Author Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD  (Read 2676608 times)

Offline elsewhere

  • Turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think I mean African, so...
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 29,779
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34840 on: August 3, 2022, 10:22:20 pm »
Sesko would be a great global software company name

Offline Ghost Town

  • Bands won't play no more. Too much fighting on the dance floor! Probably one of only three people who knows the meaning of "depuratory"......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,036
  • mundus vult decipi
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34841 on: August 3, 2022, 10:24:01 pm »
We've only taken a punt on an Austrian Bundesliga striker when there was a tiny buy-out clause. Unless he blows up this season, I'd say there'd be another club between him and LFC, perhaps Leipzig.
On the other hand Klopp has a thing about players who play well against us. And it usually works out well so it's not a bad thing in his case.

Who knows, but what this shows, again, is that there's always another player. If this kid does blow up than he'll be all the rage and the one everyone insists is the must buy player, we'll regret it if we don't etc...until the next one
"Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth, and every other man has a right to knock him down for it."
Samuel (not Glen) Johnson, as reported by James (not Joey) Boswell. They must have foreseen RAWK ;D

Offline Ghost Town

  • Bands won't play no more. Too much fighting on the dance floor! Probably one of only three people who knows the meaning of "depuratory"......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,036
  • mundus vult decipi
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34842 on: August 3, 2022, 10:24:28 pm »
we should stop messing around and complete the Mbappe deal
Why? Is Julian Ward leaving?
"Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth, and every other man has a right to knock him down for it."
Samuel (not Glen) Johnson, as reported by James (not Joey) Boswell. They must have foreseen RAWK ;D

Offline Lone Star Red

  • Tex
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,792
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34843 on: August 3, 2022, 10:52:14 pm »
Quote
Fútbol Total
@FutbolTotalCF
🚨 EXCL: El FC Barcelona quiere fichar a Trent Alexander-Arnold, contrato hasta 2025, en 2023 para ser su gran fichaje y completar la plantilla la próxima temporada. El club ofrecería aproximadamente 80 M€ por el lateral. #FCBlive 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

🚨 EXCL: FC Barcelona wants to sign Trent Alexander-Arnold, contract until 2025, in 2023 to be their big signing and complete the squad next season. The club would offer approximately 80 M € for the side.

https://twitter.com/FutbolTotalCF/status/1554913628846956546

 ;D
You cannot call overseas Liverpool supporters glory hunters. We’ve won one trophy this decade. If they’re glory hunters, they’re really bad ones. They’re actually journey hunters. It’s the journey and the story. Something about Liverpool has grabbed them." - Neil Atkinson (May, 2019)

"So don’t think about it – just play football.” - Jurgen Klopp

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

  • Rockwool Marketing Board Spokesman. Cracker Wanker. Fucking calmest man on RAWK, alright? ALRIGHT?! Definitely a bigger cunt than YOU!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,430
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34844 on: August 3, 2022, 11:05:21 pm »
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 60,325
  • YNWA
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34845 on: August 3, 2022, 11:06:32 pm »
Which side of him does the €80m get? And do they intend to purchase the other sides for €80m in future seasons?

Offline Sangria

  • In trying to be right ends up wrong without fail
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,101
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34846 on: August 3, 2022, 11:30:12 pm »
Sesko would be a great global software company name

He could run a gigolo company providing male escorts for hire. Sesko Rooters.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline amir87

  • gay-billeygoat-no-mates with a fetish for water sports. interrogative fingering, and nutella on his plums. possibly with his left phalange.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,557
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34847 on: August 3, 2022, 11:32:30 pm »
Which side of him does the €80m get? And do they intend to purchase the other sides for €80m in future seasons?

His quickly taken corners are alone worth €80m.

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 86,551
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34848 on: August 4, 2022, 02:09:45 am »
Looks like Luis Alberto will finally leave  Lazio!

