Topic: The Europa League conundrum

[The Fletcher Memorial]

I dont agree. We need to attract good players to get into the top 4 as well as keep the ones we got.

From watching the Europa league last year, there were some great players on show, which could really improve our team. Itll be hard enough to attract those kind of players with champions league teams ready to pounce and if we were out of Europe for a few years, it would be almost impossible.

Yes, but winning the league would trump all that! 

[Rojo O Muerto]

When we had less fixtures last season it didn't exactly go well for us in terms of the league. Nevermind the fixture pile up, we have another players on our books, time to give them a chance to shine.

Let's be honest we are hardly in a position to turn our noses up at anything. It's an exciting competition.

[edeyj]

The Champions League and Europa League are both bloated competitions. The sooner UEFA review these competitions and reduce them down to acceptable levels the better (but they won't).

Of course we want to win any competition we are in, that goes without saying. However, to have to play 19 games to achieve that aim seems over the top to me. That's a half a premiership campaign on top of our "bread and butter". Is it any wonder that managers treat it the way they do?

Yes, we all say "an opportunity to give the young lads a chance" until we get beaten by an "inferior" team and then Brendan will get hammered by the media and by a section of our own "support". It's already main stream news that Brendan has left a batch of "first teamers" at home and because of that he devalues the tournament. The man can't win.

Bring back a two-leg knockout competition for both European tournaments for me.

[gazzalfc]

Think people need to understand that this is our level right now.

We are not that team of 2005 - 2009 that had the divine right to call ourselves a consistent champions league team.

Right now we are that Liverpool team of the late 90's/ early 00's that scrapped into cup competitions and had that ability to surprise people on the day.

we have been spoiled by the Benitez era but those times are gone. we need to build to get those times back

[God's Left Peg]

Well I don't even think twice about this. It's a game back in Europe and I am proper excited... really hoping that the likes of Kelly, Coates and Sterling get some serious game time, too.

[Titi Camara]

For us, at this point in our journey, it’s an interference. It should be used to keep squad members happy, get players fit etc. and that goes for the league and F.A Cup. 

I’d happily not be in them at all for a few years if it meant we could throw our all into the league campaign and get back to where we belong.

Ay the risk of just repeating the OP, getting our key players into the habit of winning big matches can prove invaluable!

I would also argue that right now the more playing time we can have the better. We really need matches to let BR instill his ideas into the players so that they are eventually expressed on the pitch!

[scatman]

Yes, but winning the league would trump all that! 

it does

but then we'll probably get knocked out of the Champions league in the group stage, as your not wanting to play in Europe plan would have an effect our coefficient and we'd be dropped in a group with Juventus and Barcelona for company.

[Matt8Pie]

"We need to get back into Europe"
*gets back into Europe*
"Yes, we're back in Europe! I can't wait for the famous European nights!"
*1 defeat in the league*
"I would happily scrap every cup competition to focus solely on the league to get back into the top 4"

[Andy @ Allerton!]

For us, at this point in our journey, it’s an interference. It should be used to keep squad members happy, get players fit etc. and that goes for the league and F.A Cup. 

I’d happily not be in them at all for a few years if it meant we could throw our all into the league campaign and get back to where we belong.

Where we belong is challenging for and winning silverware.

[Gnurglan]

I want us to take it seriously. If we play a few kids, fair enough. But I don't want us to play the Reserves, get knocked out and then we say "it didn't matter". It matters a great deal. Not as much as the league, but it doesn't have to be either or. We can compete in both. Reach the later stages of the competition and we'll see how meaningless it is. I also believe we're better equipped than about 95% of the clubs playing in the Europa League, so us having a few extra games to play isn't an acceptable excuse. We are the ones who should be able to cope.

We should use the Europa League to get back to winning ways. The more games, the better quality we possess.

[-Willo-]

We will take this seriously, even if we play a few kids tonight vs Hearts those kids should easily be good enough to brush aside Hearts, what'd be the point in playing a really strong team tonight when A) We have the Champions in a few days at home, and B) Hearts are not very good and can be beaten without a strong 11.

