Topic: Struggling with depression

[Red Beret]

You were doing so well, please don't give up on yourself, try to enjoy the small things in life step by step again, look at the things that you did in the last few months that got you feeling better at some point

Indeed yes.

So important not to be hard on yourself.  It's okay to relapse and have moments of despair and self doubt.  It's all part of the healing process.  You need to remember that you made changes and that they worked.  Go back as close you can to where you think you started veering off and just pick things up again from there.

We're all different and we're all fighting different battles, but there is always something to appreciate in every single day, even if it's only as simple as some falling rain.

[Mumm-Ra]

And get that fkn thing off your neck, primarily. All the best KS

[Son of Spion]

Got to the point where I have something round my neck and the only thing from stopping me is I'm too scared. Too scared of what will happen to my family, to my loved ones, but I just don't want to be here.

Just don't think there's any point and I don't know what to do. Sometimes I think that if I didn't have people to worry about, I'd be gone, but the reality is I'm too scared to do anything.

Sorry to hear about how you are feeling at the moment. I don't know your circumstances, but do you have any means of support with this? You do sound like you are in a dark place just now. Could your GP point you towards a local counselling service where you can at least talk things through? Just being able to vent your feelings can release some of the pressure. I know it's no cure-all, but at least you will have an outlet for your thoughts and feelings.

From what you've said, you certainly do have reasons to stick around. Those loved ones you mention. Although I can never know what it's like to be you, I also have been deeply suicidal on many occasions. Somehow, we can and do get through it. You can and will too, but if you need it, do try to access some support. Even if you just have to let some pressure out by talking to the Samaritans.

From what I gather, you have had dark times before. With this in mind it proves you can survive this current period because you've come through it in the past. Nothing lasts forever, not even these horribly dark times. You must have already developed some pretty useful coping strategies via your past experience, so maybe you could employ them again?

For what it's worth, I also wouldn't be alive and posting here today if it wasn't for having my loved ones. Having them has pulled me back from the brink plenty of times. I can't even count the amount of times I never wanted to be here. Even as a little boy I never felt I belonged and I never wanted to be alive. I know it can be difficult living life when you feel you don't even want to be here at all anyway.

These days, in my good periods, I try to make being here in this life worthwhile as much as I can. I try to do things I can enjoy or things I'm decent at doing. We have to fill the time we have here with as much positivity as we can. Make hay while the sun shines, so to speak. This dark period will pass, because everything does. Once you feel more able, maybe try to get back into doing things you enjoy and what fulfills you, so that when times go a bit dark again you still have pleasurable and rewarding things in your life.

I had to stop seeing relapse as the end of the world and, instead, learn to see it as par for the course. Part of the process, which goes with the territory. At least them I'm not so hard on myself when I don't feel so well. I always felt that I had to resist my bad times as though my life depended on it, but I've since learned to bend and flow with it more. It passes quicker that way. It's a bit like trees. If a tree was absolutely rigid it would snap in high winds then die. Trees bend with the breeze though, so they get to survive a lot longer that way.

I wish you well, and hope you are feeling better soon. You have already proved that you can bend, survive then carry on. I'm sure you will again.

Take care of yourself.

[Son of Spion]

Indeed yes.

So important not to be hard on yourself.  It's okay to relapse and have moments of despair and self doubt.  It's all part of the healing process.  You need to remember that you made changes and that they worked.  Go back as close you can to where you think you started veering off and just pick things up again from there.

We're all different and we're all fighting different battles, but there is always something to appreciate in every single day, even if it's only as simple as some falling rain.

I hope you are taking some of your own advice, mister.

How are you feeling since you posted recently?

[Son of Spion]

And get that fkn thing off your neck, primarily. All the best KS

As someone who has all the means to commit suicide in a box, I can understand Keita there.

Oddly enough, having what you feel is a viable exit route can, in fact, help keep you alive. It sounds counter-intuitive, but it makes a lot of sense in reality. My absolute lowest points in my life have been when I had no control or even influence over my life at all. I used to cut, because it released emotional pressure but it was also something I could have control over. Basically, rather than using it to end my life, it was a coping strategy which helped me survive longer. Knowing/feeling you have an 'out' can actually be one of the things that keeps you here. Despite that, I'd refrain from actually putting anything around my neck unless I was 100% certain I was going to use it, because accidents can happen.

[Red Beret]

I hope you are taking some of your own advice, mister.

How are you feeling since you posted recently?

I've been up and down mate.  The clue about Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder is in its name.

I sent off my latest ESA form yesterday (second one I've had to do this year!!) so once more it's a waiting game now.  Just filling the form out was literally painful.  Why is it that writing is so much more difficult than doodling?  I guess it's because doing block capitals means being steady and methodical lol.  In any case it wrecked my RSI and my arthritis and left me feeling pretty drained emotionally.  Hope I can recover enough to do circuit training tonight, but that's a half hour walk and it's currently pissing down.

Been three weeks without a valium though so I'm proud of myself for that.  Need some more CBD oil though!  Worst thing about a condition like mine is that, on the good days, you almost forget there's anything wrong with you.  Then a bad day hits and it's like a double whammy as you're brought back down to Earth!

Thanks for caring

[Son of Spion]

I've been up and down mate.  The clue about Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder is in its name.

I sent off my latest ESA form yesterday (second one I've had to do this year!!) so once more it's a waiting game now.  Just filling the form out was literally painful.  Why is it that writing is so much more difficult than doodling?  I guess it's because doing block capitals means being steady and methodical lol.  In any case it wrecked my RSI and my arthritis and left me feeling pretty drained emotionally.  Hope I can recover enough to do circuit training tonight, but that's a half hour walk and it's currently pissing down.