€20m or so.. we get 30% (or maybe 30% of the profit??)
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline MD1990

  • Makes your eyes bleed and your brain hurt.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,045
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34849 on: August 4, 2022, 08:58:18 am »
Quote
United are searching for strikers and football director John Murtough met the agent of Benjamin Sesko last Wednesday. More talks are planned over the Red Bull Salzburg centre-forward but United face competition from Chelsea and possibly Liverpool, who have a good relationship with the Red Bull group. Sesko scored against Jurgen Klopp’s side last week.

From The  Athletic
nothing much but hopefully Sesko stays at Salzburg.
He probably needs to for his development

Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

  • Not so pleasant non-upholstered footer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,618
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34850 on: August 4, 2022, 09:04:37 am »
From The  Athletic
nothing much but hopefully Sesko stays at Salzburg.
He probably needs to for his development

You'd imagine that if we were interested, we'd look to do a deal where he could stay there for at least another season. No point bringing him in now when we have Nunez and Firmino (and Jota and Diaz and Salah).
And if the rain stops, and everything's dry.. she would cry, just so I could drink tears from her eyes.

Offline HardworkDedication

  • Hardwork and Dedication linked to many stories - Mingebag. Has no opinion of his own. Human news ticker tape.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,052
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34851 on: August 4, 2022, 09:14:44 am »
From The  Athletic
nothing much but hopefully Sesko stays at Salzburg.
He probably needs to for his development

"Possibly Liverpool". That sounds like pure guess work to be.

Offline Chris~

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,517
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34852 on: August 4, 2022, 09:16:30 am »
Why would we sign Sesko so soon after signing Nunez?

Offline HardworkDedication

  • Hardwork and Dedication linked to many stories - Mingebag. Has no opinion of his own. Human news ticker tape.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,052
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34853 on: August 4, 2022, 09:18:49 am »
Why would we sign Sesko so soon after signing Nunez?

Exactly. It's nonsense. Absolutely no chance we are interested in bringing Sesko to Liverpool imo.

Offline Ray K

  • Loves a shiny helmet. The new IndyKalia.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,807
  • Truthiness
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34854 on: August 4, 2022, 09:54:51 am »
we should stop messing around and complete the Mbappe deal
Running it close to get him registered for the Fulham game if you ask me.
"We have to change from doubters to believers"

Twitter: @rjkelly75

Offline .adam

  • .asking .for .trouble .for .arson .around .in .Sweden
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,264
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34855 on: August 4, 2022, 10:27:09 am »
Looks like Luis Alberto will finally leave  Lazio!

€20m or so.. we get 30% (or maybe 30% of the profit??)

Yeah, I think it's 30% of anything over and above about £6m. Looks like we sold him for £4.5m + add-ons and you've got to imagine most of those were achieved over the course of his time there.

Ryan Kent also linked with a move away and we've got a 20% clause there.

Offline rocco

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 36,633
  • ⭐️⭐️⭐️6 Times Baby ⭐️⭐️⭐️
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34856 on: August 4, 2022, 10:39:22 am »

Offline El Lobo

  • Chief Suck Up. Feel his breath on your face. Toxic, pathetic, arse-faced, weaselling slimeball. RAWK Maths Genius 2022.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 54,505
  • Pretty, pretty, pretty pretty good
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34857 on: August 4, 2022, 10:40:11 am »
If we can get those two sell-on fees then we might be able to start negotiating with Naby over a new contract, right clinical?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline MD1990

  • Makes your eyes bleed and your brain hurt.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,045
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34858 on: August 4, 2022, 11:43:52 am »
Ox out for months & Jones out for 2-4 weeks

I do think a CM is becoming more of a need now.
Not to say its anything like 2 years ago with the CB's.

We need rotation in midfield Thiago cannot play 5 games in a row imo too risky. Keita has had injury issues in the past.

When we see the profile of our midfield we really could do with a powerful midfield player imo. I like the look of Onana & Nunes.
Creativity wise our options are excellent

I do think Carvalho can be be great as a LCM & If Bajcetic could be an option but unproven

Offline Knight

  • No one understands football like me.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,329
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34859 on: August 4, 2022, 11:48:50 am »
We have loads of bodies for midfield but it’s really not an ideal group in some ways, how injury prone some of them are and Jones may be is one of the issues. Hopefully it won’t cost us this season.

