Topic: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager

[RGF30]

We should allow him that opportunity.

Why?  Blind faith?  Just hoping?  I just don't see anything that makes me believe he should be afforded the opportunity.

[tommy LFC]

and how did he do that mate, just out of interest?
did you believe in him the moment he stepped through the doors of the club?

Lets face it, if Rafa hadn't won the Champions League that years then things would be very different. But Brendan, through no fault of his own, doesn't have that get out of jail free card. Lets see how he does in the UEFA Cup and FA Cup and let him continue to experiment in the league. It's been too long since we had a manager start two consecutive seasons in charge (ca't believe what I just typed) and this time next year is when we'll get a sense of how Brendan is doing.

[tommy LFC]

Why?  Blind faith?  Just hoping?  I just don't see anything that makes me believe he should be afforded the opportunity.

And what if the next manager starts like this? Sack him too?

[RGF30]

Of course, everything is going swimmingly, why would anyone have concerns?


This is nothing other than an embarrassing attempt to try and paint anyone with concerns, as some sort of loon, that shouldn't be given the time of day. Plenty of people have expressed concerns, in a rational and civilized manner, some of which even have RAWK Scribe, as a title.

Totally agree, and well done for humiliating a pathetic attempt to brush garbage under the carpet.

[RGF30]

And what if the next manager starts like this? Sack him too?

Hire the right manager and stick with them, for whatever reason FSG believe that Rodgers is the right manager for the job so they now have to see it through.  I don't think he is the right manager, I will have to deal with it. 

I do find it really strange how quite FSG is at the moment.

[alanjwilliams]

Lets face it, if Rafa hadn't won the Champions League that years then things would be very different.

Amazing 6 minutes. If I was at home I'd have the DVD on. It's been a while.

[redbyrdz]

Is it that bad already that we need this thread?

To be honest, I'm a bit sceptical - I like Brendan, but at the moment I think his bark is better than his bite. He talks very well, and he's obviously got a footballing vision he wants to make reality. But I think he's been tactically poor at times, his team selections sometimes leave my shaking my head, and I'm not even sure if I really want us to play like Barca. Obviously our results aren't exactly proving him right either.

I think we have been spoilt though - we had Rafa, who is the best in the world, tactically. Then we had Kenny, who has seen and done it all. Brendan is not at their level, yet. He's barely older than me. He needs time to learn, to make mistakes, and to grow.

Above all, I don't want us to change the manager yet again. I believe that if you want to achieve great things, you'll need stability and time to build for it. If you want to climb a mountain, you'll have to keep walking. The exact path is not that important, but if you stop halfway up, turn round and start from the bottom again on a different path, you'll never get there.

[kennedy81]

Lets face it, if Rafa hadn't won the Champions League that years then things would be very different. But Brendan, through no fault of his own, doesn't have that get out of jail free card. Lets see how he does in the UEFA Cup and FA Cup and let him continue to experiment in the league. It's been too long since we had a manager start two consecutive seasons in charge (ca't believe what I just typed) and this time next year is when we'll get a sense of how Brendan is doing.

that's what I'm getting at.
do we only start supporting the manager after he's won a major trophy?

of course there'll be doubts about Rodgers, I have plenty myself, it's a totally reasonable position to take.
he's inexperienced, won nothing and we've not been having a great season.
but that's all obvious to everyone, and I don't feel the need to be on here after we loose a game to keep repeating those things.
some people do, and I don't see the point of that.

it's way to early to just expect Rodgers to be a success,
but surely if he's unproven and inexperienced, and without a major trophy to his name, then he needs our support even more than Rafa or Kenny did, because without it, he's doomed.

[kennedy81]

Totally agree, and well done for humiliating a pathetic attempt to brush garbage under the carpet.

that's nonsense mate.
no-one trying to brush anything under the carpet.
our league position says it all, and I've been watching the same games as you have.
I wouldn't say everything is hunky dory, but having hissy fits about our position gets us nowhere, and only makes his job harder.

