Author Topic: Injury (and absence) related chat (so the news is kept in the other thread)  (Read 216537 times)

Offline El Lobo

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It’s weird going into a season hoping for luck when there are surely players that improve our first team.

We could arguably need 3 midfielders next year.

But that was the case with CBs in summer 2017, and we waited. And it was the case with CBs (permanent) in January 2020, and we waited. And ended up with two absolute monster CBs. I think at this stage its probably right that it is a bit of a risk....but that the manager and recruitment team have more than earned our trust that they know what they're doing FAR more than we do. We've got an absolutely unprecedented transfer record under Klopp I suspect largely because we are so specific with which players we sign.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Zlen

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He didn't say that though did he?

We don't do tiny improvements just for the sake of having an extra body. I mean I'm sure we could drop £40 million on Tielemans, or £60 million on Ndidi, £50 million on Fornals, to improve the squad but it doesn't particularly make sense does it? I'm sure we could get Milenkovic-Savic if we offer Lazio £60 million and offer him £200k a week....but seemingly we don't see him as the next major signing in midfield so wouldn't do that, as it likely means we then don't get the player we do.

No, he didn't say that. That's what it boiled down to. We looked at the transfer market and there is nothing there that makes sense (conditions of making sense unclear and vague, have been so since Gini left). This whole situation at the moment is unfolding almost beat for beat like that time few years ago when we chose to gamble we have sufficient cover in CB, though early warnings were clear to see. Outcome may yet be different, but we definitely are gambling again, that much is clear to me.

Who said it needs to be a tiny improvement? There is a pretty major gap in midfield quality after Thiago, Fabinho, Henderson trio. One very good player could relieve those three and dramatically improve our options for the season ahead. But we'll apparently wait another year, fingers crossed we don't suffer too badly.

Klopp will do Klopp, you can't change his mind on these matters and he probably has higher expectations and stronger belief in Keita, Jones and Chamberlain than most of us. All we can do is hope they repay his trust when available. But availability and form, together with development of young players will shape our season from midfield. It could be enough, but my God it could backfire in our face badly.

Offline stjohns

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Unlike city or Chelsea, we can’t chance our arm on a player and then dump and replace them if they fail.

Offline Zlen

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Unlike city or Chelsea, we can’t chance our arm on a player and then dump and replace them if they fail.

Why would they fail?
Not like we'd be drawing random names from a hat.
We probably have a bunch of scouted players.

Our aim is to go for first choice players, problem being we can't get any this summer, which could in turn influence this season if we aren't lucky with injuries.

Offline killer-heels

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Still no update on the time frame that Konate is out for?

Offline newterp

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Still no update on the time frame that Konate is out for?
Or Jota or Tsmikas or Jones

(yes there were earlier updates)

Offline SamLad

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It’s weird going into a season hoping for luck when there are surely players that improve our first team.

We could arguably need 3 midfielders next year.

we often remark on how long it takes for any player to bed into the specfic role Klopp and the coaches want them to play (regardless of their skills and strengths).

so why buy someone who - potentially - might not even get on the pitch at all before Thiago is back?

Offline El Lobo

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Fabinho didn’t play until October when he signed
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline slaphead

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So there isn't a single obtainable midfield player in all of Europe/World that we could get for a reasonable price and who would fit into the team and actualy help us? This is the conclusion of world's best scouting minds? Yeah, not buying that to be honest. Whatever their reason, it's not because there are no players available.

There may well be, but Klopp has a very specific character he likes to bring in, all things have to fit for him to pull the trigger or he won't do it. I completely agree with him and that's why all of his signings are successful.  I think it was Linders who went into detail about it in tehe past. There is good available players available yes, do they meet his stringent checklist of what they must have to fit into out squad not just a player but as a person ? If he says no, then no. I don't think he would feed us a pack of lies, he's way beyond that. I'm struggling to think of a team ever who have as good of a record as us lately in the transfer market because of the patience we show

Offline DelTrotter

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we often remark on how long it takes for any player to bed into the specfic role Klopp and the coaches want them to play (regardless of their skills and strengths).

so why buy someone who - potentially - might not even get on the pitch at all before Thiago is back?

