Author Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023  (Read 332975 times)

Online markmywords

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9600 on: Yesterday at 11:55:32 pm »
Prime Kanchelskis, and Ince revealed last week that it was Fergie’s decision to part with him and they had not fallen out.

Kanchelskis was 26 when he left, ince 27, their leaving was more about Becks,butt and scholes coming thru, than Ferie having a strategy of selling people before they dip physically.  He didnt need to have such a strategy so didn't, in 2013 he had evra 32,  rio 34, giggs 39, carrick 31, vidic 31, scholes 38, fletcher 29, van persie 29, playing regular

Offline Sangria

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9601 on: Today at 12:01:44 am »
Not really my point at all. You play the cards you are dealt in your era.

My point was Ferguson sold on players before they declined and refreshed his squad like an empire builder.
Klopp has many qualities but not that. He quite likes being a 'luxury underdog'. But with Liverpool, and with the brilliant talent he has, he could have achieved more, still can.

I think Klopp has learnt the wrong lessons from his past. He secured players so that Bayern can't poach them for nothing. However, there isn't a Bayern in our league, so there was no risk of that. Instead, we have FSG who work on the basis that having the wrong player is a greater opportunity cost than missing out on a player. We have too many players whom we haven't been able to move on, and FSG have not been willing to back down on their demands given the squad we have. We have to learn this particular lesson, which I was going on about some years ago. Move players on even if we think of them as untouchables, if they are physically declining. Class may be permanent, but physicality is not. Class can show itself on the ball, but it's off the ball where we're really, really bad, and there's no substitute for athleticism.

On that note, I'd move on Van Dijk before I'd move on Gomez, unless there's a stupidly good offer for the latter. Keep the English core, if they're not ageing and especially if they can fit into multiple positions. Clear the way for overseas players.
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Online markmywords

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9602 on: Today at 12:29:53 am »
I think Klopp has learnt the wrong lessons from his past. He secured players so that Bayern can't poach them for nothing. However, there isn't a Bayern in our league, so there was no risk of that. Instead, we have FSG who work on the basis that having the wrong player is a greater opportunity cost than missing out on a player. We have too many players whom we haven't been able to move on, and FSG have not been willing to back down on their demands given the squad we have. We have to learn this particular lesson, which I was going on about some years ago. Move players on even if we think of them as untouchables, if they are physically declining. Class may be permanent, but physicality is not. Class can show itself on the ball, but it's off the ball where we're really, really bad, and there's no substitute for athleticism.

On that note, I'd move on Van Dijk before I'd move on Gomez, unless there's a stupidly good offer for the latter. Keep the English core, if they're not ageing and especially if they can fit into multiple positions. Clear the way for overseas players.

Good point, I think the dortmund experience scarred him.  If we had finished this season on 78 points and finished 2nd or 3rd, we would have continued as we are, but this plane wreck of a season should be big enough to cause a course correction, however the news about pending contract renewals suggests otherwise

Offline LifelongRed,Sussex

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9603 on: Today at 12:30:30 am »
Kanchelskis was 26 when he left, ince 27, their leaving was more about Becks,butt and scholes coming thru, than Ferie having a strategy of selling people before they dip physically.  He didnt need to have such a strategy so didn't, in 2013 he had evra 32,  rio 34, giggs 39, carrick 31, vidic 31, scholes 38, fletcher 29, van persie 29, playing regular

I wish we had 26 and 27 year old midfielders in their prime.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9604 on: Today at 12:31:55 am »
The thing about Ferguson was not just ruthlessness getting rid of players (though he did that too) but continually strengthening when they were on top.

Win league in 92-93. Buys Roy Keane. Wins league. Buys Cole. He’s constantly doing that. Adding quality to quality and then letting them fight it out.

He was quick to get rid of players too. Goalkeepers are the most obvious example. He just keeps getting rid until he finds a good one. Compare and contrast that with Mignolet and Karius. He signs and gets rid of the likes of Dion Dublin, Poborsky, Forlan and Veron sometimes within a season of buying them.