Offline Tobelius

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,899
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34860 on: August 4, 2022, 12:07:38 pm »
Transfer hopefuls on on deadline day after the window slams shut.



Personally hoping we get new deals with Keita and Bobby sorted,perhaps Nat's transfer/loan to Bournemouth/Fulham.

Offline classycarra

  • The Left Disonourable Chuntering Member For Scousepool.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,267
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34861 on: August 4, 2022, 12:08:14 pm »
Why would we sign Sesko so soon after signing Nunez?

Because Ward likes it when the booty goes da na (na na)?

Offline Hazell

  • Ultimate Movie Night Draft Winner 2017. King - or Queen - of Mystery. Hyzenthlay. The 5th Benitle's sex conch.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 71,415
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34862 on: August 4, 2022, 12:11:03 pm »
Because Ward likes it when the booty goes da na (na na)?

I know he only scored 5 league goals last season but Ward thinks he can Unleash the Dragon that is Sesko.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline classycarra

  • The Left Disonourable Chuntering Member For Scousepool.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,267
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34863 on: August 4, 2022, 12:15:32 pm »
I know he only scored 5 league goals last season but Ward thinks he can Unleash the Dragon that is Sesko.

Absolutely. Wardie, if ya hear me, say yeaaah

Offline amir87

  • gay-billeygoat-no-mates with a fetish for water sports. interrogative fingering, and nutella on his plums. possibly with his left phalange.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,557
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34864 on: August 4, 2022, 01:19:48 pm »
I know he only scored 5 league goals last season but Ward thinks he can Unleash the Dragon that is Sesko.

Not the most agile though is he. Apparently turns like a truck truck truck.

Offline Crosby Nick

  • is a cushy number for the Plod who work in this largely crime free suburb. Ate two, Brucey. Thread locker extraordinaire. Might answer to Nick CRoxy. Imaginary cock prognosticator. Has experience of being a bit of a floating twat. Well drilled at the back
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 102,065
  • Poultry in Motion
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34865 on: August 4, 2022, 01:22:17 pm »
Unbelievable commitment to turn of the millennium shite RnB chaps. Well played.

Offline rafathegaffa83

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 39,556
  • Dutch Class
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34866 on: August 4, 2022, 02:11:05 pm »
Ox out for months & Jones out for 2-4 weeks

I do think a CM is becoming more of a need now.

Yep. Add one now for insurance and with next year in mind. It's the one part of our team we can afford to be overstocked in and with the condensed schedule for the WC we will inevitably pick up more injuries and have fatigue issues

Offline Gerry Attrick

  • Sancho's dad. Tight-arse, non-jackpot-sharing get :)
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 48,148
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34867 on: August 4, 2022, 03:13:23 pm »
Step forward Stefan Bajcetic. Guaranteed a game now, even if it's the League Cup. No way we buy a midfielder this late in a transfer window and he's the next taxi off the rank.

Offline Jookie

  • Ruptures, then repairs the tears
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,230
  • Muted Al 666's posts for my own sanity
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34868 on: August 4, 2022, 03:17:28 pm »
10 fixtures between now and end of October -  8 x PL and 2 x CL.

In August there are 5 games with the following gaps in between:

Fulham (A) - 8 day gap then
Palace (H) -  7 day gap then
United (A) - 4.5 day gap then
Bournemouth (H) - 4 day gap then
Newcastle (H) - 2.5 day gap to Everton

Worst case scenario (based on current info) is that Jones and AOC are out for all these games.

That would leave us with Thiago, Fabinho, Henderson, Keita, Elliott and Milner as frontline midfielders to cover these 5 games. Looking at the gap between games, we have big gaps except for Newcastle to Everton. Those gaps plus the 5 subs rule mean we should be able to manage relatively easy, even with Jones and AOC out. We also have the potential to tweak formation and go with 4 forwards in a game or 2 if required.