[Anywhichwayicant]

that's what I'm getting at.
do we only start supporting the manager after he's won a major trophy?

of course there'll be doubts about Rodgers, I have plenty myself, it's a totally reasonable position to take.
he's inexperienced, won nothing and we've not been having a great season.
but that's all obvious to everyone, and I don't feel the need to be on here after we loose a game to keep repeating those things.
some people do, and I don't see the point of that.

it's way to early to just expect Rodgers to be a success,
but surely if he's unproven and inexperienced, and without a major trophy to his name, then he needs our support even more than Rafa or Kenny did, because without it, he's doomed.

We start supporting a manager, as soon as he has signed his signature. The belief thing may be there among some from the beginning, it may take others a while to get, it may never arrive for some people.


That's what I was trying to get at earlier, it's possible to support a manager, without believing he's going to deliver the world.

As bad as Hodgson was, he had my support until the end, although my belief had long gone, if it was ever there in the first place.

[Fairytale of 2005]

Chopping managers at the drop of a hat has played some part in getting us where we now are. However I have seen nothing so far to suggest BR will return the club to the top. He is a likeable guy and I hope he proves me wrong in time, but I am far from convinced in him.

[Anywhichwayicant]

that's nonsense mate.
no-one trying to brush anything under the carpet.
our league position says it all, and I've been watching the same games as you have.
I wouldn't say everything is hunky dory, but having hissy fits about our position gets us nowhere, and only makes his job harder.

Just to clarify, I was responding strictly to GKW, in that post, and none of it was aimed at the OP. I think one or two may have already misinterpreted that.

[rusty-la]

Why?  Blind faith?  Just hoping?  I just don't see anything that makes me believe he should be afforded the opportunity.

What's you better solution?

[RGF30]

that's what I'm getting at.
do we only start supporting the manager after he's won a major trophy?

The majority supported Rafa way before he won the Champions league (+-70 games before he won). If I remember correctly he has bashed for getting knocked out of the FA cup.

[tommy LFC]

Hire the right manager and stick with them, for whatever reason FSG believe that Rodgers is the right manager for the job so they now have to see it through.  I don't think he is the right manager, I will have to deal with it. 

I do find it really strange how quite FSG is at the moment.

Lets say the "right manager" had been appointed in the summer, where would we be now? I know there is too many variables such as signings, playing style etc but I'd be interested to hear what you have to say.

I'm going to guess you'll say challenging for the top 4. Well we are 11 points behind spurs with a game in hand. So if we were to be challenging them we should have 6 more points than we have now now. Saying he isn't the right man on the basis of 6 points doesn't make sense to me.

[RGF30]

Wonderful OP.

Although the people having a go at our manager wont have the attention span to read the whole OP.

that's nonsense mate.
no-one trying to brush anything under the carpet.
our league position says it all, and I've been watching the same games as you have.
I wouldn't say everything is hunky dory, but having hissy fits about our position gets us nowhere, and only makes his job harder.

of course he was, he basically labeled everyone that has a go at Rodgers as not having the attention span to listen to reason.

[Haresy77]

There are no dead certs in this game these days unless you've got bottomless pockets. It's this uncertainty that divides the fan base. One half panics and searches for the silver bullet - A manager with domestic and European trophies. The other half can see that there are no guarntees there and patience with a young manager who has proven he can manage and build a 'competitive' side with limited resources is a sensible option. We could say 'in Rafa we trust' because he had earnt that trust - very difficult with Rogers because what do you base it on? I'm prepared to give him a chance. He knows a good player when he sees it. He knows how the game should be played and I don't believe he's completely dogmatic when it comes to style.

Time will tell but time is a couple of seasons surely before all is revealed.

[RGF30]

Lets say the "right manager" had been appointed in the summer, where would we be now? I know there is too many variables such as signings, playing style etc but I'd be interested to hear what you have to say.

I'm going to guess you'll say challenging for the top 4. Well we are 11 points behind spurs with a game in hand. So if we were to be challenging them we should have 6 more points than we have now now. Saying he isn't the right man on the basis of 6 points doesn't make sense to me.