Been three weeks without a valium though so I'm proud of myself for that.  Need some more CBD oil though!  Worst thing about a condition like mine is that, on the good days, you almost forget there's anything wrong with you.  Then a bad day hits and it's like a double whammy as you're brought back down to Earth!

Thanks for caring

You're welcome. You always make me smile on here. You are clearly a decent guy and I always hope you will be ok.

I can sympathise regarding the ESA form filling. I've had to do plenty myself over the years. Just the letter popping through the letterbox can really rock your world and any sense of stability you may have painstakingly built up. It's also easy to feel under interrogation by a system that is looking to trip you up. I believe this new lot doing the assessments are more sympathetic than the ATOS scumbags were. I think a fair hearing is all people expect from them, so I sincerely hope you get one.

You may already have had this advice, and it's a real shame that people are forced to approach it this way, but I'd go online and check the descriptors for the assessment. As you no doubt know, it works on a points system. To keep your benefit you need to accrue the required number of points. It's designed to trip people up because they don't really know how to properly frame their replies both on the form and in the assessment itself. Once you know what the descriptors are you can still be honest, but frame your replies in a way that best gets your situation across. I'd link you to them but I'm not home now and only posting from my phone.

I don't envy you that walk tonight. I'm currently soaked through in town. 

I definitely know what you mean when you said about almost forgetting you have a problem on the good days. My life has been a long conflict between two mindsets. When I'm ok I can't even understand the person I am on my bad days. But on my bad days I don't recognise that guy who felt ok last week. When I'm in one mindset I can't for the life of me understand the other. Such is life, eh.

You'll get through this though, you know. Despite everything, you are still here, still battling through and succeeding at it, even if it doesn't feel like you are. We tend to be a lot stronger than we think we are. I've gone through more than my share of trauma and emotional / psychological issues and I no doubt always will do. I used to believe I was very weak, but one day I realised that despite everything, I was still here, still standing and still fighting on. That actually takes strength. As I said; we are often a lot stronger than we think we are.

I wish you the very best, as I do everyone on here who is struggling. Stick in there. As they say on the Harmony advert : You're worth it. 

[Red Beret]

You're welcome. You always make me smile on here. You are clearly a decent guy and I always hope you will be ok.

I can sympathise regarding the ESA form filling. I've had to do plenty myself over the years. Just the letter popping through the letterbox can really rock your world and any sense of stability you may have painstakingly built up. It's also easy to feel under interrogation by a system that is looking to trip you up. I believe this new lot doing the assessments are more sympathetic than the ATOS scumbags were. I think a fair hearing is all people expect from them, so I sincerely hope you get one.

You may already have had this advice, and it's a real shame that people are forced to approach it this way, but I'd go online and check the descriptors for the assessment. As you no doubt know, it works on a points system. To keep your benefit you need to accrue the required number of points. It's designed to trip people up because they don't really know how to properly frame their replies both on the form and in the assessment itself. Once you know what the descriptors are you can still be honest, but frame your replies in a way that best gets your situation across. I'd link you to them but I'm not home now and only posting from my phone.

I don't envy you that walk tonight. I'm currently soaked through in town. 

I definitely know what you mean when you said about almost forgetting you have a problem on the good days. My life has been a long conflict between two mindsets. When I'm ok I can't even understand the person I am on my bad days. But on my bad days I don't recognise that guy who felt ok last week. When I'm in one mindset I can't for the life of me understand the other. Such is life, eh.

You'll get through this though, you know. Despite everything, you are still here, still battling through and succeeding at it, even if it doesn't feel like you are. We tend to be a lot stronger than we think we are. I've gone through more than my share of trauma and emotional / psychological issues and I no doubt always will do. I used to believe I was very weak, but one day I realised that despite everything, I was still here, still standing and still fighting on. That actually takes strength. As I said; we are often a lot stronger than we think we are.

I wish you the very best, as I do everyone on here who is struggling. Stick in there. As they say on the Harmony advert : You're worth it. 

Thanks mate.  I've been on the sick now for 10 years, but this is the first time I think I've ever had to do two forms in a year.  I only had a face to face assessment back in January so it's really difficult not to freak out and imagine them spying on me.

I couldn't believe how physically difficult completing the form by myself was.  I've nearly always had somebody do it for me but I couldn't face booking an appointment at the CAB for a weeks' time and sitting around having the fucking thing glare at me.  I used the old form as a guide and tried to remember what I could from my writing degree.  Took me 3 hours on Tuesday night to get about an hours' work done (I was listening to a playlist that I would pause everytime I needed a break).  Even then I couldn't finish it at a single sitting and had to do the rest on Wednesday.  Then it costs over six quid to send it registers - as if I'd ever trust something that important to a stamped address envelope!!

My mood's been steadily declining all week, and the shitty weather hasn't helped.  Haven't left the house at all today and I'm feeling very weird and detached right now.  My hand is sore just from typing this.  Decided not to bother with circuit training, which makes me feel bad too because I want to get into some kind of healthy routine.  But the DWP loves to misinterpret attempts of therapeutic rehabilitation as signs of recovery and it's left me with no zest at all. 

I know it will pass, I just wish I could take a pass on the shit sandwich for once!

[RobbieRedman]

Got to the point where I have something round my neck and the only thing from stopping me is I'm too scared. Too scared of what will happen to my family, to my loved ones, but I just don't want to be here.

Just don't think there's any point and I don't know what to do. Sometimes I think that if I didn't have people to worry about, I'd be gone, but the reality is I'm too scared to do anything.