But is hopefully ready to play when Thiago is injured again in October or whenever. Most fit right in anyway even if they don't perfectly understand the way the team works straight away.

Offline Fromola

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we often remark on how long it takes for any player to bed into the specfic role Klopp and the coaches want them to play (regardless of their skills and strengths).

so why buy someone who - potentially - might not even get on the pitch at all before Thiago is back?

This Thiago injury isn't the primary reason we need a midfielder. We all knew he'd get injured and he most likely will again at some point this season when he returns. You just make the most of him when he is available but at the same time have to manage the minutes of him, Henderson and Fabinho when they are fit which is also why someone else is needed.

Thiago after one training session with us made his debut and bossed it (similar to Virg and Diaz among others) so the idea players need months before they're ready to play for us is not necessarily true, although we'd have ideally signed a midfielder months ago anyway, Thiago's injury doesn't come into it.

I can understand why short of signing someone who can immediately improve the team like Thiago did (as opposed to just the squad) we want to stick with what we've got and that's more subjective as to whether someone like Nunes would immediately improve the first XI . The problem is, it's not very well blended midfield as a squad and the Fabinho/Thiago/Henderson midfield it's time to evolve from more anyway - as a collective 3 - given the ages involved and creaking legs. Added to the fact at least one of the three will be injured for parts of the season anyway and some of the back ups are even less durable or are 36 years old and need their own minutes managed.

If we're going to get a spate of shortish term injuries it's better now when it's one game a week at least. We'd be in more trouble at the moment if it was Saturday-Tuesday every week which it soon will be.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 03:01:53 pm by Fromola »
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline Caston

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Joel Matip has a groin injury and sat out training today ahead of the game against Crystal Palace. [@TeleFootball]

Offline newterp

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Joel Matip has a groin injury and sat out training today ahead of the game against Crystal Palace. [@TeleFootball]

of course.

Offline slaphead

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Is Konate fit for the Palace game

Offline Phineus

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Is Konate fit for the Palace game

No, out for a few weeks (although how many weeks don’t think it’s been specified exactly how many weeks).

Offline DelTrotter

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Annoying but this is exactly why it was worth Gomez staying even though he seemed firmly 4th choice last season, great opportunity for him. And still think him and Virg was the peak of CB partnerships I've seen, wasn't it something daft like 5 goals conceded in 24 games at one point?

Online red1977

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Injuries are never good, but silver lining is we get a look at Joe next to Virgil again.

Edit: I agree with the above, to a point, because I do love me some Joel Matip.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 04:02:45 pm by red1977 »

Offline RobbieRedman

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Going to be Hendo at CB soon enough  :(

Offline redwillow

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Kelleher, Tsimikas Konate Matip Ramsey, Thiago Keita Jones Ox, Jota

christ, thats nearly a top top starting XI worth of players out injured

Online ScouserAtHeart

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other than Thiago, and arguably Matip, that's basically the entire bench
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Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Fcuking typical isn't it.  :no

Offline Fromola

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Joel Matip has a groin injury and sat out training today ahead of the game against Crystal Palace. [@TeleFootball]

Be back to Phillips again by the time United comes around. Hopefully Joe and Virg can have a good run.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline El Lobo

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Kelleher, Tsimikas Konate Matip Ramsey, Thiago Keita Jones Ox, Jota

christ, thats nearly a top top starting XI worth of players out injured

Yeah pretty frustrating, but it sounds like Tsimikas and Keita are back, Kelleher shouldnt be too far, Matip sounds precautionary more than anything, Jones and Jota hopefully weeks rather than months, Konate probably the same and Ramsay was unlikely to be getting much game time if any considering he missed pre-season.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Fromola

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Kelleher, Tsimikas Konate Matip Ramsey, Thiago Keita Jones Ox, Jota

christ, thats nearly a top top starting XI worth of players out injured

And City with their customary one short term injury.