The only issue is if we are hit with additional significant long term injuries. Based on the current schedule and availability of midfielders there doesn't seem to be much risk at this point. We carry 8 midfielders, with some other potential depth options (Carvalho and Bajetic), to cover for these type of situations where 2 midfielders are out. Personally it feels a long way from panicking and needing to invest in any midfielder at this point.
I think Jookie might just be the best fisherman on this thread.

Offline Jookie

  • Ruptures, then repairs the tears
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,230
  • Muted Al 666's posts for my own sanity
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34869 on: August 4, 2022, 03:22:42 pm »
Step forward Stefan Bajcetic. Guaranteed a game now, even if it's the League Cup. No way we buy a midfielder this late in a transfer window and he's the next taxi off the rank.

There's 1 league cup game scheduled before the World Cup break. That game is w/c 7th November.

The potential next round of the league cup is the 1st game back after the winter/world cup break (w/c 19th Dec).

Very different schedule to the league cup this season and very little opportunity for players to get game time pre-Xmas in that competition. Lots of PL and CL games pre-world cup break (16PL and 6CL) but very few domestic cup games until end of December. If we go far in the league cup then January and early February could be a lot of domestic cup games (more so than other seasons).
I think Jookie might just be the best fisherman on this thread.

Offline Samie

  • The Ev of drafting! Rumoured to be the 7th, we may need that old magic back! The Timekeeper, ask him what time the action starts. Measures himself in inches (small is still small, dude!)
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 56,769
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34870 on: August 4, 2022, 03:23:28 pm »
Step forward Stefan Bajcetic. Guaranteed a game now, even if it's the League Cup. No way we buy a midfielder this late in a transfer window and he's the next taxi off the rank.

He's training with the first team squad today and seeing Pep's quotes of him in his new book today we may have found Fab's long term successor in the #6 role.

Offline JackWard33

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,880
  • President of the Harry Wilson fanclub
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34871 on: August 4, 2022, 03:33:49 pm »
Surely the discussion around midfield is about robustness / quality and balance .. not number of bodies - we know we've got a lot of players

Offline Jookie

  • Ruptures, then repairs the tears
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,230
  • Muted Al 666's posts for my own sanity
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34872 on: August 4, 2022, 03:54:50 pm »
Surely the discussion around midfield is about robustness / quality and balance .. not number of bodies - we know we've got a lot of players

I agree.

If we had robust midfielders we wouldn't carry 8 for 3 positions. The fact we have so many senior 1st team squad midfielders is a consequence of the durability of some of them, added to what we expect from our midfield. I do think that expectation of what we ask our midfielders to do has subtly changed over the last few seasons but it's fair to say that it's still a demanding position.

Manchester City for example only really carry 6 senior midfielders  - Phillips, Rodri, De Bruyne, Silva, Gundogan and Foden. Even then Foden was used mainly in the front 3 last season. In addition they have Cole Palmer on the periphery of the squad. Maybe 6.5 players for 3 positions is more accurate.

In terms of quality, I think there is a question. A question that is almost exclusively determined by how good Jones and Elliott are this season. We know the quartet of Fabinho, Thiago, Keita and Henderson have the qualities to play in the No.6 and No.8 roles at a high level. Additionally we know Milner is an experienced option that will mainly be used off the bench and AOC is probably 8th choice and really there for depth. The question then becomes are Elliot and/or Jones going to force themselves into that quartet of 1st choice midfielders or will they be on the periphery and more like a Milner/AOC type option.

Personally I think how Elliott and Jones develop answers the quality question about our midfield. A question that I think it's difficult for any supporter to genuinely answer with a degree of confidence at this point. But a question where we need to give these players time and space to grow and develop this season before we really know the answer. I don't think our seasons hopes rely on Jones or Elliott. How could they do? They are 5th and 6th choice midfielders (in a linear list from 1st to 8th) so they aren't that important at this point. But if they can push themselves into  3rd or 4th choice during the season then that would suggest they've developed and the quality as a group has increased. That can only help the midfield and team as a whole.
« Last Edit: August 4, 2022, 03:56:28 pm by Jookie »
I think Jookie might just be the best fisherman on this thread.