Seriously?  No one has a crystal ball, no one knows where we will end this year, most people (myself included) believed we would be better that we are right now.  I just don't have the blind faith that some of you seem to have, I have seen nothing in his signings, nothing in his history, nothing in his ability to play the right players, to drop the right player, no ability to get extra out of his squad.

[hedger]

I support the manager but if FSG dont support him with huge investment we will be a top 10 team for years

[tommy LFC]

Seriously?  No one has a crystal ball, no one knows where we will end this year, most people (myself included) believed we would be better that we are right now.  I just don't have the blind faith that some of you seem to have, I have seen nothing in his signings, nothing in his history, nothing in his ability to play the right players, to drop the right player, no ability to get extra out of his squad.

I admire the way he has managed both Downing and Enrique this season.

[-HH-]

I see a lot of I support Rodgers but... type of posts in here.

But NOTHING!

The constant chopping and changing of managers is our biggest problem and it needs to end with Rodgers. It is that simple. The only teams that have success without stability at the top are those with seemingly endless money to throw at their teams. We don't have that, and therefore our best chance of success will always be to give the man in charge an opportunity to shape his vision over time. That's before you even go into the history of our club, which only serves to strengthen not weaken this view.

And that includes people saying "I don't think Rodgers is the right man but I'd love to be proven wrong" - we know where that attitude will lead - it will lead to people not giving him enough time to actually prove them wrong and using every poor result along the way as ammunition for negativity about things. We may have bad times in the next couple of years. Suck it up and SUPPORT the manager, rather than these kind of backhanded "I support the manager but I don't really" posts.

Back him. Make sure it is in your head that he gets 2 years minimum, hold your fucking tongue and get behind him. The end.

[helmboy_nige]

A vocal section of fans turned on Rafa because of one poor season.  A vocal section of fans turned on Kenny because of a poor 4 months.  We used to laugh at such fickle attitudes.  We still do laugh at the way Chelsea chop and change.

FSG wanted a young up and coming manager.  This is why we got Brendan Rodgers.  He deserves out support not because of his history but because of the role he has taken on.  A manager... any Liverpool manager... deserves time.  Short of putting us in the relegation zone, he gets time to restructure and he gets time to get it right.  Despite the doom-mongers out there we can actually take our time.  The title isn't going anywhere.  The way some people carry on you'd think that any team that is not in the top 4 in the next year will never ever again challenge for the top honours.

Of course I want success.  I want it now.  I hate seeing other clubs conquering all before them.  But we simply have to take our time over this which I know is hard because we've been waiting long enough.  We just don't have a choice.  Rodgers may ultimately fail, but now is not the time to judge.

Thanks for the OP.  It was a great read.

[Mr_Shane]

I am still ambiguous about Rodgers, but I would like to think I am aware about the state our team is in. We have only one striker at more moment, and more importantly, we are are still inconsistent with almost the same team over the period of four managers. We did ok for the first half of last season, and then one major setback our team goes into freefall, this was for Dalglish, and Hodgson before him and in Rafa's last season. The first half of last season could have seen us somewhere about 4th to 7th, but what about the latter half of that season? That ability to be consistent and handle adversity both within a match and over the course of season just hasn't been there for the past 3 to 4 seasons. 

That is where the state of out team at the moment, I am not sure how to resolve this, or whether there is any manager out there there who even knows how to resolve this. But what I do know is that this can't be solved overnight, or even a period of a few games or maybe even the course of a season. I can see in the posts that there are always doubts over whether we can win the next game, against the likes of the so called midtable teams, relegation threatened teams and now they are even creeping in against the likes of Mansfield? This has been the case for quite some time now. Even before Rodgers was here, and if we do not resolve this the situation will be the same even if Rodgers leaves. It is less likely to be solved if there is no support for the team though. In fact, if the same things happen even after Rodgers leaves, what then? However, what I feel is that Rodgers will give it his best shot, and I can't ask for much more than that.

And Istanbul, logically that should never have happened. Not with a team that were 6 minutes from being eliminated from the competition at the group stage and didn't even manage to qualify for next seasons CL and had to rely on amendment of the rules just to get into next seasons competition. Certain things, just transcend logic and belief. Isn't that what have faith in the team is all about.?   