Let us know you're ok mate

Always welcome to PM for a chat, likewise for anyone here

[Son of Spion]

Thanks mate.  I've been on the sick now for 10 years, but this is the first time I think I've ever had to do two forms in a year.  I only had a face to face assessment back in January so it's really difficult not to freak out and imagine them spying on me.

I couldn't believe how physically difficult completing the form by myself was.  I've nearly always had somebody do it for me but I couldn't face booking an appointment at the CAB for a weeks' time and sitting around having the fucking thing glare at me.  I used the old form as a guide and tried to remember what I could from my writing degree.  Took me 3 hours on Tuesday night to get about an hours' work done (I was listening to a playlist that I would pause everytime I needed a break).  Even then I couldn't finish it at a single sitting and had to do the rest on Wednesday.  Then it costs over six quid to send it registers - as if I'd ever trust something that important to a stamped address envelope!!

My mood's been steadily declining all week, and the shitty weather hasn't helped.  Haven't left the house at all today and I'm feeling very weird and detached right now.  My hand is sore just from typing this.  Decided not to bother with circuit training, which makes me feel bad too because I want to get into some kind of healthy routine.  But the DWP loves to misinterpret attempts of therapeutic rehabilitation as signs of recovery and it's left me with no zest at all. 

I know it will pass, I just wish I could take a pass on the shit sandwich for once!

It's harsh having two forms and assessments in one year. I know it's difficult not to take it personally, but I believe the DWP choose the intervals, although I don't know on what criteria. I know some people have gone two or even three years between assessments, yet others have been called in more than once a year. I don't know if it's random selection of claimants or if it's based on anything in particular. I'd be sure to tell your assessor how stressful you are finding such frequent re-tests and how it impacts on the efforts you are trying to make to make progress, however tentative they may be. It may make no difference, but I'd make sure they note it.

I know full well how any attempts at therapeutic rehabilitation can be misinterpreted by them. ATOS stitched me up big time some years ago. I was doing a couple of hours voluntary counselling to both support others and assist my own recovery. The assessor told me she thought even that sounded too much for me ... then I was awarded zero points and put on JSA. To cut a long story short, it set me back years, destroyed all my progress and saw me sat in front of the mental health crisis team psychiatrist in Fazakerley. I was deeply suicidal and it was a very scary, dark time for me. The decision was eventually overturned on appeal and full ESA was restored with back pay.

There's no point anyone saying don't worry, because worry is natural in the circumstances. But I believe this new lot are more human than the ATOS lot were. Just gather as much evidence as you can and really get over to.them on the day the difficulties you face on a daily/weekly basis.

I wish you all the best with it.

Don't feel obligated to reply to this post. Give those hands a break.
Take care, mate.

[Red Beret]

^^ Thanks mate. Found your story frightening to be honest.  I receive PIP as well so get enhanced ESA, which makes me especially scared of losing it.  I won two appeals when I first got on ESA, so I think it's come to the point where they just try to bully or intimidate people off the benefit because they know they'll lose the appeal.

Like you say, getting one of these forms can set you back months, even years.  I moved home back in January and realised this would be a transition year, but I'm not being given any time to settle.

In any case I'm very glad you battled through and have shown yourself as an inspiration to myself and others on here facing similar struggles.  My thoughts are with you and everyone else here tonight.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

It's harsh having two forms and assessments in one year. I know it's difficult not to take it personally, but I believe the DWP choose the intervals, although I don't know on what criteria. I know some people have gone two or even three years between assessments, yet others have been called in more than once a year. I don't know if it's random selection of claimants or if it's based on anything in particular. I'd be sure to tell your assessor how stressful you are finding such frequent re-tests and how it impacts on the efforts you are trying to make to make progress, however tentative they may be. It may make no difference, but I'd make sure they note it.

I know full well how any attempts at therapeutic rehabilitation can be misinterpreted by them. ATOS stitched me up big time some years ago. I was doing a couple of hours voluntary counselling to both support others and assist my own recovery. The assessor told me she thought even that sounded too much for me ... then I was awarded zero points and put on JSA. To cut a long story short, it set me back years, destroyed all my progress and saw me sat in front of the mental health crisis team psychiatrist in Fazakerley. I was deeply suicidal and it was a very scary, dark time for me. The decision was eventually overturned on appeal and full ESA was restored with back pay.

There's no point anyone saying don't worry, because worry is natural in the circumstances. But I believe this new lot are more human than the ATOS lot were. Just gather as much evidence as you can and really get over to.them on the day the difficulties you face on a daily/weekly basis.

I wish you all the best with it.

Don't feel obligated to reply to this post. Give those hands a break.
Take care, mate.

The reassessment date is based on the recommendation of the Healthcare Professional who does the face-to-face assessment. It's very person/condition specific but in my experience 1 year recommendations are the most common. You might get 6 month recommendations if, for example, you are about to start some form of treatment (e.g. psychotherapy) that might significantly improve things or if you are currently dealing with a relapse but your condition history suggests that in the past you have recovered quickly and well from set-backs.

Think your advice is good - the only other suggestion I would make is that even if you get a positive outcome it is worth requesting a copy of the assessment report as this will tell you the reasons why the HCP found you not fit for work/work-related activity, so that in a subsequent assessment you know what the most important information is to get across.

Agree that Maximus seem to be a little bit better than ATOS were, although they are still making some really bizarre decisions, just not on such a regular/consistent basis.

[Son of Spion]

^^ Thanks mate. Found your story frightening to be honest.  I receive PIP as well so get enhanced ESA, which makes me especially scared of losing it.  I won two appeals when I first got on ESA, so I think it's come to the point where they just try to bully or intimidate people off the benefit because they know they'll lose the appeal.