[Guz-kop]

We need to take it seriously. That means whoever plays. Just because Suarez and Gerrard have their feet up doesn't mean the players on the pitch can think it doesn't matter if they don't give 100%. Essentially it's about creating an atmosphere where the whole squad is hungry for success and that's Rodgers' biggest challenge here.

Generally though, you can talk about thing squads, uefa coefficients, not being as good as the CL etc. etc. whatever. But when we're there in the final in May (and this goes for ANY final) and pissed off our faces seeing our team parade the trophy around the pitch it's FUCKING BOSS. It's what we live for, it's the days we want.

[The Fletcher Memorial]

Where we belong is challenging for and winning silverware.

This is true, of course. But I crave the taste of bread and butter above croissants.

[exiledintheUSA]

I suggest we just to out and win the thing and then discuss its value after the fact next summer.

[No Appreciation of Liverpool Opposition]

The issue is with the champions league not Europa for me. If the champions league had champions of all the cups in it then football would be good again. It'd mean the league was only worth winning or getting second and the fa cup and league cup were big deals. At the very. Least the fa cup should carry a champions league spot, and the Europa league should too.

[Eeyore]

I suggest we just to out and win the thing and then discuss its value after the fact next summer.

What happens if we go out and win the thing but Lucas or another key player gets injured during the competition and the League form suffers. We were right in the fight for the top 4 last season until Lucas got injured in a meaningless Carling Cup tie against Chelsea, that was then compounded by Agger being injured in the meaningless final against Cardiff.

If the manager is only going to be judged on the League form why risk players in meaningless Cup games, after all you can win two Cups and still get sacked in FSG's money orientated world.

[exiledintheUSA]

What happens if we go out and win the thing but Lucas or another key player gets injured during the competition and the League form suffers. We were right in the fight for the top 4 last season until Lucas got injured in a meaningless Carling Cup tie against Chelsea, that was then compounded by Agger being injured in the meaningless final against Cardiff.

If the manager is only going to be judged on the League form why risk players in meaningless Cup games, after all you can win two Cups and still get sacked in FSG's money orientated world.

Risks. Risks. Risks. And the mitigation thereof.

What happens if we go out and try to not win the thing but Lucas or another key player gets injured during a league game and all our form suffers.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

What happens if we go out and win the thing but Lucas or another key player gets injured during the competition and the League form suffers. We were right in the fight for the top 4 last season until Lucas got injured in a meaningless Carling Cup tie against Chelsea, that was then compounded by Agger being injured in the meaningless final against Cardiff.

If the manager is only going to be judged on the League form why risk players in meaningless Cup games, after all you can win two Cups and still get sacked in FSG's money orientated world.

If winning cups is meaningless then LFC should disband and we should all go off and collect stamps, annoy fish and gaze at the funny shapes in the sky.

[my usenme changed?]

If winning cups is meaningless then LFC should disband and we should all go off and collect stamps, annoy fish and gaze at the funny shapes in the sky.

Exactly.

[Swansea Red]

If winning cups is meaningless then LFC should disband and we should all go off and collect stamps, annoy fish and gaze at the funny shapes in the sky.

Look at the big picture for once.

If we're a big club we need to playing in the European Cup.  NOT the Europa League.

[my usenme changed?]

Look at the big picture for once.

If we're a big club we need to playing in the European Cup.  NOT the Europa League.

So you want to be like Arsenal then? i agree with you, Champions league is where we belong, but i want to win trophies. I want nights Wembley, Cardiff, Istanbul et all, as well as typical wednesday/thursday european group games nights!

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Look at the big picture for once.

If we're a big club we need to playing in the European Cup.  NOT the Europa League.

It is not possible to express how much I disagree with the pure arrogance of that post, so I won't even try.