He’s not sentimental about Yorke, Cole or Sheringham. They’re all gone by 02/03 season just a few season after they win him the treble.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9605 on: Today at 12:46:04 am »
The thing about Ferguson was not just ruthlessness getting rid of players (though he did that too) but continually strengthening when they were on top.

Win league in 92-93. Buys Roy Keane. Wins league. Buys Cole. He’s constantly doing that. Adding quality to quality and then letting them fight it out.

He was quick to get rid of players too. Goalkeepers are the most obvious example. He just keeps getting rid until he finds a good one. Compare and contrast that with Mignolet and Karius. He signs and gets rid of the likes of Dion Dublin, Poborsky, Forlan and Veron sometimes within a season of buying them.

He’s not sentimental about Yorke, Cole or Sheringham. They’re all gone by 02/03 season just a few season after they win him the treble.

But they were able to pluck whoever they wanted whenever they wanted from the other English teams. Rio Ferdinand, fucking Rooney, etc. He was an undeniably great manager, the c*nt, but he had a nearly endless list of advantages over everyone else, too. 
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Offline Samie

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9606 on: Today at 01:54:52 am »
We need powerful, athletic midfielders come the summer.  Our midfield is so shite these days we make average midfielders look like world class players.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9607 on: Today at 03:06:30 am »
The thing about Ferguson was not just ruthlessness getting rid of players (though he did that too) but continually strengthening when they were on top.

Win league in 92-93. Buys Roy Keane. Wins league. Buys Cole. He’s constantly doing that. Adding quality to quality and then letting them fight it out.

He was quick to get rid of players too. Goalkeepers are the most obvious example. He just keeps getting rid until he finds a good one. Compare and contrast that with Mignolet and Karius. He signs and gets rid of the likes of Dion Dublin, Poborsky, Forlan and Veron sometimes within a season of buying them.

He’s not sentimental about Yorke, Cole or Sheringham. They’re all gone by 02/03 season just a few season after they win him the treble.

Yeah but he'll never know what is like to defeat Guardiola. Klopp on the other hand, is very familiar with that feeling.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9608 on: Today at 07:08:28 am »
I think for all the obvious pointing out that we've offered players past their prime contracts that are far too big. We have to remember we seem to have a lot of players that have fallen a long way from their peak almost overnight. We were clamouring for ages for Salah to sign. Even though we all saw her want the same after afcon.
I'm sure there are several reasons why this has happened and it'll be different reasons for different players. But I don't think the contracts offered seemed as bad at the time as they do now.
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9609 on: Today at 07:30:17 am »
I think for all the obvious pointing out that we've offered players past their prime contracts that are far too big. We have to remember we seem to have a lot of players that have fallen a long way from their peak almost overnight. We were clamouring for ages for Salah to sign. Even though we all saw her want the same after afcon.
I'm sure there are several reasons why this has happened and it'll be different reasons for different players. But I don't think the contracts offered seemed as bad at the time as they do now.
Yep its all a bit hindsight.

But the issue is we seem to be making the mistake again. Just look at Bobby’s contract talks and it looking likely we sign him on for two years and again people breaking their backs to justify it being a good decision and how it will be a reduced contract.

It wont be a good decision and ill be amazed if he is earning less than £100k a week. Even now Klopp cant let his players leave.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9610 on: Today at 07:34:01 am »
Yep its all a bit hindsight.

But the issue is we seem to be making the mistake again. Just look at Bobby’s contract talks and it looking likely we sign him on for two years and again people breaking their backs to justify it being a good decision and how it will be a reduced contract.

It wont be a good decision and ill be amazed if he is earning less than £100k a week. Even now Klopp cant let his players leave.

Maybe he doesn't have faith in whoever's left in the recruitment team to get him someone better than Bobby for what he'd cost to retain
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9611 on: Today at 07:50:05 am »
Bob Paisley is a far better example of a manager knowing when to get rid of players than Alex Ferguson ever was. He only ever got one decision wrong. And by his own admittance that was Jimmy Case.
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Offline Knight

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9612 on: Today at 08:14:26 am »
Yep its all a bit hindsight.

