple on the night.

So if they're capable of scoring two isn't our front line as well? I mean at home we'd have more possession of the ball n'all.  Sturridge will be back too for added fire power as well.

[JD.]

If we are as open as we were last night against the better teams in the groups who have better -more clinical - front lines then we will get slaughtered.

Thankfully, I don't think we will be. You just need to look at our record against the big teams since Jurgen took over. We don't concede much in the big matches.

[Fromola]

So if they're capable of scoring two isn't our front line as well? I mean at home we'd have more possession of the ball n'all.  Sturridge will be back too for added fire power as well.

We are, but we'll need to.

Hoffenheim missed a pen last night, missed at least two or three other sitters (we should have scored more too). If the game is going to be that end to end again then it comes down to who puts the most chances away.

It could easily finish 4-3 either way next week. It's not a Rafa/Houllier=type second leg on the cards where we'll play out the 0-0/1-0 if we need to. That great night against Dortmund but they scored 3 goals quite easily on the night and could have scored more. Playing open at home is more dangerous with away goals.

[Studgotelli]

Lovren actually improved a lot in the 2nd half and was unlucky not to score. The bigger problems we have is Moreno and our dysfunctional midfield.

Fair enough I'm not in the best position to comment on the match. Just whenever I could watch he was all over the place.

[mersey_paradiso]

Obviously the second leg will be the first game in Europe since we upped the capacity to 54k so what was the previous record attendance for a European game anyone know? 

55,104 v Barcelona (1975-76, UEFA Cup semi-final, second leg) , so we won't be beating that unless we expand the Anfield Road End.

Will still be a cracking atmospehre against Hoffenheim though.


EDIT : Wouldn't be surprised if the St Etienne game beat that. The official attendance was 55,043 but loads more than that must have got in !