Like you say, getting one of these forms can set you back months, even years.  I moved home back in January and realised this would be a transition year, but I'm not being given any time to settle.

In any case I'm very glad you battled through and have shown yourself as an inspiration to myself and others on here facing similar struggles.  My thoughts are with you and everyone else here tonight.

Thank you too. 

I realised when I posted that my story could be a little unsettling, but I wanted to post it because I don't want you to think I'm just spouting off stuff that I don't really know much about or have no experience of personally. It also helps show that anyone can be in a dark place they never think they can emerge from, but it is still possible to do so and move forward.

I appreciate your feeling that you might be getting bullied off benefits. I think a lot of people hold similar fears themselves. Sadly, many vulnerable people just don't feel up to fighting a very stressful system. I know a couple who were both on ESA for different, chronic conditions. One has the worst OCD I have come across and is also agoraphobic to the point where they cannot even get out to seek treatment and will not attend ESA assessments unless it is at their home. To cut a long story short, they both ended up coming off ESA rather than have to jump through the hoops they felt they were being forced to jump through to remain on it. To be honest, I don't know how they survive financially, and there is no way either can work again. All this was under ATOS, and not the current assessors, Maximus.

 * Oh, I just want to make clear that no one I mention on here in my accounts has ever been a client of mine for counselling. I need to make this point because it's important. *

Regarding your case, you give clear accounts on here of your difficulties, and it's important you document everything and get as much evidence as you can from GPs or mental health workers you have contact with. Maybe also arrange someone to go to the assessment with you if possible. I think I've mentioned this site before, but here is a link to the Benefits and Work website. They can have plenty of useful information on these matters.  https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

Anyway, it's clear you are a genuine case and not a blagger. Do all you can to fully articulate the gravity of your situation where possible so everything is taken into account. Try not to worry about my personal account. As I said, it was a fair while back now and under ATOS and not the current people. The ATOS woman I saw had no idea about mental health whatsoever and was only interested in getting me to walk or raise my arms above my head. I told her I was generally physically able and my issues were long-standing mental health, but she may as well have been the cleaner from the toilet block for all the use she was as an assessor of mental health and its affects on a person. Things are different now.

Thanks for the kind comments, and good luck with this. Keep us informed.

[Son of Spion]

The reassessment date is based on the recommendation of the Healthcare Professional who does the face-to-face assessment. It's very person/condition specific but in my experience 1 year recommendations are the most common. You might get 6 month recommendations if, for example, you are about to start some form of treatment (e.g. psychotherapy) that might significantly improve things or if you are currently dealing with a relapse but your condition history suggests that in the past you have recovered quickly and well from set-backs.

Think your advice is good - the only other suggestion I would make is that even if you get a positive outcome it is worth requesting a copy of the assessment report as this will tell you the reasons why the HCP found you not fit for work/work-related activity, so that in a subsequent assessment you know what the most important information is to get across.

Agree that Maximus seem to be a little bit better than ATOS were, although they are still making some really bizarre decisions, just not on such a regular/consistent basis.

Thank you for this post, it is really helpful. 

Don't feel obliged to answer if you'd rather not, but do you work in this field or have you gained this information from other sources? I only ask as if there is more in-depth info out there I can find it could be useful for me when helping other people regarding ESA.

Your advice on obtaining a copy of the report even in the event of a positive outcome was particularly useful because it's something I'd not thought of, so thanks again.

[Red Beret]

I told the assessor last time that I'd attended an induction with Talk Liverpool for inter personal therapy, but that I was still waiting for the therapy itself to start.  Based on what has been said in here, that might have affected their decision to call me back in again after six months - but I have still not started that therapy.

I did 18 months worth of Mentalisation Based Therapy up at Waterloo 2016-17 and to be honest I feel I've slipped back a bit since finishing it.  However I imagine that to be normal for a lot of people.  I did years of CBT and even some IPT prior to that but none of it ever took because I was out of my head on anti-depressants that gave me alcohol cravings.  I was hoping that another crack at IPT would be more beneficial to me now.

I honestly just want them to leave me the fuck alone.  I realise that I am very fortunate in that I can reasonably articulate just what I am going through.  There are people out there in far worse shape than I am who receive next to nothing and it's absolutely criminal to my mind.

I've pretty much given up trying to collate and gather evidence.  I tend to suffer from information overload; I can't absorb information the way I once did, as my short term memory is largely fucked (although better than it was several years ago).  Clicking links and trying to make sense of stuff turns my brain to clay and actually intimidates me.  Plus, since I moved GPs back in January there's no doctor really familiar with my condition.  But whenever I attend an assessment I always insist on having it recorded - oddly enough ever since I started doing that I've never had to appeal a decision.

As a side bar, I have some physical conditions (like my RSI and my arthritis) which, on a day to day basis, are relatively minor.  But I know I could never sit for 8 hours at a computer station the way I once did as it would destroy my right hand.  And when I'm stressed out, the nervous tics, hand tremors and stutter come out (most of these have only developed since 2015 after the trauma of dealing with my sociopath brother).  I think the anxiety affects my physical pains as well, which is why completing the form on my own was so difficult.

Appreciate everyone's support here.  Also, sending out positive thoughts to Keita Success.  I'm rooting for you and hope you manage to pull yourself out of this.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Thank you for this post, it is really helpful. 

Don't feel obliged to answer if you'd rather not, but do you work in this field or have you gained this information from other sources? I only ask as if there is more in-depth info out there I can find it could be useful for me when helping other people regarding ESA.

Your advice on obtaining a copy of the report even in the event of a positive outcome was particularly useful because it's something I'd not thought of, so thanks again.