[Anywhichwayicant]

Back him. Make sure it is in your head that he gets 2 years minimum, hold your fucking tongue and get behind him. The end.

With respect, you're nobody's Bible.


You're going to change no minds, with such a ridiculous attitude and tone.

"Make sure it is in your head", "Hold your fucking tongue". Come on, you're better than that.

[rusty-la]

With respect, you're nobody's Bible.


You're going to change no minds, with such a ridiculous attitude and tone.

"Make sure it is in your head", "Hold your fucking tongue". Come on, you're better than that.

But its Heart felt.

I agree with the sentiment.

[-HH-]

With respect, you're nobody's Bible.


You're going to change no minds, with such a ridiculous attitude and tone.

"Make sure it is in your head", "Hold your fucking tongue". Come on, you're better than that.

Why should I be better than that? OK, how's about this - someone find a team that has sacked managers repeatedly without endless money and had success. If you can't then by definition not giving the manager time is actively harming the team you claim to support. Well in.

[rusty-la]

I admire the way he has managed both Downing and Enrique this season.

He's certainly improved the pair of them

[rusty-la]

.  I just don't have the blind faith that some of you seem to have

Blind faith?

Before we appointed Rogers, who did you want ?

[robblac1]

There are no dead certs in this game these days unless you've got bottomless pockets. It's this uncertainty that divides the fan base. One half panics and searches for the silver bullet - A manager with domestic and European trophies. The other half can see that there are no guarntees there and patience with a young manager who has proven he can manage and build a 'competitive' side with limited resources is a sensible option. We could say 'in Rafa we trust' because he had earnt that trust - very difficult with Rogers because what do you base it on? I'm prepared to give him a chance. He knows a good player when he sees it. He knows how the game should be played and I don't believe he's completely dogmatic when it comes to style.

Time will tell but time is a couple of seasons surely before all is revealed.

this

[hedger]

I see a lot of I support Rodgers but... type of posts in here.

But NOTHING!

Well my post had a "But" in it and it was logical. it doesnt matter a jot how much we support the manger and how much time he gets. If he doesnt get huge financial backing from FSG and a proper structure put in place we will not compete for the top trophies

[Zlen]

If you can't then by definition not giving the manager time is actively harming the team you claim to support. Well in.

This is true.
Any damage Rodgers might do with his rookie mistakes, stubborness or whatever is nothing compared to what we'll gain by the period of stability and steady progress. Otherwise it's just poking the wound with dirty hands, matter of time before it's infected.

[Always_A_Red]

and how did he do that mate, just out of interest?
did you believe in him the moment he stepped through the doors of the club?

The 4-2 win away to fulham in october when we were 2-0 down and down to 10 men, our 9 match winning  PL run in his first season (A record), his Carling cup run which took us to the final, Olympiakos, Juventus, Chelsea, ISTANBUL! Each step through that first season was improvement, there were signs that he wasthe man to really take us back to where we need to be. 

When he first took over I hadnt really been following the spanish league much. I knew he had won the title with Valencia but I couldnt honestly say that I knew or truely believed he would transform us into the side we become orachieve what he achieved.

Like I say, BR has a lot to prove to me to make me believe he is the one who can take us back to the top but I guarentee I will support him every step of the way in the 'hope' he does.

[NorthamptonKopite]

Hire the right manager and stick with them, for whatever reason FSG believe that Rodgers is the right manager for the job so they now have to see it through.  I don't think he is the right manager, I will have to deal with it. 

I do find it really strange how quite FSG is at the moment.

Why is it strange?

And who would you have appointed?

[Max_powers]

People seem to forget How much hiring and firing a manager actually costs the team?

If you fire a manager you have to pay him compensation and compensation to all his staff who go. This could cost any where between 8-10 million quid. Then you might have to pay some other club compensation if you take there manager away and for all the staff he brings in this again could cost upto 10 million or so. Then the new manager will come in and he might have different playing style and system and will probably get rid of all the previous manager's signings for half there actual value. So what does he do? He will have to spend his 40-million pound budget to replace the players bought in by previous regime rather than fix the problems with the squad. So in total it can cost a club anywhere between 40-60 million just to fire manager. We have done this for 3 years now rather than fixing obvious issues like Back-up for Lucas, new number 10, buying attackers we have spent money on sacking managers and replacing there signings. Most our first team is still the same as when Rafa was in charge.