[AK47]

Like the League cup and to some extend FA cup, I'd be quite happy with fringe squad players and kids getting a chance in these games.  The kids will gain valuable experience, squad players get chance to gain fitness/confidence, coaching staff get chance to review squad/kids in competetive games that don't affect our league campaign. Win/Win/Win

[didi shamone]

The two best teams in England took it seriously. That says it all. When decorated manager like Ferguson and Mancini take it seriously, and shite like O'neil, Redknapp, Megson etc don't, it's just laughable. Only shite managers in England don't respect the Europa League. Every other country takes it seriously.

The difference is Ferguson and Mancini are winners. The rest didn't believe they were good enough so they jibbed it. Despite the balls up of a format I'd love to win this. I'd definately rate it a bigger achievement than the two domestic cups, and getting to both of them was fantastic last year.
The key has to be rotating and not wearing out your players.

[LFC when it suits]

Think people need to understand that this is our level right now.

We are not that team of 2005 - 2009 that had the divine right to call ourselves a consistent champions league team.

Right now we are that Liverpool team of the late 90's/ early 00's that scrapped into cup competitions and had that ability to surprise people on the day.

we have been spoiled by the Benitez era but those times are gone. we need to build to get those times back

People need to remember that it wasn't just teh Benitez Era, it was also the Houllier Era which was so important. Look back at the Houllier Era, and 2001 was the turning point. That was when we won the UEFA Cup and then went onto the CL and made the CL in 2 of the following 3 seasons.

It was the groundwork laid by Houllier that allowed Rafa to push on and win us the Champions League. Rafa inheritted a Champions league club remmeber. A big part of the success of Houllier was 2001 and the success in Europe. We beat great clubs like Barcelona and Roma over two legs and got very important European experience. It was all important for building the foundation of the Benitez era. Benitez took it to the next level.

Rodgers needs to be our Houllier. He needs to gets us winning trophies like the FA Cup and Europa League and once we get into the habit of that, the big trophies will come in due course.

[Swansea Red]

So you want to be like Arsenal then? i agree with you, Champions league is where we belong, but i want to win trophies. I want nights Wembley, Cardiff, Istanbul et all, as well as typical wednesday/thursday european group games nights!

No I don't want to be like Arsenal, where did I state that?!

WE NEED TO BE PLAYING CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FOOTBALL to even consider ourselves as an elite club now.  Liverpool Football Club are one of the biggest clubs in world football, as we all know too well.

But year by year, season by season our reputation and pedigree is being tarnished by not being in Europe's elite competition.  Think of the all the kids playing footy on the streets in cities all over the world - we want them to be buying Liverpool shirts, we want our name everywhere.  But now we're seeing clubs like Man City and Chelsea grow whilst we lag behind.

I want to get back into the European Cup, I want us to be attracting the top players again and I want nights like Istanbul again.  Yes I might be coming across as a spoilt child but we are LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB and our name goes hand-in-hand with top European football, not the Europa League.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

No I don't want to be like Arsenal, where did I state that?!

WE NEED TO BE PLAYING CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FOOTBALL to even consider ourselves as an elite club now.  Liverpool Football Club are one of the biggest clubs in world football, as we all know too well.

But year by year, season by season our reputation and pedigree is being tarnished by not being in Europe's elite competition.  Think of the all the kids playing footy on the streets in cities all over the world - we want them to be buying Liverpool shirts, we want our name everywhere.  But now we're seeing clubs like Man City and Chelsea grow whilst we lag behind.

I want to get back into the European Cup, I want us to be attracting the top players again and I want nights like Istanbul again.  Yes I might be coming across as a spoilt child but we are LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB and our name goes hand-in-hand with top European football, not the Europa League.

[scared_person]

Look at the big picture for once.

If we're a big club we need to playing in the European Cup.  NOT the Europa League.

Nope, ultimately we all want to be winning European Cups again of course, but I'd be fucking delighted if we could win the UEFA cup.

I'd definitely take 5th place and a UEFA cup win over 4th place and no cup. I'm a supporter of football and not business, I want to see my club win trophies.