But the issue is we seem to be making the mistake again. Just look at Bobby’s contract talks and it looking likely we sign him on for two years and again people breaking their backs to justify it being a good decision and how it will be a reduced contract.

It wont be a good decision and ill be amazed if he is earning less than £100k a week. Even now Klopp cant let his players leave.

The vitriol for Haggis, who questioned the contract in the Firmino thread, was one of the most bizarre things I've seen on this forum. We're witnessing, in real time, the perils of letting a squad get old, and yet we find it appalling that people would question the renewal of an ageing star who's clearly the other side of his peak?

Offline Bergersleftpeg

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9613 on: Today at 08:15:36 am »
But they were able to pluck whoever they wanted whenever they wanted from the other English teams. Rio Ferdinand, fucking Rooney, etc. He was an undeniably great manager, the c*nt, but he had a nearly endless list of advantages over everyone else, too.

I completely agree. They were miles ahead commercially so could bully teams. Even rivals. I think it’s telling that anytime a challenger got it together they took titles off Man Utd. I don’t think Ferguson was an especially great manager on the pitch. Tactically he was very weak.
« Last Edit: Today at 08:52:02 am by Bergersleftpeg »

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9614 on: Today at 08:31:03 am »
I think Klopp has learnt the wrong lessons from his past. He secured players so that Bayern can't poach them for nothing. However, there isn't a Bayern in our league, so there was no risk of that. Instead, we have FSG who work on the basis that having the wrong player is a greater opportunity cost than missing out on a player. We have too many players whom we haven't been able to move on, and FSG have not been willing to back down on their demands given the squad we have. We have to learn this particular lesson, which I was going on about some years ago. Move players on even if we think of them as untouchables, if they are physically declining. Class may be permanent, but physicality is not. Class can show itself on the ball, but it's off the ball where we're really, really bad, and there's no substitute for athleticism.

On that note, I'd move on Van Dijk before I'd move on Gomez, unless there's a stupidly good offer for the latter. Keep the English core, if they're not ageing and especially if they can fit into multiple positions. Clear the way for overseas players.

Good point. It will be genuinely hard to decide who to move on though because we have so much work to do in midfield and the backline looks shocking at the minute too.

I personally think Virgil is a big draw still in the football world, especially for fellow Dutch players or defenders.
Would keep him but protect his fitness, with heavy rotation. Joe Gomez needs to play lots of games in a 1st team, in a row, I would look to sell him as part of the rebuild.
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Offline Bergersleftpeg

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9615 on: Today at 08:53:41 am »
Yeah but he'll never know what is like to defeat Guardiola. Klopp on the other hand, is very familiar with that feeling.

Hahaha. Yes. That’s true.

Online markmywords

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9616 on: Today at 09:42:02 am »
I think for all the obvious pointing out that we've offered players past their prime contracts that are far too big. We have to remember we seem to have a lot of players that have fallen a long way from their peak almost overnight. We were clamouring for ages for Salah to sign. Even though we all saw her want the same after afcon.
I'm sure there are several reasons why this has happened and it'll be different reasons for different players. But I don't think the contracts offered seemed as bad at the time as they do now.

WHilst this is somewhat true, offering oxlade a contract extension, 18 months and 2/3 sub appearances after knee reconstruction surgery, especially when he still had 2 yrs left on current deal is very eccentric

But the fabinho one could be the worse, in late 2021, we didn't know his form would collapse, but we did know we had a team of players 29/30 and we needed to highlight the guys we wanted to keep into their 30's and the ones we didn't. And thus who you would sell or not renew to fund replacements.  You have to answer the important question, what will this guy offer once his legs start to go and Fabinho out of all our recent legends was the one it is harder to give a positive answer about.   He isn't presented as a leaders either, unlike some of the others, fabinho was all action, with OK technique,  He was also on 100k a week, meaning he would probably look to leave and have the most suitors with those wages.  All things being equal, I would have probably signed off on keeping Mo salah, a left footed wideman of his class is harder to replace well, whilst that might have been proven wrong,  but doubling Fabinho's money until he was 32 didn't make sense from our financial perspective at the time

Offline Sangria

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9617 on: Today at 09:43:15 am »
Good point. It will be genuinely hard to decide who to move on though because we have so much work to do in midfield and the backline looks shocking at the minute too.

