Author Topic: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager  (Read 55959 times)

Offline horne

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #200 on: December 30, 2012, 12:30:10 am »
sometimes...it is best to say nothing....time is the healer
success = the absence of the fear of failure

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #201 on: December 30, 2012, 12:31:38 am »
Shall I fetch my bow & arrow?
no.
we're sending you and RGF30 up front as cannon fodder.  ;D

Offline 24/7

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #202 on: December 30, 2012, 12:37:57 am »
On 2nd thoughts, cba.

Offline NOTBORNIN1982

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #203 on: December 30, 2012, 12:38:20 am »
The way our 'support' has tumbled into disarray (more so the internet troglodytes) over recent years is somewhat depressing. I sometimes wonder why I read some of the utter shite on here, it's a source of huge frustration but I suppose that's my problem.

Does anyone esle wonder if there is anyway of a mass culling of all the twats with idiotic view points... alas... I fear it's to late and far too complicated, there are far too many in circulation already and I really don't see it as being a feasible option even though morally and ethically it's the right thing to do.

Decent article this, regardless of it stating the patently obvious - truth. Infact I think you are too kind in many regards...

#masscullingofliverpoolinternettwats
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 12:45:59 am by NOTBORNIN1982 »
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Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #204 on: December 30, 2012, 12:42:46 am »
Apart from the title, sorry to say, a load of sentimental clap trap - lost on those who think they know, those who'll never know and those who've forgot how to know.

In my humble opinion, of course.


If you, or anyone, thinks we're turning into Newcastle, then you're abar 5 years to late. We've already arrived, supped the Newcastle brown ale and are well on the way of pissing the Holsten Pills high and mighty up the wall. Next on the list, Boddingtons..... We don't just like re-live the 80's, we're living in it, the sad also ran fan way.
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Offline Slightly Less Mediocre Baron Bennekov

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Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #205 on: December 30, 2012, 12:46:14 am »
Absolutely agree with the OP. Spot on, 92A / Albie. :thumbup

Offline jaffod

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #206 on: December 30, 2012, 12:51:51 am »
I'm giving BR the benefit of the doubt still although I have to say I'm somewhat perplexed by his inability to pinpoint major flaws in our play and address them.
 The next week will make or break him I feel. I don't want that to sound over-dramatic but PL games against QPR and Sunderland and a trip to Mansfield in the FA Cup could prove to be a real tipping point in terms of how he is perceived/supported.
 

Online Draex

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #207 on: December 30, 2012, 12:53:42 am »
Excellent OP, but it should be a given!

My major worry is the players - they need to read something like this.. It's not Rodgers have no faith in, it's some of the senior players who seem to be undermining Rodgers and what he wants to achieve here through being shithouses and not bleeding for the club.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #208 on: December 30, 2012, 12:54:16 am »
Assumed supporting our manager would be a given.

You would think so but when I stated it is in our DNA, I got the old superfan jibe about it. Days have changed , fans have changed , thank Christ Rawk hasn't changed, and you know you can be a Rafa fan/ Kenny fan/ and still support Brendan these are not exclusive of each other you know. You also cannot judge Brendan against them either.
Yes you can grumble about selections and subs, we all have done that for decades but we do not call for our manager head and certainly not after half a season, I don't include Hodgson as a manager of this club as he never acted like one , on and off the pitch. ( just before anyone wrongly uses him)
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline John C

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #209 on: December 30, 2012, 01:07:14 am »
I'm giving BR the benefit of the doubt still although I have to say I'm somewhat perplexed by his inability to pinpoint major flaws in our play and address them.
 The next week will make or break him I feel. I don't want that to sound over-dramatic but PL games against QPR and Sunderland and a trip to Mansfield in the FA Cup could prove to be a real tipping point in terms of how he is perceived/supported.
 
Nah, you're wrong there mate, and I say that with upmost respect because I know you're a regular match goer - although that doesn't put anyone in a position of authority. If we lose against QPR it will hurt and it will be dissected, it we lose in the Cup there'll be calls for Cameron to be killed at dawn for crimes against football, but in the holistic scheme it doesn't matter. What matters is the next two windows and the players he gets to take us to where we need to go. If Allen, Henderson & Shelvey are still our midfield options next September then I'll risk a life long ban from RAWK and call him out.

Of course I'll also be looking at his in-game management and his subs along the way - they are important issues. Some we'll agree with some we won't.