Work in the field. In terms of resources the Rightsnet forum has some interesting stuff on it and you don't need to be a member to browse. 'wcainfo' and 'pipinfo' are also accessible online resources concerning ESA and PIP assessments respectively.

[Son of Spion]

Work in the field. In terms of resources the Rightsnet forum has some interesting stuff on it and you don't need to be a member to browse. 'wcainfo' and 'pipinfo' are also accessible online resources concerning ESA and PIP assessments respectively.

Thanks Sammy. Appreciated!

[AlphaDelta]

I found myself ringing the Samaritans last night which quite frankly has shocked me. My mum passed away suddenly in February and I lived at home with her and had such a close relationship (single parent/only son).
Since it happened I've had a rollercoaster year, been through the stress of asking the housing association if I could remain in the house, to buying it, getting a mortgage and a few holidays in between.

Aside from grieving for my mum, I've had to learn how to cook, clean and use a washing machine for myself which I have adapted to. What is tough, is I used to come home from work to a nice warm house that was happy, full of life and a hot meal ready for me, now though I am coming home to a dark house, with washing and cleaning to do after a full day in work.

I've been up and down grief wise, I actually thought I was doing ok to be honest, but then I find myself getting emotional randomly when I think about my mum.

I guess whats really affected me is I had a phobia of dentists which I got over after 15 years, so when one of my front teeth broke on the first day of a recent holiday I was annoyed but not stressed. My dentist said they could take out the old one easily and replace it with a partial denture.
Last week though I went to the dentist and they pretty much couldnt get it out, she pushed and pulled on my tooth for a good 30 minutes and got some of it out but not all.
Now I have a partial denture at 41, which makes talking and eating horrendous and have to wait for slot with the NHS to get sedated to get the rest of the old tooth out.

It just seems like one step forward, two steps back. I'm a worrier at the best of times and now all I can think of is, talking and eating wont be the same again and I am still trying to cope with the loss of my mum.

In reality everyone who has had a partial denture has said it takes time to adapt to it, but you know the score, small things sometimes become massive issues.

[Son of Spion]

...

Hi mate,

You said that you thought you were doing ok, but I think the reality is that considering what you have gone through, and continue to go through, you are doing ok.

Getting emotional from time to time is absolutely normal and quite healthy given the circumstances, because it's an outlet for your grief. I remember when you lost your mum, and I remember you telling us how close you were to her. Mate, you are in the process of adapting to life-changing circumstances. This is not easy. As you said, the house that was once warm and full of the light your mum brought into your life, now feels cold and dark. All that is bound to get to you.

I do hope your call to the Samaritans was helpful in some way. In the past I called them a number of times. One night I was on until dawn and, in all honesty, just having that one person to talk to saved my life that night. Quite often, we sit alone with our pain and grief, but I believe that reaching out for support can be useful and helpful. I hope it was helpful for you too.

In itself, loss and the grief that follows means an awful lot of adjusting, adapting and very uncomfortable change. For you, though, there was the added upheaval of trying to keep the family roof over your head too. Almost another loss there for you to deal with, and no end of worry. What I'm saying is your world has taken a direct tactical nuke, and the fall-out from that takes a lot of time to settle and be processed. You are still in the process of working your way through it and coming to terms with things. In short, it's no surprise that you feel like you currently do.

I'm sure the tooth is a small issue in the scheme of what you are dealing with, but when you are down, small things can feel massive. The old story tells us it wasn't the weight of the world that broke the camel's back. What saw him off was the final, tiny straw. My point being that when you are feeling vulnerable, even the tiny things can get to you. Mind you, I'd be upset at the loss of a front tooth too, especially with the complications you've had. I was gutted some years ago when I lost two teeth to abscess and was left with a gap, and that's not even in the front. Personally, I'd be asking the dentist about getting a bridge made if I were in your position, as they are permanent. If you pay for your treatment on the NHS a bridge will cost you around £269.30, which is pricey, but maybe well worth paying.

I can't even imagine how I'd have coped in your situation over this past year. You've had to deal with so much, but you are dealing with it, you are coping and you are adapting, and probably a lot better than you give yourself credit for. If you feel you do need extra support though, I'd definitely use the Samaritans again if it helps, and maybe look to get yourself some counselling sessions. Just having an outlet for your feelings and emotions can help you process them a little easier.

Take care of yourself. I wish you all the very best.

[AlphaDelta]

Hi mate,

You said that you thought you were doing ok, but I think the reality is that considering what you have gone through, and continue to go through, you are doing ok.

Getting emotional from time to time is absolutely normal and quite healthy given the circumstances, because it's an outlet for your grief. I remember when you lost your mum, and I remember you telling us how close you were to her. Mate, you are in the process of adapting to life-changing circumstances. This is not easy. As you said, the house that was once warm and full of the light your mum brought into your life, now feels cold and dark. All that is bound to get to you.

I do hope your call to the Samaritans was helpful in some way. In the past I called them a number of times. One night I was on until dawn and, in all honesty, just having that one person to talk to saved my life that night. Quite often, we sit alone with our pain and grief, but I believe that reaching out for support can be useful and helpful. I hope it was helpful for you too.

In itself, loss and the grief that follows means an awful lot of adjusting, adapting and very uncomfortable change. For you, though, there was the added upheaval of trying to keep the family roof over your head too. Almost another loss there for you to deal with, and no end of worry. What I'm saying is your world has taken a direct tactical nuke, and the fall-out from that takes a lot of time to settle and be processed. You are still in the process of working your way through it and coming to terms with things. In short, it's no surprise that you feel like you currently do.

