Author Topic: Crawley Town / NFTs  (Read 2160 times)

Offline thaddeus

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,630
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Crawley Town / NFTs
« on: July 25, 2022, 01:45:15 pm »
Crawley Town: The 'internet's football team' aiming for the Premier League

They describe themselves as "the internet's football team" and have ambitions to reach the Premier League by reinventing what they call the "broken", "legacy" model of club management.

Wagmi United, the American consortium who recently purchased League Two Crawley Town, are nothing if not storytellers.

Even their name reads like a manifesto. Wagmi is an acronym for 'We're All Going to Make it', an aspirational rallying cry familiar to cryptocurrency communities dreaming of striking it big.
In short, the new owners are crypto bros.  They raised an impressive £3.5m through their own NFT earlier this month - over triple what we made for our ill-conceived NFTs (less said about that the better)!  Apparently many have already flipped their NFTs although each sale guarantees 7.5% commission royalty to Crawley.  That's decent money for a club with a £1.5m/year wage bill.

As well as being speculative assets those owning NFTs will also have some say in how the club is run, reminiscent of the ill-fated MyFootballClub project.

I feel like a neanderthal but I'm hoping it falls flat.  To a flat earther like me it sounds like they've just replaced shares with NFTs.

Offline Fromola

  • Lomola... “The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the King!...” Places stock in the wrong opinions. Miserable F*cker! Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,105
  • Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2022, 01:49:03 pm »
Well at least it would take over from Reading as the shittest away day.

It's all very boom and bust though. They'll go the way of Bury before troubling the PL.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline rodderzzz

  • Plonkah!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,325
  • That's Bullshit Miss!
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2022, 05:01:28 pm »
 As someone who dabbles in crypto and NFT's, I wouldn't be so sure that this dies quickly, if they have a good start to the season the NFT community rallies hard around projects and the better they do the more value there is in their NFT's. Ultimately it comes down to who makes decisions on the playing sides because I don't expect the money flow to be an issue, which is usually what kills these fan lead projects eventually. I'll be watching.

Offline Fromola

  • Lomola... “The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the King!...” Places stock in the wrong opinions. Miserable F*cker! Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,105
  • Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2022, 06:06:17 pm »
As someone who dabbles in crypto and NFT's, I wouldn't be so sure that this dies quickly, if they have a good start to the season the NFT community rallies hard around projects and the better they do the more value there is in their NFT's. Ultimately it comes down to who makes decisions on the playing sides because I don't expect the money flow to be an issue, which is usually what kills these fan lead projects eventually. I'll be watching.

It's a nothing club though. They're lucky to get 2000 through the gate.

They might do okay initially but FFP is enforced in EFL and a club like that aren't going to generate big revenues. Salford in a similar boat have been stuck in that league for a while after buying their way out of non league.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline rodderzzz

  • Plonkah!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,325
  • That's Bullshit Miss!
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2022, 06:08:34 pm »
It's a nothing club though. They're lucky to get 2000 through the gate.

They might do okay initially but FFP is enforced in EFL and a club like that aren't going to generate big revenues. Salford in a similar boat have been stuck in that league for a while after buying their way out of non league.

The reach of the NFT community is not remotely comparable to the reach of greater manchester. The revenue alone of their NFT's if it takes off, along with the commercial deals that could come with you, would dwarf Salford

Offline Max_powers

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,347
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2022, 06:12:00 pm »
The question should be what is even the point of it? You can adopt a membership model. Which raises capital in a similar way and gives fans a voice. The club can also go public and give fans a chance to own the actual club through shares. Season tickets already exist. From the article, it seems that the actual voting power these fans will have will be very limited look at the example it provides. You can achieve all of what this NFT does using a centralized database.


Sure for a small club, this generates "hype" from crypto bros and gives them a way to make money from them.

But what is the actual benefit for fans? That they can trade their season tickets and the club takes a 7.5% cut each time you do so? What happens if there is a hack? Are fans expected to go on Twitter and complain that all my football club is gone?

Offline afc turkish

  • How long for them sausages? Maggie May's Mythical Turkish Delight. RAWK's Expert Sausage Monster! Oakley Cannonier is fucking boss. Likes blowing his friends? Who nose?!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,601
  • This looks like a nice spot...
    • Flat Back Four
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2022, 08:27:02 pm »
Are fans expected to go on Twitter and complain that all my football club is gone?