Offline daxmat

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #210 on: December 30, 2012, 01:20:58 am »
Seems a good guy and I want to see his vision completed . Great OP .

Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #211 on: December 30, 2012, 01:22:51 am »
Nah, you're wrong there mate, and I say that with upmost respect because I know you're a regular match goer - although that doesn't put anyone in a position of authority. If we lose against QPR it will hurt and it will be dissected, it we lose in the Cup there'll be calls for Cameron to be killed at dawn for crimes against football, but in the holistic scheme it doesn't matter. What matters is the next two windows and the players he gets to take us to where we need to go. If Allen, Henderson & Shelvey are still our midfield options next September then I'll risk a life long ban from RAWK and call him out.

Of course I'll also be looking at his in-game management and his subs along the way - they are important issues. Some we'll agree with some we won't.

Come on, I know there's many calls for calm and patience, but with calm and patience, must come results, an inability to beat QPR and Mansfield, alarm bells will be ringing. This whole 'it's the transfer windows that matter', well not really, he has a job to do, and that's to win games. He wasn't hired, just to get us playing, when he has his ideal eleven. If that was the case, why do we bother travelling all over England every week, why not just save the travel expenses, and put them towards our wage budget, and then start playing again, when Rodgers has his dream team?

Liverpool Football Club are not some hatchet experiment, being carried out by Weird Wally, in his shed next door.

In saying that, I think we'll win both games.

Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #212 on: December 30, 2012, 01:24:47 am »
no.
we're sending you and RGF30 up front as cannon fodder.  ;D

In that case, I better brush my teeth, and freshen my breath.

Offline John C

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #213 on: December 30, 2012, 01:25:46 am »
Come on, I know there's many calls for calm and patience,
If we lose both games I'll have a fucking duck egg, but do you really think BR should be dismissed for it? Leave it out.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #214 on: December 30, 2012, 01:28:08 am »
If he got the results you would not need so much patience which is why he needs our patience and it needs to be not dependant on any other issues at all.
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline rusty-la

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #215 on: December 30, 2012, 01:32:26 am »
If he got the results you would not need so much patience which is why he needs our patience and it needs to be not dependant on any other issues at all.

Amen

Offline PattoLFC

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #216 on: December 30, 2012, 01:36:07 am »
That O.P is a brilliant piece, well worth the read.

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #217 on: December 30, 2012, 01:41:28 am »
Lets get one thing straight Brendan Rodgers is nowhere near good enuogh to be the liverpool manager.

But I thought the whole point was a young manager with potential that is going to learn and turn into a
top manager.
That is how I understood his appointment, the guy needs to make mistakes its the best way to learn.
If I thought he was already the finished article I would want him out now.
But he's been in the job 5 minutes, surely not enuogh time for him to adapt and learn.
This was always a long term plan.

Online kennedy81

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #218 on: December 30, 2012, 01:43:32 am »
Come on, I know there's many calls for calm and patience, but with calm and patience, must come results...

that doesn't even make sense.
if we were getting results, there'd be no need for calm and patience,
we'd all be having a party and talking about next years CL campaign.

calling every game a 'must win or else' scenario only feeds the media trolls who are just itching to see LFC fans turn on their man.
granted we could be doing better, but John C's right,
let's see how much FSG are really prepared to back him and what he does with that backing, before we start rolling the guillotines out.

Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #219 on: December 30, 2012, 01:43:59 am »
If he got the results you would not need so much patience which is why he needs our patience and it needs to be not dependant on any other issues at all.

Look, regardless what transition you're going through, a win away to West Ham being you're finest hour, during the first half of a season, is pretty grim.


I'm not subscribed to this '2/3 years regardless of results' ideology. I'm a patient guy, my missus will tell you it's one of my redeeming features, but I want some tangible signs along the way, that something bigger and better is afoot.

As I've said elsewhere, my concerns don't stop at Result's door. I'm also concerned about the performances on the field.

The defence concerns me and the midfield frightens me, I actually think, all things consider, attack has been the best of the three.

I'm glad we swerved Dempsey in the summer, whoever it was down to, I thank them. Signing him would have left us lumbered with another ageing carthorse.

Instead, it has given us the chance to introduce some talented youngsters, and they've performed well so far.

Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #220 on: December 30, 2012, 01:46:14 am »
Lets get one thing straight Brendan Rodgers is nowhere near good enuogh to be the liverpool manager.