Would you rather not use that money to fix the squad? Maybe its not always managers fault that team is not doing well? Maybe just maybe it might be that our squad is just too weak to be competing for top 4.

[aggerdid]

if after 4 months of having brendan in charge you're sat there thinking right this brendan fellas not right, just think how immature you are and how much you're dragging this club down much further than any poor performance away at stoke can. snoogy doogy isnt coming. we aren't going to win the world series or the superbowl or the indian premier league any time soon. long term is what we're aiming at here. this clubs been raped over the past 5 years and for the first time since all the shite that went on we have a long term plan and a long journey ahead. if anyone wants out 4 months in then whats the point in following us anymore. feel like i'm repeating myself everytime i come on here with these kids moaning

[rusty-la]

Why is it strange?

And who would you have appointed?

Check this thread.

RFG30 is full of 'what we are doing wrong'.  He's a little light on objective ideas or solutions.

[RGF30]

I admire the way he has managed both Downing and Enrique this season.

Agree with how he has handled Enrique, Suso and Sterling (has been overplayed, don't think Rodgers could have done it any other way).  I don't agree with how he has handled Downing, Cole, Gerrard, Allen, Carragher, Coates, and especially Carroll.  With Carroll and some of the players that have left, I admit  that I don't really know who is to blame, so I can't really put it all at Rodgers feet.  I think LFC is in serious trouble from top to bottom, and don't know what can be done.

[NorthamptonKopite]

A vocal section of fans turned on Rafa because of one poor season.  A vocal section of fans turned on Kenny because of a poor 4 months.  We used to laugh at such fickle attitudes.  We still do laugh at the way Chelsea chop and change.

FSG wanted a young up and coming manager.  This is why we got Brendan Rodgers.  He deserves out support not because of his history but because of the role he has taken on.  A manager... any Liverpool manager... deserves time.  Short of putting us in the relegation zone, he gets time to restructure and he gets time to get it right.  Despite the doom-mongers out there we can actually take our time.  The title isn't going anywhere.  The way some people carry on you'd think that any team that is not in the top 4 in the next year will never ever again challenge for the top honours.

Of course I want success.  I want it now.  I hate seeing other clubs conquering all before them.  But we simply have to take our time over this which I know is hard because we've been waiting long enough.  We just don't have a choice.  Rodgers may ultimately fail, but now is not the time to judge.

Thanks for the OP.  It was a great read.

Sums up my feelings on the matter.

[Always_A_Red]

Lets face it, if Rafa hadn't won the Champions League that years then things would be very different. But Brendan, through no fault of his own, doesn't have that get out of jail free card. Lets see how he does in the UEFA Cup and FA Cup and let him continue to experiment in the league. It's been too long since we had a manager start two consecutive seasons in charge (ca't believe what I just typed) and this time next year is when we'll get a sense of how Brendan is doing.

No chance. We achieved an unbelievable amount in that season even if we didnt win the CL. I've mentioned some of them in my previous post.We then went on to win a cup the following season, get to the CL final the next, and finsih 2nd the year after.

Brendan has an opportunity to take us on an amazing European run with the draw we've been given. It wont be easy but we have a favourable draw to make the QF...then maybe BR will have an opportunity to create one of those 'magical european nights'.

[andymanlfc]

Spot on. Personally I blame media outlets and social networks as the source for the fan base lack of support. It only takes one idiot on twitter to say "Rogers Out" before there are hundreds at it. Lets be honest we have been spoilt in the last couple of years (Benitez era) and all was going well untill those two idiots took charge. It takes time to rebuild after selling some of our best players so just be patient. This is nowhere near the team Rogers wants but you can't expect it to happen in one window because look what happens when you buy too many players - QPR won one game so far this season.

Please be patient and try to encourage the players by being the 12th man.