Offline Fromola

  • Lomola... “The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the King!...” Places stock in the wrong opinions. Miserable F*cker! Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,105
  • Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34873 on: August 4, 2022, 04:29:04 pm »
I agree.

If we had robust midfielders we wouldn't carry 8 for 3 positions. The fact we have so many senior 1st team squad midfielders is a consequence of the durability of some of them, added to what we expect from our midfield. I do think that expectation of what we ask our midfielders to do has subtly changed over the last few seasons but it's fair to say that it's still a demanding position.

Manchester City for example only really carry 6 senior midfielders  - Phillips, Rodri, De Bruyne, Silva, Gundogan and Foden. Even then Foden was used mainly in the front 3 last season. In addition they have Cole Palmer on the periphery of the squad. Maybe 6.5 players for 3 positions is more accurate.

In terms of quality, I think there is a question. A question that is almost exclusively determined by how good Jones and Elliott are this season. We know the quartet of Fabinho, Thiago, Keita and Henderson have the qualities to play in the No.6 and No.8 roles at a high level. Additionally we know Milner is an experienced option that will mainly be used off the bench and AOC is probably 8th choice and really there for depth. The question then becomes are Elliot and/or Jones going to force themselves into that quartet of 1st choice midfielders or will they be on the periphery and more like a Milner/AOC type option.

Personally I think how Elliott and Jones develop answers the quality question about our midfield. A question that I think it's difficult for any supporter to genuinely answer with a degree of confidence at this point. But a question where we need to give these players time and space to grow and develop this season before we really know the answer. I don't think our seasons hopes rely on Jones or Elliott. How could they do? They are 5th and 6th choice midfielders (in a linear list from 1st to 8th) so they aren't that important at this point. But if they can push themselves into  3rd or 4th choice during the season then that would suggest they've developed and the quality as a group has increased. That can only help the midfield and team as a whole.

There's a certain profile of midfielder we're lacking though and that's why we went big on Tchouameni as our main target and are still eyeing Bellingham. We don't seem willing to get someone (be it a Nunes or Onana who were mentioned) as a back up/rotation player though and that's where it becomes all or nothing,as there's a limited number of players who improve our team. We rarely buy experienced players unless it's to immediately improve the team and buy young players to develop into the squad (i.e. Carvalho, Ramsey).  We may have gone for that lad at Villa who's just gone to Chelsea if we didn't already have Elliott and Jones. Tsimikas was an exception and that was acknowledging Robertson needed cover.

Henderson, Thiago and Milner are very much advancing in years. Ox will go next year, Keita might go with him and Elliott and Jones are still young and developing and you don't know how good they'll turn out to be. They missed much of last season with injury when they'd have got more chances. It's surprising we haven't done business there this summer, as we'll end up needing 2 or 3 soon.
« Last Edit: August 4, 2022, 04:47:18 pm by Fromola »
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline El Lobo

  • Chief Suck Up. Feel his breath on your face. Toxic, pathetic, arse-faced, weaselling slimeball. RAWK Maths Genius 2022.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 54,505
  • Pretty, pretty, pretty pretty good
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34874 on: August 4, 2022, 04:42:46 pm »
There's a certain profile of midfielder we're lacking though and that's why we went big on Tchouameni as our main target and are still eyeing Bellingham. We don't seem willing to get someone (be it a Nunes or Onana who were mentioned) as a back up/rotation player though and that's where it becomes all or nothing. We rarely buy experienced players unless it's to immediately improve the team and buy young players to develop into the squad (i.e. Carvalho, Ramsey).  We may have gone for that lad at Villa who's just gone to Chelsea if we didn't already have Elliott and Jones. Tsimikas was an exception and that was acknowledging Robertson needed cover.

