Topic: Lawless Liverpool?

[Rhi]

Just seen an update and Everton contacted him and are helping him get it sorted.

Banner: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFI5B7lX0AYm_fk?format=jpg&name=900x900

Tweet thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterJMacca/status/1464295536828334083

[jillcwhomever]

Just seen an update and Everton contacted him and are helping him get it sorted.

Banner: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFI5B7lX0AYm_fk?format=jpg&name=900x900

Tweet thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterJMacca/status/1464295536828334083

I love that bold and too the point.

[Red Beret]

I had a sheltered upbringing.  No way my parents would have let me go into town at that time, even with mates. I was usually in bed by about 9.30 on a school night at that age.

But I realise that was just me, and I might not be typical for the 80s. At the end of the day she was just a kid, and the manner of her death was brutal and savage.  She was perfectly entitled to be there and she shouldn't be dead.

[moondog]

Some coked up knobhead kicking off at Sandhills trying to get on the soccer bus without a ticket and holding up the bus cos the driver wouldn’t let him on without one. Proper nasty beaut started threatening the driver, and finally stepped off when the passengers told him to fuck off. Then he offered to get his blade out and “fxxxing stab” a middle aged lady and fight a 17 year old lad for looking at him sideways. Prick needed a good tazering. Abused two drivers threatened to follow the bus to Anfield and smash it up and giving shit to all kinds of passengers. Before getting off when the driver calls the police on him . I hope the Corona drinking muppet got walloped by someone along his journey today and never got into the ground. Can do without this kind of idiot following our team, who says they’ll get their knife out and ‘show who’s boss’ to some nice lady just wanting to get to the game.

[Indomitable_Carp]

Maybe is the reason I don't go on the 'comment sections on social media' and if someone said some shite like that in the workplace then I'd pull them up on it/report them to HR.

It´s not always being done in such an out-and-out way though. There is a lot of more seemingly innocuous comments such as "poor girl should have been all nice and tucked up in bed - not on the recieveing end of a stabbing". Not victim blaming out and out but still the undertones are there

Even more ridiculous as here in Spain you get actual 5 year olds playing out in plazas until 1am, with minimal supervision other then a parent or parents mate drinking away in a nearby bar. They don´t end up stabbed though.

It´s only on leaving the UK to another culture that I have really noticed how prevailent and occassionally oppressive the constant social judgement in the UK can be. Of course other cultures have their own issues....

[rob1966]

It´s not always being done in such an out-and-out way though. There is a lot of more seemingly innocuous comments such as "poor girl should have been all nice and tucked up in bed - not on the recieveing end of a stabbing". Not victim blaming out and out but still the undertones are there

Even more ridiculous as here in Spain you get actual 5 year olds playing out in plazas until 1am, with minimal supervision other then a parent or parents mate drinking away in a nearby bar. They don´t end up stabbed though.

It´s only on leaving the UK to another culture that I have really noticed how prevailent and occassionally oppressive the constant social judgement in the UK can be. Of course other cultures have their own issues....

The real issue is why were these fucking little rats in town? Why were they carrying knives and why do the little fuckers think it's OK to stab someone?

However, it's hard as a parent of younger kids in these times though to not question why she was in town, even though she should have been able to be. I'd have quite happily gone to town as a kid, you might get a couple of belts off some knobheads occasionally, but mainly it was safe. There is no way I'd let my lads go into Manchester and its nothing to do with them, its the fucking feral little bastards these days carrying knives. You can't smother your kids, you can't keep them locked up, but you also want to keep them safe, as you know what's out there.

[The G in Gerrard]

RIP. Awful news.

See Sky saying a 14 year old has been remanded in secure location after being charged. 14...... Staggering.

[Indomitable_Carp]

The real issue is why were these fucking little rats in town? Why were they carrying knives and why do the little fuckers think it's OK to stab someone?

Yep that is definitely the real and only issue here!!!

However, it's hard as a parent of younger kids in these times though to not question why she was in town, even though she should have been able to be. I'd have quite happily gone to town as a kid, you might get a couple of belts off some knobheads occasionally, but mainly it was safe. There is no way I'd let my lads go into Manchester and its nothing to do with them, its the fucking feral little bastards these days carrying knives. You can't smother your kids, you can't keep them locked up, but you also want to keep them safe, as you know what's out there.