Anyway its all a load of bollocks. If we play well in Europe it will give us confidence to do well in the league. Of course we'll play some younger players in the easier games. Just because it's 19 potential games doesn't mean Stevie, Danny A, Skrtel, Lucas and Suarez will have to play them all.

For supporters like us football should be about glory, not about money.

[Eeyore]

People need to remember that it wasn't just teh Benitez Era, it was also the Houllier Era which was so important. Look back at the Houllier Era, and 2001 was the turning point. That was when we won the UEFA Cup and then went onto the CL and made the CL in 2 of the following 3 seasons.

It was the groundwork laid by Houllier that allowed Rafa to push on and win us the Champions League. Rafa inheritted a Champions league club remmeber. A big part of the success of Houllier was 2001 and the success in Europe. We beat great clubs like Barcelona and Roma over two legs and got very important European experience. It was all important for building the foundation of the Benitez era. Benitez took it to the next level.

Rodgers needs to be our Houllier. He needs to gets us winning trophies like the FA Cup and Europa League and once we get into the habit of that, the big trophies will come in due course.

Wasn't Kenny the Houllier though winning us the Carling Cup and being a Cech wondersave away from extra time in the FA Cup final. Didn't Kenny get us into the habit of winning cup games against the likes of United, City, Chelsea et al. Unlike Houllier though winning Cups didn't buy him another three seasons at the helm. So why given FSG's view that it is only the League position that matters should Rodgers risk injuries and burn out by taking the Cups seriously.

 

[LFC when it suits]

Look at the big picture for once.

If we're a big club we need to playing in the European Cup.  NOT the Europa League.

We will always be a big club. Only Real Madrid and AC Milan can claim to be bigger. Right about now, it's about patience and progress. Winning the Europa League is big progress. Winning the League cup was good last season, but that was the least prestigous of the 5 trophies we can enter. Only the Premier league and the European Cup are better trophies than the Europa League.

Win the Europa League, and we can then aim for the Champions League and Premier League. Winning trophies makes you winners and should push you on to winning even more.

[Swansea Red]

Constructive response there 

What is your opinion then?  As a supporter, are you happy for Liverpool to be hovering around 8th in the league and playing in Europe's second best competition for the rest of our days whilst the likes of Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea leave us behind?

I keep reading about 'patience' and 'the project' but we need to be going for the top 4 NOW, not in 2 or 3 years.  We've been 'patient' for as long as I can remember and I don't know about you but I'm sick and tired of watching the Manchester clubs and those plastics from South West London attracting the best players and winning the big prizes.

What are we?  Just making up the numbers now?

 

[LFC when it suits]

Wasn't Kenny the Houllier though winning us the Carling Cup and being a Cech wondersave away from extra time in the FA Cup final. Didn't Kenny get us into the habit of winning cup games against the likes of United, City, Chelsea et al. Unlike Houllier though winning Cups didn't buy him another three seasons at the helm. So why given FSG's view that it is only the League position that matters should Rodgers risk injuries and burn out by taking the Cups seriously.

 

The League Cup is a good trophy, but Houllier won the league Cup, FA Cup and the UEFA Cup in one season and he got us into the Champions League for the first time since the 80s. Then he won us the Super Cup by beating the Champions of Europe.

Kenny did do great getting us into the FA Cup final as well, but after winnign the League cup, Kenny should have had it easy in terms of inspiring the team to perform, but instead, after the Arsenal loss (one week after the League Cup win), everyone went on holiday. We finished a massive 17 points away from 4th after winning a trophy. Also, you can argue that the Kenny firing had something to do with the transfers.


Don't want to trun this into a Kenny thread, but getting us to two finals last season was a great achievement no doubt, and hopefully, that is something we can build upon this season, by moving onto the next most prestigous trophy, the UEFA Cup and also doing well int he league at the same time.

For Rodgers, it's about gettign closer to fourth and winning some trophies as well.