I'm sure the tooth is a small issue in the scheme of what you are dealing with, but when you are down, small things can feel massive. The old story tells us it wasn't the weight of the world that broke the camel's back. What saw him off was the final, tiny straw. My point being that when you are feeling vulnerable, even the tiny things can get to you. Mind you, I'd be upset at the loss of a front tooth too, especially with the complications you've had. I was gutted some years ago when I lost two teeth to abscess and was left with a gap, and that's not even in the front. Personally, I'd be asking the dentist about getting a bridge made if I were in your position, as they are permanent. If you pay for your treatment on the NHS a bridge will cost you around £269.30, which is pricey, but maybe well worth paying.

I can't even imagine how I'd have coped in your situation over this past year. You've had to deal with so much, but you are dealing with it, you are coping and you are adapting, and probably a lot better than you give yourself credit for. If you feel you do need extra support though, I'd definitely use the Samaritans again if it helps, and maybe look to get yourself some counselling sessions. Just having an outlet for your feelings and emotions can help you process them a little easier.

Take care of yourself. I wish you all the very best.

Mate, that post has really given me such a lift and kind of put things into perspective. My trouble to a degree is I try to process things like work, I like to know timescales, what will happen, how long and stuff like that. With grieving I've been told many times by my mates that I am doing so well, but there is no rulebook on how to grieve for someone so close.

I think I said at the time, people were saying to me, "you're in shock", but that annoyed me cos I knew I wasn't, I was just coping in my own way. I defo reckon I don't give myself enough credit, I had a good chat with a doctor a few months back (over something different) and he said I am dealing with events that one person deals with over a lifetime, but mine is within a matter of months, in other words 'go easy on yourself'.

As for my gnasher, defo gonna try for a bridge, I'll see what they say when I go in this week for a follow up.

Genuinely though mate, thank you so much for taking the time and effort to reply, its more than appreciated.

[Son of Spion]

Mate, that post has really given me such a lift and kind of put things into perspective. My trouble to a degree is I try to process things like work, I like to know timescales, what will happen, how long and stuff like that. With grieving I've been told many times by my mates that I am doing so well, but there is no rulebook on how to grieve for someone so close.

I think I said at the time, people were saying to me, "you're in shock", but that annoyed me cos I knew I wasn't, I was just coping in my own way. I defo reckon I don't give myself enough credit, I had a good chat with a doctor a few months back (over something different) and he said I am dealing with events that one person deals with over a lifetime, but mine is within a matter of months, in other words 'go easy on yourself'.

As for my gnasher, defo gonna try for a bridge, I'll see what they say when I go in this week for a follow up.

Genuinely though mate, thank you so much for taking the time and effort to reply, its more than appreciated.

Hi mate,

I'm glad the post was useful. 

I think you hit the nail on the head regarding grief and how we deal with it. Us human beings generally need order, certainty and timescales because they can help us feel stable, secure and comfortable. Thing is, it's incredibly difficult, maybe impossible, to find order, certainty etc in chaos. As you are painfully aware, bereavement can turn your entire world as you've always known it upside down then break it into thousands of pieces. To be honest, I often find that trying to find order within chaos just adds frustration top the mix.

I agree with your mates, there is no rule book on grieving. There are, in theory, stages of grief, but no clear route through it that applies equally to everyone. We negotiate it in our own way. I find that it comes in waves. Sometimes triggered by memories, a photo, as song etc or sometimes out of the blue. Sometimes also when we are at a low anyway. When I lost my partner's dad then my own dad within the space of a few weeks in 2017 I could smell and even taste the grief. I also felt it from my rib cage to my knees like a giant ache within me. Because of my training I managed to, for the most part, let the grief come and go at its own accord without trying to fight against it or block it out. Attempting to deny it or block it out takes up more emotional energy, can be destructive and generally prolongs the pain of the process anyway. Although the grief process is incredibly painful, there is no short-cut around it. Having said that, being willing to go through the process and let it run its course can shorten it.

All I would say is, if you find yourself (quite naturally) trying to find order in the chaos, try to recognise the futility of doing so. When a bomb goes off in your life the fall-out will eventually settle, but you cannot force it. A new order will eventually form. Your doctor is right; try to go easy on yourself if you can. Life-changing circumstances take time to work through and come to terms with. There will always be good days and bad days along the way, but as far as the process goes, you sound like you are doing really well, although I'm sure it feels rather different to you currently. I look back over my double loss in a few weeks and wonder how on earth I got through it. I still don't really know either. Sometimes, though,  we are a lot stronger and far more adaptable than we ever thought possible. sometime in the future I suspect you will look back and realise just how well you've actually done here.


I do hope you get the gnasher sorted. Hopefully a bridge will be suitable. I had a gap years ago due to still having a milk tooth where an adult tooth should have grown. When that came out they put a bridge in. They say they last around a decade before maybe needing to be replaced, but mine lasted much longer than that before the porcelain on one of the fronts broke off and they replaced the whole thing. The fact they are permanent gives you a lot more confidence than having a denture, I think.

Anyway, as always, take care of yourself. I wish you all the best.

[reddebs]

This may seem like a very simplistic suggestion to helping with the dark empty house and home cooked food but get some timers for your lights and something like a slow cooker or learn how to set the timer on the oven.

It'll never replace coming home to your Mum but it'll feel a bit more welcoming, especially at his time of year.

[AlphaDelta]

This may seem like a very simplistic suggestion to helping with the dark empty house and home cooked food but get some timers for your lights and something like a slow cooker or learn how to set the timer on the oven.

It'll never replace coming home to your Mum but it'll feel a bit more welcoming, especially at his time of year.

Cheers pal, thats a great idea, one of my friends has just bought me an Alexa which she tells me can turn on your lights so that will make a big difference, nice one.