Why are we being hammered with muscle injuries though?
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Online ScouserAtHeart

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Did we change our medical team or something a couple years ago
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Offline slaphead

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I'll be honest I totally forgot about Gomez. What a 4th choice defender to have by the way. We do have a fantastic squad

Offline xbugawugax

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fuck.. have we run out of inhalers.

players dropping like flies. do other clubs have it as bad as us? honestly the amount of muscle injuries is worrying. and we aren't counting injuries during matches yet.

sepp is still with us isn't he. maybe he could be the back up for our defensive back up. kind of a forgotten man of the squad.

Offline disgraced cake

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If Matip drops with Konate already out then it's best it's happened early. We're close still to the end of pre-season where Gomez has played some minutes so he should be in good shape to come in, rather than having to start in the middle of September with only a few minutes here and there.

Virgil and Gomez is a world class partnership, we just need them to stay fit.
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Offline classycarra

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If Matip drops with Konate already out then it's best it's happened early. We're close still to the end of pre-season where Gomez has played some minutes so he should be in good shape to come in, rather than having to start in the middle of September with only a few minutes here and there.

Definitely right there. Also concentration issues mostly disappear when he's not fatigued. It's a great chance for him to show he's developed.

Looking at things in simple terms, as obviously we don't have all information, this pre-season has been pretty horrible from the perspective of preparing the squad to fire on all cylinders

Online Ghost Town

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Never believe a word Klopp says; lying fucker. bet he's not even German the mendacious meff
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Online Ghost Town

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Klopp on signing new midfielder: “It has to be the right player, not just a player. If we had the right solution then we would have done it already. We are not stubborn”. 🔴 #LFC

“We have had a lot of conversations already and it doesn't look like anything will happen”.
From the horse's mouth. Will people finally accept it? Or keep pretending that he's lying and being oppressed by horrible moneymen?

I'd like a new midfielder as much as anyone, but Klopp is very clear here about the situation. We want Klopp as manager? This is what comes with it. High standards and specific players, not fan service.
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Offline xbugawugax

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If Matip drops with Konate already out then it's best it's happened early. We're close still to the end of pre-season where Gomez has played some minutes so he should be in good shape to come in, rather than having to start in the middle of September with only a few minutes here and there.

Virgil and Gomez is a world class partnership, we just need them to stay fit.

amazing spin on players getting injured.  ;D

matip injury record is sketchy and last season was one of his best in terms of minutes i guess. Gomez didn't have any chance for a run in the side last season due to Konate's form but we all know what he is capable of pre injury. Post injury Gomez is still bit of a mystery robust wise. We are kind of lucky to have 4 capable centre backs to be honest. that is if no other players suffer any more injuries.

Half of our midfield and defence is pretty much crocked and we have only gone thru one game of a long season. Lets just hope for some positive news the next time this thread is bumped up. Sighh

Offline classycarra

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From the horse's mouth. Will people finally accept it? Or keep pretending that he's lying and being oppressed by horrible moneymen?

I'd like a new midfielder as much as anyone, but Klopp is very clear here about the situation. We want Klopp as manager? This is what comes with it. High standards and specific players, not fan service.
Maybe not as conclusive as you think (obviously I'm not defending the mad hyperbolic straw man about oppression stuff, just that it's more complex than you make out)

Quote
Thought this was interesting from Lijnders on Diaz:

Quote
“We never had any doubts. The only thing was that we really wanted him in January. I really felt that it was make-or-break. At one point it looked like we would have to wait until the summer, but then it changed, and we were very happy about that."

Quoting this message, but its locked - https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=349030.msg18450163#msg18450163

Evidently it's more complicated than 'Klopp is the reason we sometimes opt to wait it out and don't sign players'

Offline thaddeus

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fuck.. have we run out of inhalers.

players dropping like flies. do other clubs have it as bad as us? honestly the amount of muscle injuries is worrying. and we aren't counting injuries during matches yet.

sepp is still with us isn't he. maybe he could be the back up for our defensive back up. kind of a forgotten man of the squad.
We're the worst off right now with eight players out (https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php - it's slightly out-of-date but you can swap Naby for Matip).  Everton are next with six out.