[scared_person]

Constructive response there 

What is your opinion then?  As a supporter, are you happy for Liverpool to be hovering around 8th in the league and playing in Europe's second best competition for the rest of our days whilst the likes of Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea leave us behind?

I keep reading about 'patience' and 'the project' but we need to be going for the top 4 NOW, not in 2 or 3 years.  We've been 'patient' for as long as I can remember and I don't know about you but I'm sick and tired of watching the Manchester clubs and those plastics from South West London attracting the best players and winning the big prizes.

What are we?  Just making up the numbers now?

 

Do you really think sacking off the UEFA cup will help us do that? Will it bollocks.

A good UEFA cup run will put us back on the radar, and if we do get back in the CL it'll keep our ranking up, meaning we might get a kinder draw.

I hate clubs that sack competitions off, its small time bollocks and I really doubt it helps at all.

The best way to improve the situation at the club is to win football matches, whatever competion they happen to be in.

[Swansea Red]

Giving the kids a run out in competitive games is not 'small time bollocks' in any way.  Watching Sterling and company grow will do me thank you.

Risking injuries to Suarez, Lucas and Gerrard when we could be going for 4th spot in the league is a bit silly if you ask me.

Would I like to see the lads lift the Europa League come end of the season?  Of course I would.  But if someone offered me CL football next season or the Europa League win, I'd take the CL footy I'm afraid.

(If we can have both, I'll be like a kid in a sweet shop)

[my usenme changed?]

No I don't want to be like Arsenal, where did I state that?!

WE NEED TO BE PLAYING CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FOOTBALL to even consider ourselves as an elite club now.  Liverpool Football Club are one of the biggest clubs in world football, as we all know too well.

But year by year, season by season our reputation and pedigree is being tarnished by not being in Europe's elite competition.  Think of the all the kids playing footy on the streets in cities all over the world - we want them to be buying Liverpool shirts, we want our name everywhere.  But now we're seeing clubs like Man City and Chelsea grow whilst we lag behind.

I want to get back into the European Cup, I want us to be attracting the top players again and I want nights like Istanbul again.  Yes I might be coming across as a spoilt child but we are LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB and our name goes hand-in-hand with top European football, not the Europa League.

Jesus H. Christ son, calm down. All I'm saying is I want to win trophies. we have to earn our place in the champions league. No one deserves it on "reputation" alone.

[scared_person]

Would I like to see the lads lift the Europa League come end of the season?  Of course I would.  But if someone offered me CL football next season or the Europa League win, I'd take the CL footy I'm afraid.

I'd take an awesome trip to Amsterdam to see the mighty reds win a european trophy, but I suppose the balance sheet is more important to some. Baffling.

[Swansea Red]

I'd take an awesome trip to Amsterdam to see the mighty reds win a european trophy, but I suppose the balance sheet is more important to some. Baffling.

Yep who would want to be in the biggest competition in world football every season with the likes of Real Madrid and AC Milan coming to Anfield again, attracting the best players in the world every summer and watching us in finals which are watched by billions of people worldwide?

Baffling.

[GBF]

So why given FSG's view that it is only the League position that matters should Rodgers risk injuries and burn out by taking the Cups seriously.

I can understand FSG's use of the league position as a benchmark for how you performed over a season.  Cup competitions like league cup/FA cups are like knockouts and anything can happen hence consistent performance isn't that important.  However winning Europa generates some decent money compare to the League/FA cups and FSG wouldnt, probably, be too unhappy if we win the cup and stay the same position in the league as last year

[Alf]

Let's earn the right to turn our noses up at the Europa League. It's not like we have the luxury of picking and choosing what trophy we win.

[Swansea Red]

Let's earn the right to turn our noses up at the Europa League. It's not like we have the luxury of picking and choosing what trophy we win.

I don't think we should turn our noses up at the EL, not in any way.  But I would rest key players that will be important to our league campaign, that's the only point I was trying to make.