That I can understand. I´m not a parent so I can only imagine how the mindset changes.

That said, a 12 year old girl should be able to go the middle of a very busy town at 20:30 (which isn´t even that late) to watch the Christmas Lights without something this horrendous happening.

I´m not sure about 12 years old, but definitely by 13 I had free reign to go into town with my mates where my parents didn´t really know what I was up to, and had to put their faith in me (and the General Public!). The one time I did come home with a battered and bruised face (I was either 13 or 14) I claimed "I fell up some stairs". That wasn´t me scrapping by the way - I just got battered completely unprovoked.

[rob1966]

Yep that is definitely the real and only issue here!!!


That I can understand. I´m not a parent so I can only imagine how the mindset changes.

That said, a 12 year old girl should be able to go the middle of a very busy town at 20:30 (which isn´t even that late) to watch the Christmas Lights without something this horrendous happening.

I´m not sure about 12 years old, but definitely by 13 I had free reign to go into town with my mates where my parents didn´t really know what I was up to, and had to put their faith in me (and the General Public!). The one time I did come home with a battered and bruised face (I was either 13 or 14) I claimed "I fell up some stairs". That wasn´t me scrapping by the way - I just got battered completely unprovoked.

When you become a parent, everything changes and its not for the better.

I started going in the Kop when I was 12, I'd go the game on my own and walk through Stanley Park, we'd also go into town for Star Wars stuff or just to wander about, we'd disappear for hours, playing in the woods or down by the canal. I encourage the kids to go out, but I do worry. Its mainly about crossing the roads with the youngest, the older one at 11 was going for long bike rides and to the Trafford Centre, but you feel they are safe there. Its night time when the rats are out you'd worry most, but mine don't want to go out of a night.

[So… Howard Philips]

'


Yep, i started going a lot further than Liverpool when i was 12, but felt safe even in some dodgy areas, nowadays though kids are using knives without giving a second thought or fear of the consequences to there actions.

 The criminal justice system is a joke in the UK, if the 14 year old is convicted he'll be out of the nick by the time he's 30, what sort of sentence is that, should be life, meaning life.

30? I bet he'll be out in his early 20s.

It won't be long before the campaign starts to show he's really the victim.

[Statto Red]

30? I bet he'll be out in his early 20s.

It won't be long before the campaign starts to show he's really the victim.

Haa, yep, guarantee they'll be someone making excuses for the c*nt.

[VVM]

Do these kids not understand the consequences of carrying and using a knife? I mean presumably they obviously don't or they wouldn't do it but even at that age you've got to be aware to the fact that if you stab and kill someone, not only do you have to live your life with that guilt but you're also going to be spending the best part of it locked up behind bars. They're actual kids too, what could it even have been over?! Cannot get my head around it one bit.

[So… Howard Philips]

Do these kids not understand the consequences of carrying and using a knife? I mean presumably they obviously don't or they wouldn't do it but even at that age you've got to be aware to the fact that if you stab and kill someone, not only do you have to live your life with that guilt but you're also going to be spending the best part of it locked up behind bars. They're actual kids too, what could it even have been over?! Cannot get my head around it one bit.

Young lads try to chat up girls. Girls laugh and call them a bunch of meffs. Young lads walk away muttering that they didn't fancy them anyway.

Well that's what should happen.

[TSC]

Heartbreaking, young 12 year old off to town for lights switch on prob full of the excitement of Xmas, only to lose her life for no reason.  Leaving the family to try and cope.  Awful.

[Only Me]

Properly awful and sickening story that.

I went to junior school about 400 yards from where that happened. I remember in about 1975 a lad in the year below me came to school with a knife.

So he'd have been 9-10 years old.

He was a bit of a scal, from a rough old family, but so were most in our very poor inner city school.

Anyhow, he got caught with the knife, and we all got called to a special assembly, where the whole school was forced to watch as our [usually really nice and funny] headmaster beat the fucking shit out of him for about ten full minutes.