Only the fungible version would be gone, I suppose...
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

Online Ghost Town

  • Bands won't play no more. Too much fighting on the dance floor! Probably one of only three people who knows the meaning of "depuratory"......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,036
  • mundus vult decipi
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2022, 11:45:05 pm »
Lol at NFT bros' never-ending optimism that wagmi
"Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth, and every other man has a right to knock him down for it."
Samuel (not Glen) Johnson, as reported by James (not Joey) Boswell. They must have foreseen RAWK ;D

Offline Linudden

  • Twpsyn gwirion. Definitely a Ron DeSantis fanboy
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,185
  • Linudden.
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2022, 12:42:39 am »
NFT's are the biggest scam since the Nigerian emails.
Linudden.

Offline stoa

  • way. Daydream. Quite partial to a good plonking.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,347
  • Five+One Times, Baby...
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2022, 01:09:06 am »
The question should be what is even the point of it? You can adopt a membership model. Which raises capital in a similar way and gives fans a voice. The club can also go public and give fans a chance to own the actual club through shares. Season tickets already exist. From the article, it seems that the actual voting power these fans will have will be very limited look at the example it provides. You can achieve all of what this NFT does using a centralized database.


Sure for a small club, this generates "hype" from crypto bros and gives them a way to make money from them.

But what is the actual benefit for fans? That they can trade their season tickets and the club takes a 7.5% cut each time you do so? What happens if there is a hack? Are fans expected to go on Twitter and complain that all my football club is gone?

There is no real benefit for fans. It's a money-making scheme for the club based on the hope that the crypto-bros keep pumping money in hoping they get rich. That's it. I'm no crypto-/NFT-expert, but this is the way I see it: You buy an NFT for 0.36 ETH (which is roughly 500 Euros I think) and in return you get "Special input and voting on the future of Crawley Town FC" whatever that means, some special merch like a scarf and some other shite and more shite you get at every other club that offers membership (like behind the scenes videos, videos from the bench during matches and some digital shite that costs the club next to nothing). Furthermore, you might get free tickets for "some CTFC home matches" but that's still "(TBD)". And you get access to some IRL events no one knows anything about yet.

I'm not sure I'd pay 500 Euros especially when it's about some club from some no-mark English football club, but of course the crypto-bros will buy, because they'll hope that the whole world and their dog will want to get on board and the NFTs will increase in value making them rich. Well, I'm not really sure that this is going to happen. For the club, it's a great way to make money. For their "investors" not so much. I would imagine they'll make some more money by pushing the whole concept a bit and getting some more publicity, but in the end no one will give a fuck anymore and the crypto-bros will end up with some worthless NFT while everyone is going for the next "big thing" in NFT-land.


In terms of why they don't just do a special membership-scheme offering all that, the wagmi-guy in the article says why they don't, when he goes on about NFTs normally not telling a story, but how their NFT is great, because it tells the story of their small club on the way to the Premier League. I'd argue it's the opposite. They're doing it as an NFT, because than they can sell their special membership packet to people who want to make money with it instead of 500 people in Crawley who actually give a fuck about the football club. The people (who have no connection to the club) would buy the NFTs, if they were linked to specks of dust on the moon surface, because they might increase in value. They don't give a fuck about the football club and the story, they want to make money with this. Otherwise, there's absolutely no reason to make the investment.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 01:17:52 am by stoa »

Online JasonF

  • Frenkie says "Ilaix, don't do it"
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,566
    • Funny T-Shirts
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2022, 02:30:02 am »
NFT's are the biggest scam since the Nigerian emails.

Are you saying my Maria Khumalo NFT is worthless?  :-\

Offline rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 37,695
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2022, 08:22:22 am »
Are you saying my Maria Khumalo NFT is worthless?  :-\

Nah, Maria Khumalo is 100% legit
Fuck the Tories

Offline thaddeus

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,630
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2022, 10:23:43 am »
I've done a half-hearted web search but only found lots of middle men companies... how does someone track the value of an NFT?  It would be interesting to see how the Crawley sharesNFTs values change.

Having typed that I'm not not even sure it works that way.  The hilarious story of the "first ever tweet" NFT massively devaluing shines a light that, like a classic painting, the value is really just whatever someone will pay at any given time.  When the NFTs are mass-produced, like a traditional share, maybe they do have a more trackable market??

Offline Lusty

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,652
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2022, 10:53:47 am »
I've done a half-hearted web search but only found lots of middle men companies... how does someone track the value of an NFT?  It would be interesting to see how the Crawley sharesNFTs values change.