Henderson, Thiago and Milner are very much advancing in years. Ox will go next year, Keita might go with him and Elliott and Jones are still young and developing and you don't know how good they'll turn out to be. They missed much of last season with injury when they'd have got more chances. It's surprising we haven't done business there this summer, as we'll end up needing 2 or 3 soon.

At no point does it become 'all or nothing'. I mean you've literally just said we 'went big on Tchouameni as our main target and are still eyeing Bellingham.' so clearly it wasn't all or nothing. We generally have quite specific targets who ticks the most boxes, and once we start getting down the list it becomes 'well we might as well wait, I'm pretty sure we can cope until we can get someone we really want'.

But look we've been here before, many times. This set-up since Klopp is pretty much unprecedented in terms of success. Wenger and Ferguson both had spells where they made some great signings but never so many consistent big successes as we've had. If they haven't done enough to earn your trust that they know what they're doing (I dont mean you specifically because we know how you operate), then they never will.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Fromola

  • Lomola... “The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the King!...” Places stock in the wrong opinions. Miserable F*cker! Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,105
  • Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34875 on: August 4, 2022, 04:51:05 pm »
At no point does it become 'all or nothing'. I mean you've literally just said we 'went big on Tchouameni as our main target and are still eyeing Bellingham.' so clearly it wasn't all or nothing. We generally have quite specific targets who ticks the most boxes, and once we start getting down the list it becomes 'well we might as well wait, I'm pretty sure we can cope until we can get someone we really want'.

But look we've been here before, many times. This set-up since Klopp is pretty much unprecedented in terms of success. Wenger and Ferguson both had spells where they made some great signings but never so many consistent big successes as we've had. If they haven't done enough to earn your trust that they know what they're doing (I dont mean you specifically because we know how you operate), then they never will.

It's all or nothing in terms of 'does the player improve the team' rather than just the squad? which is a very limited number of players now and they'll cost an arm and a leg. We did well to get Thiago for the price we did and knowing he'd immediataely improve the team. Bellingham perhaps a bit different as whether or not he immediately improves the team he falls into that age bracket of a younger player who can really push on.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline Jookie

  • Ruptures, then repairs the tears
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,230
  • Muted Al 666's posts for my own sanity
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34876 on: August 4, 2022, 05:12:31 pm »
Henderson, Thiago and Milner are very much advancing in years. Ox will go next year, Keita might go with him and Elliott and Jones are still young and developing and you don't know how good they'll turn out to be. They missed much of last season with injury when they'd have got more chances. It's surprising we haven't done business there this summer, as we'll end up needing 2 or 3 soon.

This is a very similar argument to what people were making 18-24 months ago around the front 3. We had quality options that were ageing and needed decisions around contract extensions plus the back ups (Origi and Minamino) weren't at that level and might leave anyway. Fast forward 2 years and the front line looks completely revitalised and set for the next 3 years at least. You could argue that the same can be said about the defence also.

In terms of the midfield, if we just use this season as the reference point, are you concerned about overall quality or numbers with our options:

Fabinho, Thiago, Kieta, Henderson, Elliott, Jones, Milner, AOC, (Carvalho, Bajetic)

Forget about future planning and assume that the people Liverpool employ will know the midfield needs refreshing in the next 2 years and will have a plan. For this season, are you concerned about the current depth?

If so, could you say what you propose should happen this summer? In terms of INs and OUTs. Assuming Bellingham is not available but players like Nunes are and buying a player or 2 for 40M is not prohibitive. Doesn't even have to be a named player. It's fine to be generic but suggest the profile of that player and where he fits in the pecking order when joining.

So now you have your new midfield options (if you've decided to buy someone). Can you suggest how many minutes over the season you would want from each? Assume we get to the final of the CL and it's 51 games when you include the PL. That's 153 starts in midfield assuming 3 midfielders per game. Or it's a total of 13,770 minutes. Let's throw in 8 domestic cup games and assume it's another really successful season. That's roughly 15,800 minutes in total for the midfield positions.