Honestly, its something I'll never forget - I can still picture the scene perfectly, nearly 50 years later. The lad's crying and screaming was unmerciful.

Daft twat never brought a knife in again though, and neither did anyone else.

[ianburns252]

Sadly it may also have taught the lad that the only way to solve a problem is to smack the shit out of them.

Obviously a kid bringing a knife in needs to have consequences but there are still too many for whom the only answer is physicality.

The difference is that those kids who would be smacked about at home used to "only" smack other kids around but are no carrying weapons.

Education should be the way to solve in but the issues run deeper than that and how to create a society where physical dominance is desired in that way is beyond me

[redbyrdz]

Do these kids not understand the consequences of carrying and using a knife? I mean presumably they obviously don't or they wouldn't do it but even at that age you've got to be aware to the fact that if you stab and kill someone, not only do you have to live your life with that guilt but you're also going to be spending the best part of it locked up behind bars. They're actual kids too, what could it even have been over?! Cannot get my head around it one bit.

They probably do understand, but they are full of impulsiveness and desire to impress. They are kids too.

Of course, they did something terrible wrong and there has to be consequences for them personally, but I don't believe locking them away for longer and longer is going to solve the problem of youth violence.

[Indomitable_Carp]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/woman-screams-your-face-been-22440020?fbclid=IwAR2jP0iAVQnn-WRyMoAE81vEdp0vzr47cn8W1ztCZ7eHLeurFoLhNt7fN10

This lad has ended up with a horrendous scar after having his face slashed, which a couple of centimetres down would likely have killed him, after accidently bumping into someone resulted in an altercation.

I haven´t been for a few years, so don´t know what sort of crowd it gets these days, but was surprised to hear it occurred at Invisible Wind Factory.

Just goes to show that you can´t avoid this shit even when you are dodging the usual places infested with little shithouses thinking they have something to prove.

People are sick.

[AndyMuller]

This city has a knife problem.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/woman-screams-your-face-been-22440020?fbclid=IwAR2jP0iAVQnn-WRyMoAE81vEdp0vzr47cn8W1ztCZ7eHLeurFoLhNt7fN10

This lad has ended up with a horrendous scar after having his face slashed, which a couple of centimetres down would likely have killed him, after accidently bumping into someone resulted in an altercation.

I haven´t been for a few years, so don´t know what sort of crowd it gets these days, but was surprised to hear it occurred at Invisible Wind Factory.

Just goes to show that you can´t avoid this shit even when you are dodging the usual places infested with little shithouses thinking they have something to prove.

People are sick.

Well you can.

I've been going out and about in town since the mid 80s and haven't been stabbed once.

Unfortunately there are dickheads out there and it is possible to get into issues (I've been jumped four times in Liverpool, but luckily for me by absolute shithouses)

Just stick to main streets and crowds and you are usually going to be ok.,

[Drinks Sangria]

Well you can.

I've been going out and about in town since the mid 80s and haven't been stabbed once.

Unfortunately there are dickheads out there and it is possible to get into issues (I've been jumped four times in Liverpool, but luckily for me by absolute shithouses)

Just stick to main streets and crowds and you are usually going to be ok.,

I get what you're saying - I've been going out in town since I was 16 in the mid 00s and have never been stabbed, slashed etc but that doesn't mean it can't and won't happen due to innocuous situations. I had a mate who literally had his head kicked in in the Krazyhouse a few years back because he accidentally knocked into someone. He apologised, turned away and got sucker punched to the back of the head before 3 scumbags proceeded to kick him in the head and face. He literally just slightly bumped into someone by accident.

If we take the above on face value - and why shouldn't we - it just shows there's a lot of dangerous and nasty people in this city and that not getting involved in this sort of situation is mere luck. I think we've all gotten into a scrape or two in our time, and whilst with me I can honestly say I had a part to play in it (though never the initial aggressor) I've also had situations where I've been personally under threat when I had literally done nothing other than inhabit the space I was standing in.

[Indomitable_Carp]

^^^^ Yep exactly this.

I´ve been going on nights out to town most of my adult and some of my adolescent life, and never been punched, slashed, glassed or stabbed (Been punched in Newcastle though - twice...).