[reddebs]

Cheers pal, thats a great idea, one of my friends has just bought me an Alexa which she tells me can turn on your lights so that will make a big difference, nice one.

It will yes and it could well do the oven too but don't take that as gospel.



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[Red Beret]

There are some amazing people on here. 

[AlphaDelta]

There are some amazing people on here. 

There really is. I was on the phone to my mate down south earlier who is also going through a rough patch, told him all about this site and the good eggs who are on it.

[AndyMuller]

Lost my grandad and dog the past month. Feeling it heavily.

[Son of Spion]

Lost my grandad and dog the past month. Feeling it heavily.

I'm really sorry to hear that, mate. 

My Grandad was my first close bereavement and it floored me. Same when I lost my terrier in 2015. Hurts like hell and I still feel it now, so I can definitely sympathise.

Sorry for both your loses.

Take care of yourself. I hope you have people around you who can offer some support at this sad time.

[AndyMuller]

I'm really sorry to hear that, mate. 

My Grandad was my first close bereavement and it floored me. Same when I lost my terrier in 2015. Hurts like hell and I still feel it now, so I can definitely sympathise.

Sorry for both your loses.

Take care of yourself. I hope you have people around you who can offer some support at this sad time.

Thanks a lot mate I appreciate it and thanks for offering great advice and the kind words in this thread in general mate.

[AndyMuller]

Really struggling with the loss of my dog at the moment. I’ve had pains in my chest come and go ever since and non stop crying. It feels like one of the biggest losses I’ve ever experienced.

I didn’t even get the chance to say goodbye to her. The last time I seen her was the night before when I took her the 24 hour vets and she was not good at all. I went to work the day after but she was already out of our house and in my girlfriends mums and my girlfriend took her to her normal vets and that was it. Absolutely killing me knowing I wasn’t there.

[reddebs]

Really struggling with the loss of my dog at the moment. I’ve had pains in my chest come and go ever since and non stop crying. It feels like one of the biggest losses I’ve ever experienced.

I didn’t even get the chance to say goodbye to her. The last time I seen her was the night before when I took her the 24 hour vets and she was not good at all. I went to work the day after but she was already out of our house and in my girlfriends mums and my girlfriend took her to her normal vets and that was it. Absolutely killing me knowing I wasn’t there.

Really sorry to hear that Andy, I know exactly those feelings when I lost my Zak 11yrs ago.  The only difference was I was with him and was able to say goodbye so I cant imagine how bad that must be.

I have no advice on how you start overcoming your grief, I only know that I had to have something to give all my love to again.  I just knew I'd never recover without another dog.

Oscar never replaced Zak but he allowed my heart to heal and then sealed his own special place next to him. 

Our pets give us irreplaceable memories that knowing you'll never enjoy or experience again tears you apart.  I still miss them both terribly and I'm blubbing like a baby right now remembering them.

There is no right or wrong way to start your healing process mate, there's just your way.



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[AndyMuller]

Really sorry to hear that Andy, I know exactly those feelings when I lost my Zak 11yrs ago.  The only difference was I was with him and was able to say goodbye so I cant imagine how bad that must be.

I have no advice on how you start overcoming your grief, I only know that I had to have something to give all my love to again.  I just knew I'd never recover without another dog.

Oscar never replaced Zak but he allowed my heart to heal and then sealed his own special place next to him. 

Our pets give us irreplaceable memories that knowing you'll never enjoy or experience again tears you apart.  I still miss them both terribly and I'm blubbing like a baby right now remembering them.

There is no right or wrong way to start your healing process mate, there's just your way.



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Thanks a lot debs and I am sorry to hear about Zak and Oscar.

Me and my girlfriend just laid in bed this morning going through old photos of her and reminiscing. You tend to forget the good times when your going through the worst time but it was nice to remember them she was such a lovely caring dog.

[reddebs]

Thanks a lot debs and I am sorry to hear about Zak and Oscar.

Me and my girlfriend just laid in bed this morning going through old photos of her and reminiscing. You tend to forget the good times when your going through the worst time but it was nice to remember them she was such a lovely caring dog.

They do some crazy things that make them so unique yet those quirky things are really their norm. 

Those are definitely the things you remember with a smile as it's who they are. 

Reminiscing as you have this morning is the way to go, even if its upsetting, it helps you through the process so don't not let yourself get upset. 



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[Son of Spion]

Really struggling with the loss of my dog at the moment. I’ve had pains in my chest come and go ever since and non stop crying. It feels like one of the biggest losses I’ve ever experienced.

I didn’t even get the chance to say goodbye to her. The last time I seen her was the night before when I took her the 24 hour vets and she was not good at all. I went to work the day after but she was already out of our house and in my girlfriends mums and my girlfriend took her to her normal vets and that was it. Absolutely killing me knowing I wasn’t there.

I really do sympathise. When we lost our boy in 2015 it ripped my partner and I to shreds. The pain was indescribable. I got up one morning and he wasn't well. Just out of the blue. I drove him to the vet, took him in, and he was rushed into the vet's room. I never saw him alive again. The vet broke the news and I was distraught. He was our son, our kid, as we don't have children. I still can't adequately describe the depth of the pain we felt then, and for a long time afterwards.

Many people do not understand that the loss of a beloved pet can affect a person just as deeply as any other bereavement in life. All I can say to you is to try, if you can, to roll with it rather than try to block it out or fight it. The depth of the pain you are feeling now is a reflection of the depth of love you had, and still have, for your dog. It's sort of the price we pay for loving and caring so deep, but it's a price worth paying because of the beautiful life and times we had with them while they were here.