But I thought the whole point was a young manager with potential that is going to learn and turn into a
top manager.
That is how I understood his appointment, the guy needs to make mistakes its the best way to learn.
If I thought he was already the finished article I would want him out now.
But he's been in the job 5 minutes, surely not enuogh time for him to adapt and learn.
This was always a long term plan.

How long could or should that plan be?
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Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #221 on: December 30, 2012, 01:49:07 am »
How long could or should that plan be?
more than six months.

Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #222 on: December 30, 2012, 01:56:20 am »
more than six months.
Quite stoic on your behalf, but how long?.........(There seems to be an insurmountable clamor in this place to say when he should go, so i'll geg in :) )
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Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #223 on: December 30, 2012, 01:57:21 am »
that doesn't even make sense.

It does make sense. I'm not talking about winning every game, I'm talking about results that give everyone a real lift, a lift where we want to fight the world.

How many results can you look at, so far this season, and think "Fuck me, that was a great result"?

We need to have the odd result where we can look back and think "Fuck me, that was nice, I can't wait til we do that again" Don't get me wrong, I'll never complain about any victory, but scraping by relegation combats at home, is not such a result. Drawing any game, is not such a result.

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #224 on: December 30, 2012, 01:57:25 am »
Look, regardless what transition you're going through, a win away to West Ham being you're finest hour, during the first half of a season, is pretty grim.


I'm not subscribed to this '2/3 years regardless of results' ideology. I'm a patient guy, my missus will tell you it's one of my redeeming features, but I want some tangible signs along the way, that something bigger and better is afoot.

As I've said elsewhere, my concerns don't stop at Result's door. I'm also concerned about the performances on the field.

The defence concerns me and the midfield frightens me, I actually think, all things consider, attack has been the best of the three.

I'm glad we swerved Dempsey in the summer, whoever it was down to, I thank them. Signing him would have left us lumbered with another ageing carthorse.

Instead, it has given us the chance to introduce some talented youngsters, and they've performed well so far.
I agree but don't you think he has the ability to learn.
Hodgson was as good as he was going to get Rodgers is a young ambitious manager at the start of his career

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #225 on: December 30, 2012, 02:00:36 am »
Quite stoic on your behalf, but how long?.........(There seems to be an insurmountable clamor in this place to say when he should go, so i'll geg in :) )
I think at least 3 years, but FSG will have to back him with some serious cash if we're to get back into the top 4 in that time.

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #226 on: December 30, 2012, 02:03:18 am »
Quite stoic on your behalf, but how long?.........(There seems to be an insurmountable clamor in this place to say when he should go, so i'll geg in :) )
2 years.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #227 on: December 30, 2012, 02:09:28 am »
Apart from the title, sorry to say, a load of sentimental clap trap
Really? That's surprising to be honest. You might go a bit far with the old windups sometimes Chops but you're the kind of supporter we actually want to cherish on here, truly, and we would have thought this might have appealed to you. It was meant to.

It's meant as a reminder of what we should be, seems like you're looking at it as describing what we are?
 
That's all meant in the best possible way and borne out of genuine interest, and I know we've had our differences but I only (I don't really) carry hatchets to bury in your head ;D

Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #228 on: December 30, 2012, 02:10:11 am »
I think at least 3 years, but FSG will have to back him with some serious cash if we're to get back into the top 4 in that time.
I say at the very least 5, if not way longer.

2 years.
Really, I mean come on, 2 fuckin years! What sort of stability or continuity does that offer to the club?

If we don't start pinning our badge on a manger and committing to the long haul, then we're fucked. What good is the same old upheaval every 2-3 years to anyone? If all it does is start the clock ticking on fans expectations on the next manager?

Rome 77 wasn't built in a day.
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Offline TSC

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #229 on: December 30, 2012, 02:12:02 am »
I think at least 3 years, but FSG will have to back him with some serious cash if we're to get back into the top 4 in that time.

3 years to get near the 'top 4'?  Really?  Rubbish.  With the players we have now we should be up near there at least already.  Got one of the best keepers.  By all accounts Agger & Skrtel  are two of the best central defensive partnerships in the league, we have England's best right back in Johnson and a decent attacking LB in Enriche. 

We have one of the best players in world football in midfield albeit being played out of position by the manager and arguably one of the best forwards up top in Suarez.

Why should it take 3 years or anywhere near this? 