Here's my projections based on the current options:

Fabinho 3000 minutes
Henderson 3000 minutes
Thiago 2500 minutes
Keita 2000 minutes
Milner 1200 minutes (mainly domestic cup games and sub appearances)
Elliott 1500 minutes
Jones 1500 minutes
AOC 700 minutes (mainly domestic cup games and sub appearances)
Bajetic 180 minutes (domestic cups)
Carvalho 220 minutes (domestic cups and potential subs -  will get more minutes as front 3 player).

Those projections of minutes are either lower than last season or similar to last season for each player. Elliott is the only player with a significant increase.

Interested how you fit in another midfielder, even with the subtraction of AOC, but still give reasonable minutes to Elliott and Jones.

Really interested to hear your thoughts process (and others) around this. With conservative estimates of playing time and potential optimistic estimates of how many games we'll play (i.e. 59) then it's hard to see how any new player gets game time and it not have a knock on effect on development of others.

With regards to the above I don't necessarily think we can throw Thcoumanei into the argument. We have no idea what the knock-on effect of signing him may have been. Maybe we would have binned Keita and AOC. Maybe Jones and AOC. Maybe we'd have carried another midfielder and not paid so much for a Mane replacement (i.e. Darwin Nunez).  Hard to know how that effects things so put that to one side and if you get the chance tell me what you would do now around midfield and expected playing minutes.

« Last Edit: August 4, 2022, 05:17:35 pm by Jookie »
I think Jookie might just be the best fisherman on this thread.

Offline Fromola

  • Lomola... “The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the King!...” Places stock in the wrong opinions. Miserable F*cker! Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,105
  • Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34877 on: August 4, 2022, 05:23:09 pm »
This is a very similar argument to what people were making 18-24 months ago around the front 3. We had quality options that were ageing and needed decisions around contract extensions plus the back ups (Origi and Minamino) weren't at that level and might leave anyway. Fast forward 2 years and the front line looks completely revitalised and set for the next 3 years at least. You could argue that the same can be said about the defence also.

Agree, but we've got 3 in over the last couple of years with Jota/Diaz and Nunez and will need to do similar with midfield. It may be the time to get the first of them in now (i.e. Jota in 2020 who was also signed as a rotation player/back up more immediately). We also signed Minamino in 2020 who was signed more as a back up which we don't usually do with senior players. We don't seem willing to make those kind of buys with the midfield, as you can see the strategy is to develop younger players (Jones, Elliott, Carvalho, Bajetic etc) rather than have their progression potentially blocked. We do run the risk of needing to make 2 or 3 big midfield buys quite quickly over the next couple of summers though.

Getting Jota when we did allowed a more seamless transition with the forward line.

Quote
could you say what you propose should happen this summer? In terms of INs and OUTs. Assuming Bellingham is not available but players like Nunes are and buying a player or 2 for 40M is not prohibitive. Doesn't even have to be a named player. It's fine to be generic but suggest the profile of that player and where he fits in the pecking order when joining.

The issue is we're fully stocked numbers wise. From Klopp's point of view we can't really bring players in without moving a senior player on first because he's got to keep a happy squad. Ideally i'd have made a decision either way with Keita (i.e. sell now or sign now) and then if he didn't sign got someone else in. Wijnaldum saw his last year out in the end but it didn't stop us getting Thiago. Carvalho pretty much replaces Ox anyway.

If we got someone in like Nunes he'd get plenty of games. We're playing every single midweek during the season and we're going to pick up injuries at times and will need rotation anyway. We need a bit more legs in there and someone who can offer similar to what Thiago does in a deeper role. Thiago makes us tick, when he's not there it can be a struggle.
« Last Edit: August 4, 2022, 05:35:42 pm by Fromola »
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline Knight

  • No one understands football like me.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,329
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34878 on: August 4, 2022, 05:50:57 pm »
I don’t think anyone is saying we should sign another midfielder and keep who we’ve got. We’re saying that ideally we’d do what you hypothesise in the last paragraph. The makeup of our midfield options isn’t ideal, and preferably we’d lose one/two of them and replace them with one/two. At this point everyone knows we won’t but we’re weaker for it. And when we get a few more injuries (because it wouldn’t be a surprise at all) we’ll see one of the reasons the makeup of the midfield isn’t idea.