As we all know, grief is probably the most horrible feeling a human being can go through but, somehow, we do get through it. We all have to find our own individual way through the process and we get there in our own time, but one thing that definitely helps us through it quicker is the willingness to have and express our grief rather than fight against it.

If you need space, find some. If you need to cry, then cry. If you need to pull the duvet over your head one morning and sleep, if you can, do so. Listen to your body, give yourself time, some patience and the space to go through this deeply painful but also perfectly natural healing process. I guarantee you that at some point you will feel ok again. The loss is always there of course, but the pain itself will be replaced by all those wonderful, happy memories.

By the sounds of things, you gave your lovely girl a fantastic life full of love. You couldn't have done any more than that. Yes, you were lucky to have her, but she was lucky to have you too.

Give yourself time and space to grieve her, and take care of yourself.

[AndyMuller]

I really do sympathise. When we lost our boy in 2015 it ripped my partner and I to shreds. The pain was indescribable. I got up one morning and he wasn't well. Just out of the blue. I drove him to the vet, took him in, and he was rushed into the vet's room. I never saw him alive again. The vet broke the news and I was distraught. He was our son, our kid, as we don't have children. I still can't adequately describe the depth of the pain we felt then, and for a long time afterwards.

Many people do not understand that the loss of a beloved pet can affect a person just as deeply as any other bereavement in life. All I can say to you is to try, if you can, to roll with it rather than try to block it out or fight it. The depth of the pain you are feeling now is a reflection of the depth of love you had, and still have, for your dog. It's sort of the price we pay for loving and caring so deep, but it's a price worth paying because of the beautiful life and times we had with them while they were here.

As we all know, grief is probably the most horrible feeling a human being can go through but, somehow, we do get through it. We all have to find our own individual way through the process and we get there in our own time, but one thing that definitely helps us through it quicker is the willingness to have and express our grief rather than fight against it.

If you need space, find some. If you need to cry, then cry. If you need to pull the duvet over your head one morning and sleep, if you can, do so. Listen to your body, give yourself time, some patience and the space to go through this deeply painful but also perfectly natural healing process. I guarantee you that at some point you will feel ok again. The loss is always there of course, but the pain itself will be replaced by all those wonderful, happy memories.

By the sounds of things, you gave your lovely girl a fantastic life full of love. You couldn't have done any more than that. Yes, you were lucky to have her, but she was lucky to have you too.

Give yourself time and space to grieve her, and take care of yourself.

Mate I am so sorry to hear about what happened with your lad in 2015, that must have been really traumatic and I hope your in a better place now.

Thanks a lot for your kind words once again mate, they truly mean a lot and have put things into perspective.

[Son of Spion]

Mate I am so sorry to hear about what happened with your lad in 2015, that must have been really traumatic and I hope your in a better place now.

Thanks a lot for your kind words once again mate, they truly mean a lot and have put things into perspective.

Thank you.

We have another little guy who we adopted after his owner died. He got on so well with our little fella before he died. He was 15 a few weeks ago and slowing down so much now. Currently curled up, fast asleep in his bed. We both dread losing him too. The price of love, eh.

Take care, mate. All the best to you.

[LiverLuke]

after a bit of advice if anyone has experienced anything similar guys, not quite depression but i was suffering with bad anxiety after my partner was diagnosed with breast cancer. My doctor prescribed me Sertaline 50mg which I have been on for 6 weeks. My anxiety has definitely improved and it has taken the edge off however despite being 6 weeks in i'm getting rough side effects still, the main one being feeling very spaced out, almost "high" and not quite in the room. It makes me feel giddy and very hard to function properly when driving or out and about etc and will struggle to go back to work if it doesn't cease. So i'm in a quandary whether to change tablets and start all over again and risk the anxiety coming back or stick with Sertraline in the hope the side effects will wear off. Just wondering if anyone has experienced similar problems with Sertraline or other anti-depressants?

[rob1966]

after a bit of advice if anyone has experienced anything similar guys, not quite depression but i was suffering with bad anxiety after my partner was diagnosed with breast cancer. My doctor prescribed me Sertaline 50mg which I have been on for 6 weeks. My anxiety has definitely improved and it has taken the edge off however despite being 6 weeks in i'm getting rough side effects still, the main one being feeling very spaced out, almost "high" and not quite in the room. It makes me feel giddy and very hard to function properly when driving or out and about etc and will struggle to go back to work if it doesn't cease. So i'm in a quandary whether to change tablets and start all over again and risk the anxiety coming back or stick with Sertraline in the hope the side effects will wear off. Just wondering if anyone has experienced similar problems with Sertraline or other anti-depressants?

I was taken off prozac and put on sertraline as it wasn't working. I didn't get the same side effects as you, I just felt tired all the time. Eventually the side affects did wear off. I'd recommend going to see your GP again and disussing whether changing meds is best for you.

I'm coming off my sertraline now and the withdrawal is bloody tough.

[LiverLuke]

I was taken off prozac and put on sertraline as it wasn't working. I didn't get the same side effects as you, I just felt tired all the time. Eventually the side affects did wear off. I'd recommend going to see your GP again and disussing whether changing meds is best for you.

I'm coming off my sertraline now and the withdrawal is bloody tough.

thanks mate, how long did it take for your side effects to wear off? seems like the doctor is pretty much leaving it for me to decide to change or not.

[rob1966]

thanks mate, how long did it take for your side effects to wear off? seems like the doctor is pretty much leaving it for me to decide to change or not.

Good 8 to 10 weeks. I stuck with it due to how much better I was feeling.

Sertraline work by sorting anxiety out, so I'd be inclined to stay with them and see how it goes for another month or so.