It's a cop out. And designed to give the manager the benefit of the doubt, when in reality the team is well underachieving.

Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #230 on: December 30, 2012, 02:12:47 am »
I think at least 3 years, but FSG will have to back him with some serious cash if we're to get back into the top 4 in that time.

We need to spend wisely, money alone isn't the answer, as we've well learned.


We also need a scout team, on the top of their game, scouring the globe in it's entirety.

Offline Max_powers

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #231 on: December 30, 2012, 02:16:24 am »
3 years to get near the 'top 4'?  Really?  Rubbish.  With the players we have now we should be up near there at least already.  Got one of the best keepers.  By all accounts Agger & Skrtel  are two of the best central defensive partnerships in the league, we have England's best right back in Johnson and a decent attacking LB in Enriche. 

We have one of the best players in world football in midfield albeit being played out of position by the manager and arguably one of the best forwards up top in Suarez.

Why should it take 3 years or anywhere near this? 

It's a cop out. And designed to give the manager the benefit of the doubt, when in reality the team is well underachieving.

Riena has been far from one of the best in the world for quite some time. We have had no proper DM, We have had teenagers playing as wingers all season, gerrard performing poorly for last couple of season, Cole and Downing as frequent player. Thats 5-6 players every game who are well away from top 4 quality. 4 players can't carry a team into top 4.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 02:19:26 am by Max_powers »

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #232 on: December 30, 2012, 02:20:40 am »
I say at the very least 5, if not way longer.
Really, I mean come on, 2 fuckin years! What sort of stability or continuity does that offer to the club?

If we don't start pinning our badge on a manger and committing to the long haul, then we're fucked. What good is the same old upheaval every 2-3 years to anyone? If all it does is start the clock ticking on fans expectations on the next manager?

Rome 77 wasn't built in a day.
don't expect us to be winning the league in that time but if we are still hanging around 10th
with no visible signs of progress coupled with no track record I would be worried.

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #233 on: December 30, 2012, 02:24:50 am »
I agree but don't you think he has the ability to learn.
Hodgson was as good as he was going to get Rodgers is a young ambitious manager at the start of his career

exactly, he hired on the basis of his obvious potential, not his slim track record.
I'm less concerrned about his mistakes, than his ability (or otherwise) to learn from them.
if he's he's still making the same mistakes in the same kind of games, 2 years from now, I'd be getting worried.

I know people don't like the fact that we have a manager who is basically learning on the job, and it is a gamble of sorts.
but we're hoping to be competing with some very deep pockets in a couple of years from now, so I think it's a gamble worth taking.

it's either that, or we just look forward to 5th or 6th place league finishes (our natural position, given our financial clout) between now and the forseeable future, or however long it will be before City and Chelsea's owners get bored and sell up (while hoping that no other billionaires come in and buy a different club in the meantime).
I think the owners are a bit more ambitious than that, and they're trying to find a way whereby we can punch above our financial weight.

if it pays off, we could find ourselves in a great position in a couple of years time.
if it doesn't, we're back to square one and we start again.
despite all the scare mongering about us being the new Newcastle or Villa, we'll still be a sizeable club with a global fanbase and a good cash flow, and there's no reason to think that's going to change any time soon.

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #234 on: December 30, 2012, 02:25:26 am »
We need to spend wisely, money alone isn't the answer, as we've well learned.


We also need a scout team, on the top of their game, scouring the globe in it's entirety.
totally agree on both counts.

Offline keyo

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #235 on: December 30, 2012, 02:26:08 am »
supporting our manager, yes, same as supporting our players when they turn out is a given (unless you sit in certain parts of the kemlyn road ;))

the discussion i think is not really hittin the point though....as you are talking about our supporters, and deciding whether they are behind the club and the manager or not, and comparing to the likes of newcastle

firstly, the net is not to blame.....it makes us more vocal, but so what, society moves on, norms change and people want to be heard, people get used to the noise, successful professionals are the ones who do not respond to the noise and make correct decisions based on what they know, and that is what rodgers is meant to be

as for "pressure on the manager", again, he is the manager of a football club, his job is to get results, progress, show he is capable of winning....he will be judged on that, not whether fans on the net agree with his formation, or even fans at the ground grumble as another chance goes begging...no, he is paid alot of money to do a high pressured job with fixed goals (i would hope) that he needs to achieve progress towards to stay in the job....we do not know the goals, or the criteria set for progress along with the structures in place to help him achieve his goals, nor do we know the actual limitations place on him by budget or by the board in terms of how far his decision making powers go
however, we can see whether there is progress, and over time that will become apparent