Having typed that I'm not not even sure it works that way.  The hilarious story of the "first ever tweet" NFT massively devaluing shines a light that, like a classic painting, the value is really just whatever someone will pay at any given time.  When the NFTs are mass-produced, like a traditional share, maybe they do have a more trackable market??
The difference being that, with a classic painting, you at least have a nice painting.

Online Ghost Town

  • Bands won't play no more. Too much fighting on the dance floor! Probably one of only three people who knows the meaning of "depuratory"......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,036
  • mundus vult decipi
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2022, 11:33:33 am »
The difference being that, with a classic painting, you at least have a nice painting.
but you don't have the cult-like promise that wagmi.

The things almost a crime
"Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth, and every other man has a right to knock him down for it."
Samuel (not Glen) Johnson, as reported by James (not Joey) Boswell. They must have foreseen RAWK ;D

Offline stoa

  • way. Daydream. Quite partial to a good plonking.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,347
  • Five+One Times, Baby...
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2022, 11:42:01 am »
I've done a half-hearted web search but only found lots of middle men companies... how does someone track the value of an NFT?  It would be interesting to see how the Crawley sharesNFTs values change.

Having typed that I'm not not even sure it works that way.  The hilarious story of the "first ever tweet" NFT massively devaluing shines a light that, like a classic painting, the value is really just whatever someone will pay at any given time.  When the NFTs are mass-produced, like a traditional share, maybe they do have a more trackable market??

As far as I understand it, there are marketplaces for NFTs and the value of it is what people are prepared to pay for them. Looks like the Crawley Town thingy is not doing that well. https://opensea.io/assets/ethereum/0x3b1417c1f204607deda4767929497256e4ff540c/1

I think it's also important to note that those NFTs are in no way like shares. You don't own part of the club or anything. They even say so on their website (https://wagmiunited.com/wagmi-united-overview). If you scroll down long enough you get to the part where it says what the NFT gets you and it's basically some nebulous stuff about having a say in certain decisions, maybe getting free tickets for some games, getting access to some events, getting some merch and getting some digital merch. That's it. It even says on there: "To be clear, ownership of the NFT does not give you direct ownership of Crawley Town FC. It does give you weighted input on big-picture club items. Again, we want this to be a community club that gives fans with an internet connection a meaningful voice." So basically, you pay them for the NFT and in return you get some useless shite that will cost them a few quid at most. I would imagine there will also be some quite saucy clauses in ther terms of use, but I honestly can't be arsed reading those...

Offline thaddeus

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,630
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2022, 11:57:49 am »
As far as I understand it, there are marketplaces for NFTs and the value of it is what people are prepared to pay for them. Looks like the Crawley Town thingy is not doing that well. https://opensea.io/assets/ethereum/0x3b1417c1f204607deda4767929497256e4ff540c/1

I think it's also important to note that those NFTs are in no way like shares. You don't own part of the club or anything. They even say so on their website (https://wagmiunited.com/wagmi-united-overview). If you scroll down long enough you get to the part where it says what the NFT gets you and it's basically some nebulous stuff about having a say in certain decisions, maybe getting free tickets for some games, getting access to some events, getting some merch and getting some digital merch. That's it. It even says on there: "To be clear, ownership of the NFT does not give you direct ownership of Crawley Town FC. It does give you weighted input on big-picture club items. Again, we want this to be a community club that gives fans with an internet connection a meaningful voice." So basically, you pay them for the NFT and in return you get some useless shite that will cost them a few quid at most. I would imagine there will also be some quite saucy clauses in ther terms of use, but I honestly can't be arsed reading those...
Thanks  :thumbup

It looks like it's lost over half its value in less than three weeks.  I expect WAGMI have something in place to re-inflate the hype in the future.

Thanks for the clarity on what the NFT does and doesn't give.  It sounds inferior to having a traditional share.

Offline latortuga

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,907
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2022, 12:35:33 pm »
The Mona Lisa of football support. ::) ;D

Offline thaddeus

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,630
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2022, 11:14:13 am »
What cost £353 at launch is now worth £145 while Crawley's seemingly one-off windfall has been so wisely invested they're currently 20th in League Two.  I'm not sure how they go about re-inflating it but apparently a cup upset win against Fulham's reserves didn't cut it.