I personally think Virgil is a big draw still in the football world, especially for fellow Dutch players or defenders.
Would keep him but protect his fitness, with heavy rotation. Joe Gomez needs to play lots of games in a 1st team, in a row, I would look to sell him as part of the rebuild.

I'd sell Van Dijk ahead of Gomez, barring a bizarre offer for the latter. Van Dijk is likely to be on considerably more than Gomez, is not English, and only plays in one position. Konate also plays LCB, so we already have a potential replacement. If we're to replace both, the more expensive and less versatile foreigner goes first. The homegrowns are effectively a free hit squadwise until we sort out the squad as a whole.
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9618 on: Today at 10:04:15 am »
Thiago Silva still playing at a high level for Chelsea at age 52 or whatever he is and we want to raise a debate about binning off Virgil.... really?

Don't tell me...he's another one that's done.. finished..same old boring lazy narrative
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9619 on: Today at 10:12:04 am »
Thiago Silva still playing at a high level for Chelsea at age 52 or whatever he is and we want to raise a debate about binning off Virgil.... really?

Don't tell me...he's another one that's done.. finished..same old boring lazy narrative

The "look how good Modric still is" "look how good Lewandowski still is" as an excuse for keeping all our old players earlier this season isn't looking too good right now. Though Virg will be fine for a while yet and actually think his performances have been underrated this season.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9620 on: Today at 10:22:57 am »
At what point does Bellingham fuck us off and go for a club not in freefall?

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9621 on: Today at 10:23:54 am »
At what point does Bellingham fuck us off and go for a club not in freefall?
Klopp signing on until 2026, us as the frontrunners for Bellingham- Hopefully they both know something we don’t.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9622 on: Today at 10:25:21 am »
At what point does Bellingham fuck us off and go for a club not in freefall?

He doesn't need to, he hasn't signed for us yet. In the next few months he will have City and Madrid after him if they are not already.

In terms of us, only a super optimist and Mac Red think we are getting Bellingham. The fact that we won't get him isn't an issue, more of the issue is that none of the people at the club should be able to spend a penny more on transfers until we get a structure in place. Nunez and Gakpo haven't looked great so we need to dial back a bit.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9623 on: Today at 10:26:35 am »
Klopp signing on until 2026, us as the frontrunners for Bellingham- Hopefully they both know something we don’t.

Klopp thought the Redbird investment would benefit Liverpool. Safe to say he seems to know as much as anyone.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9624 on: Today at 10:28:39 am »
Klopp thought the Redbird investment would benefit Liverpool. Safe to say he seems to know as much as anyone.
Not sure it’s as straightforward as that. Despite Jurgen’s loyalty to all around him, he’d surely be making noises by now if he’d been let down.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9625 on: Today at 10:33:04 am »
Not sure it’s as straightforward as that. Despite Jurgen’s loyalty to all around him, he’d surely be making noises by now if he’d been let down.

Thats us assuming he was being promised a sale or investment as part of signing a new contract. We need to possibly accept that Klopp is fundamentally ok with the way we have worked thus far and therefore ok with the way we intend to work going forward. As it stands it appears Klopp was the one who pushed for Gakpo and Nunez and he got them, to the level where the analytics department and the Sporting Director are fucking off.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9626 on: Today at 10:48:01 am »
The thing about Ferguson was not just ruthlessness getting rid of players (though he did that too) but continually strengthening when they were on top.

Win league in 92-93. Buys Roy Keane. Wins league. Buys Cole. He’s constantly doing that. Adding quality to quality and then letting them fight it out.