Offline Dave McCoy

  • "Don't you know who I am?!"
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,971
  • 11,053ft up
Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #34879 on: August 4, 2022, 05:51:32 pm »
This is a very similar argument to what people were making 18-24 months ago around the front 3. We had quality options that were ageing and needed decisions around contract extensions plus the back ups (Origi and Minamino) weren't at that level and might leave anyway. Fast forward 2 years and the front line looks completely revitalised and set for the next 3 years at least. You could argue that the same can be said about the defence also.

In terms of the midfield, if we just use this season as the reference point, are you concerned about overall quality or numbers with our options:

Fabinho, Thiago, Kieta, Henderson, Elliott, Jones, Milner, AOC, (Carvalho, Bajetic)

Forget about future planning and assume that the people Liverpool employ will know the midfield needs refreshing in the next 2 years and will have a plan. For this season, are you concerned about the current depth?

If so, could you say what you propose should happen this summer? In terms of INs and OUTs. Assuming Bellingham is not available but players like Nunes are and buying a player or 2 for 40M is not prohibitive. Doesn't even have to be a named player. It's fine to be generic but suggest the profile of that player and where he fits in the pecking order when joining.

So now you have your new midfield options (if you've decided to buy someone). Can you suggest how many minutes over the season you would want from each? Assume we get to the final of the CL and it's 51 games when you include the PL. That's 153 starts in midfield assuming 3 midfielders per game. Or it's a total of 13,770 minutes. Let's throw in 8 domestic cup games and assume it's another really successful season. That's roughly 15,800 minutes in total for the midfield positions.

Here's my projections based on the current options:

Fabinho 3000 minutes
Henderson 3000 minutes
Thiago 2500 minutes
Keita 2000 minutes
Milner 1200 minutes (mainly domestic cup games and sub appearances)
Elliott 1500 minutes
Jones 1500 minutes
AOC 700 minutes (mainly domestic cup games and sub appearances)
Bajetic 180 minutes (domestic cups)
Carvalho 220 minutes (domestic cups and potential subs -  will get more minutes as front 3 player).

Those projections of minutes are either lower than last season or similar to last season for each player. Elliott is the only player with a significant increase.

Interested how you fit in another midfielder, even with the subtraction of AOC, but still give reasonable minutes to Elliott and Jones.

Really interested to hear your thoughts process (and others) around this. With conservative estimates of playing time and potential optimistic estimates of how many games we'll play (i.e. 59) then it's hard to see how any new player gets game time and it not have a knock on effect on development of others.

With regards to the above I don't necessarily think we can throw Thcoumanei into the argument. We have no idea what the knock-on effect of signing him may have been. Maybe we would have binned Keita and AOC. Maybe Jones and AOC. Maybe we'd have carried another midfielder and not paid so much for a Mane replacement (i.e. Darwin Nunez).  Hard to know how that effects things so put that to one side and if you get the chance tell me what you would do now around midfield and expected playing minutes.

Because they're all not equal in ability and you can't just plug and play one for another without having some real consequences for team ability. So to just line up all the minutes and say it's all the same just isn't accurate.

For me you have Fabinho and Thiago as basically World Class or Great and then the rest all have issues of some sort that. Now we have Klopp and I trust that he'll always be able to jigsaw this together but it can be the difference between a title and not. The Spurs game for instance, it was a midfield of Morton, Milner and Keita. Yes we should have had a penalty and a red card but we also had absolutely no control in the game at all. So having to play two of Ox, Jones, Elliot, Milner and possibly even Keita in any combination in midfield could be extremely problematic depending on the opponent.

It also may not matter as any absences may just line up perfectly and we win the title on the trot, who knows? But if there's something you want to pick a hole in for why we may come up short then this is exactly it and why people keep saying we need someone else.