as fo cmments about the fans, this club became disconnectewd from its fanbase a long time ago....moores and coco did nothing to nurture the goodwill that existed even after noel white's efforts to destroy the boardroom excellence of the club, other than to try t appeal to us as 'supporters"....but selling out to h&g broke what connection there was to the club for many......our boafrd should not define us, but the influence of both the previous and current owners cannot be overlooked and it has served to build frustration, disillusionment and dissatisfation in many fans, we are even more cynical now than we were, as we care less about the people at the club.....smith, robinson, et al were all ruthless when it came to business - players' contracts, buying and selling, transfer fees, ticket prices etc. - but they did what they were supposed to do without any nod to ego that was apparent publicly, something not true of any board since moores took over....and this makes it hard for all supporters to be truly supportive of the club, which filters down to the manager and the players

i do not see us getting back to the top of the tree, but that won't stop me supporting lfc and watching every game, but i no longer care about the people involved, they do not feel like one of our own, from the top down board and management, to (a lesser extent) the manager, coaches and players.....how do you get that feeling back at the club?  or do you move on to a more distant relationship, and applaud victories and accept defeats like a good sport?

maybe rodgers' greatest chamllenge is bridging the gap, maybe over time it will become more as it was?  if he managed that he would be a worthy manager regardless of trophies in my eyes
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 02:27:54 am by keyo »
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Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #236 on: December 30, 2012, 02:26:09 am »
totally agree on both counts.

Now, we pray  ;D

Offline rusty-la

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #237 on: December 30, 2012, 02:27:02 am »
3 years to get near the 'top 4'?  Really?  Rubbish.  With the players we have now we should be up near there at least already. 


I'm surprised to read that.  We've not been good since Souness. Other than the genius of Rafa returning the Glory years for a short while.

Outside of that, we are pretty average.  The current players are good but most of them young, this will take time.

Why do you think its rubbish that it may take three years?




Online kennedy81

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #238 on: December 30, 2012, 02:30:32 am »
I say at the very least 5, if not way longer.
Really, I mean come on, 2 fuckin years! What sort of stability or continuity does that offer to the club?

If we don't start pinning our badge on a manger and committing to the long haul, then we're fucked. What good is the same old upheaval every 2-3 years to anyone? If all it does is start the clock ticking on fans expectations on the next manager?

Rome 77 wasn't built in a day.

3 years to get near the 'top 4'?  Really?  Rubbish.  With the players we have now we should be up near there at least already.  Got one of the best keepers.  By all accounts Agger & Skrtel  are two of the best central defensive partnerships in the league, we have England's best right back in Johnson and a decent attacking LB in Enriche. 

We have one of the best players in world football in midfield albeit being played out of position by the manager and arguably one of the best forwards up top in Suarez.

Why should it take 3 years or anywhere near this? 

It's a cop out. And designed to give the manager the benefit of the doubt, when in reality the team is well underachieving.

ok, at least one of you is on a wind up, but it's late and I'm getting tired....

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #239 on: December 30, 2012, 02:37:45 am »
exactly, he hired on the basis of his obvious potential, not his slim track record.
I'm less concerrned about his mistakes, than his ability (or otherwise) to learn from them.
if he's he's still making the same mistakes in the same kind of games, 2 years from now, I'd be getting worried.

I know people don't like the fact that we have a manager who is basically learning on the job, and it is a gamble of sorts.
but we're hoping to be competing with some very deep pockets in a couple of years from now, so I think it's a gamble worth taking.

it's either that, or we just look forward to 5th or 6th place league finishes (our natural position, given our financial clout) between now and the forseeable future, or however long it will be before City and Chelsea's owners get bored and sell up (while hoping that no other billionaires come in and buy a different club in the meantime).
I think the owners are a bit more ambitious than that, and they're trying to find a way whereby we can punch above our financial weight.

if it pays off, we could find ourselves in a great position in a couple of years time.
if it doesn't, we're back to square one and we start again.
despite all the scare mongering about us being the new Newcastle or Villa, we'll still be a sizeable club with a global fanbase and a good cash flow, and there's no reason to think that's going to change any time soon.

spot on.