Offline Drinks Sangria

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,045
  • 'I'm caught on your coat again.'
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2022, 09:06:53 am »
By all accounts Balagizi has shone amongst a poor side, but it always seemed to me such a strange, dull, horrible dysfunctional little club to place him in. There's teams like Port Vale in League One and Swindon or Tranmere in League Two who are crying out for a striker but are at least competitive. There's been a few of our loans in recent years where I've not understood the thinking.
“Seeing these smiling faces is the greatest pleasure. They have been magnificent all season. They have been our 12th man. I have always said our fans are the best in England. Now I know they are the best in Europe too.” Rafa Benitez

Offline Boston always unofficial

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,782
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2022, 07:51:22 pm »
By all accounts Balagizi has shone amongst a poor side, but it always seemed to me such a strange, dull, horrible dysfunctional little club to place him in. There's teams like Port Vale in League One and Swindon or Tranmere in League Two who are crying out for a striker but are at least competitive. There's been a few of our loans in recent years where I've not understood the thinking.

Is Balagizi playing as a striker there,was always an attacking mid type for Liverpool no?

Offline Adz LFC

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 897
  • Believer. 19 & 6
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2022, 08:38:08 pm »
By all accounts Balagizi has shone amongst a poor side, but it always seemed to me such a strange, dull, horrible dysfunctional little club to place him in. There's teams like Port Vale in League One and Swindon or Tranmere in League Two who are crying out for a striker but are at least competitive. There's been a few of our loans in recent years where I've not understood the thinking.

Quote
James Balagizi explains Crawley Town transfer after extending Liverpool contract

Crawley boss Kevin Betsy worked with Balagizi with the England youth teams, handing him his debut at 15 and then pairing back up with the Under-18 team. The opportunity of bringing in a player with 'great pedigree' was something Betsy could not pass up.

“We are really thankful to Liverpool for allowing James to join us on loan," Betsy told Crawley's official website. "He is an extremely talented young man who I have known for a very long time. He is highly thought of at Liverpool, so for them to send him to us and trust us with a real asset of theirs speaks volumes for the football club.

"James can be a box-to-box to midfielder with great athleticism and speed. He can also play a real defensive role at times, as he is really astute in his positioning. A real class act who I believe will show his quality once he gets on the pitch for us. This really is a fantastic signing for us as he already has a great pedigree and has played for his national side at such a young age.”

On the switch, Balagizi said: “I am over the moon to sign here, and I feel like this is the right move for myself and my family. My relationship with Kevin is what brought me to the club as he was in my ear and telling me that I should join. However, after he spoke to me, I did some research on the club, and I really liked the project that they are building here.”

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/james-balagizi-crawley-liverpool-transfer-24368897.amp


Is Balagizi playing as a striker there,was always an attacking mid type for Liverpool no?

Looks like he’s been playing a variety of midfield/attacking roles, but not as an out-and-out striker
I’m so glad that Jürgen is a Red…

Offline classycarra

  • The Left Disonourable Chuntering Member For Scousepool.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,267
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2022, 10:12:56 pm »
What cost £353 at launch is now worth £145 while Crawley's seemingly one-off windfall has been so wisely invested they're currently 20th in League Two.
Haha

Offline rushyman

  • Not A Badgeman. Fuck him. Please. Someone. Anyone! But not Jonathan Pearce.....
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 56,773
  • On Halloween, parents send kids out lookin like me
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2022, 10:30:45 pm »
So it would just be Crawley but rich

I fail to see the difference they’re trying to teach
The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall

Mitch Hedberg

Offline Sheer Magnetism

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,019
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2022, 12:46:11 pm »
Just sacked Matthew Etherington after three games (or he left - there are contrasting reports), shortly after selling their best permanent player to a relegation arrival, apparently against his will. Taking caretakers into account, they could have their fifth manager in eight months coming up.

The Lower League Look podcast have an episode with some fans and a spokesperson for the owner. Sad but very entertaining: https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1djGXlwANLvGZ. Honestly, what a shambles.

Offline Statto Red

  • Hung like a sperm whale but only around the middle. Proud owner of a couple of spare arms, although is pits pong like the bins, not very appealing. Bambi on ice.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,366
  • Kloppite
Re: Crawley Town / NFTs
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2022, 08:19:37 pm »
That they had to flog their best player to a relegation rival, & couple of other players are already out on loan too[most likely looking to transfer them], so sounds like the new owners have already run out of money.
#Sausages