If you use that website then take the headline numbers with a pinch of salt as they include players that were injured for the previous game but now appear to be available (they classify them as 100%, Naby being a good example)

We had a uniquely short off and pre-season due to playing in the CL final and the Community Shield.  Whether a couple of weeks would have made much difference I don't know but it can only have helped.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 05:11:41 pm by thaddeus »

Offline disgraced cake

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amazing spin on players getting injured.  ;D

matip injury record is sketchy and last season was one of his best in terms of minutes i guess. Gomez didn't have any chance for a run in the side last season due to Konate's form but we all know what he is capable of pre injury. Post injury Gomez is still bit of a mystery robust wise. We are kind of lucky to have 4 capable centre backs to be honest. that is if no other players suffer any more injuries.

Half of our midfield and defence is pretty much crocked and we have only gone thru one game of a long season. Lets just hope for some positive news the next time this thread is bumped up. Sighh

That's just the way it feels right now  ;D

We're all aware of Matip and Gomez's injury records, they aren't pretty and feel inevitable sooner rather than later. If you told me this time last summer Matip would have played a 40 odd game season without injury I'd have been shocked.

If Gomez is about to get a run in the team he'll know what he has to do to stay in it. It's happened before with him and Matip. Joe was playing some of his finest stuff until that injury at Burnley a few years back, then Matip carried on his absence and had his best year in 2019, he himself went down around the start of winter time, then Gomez came back in as we strode towards the title, there was one run where we conceded 1 goal in about 10 league games, Jiminez at Wolves being the only man to score against us if I remember correctly.

People will debate who Van Dijk's best partner is out of Matip and Gomez (you could even argue Konate now) but for me it's been impossible to tell, they've both been outstanding and of course are great performers without Van Dijk. I'm really excited to see Gomez back in the team but it always comes with that trepidation that he's going to pick something up, in which case we'll hope to have Matip and Konate fit by the time he does. I'm sure Gomez will have his eyes on a World Cup spot too, not that I would personally wish to be involved in the England set up if I was him.
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Offline Fromola

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We're the worst off right now with eight players out (https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php - it's slightly out-of-date but you can swap Naby for Matip).  Everton are next with six out.

If you use that website then take the headline numbers with a pinch of salt as they include players that were injured for the previous game but now appear to be available (they classify them as 100%, Naby being a good example)

We had a uniquely short off and pre-season due to playing in the CL final and the Community Shield.  Whether a couple of weeks would have made much difference I don't know but it can only have helped.

Community Shield is effectively the final pre-season friendly. If we weren't playing that we'd have played someone else that day anyway.
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Offline thaddeus

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Community Shield is effectively the final pre-season friendly. If we weren't playing that we'd have played someone else that day anyway.
I agree that the Community Shield is really a friendly and it's not a trophy I'd ever count in our overall haul.  That said, it was played as a very competitive game with both sides sending out their strongest teams and using substitutes as if it was a league game.  I don't tend to follow pre-season all that closely so maybe we'd have approached the final friendly in the same way.

Offline Fromola

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I agree that the Community Shield is really a friendly and it's not a trophy I'd ever count in our overall haul.  That said, it was played as a very competitive game with both sides sending out their strongest teams and using substitutes as if it was a league game.  I don't tend to follow pre-season all that closely so maybe we'd have approached the final friendly in the same way.

We were competitive in the game but we do tend to build up to a big performance in the last friendly with players given more minutes. Only Jones got injured against City and that was a very innocuous one as a late sub. It should have worked in a favour for Fulham the fact we had a somewhat competitive game there. It probably helped City out as opposed to an undercooked West Ham.

Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline SamLad

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players dropping like flies. do other clubs have it as bad as us?
of course they don't ... we have 8 out, next highest is 6 (3 clubs - Ev, Newcy and Leeds)

https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php

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And City with their customary one short term injury.

Why are we being hammered with muscle injuries though?

Probably because we played every game possible last season with a short pre season due to the farce in Qatar.

Klopp has been saying all this for years players need protecting from burn out he might be onto something but our media rather listen to no marks like Wilder.