He was quick to get rid of players too. Goalkeepers are the most obvious example. He just keeps getting rid until he finds a good one. Compare and contrast that with Mignolet and Karius. He signs and gets rid of the likes of Dion Dublin, Poborsky, Forlan and Veron sometimes within a season of buying them.

He’s not sentimental about Yorke, Cole or Sheringham. They’re all gone by 02/03 season just a few season after they win him the treble.


I mean Roy Carroll was there for donkeys years. He kept ‘ruthlessly’ buying keepers because the ones he bought between Schmeichel and Van Der Saar were all pretty much shite for them.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9627 on: Today at 10:57:20 am »
Thats us assuming he was being promised a sale or investment as part of signing a new contract. We need to possibly accept that Klopp is fundamentally ok with the way we have worked thus far and therefore ok with the way we intend to work going forward. As it stands it appears Klopp was the one who pushed for Gakpo and Nunez and he got them, to the level where the analytics department and the Sporting Director are fucking off.
Possibly yes but I fail to believe that he doesn’t realise that massive investment is needed from this point forward.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9628 on: Today at 11:00:12 am »
Possibly yes but I fail to believe that he doesn’t realise that massive investment is needed from this point forward.

Dunno, doesn't feel thats something Klopp would insist on. Also things can change, look at how Gordon got moved.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9629 on: Today at 11:12:39 am »
I think we might sell Salah in the summer by the way. It's clear we aren't getting the funding we need for a rebuild, his levels have dropped a bit, he's been out for dinner with PSG's president and you'd imagine they'd spend big to take him to PSG. He wouldn't fetch as much as Coutinho, but his potential sale might be viewed as having a similar impact.

Also may explain why we've added Gakpo and are extending Firmino despite having lots of attacking options already. Maybe pre-emptive.
« Last Edit: Today at 11:21:07 am by Clint Eastwood »

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9630 on: Today at 11:15:11 am »
I think we might sell Salah in the summer by the way. It's clear we aren't getting the funding we need for a rebuild, his levels have dropped a bit, he's been out for dinner with PSG's president and you'd imagine they'd spend big to take him to PSG. He wouldn't fetch as much as Coutinho, but his potential sale might be viewed as having a similar impact.

Problem is who will we sign? With all respect giving the money to Ljinders and Klopp doesn't seem sensible what with their last 2 attacking signings.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9631 on: Today at 11:17:18 am »
I think we might sell Salah in the summer by the way. It's clear we aren't getting the funding we need for a rebuild, his levels have dropped a bit, he's been out for dinner with PSG's president and you'd imagine they'd spend big to take him to PSG. He wouldn't fetch as much as Coutinho, but his potential sale might be viewed as having a similar impact.

To be frank I doubt we get enough for him to touch the sides - probably get enough in to buy a replacement of sorts, which is probably better than Salah is this season, but not good enough for where we want to be.

We haven't got a huge amount to sell to fund the rebuild, I cluding Salah

Offline killer-heels

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9632 on: Today at 11:20:36 am »
To be frank I doubt we get enough for him to touch the sides - probably get enough in to buy a replacement of sorts, which is probably better than Salah is this season, but not good enough for where we want to be.

We haven't got a huge amount to sell to fund the rebuild, I cluding Salah

No, but we could take a fuck tonne off the wage bill. Firmino, Salah, Jota, Ox, Keita, Henderson, Thiago, Milner, Fabinho, Arthur, Matip, Trent, Robbo, Alisson, Van Dijk I think are the players earning 100k or more (in some cases significantly more) a week. How many of these are essential that we keep?
« Last Edit: Today at 11:25:56 am by killer-heels »

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023
« Reply #9633 on: Today at 11:22:53 am »
Depends on the rebuild. If we get our scouting and data team back together and focus on the Robbo-Gini-Sadio-Mo type of signings and not the VVD-Ali types, selling Mo and a couple others + freeing up of some of the wage bill should be just about enough.

Big if, though
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