I mind my own buisness, I don´t front-up to people. But I have friends who also act in this way and are inherently non-confrontational and still ended battered, bruised and missing teeth from completely unprovoked assaults.

But throw in knives and stuff like this seems to be luck of the draw now.

Whatever happened in their incident of "accidental collision" it 100% should not have ended like that.

As for saying "stick to crowds", this lad was in the middle of a massive packed-out warehouse venue. How much busier do you need? This advice also didn´t do Ava White any good

Not only that, but, as was my point, a warehouse venue that is typically aimed at a more "alternative" scene where you just don´t expect to be finding knives (and only very rarely assaults). In fact its not even in town its at the North Docks. And whoever was responsible for this slashing will have paid £15+ to be there to watch this act. Just thought they´d bring a knife along "in case"??

[Drinks Sangria]

It's awful and what Carp has said above rings true - this was a ticketed event where the individual knows that his details are likely held somewhere by the organising body and he can probably quite easily be placed at the scene of any incident there and yet he still made the decision to take a knife and still obviously believed he'd have need to use it.

As soon as you decide to take a knife with you, it's not about self-defence and you're essentially precipitating your use of it.

The City does have a knife problem and we need to get far tougher in tackling it. Several major incidents inside a couple of months.

[Son of Spion]

Town has always been dangerous. Most towns and city centres are at times. If you do a percentage of times going out and amount of times being assaulted, the percentage is going to be very low indeed, though. A single incident can be traumatising and even life changing though, so once can be all it takes and then once is once too many.

I went out every Saturday right through the 70s, 80s and we'll into the 90s. So we are talking of hundreds of nights out. I was never directly assaulted, although it's been a close thing once or twice. My brother has been less lucky. He got filled in in Rotters one Saturday for accidentally spilling a drink. Our mates, home from the forces and upstairs at the time, then filled in the aggressors.

Another time he got suckered by a scumbag on St Anne street with an iron bar just because of the clothes he was wearing. Another time, having a quiet drink in a Dock Road pub with a mate he was told to drink up and leave by doormen. No reason given. On leaving he was done from behind by the door staff.

A mate of ours who was a highly skilled martial arts instructor had his face slashed indiscriminately by some Everton gobshites running past him as he was walking down Stanley Street minding his own business.

There are some absolute vermin out there. Some never run into them, some unfortunately do.

Personally, I've had a run-in with a coach load of people from Skem on Lime Street and a guy who turned off Dale Street and came at me with a bottle as I was stood outside Radio City. Bizarrely, I disarmed both incidents with chat and we left on civil terms.  ::


Edited for predictive text cockups.

[Crosby Nick]

This city has a knife problem.

More than other cities? Don’t mean to be flippant, one knife attack is one too many. But does stuff like this happen up and down the country it’s just unless you follow their local
News you wouldn’t know about it?

[Son of Spion]

More than other cities? Don’t mean to be flippant, one knife attack is one too many. But does stuff like this happen up and down the country it’s just unless you follow their local
News you wouldn’t know about it?

It's countrywide, isn't it.

[Drinks Sangria]

Knife problems are country-wide, I think through the lens of this forum topic though it's safe to say Liverpool has a knife problem, within the wider viewpoint of the UK having knife problems, or England at least.

I've a cousin in Runcorn and they say it's awful there, with older primary school kids having been found carrying knives, teenagers with machetes etc. Another family member tells me Stoke and Crewe are infested with knife crime too. London has clearly had this problem for years and it seems the rest of the country is now somewhat similar.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Knife problems are country-wide, I think through the lens of this forum topic though it's safe to say Liverpool has a knife problem, within the wider viewpoint of the UK having knife problems, or England at least.

I've a cousin in Runcorn and they say it's awful there, with older primary school kids having been found carrying knives, teenagers with machetes etc. Another family member tells me Stoke and Crewe are infested with knife crime too. London has clearly had this problem for years and it seems the rest of the country is now somewhat similar.

Yeah I have mates from Runcorn and whenever I've been there, it's always been a bit dodgy.

Was with one of them and a gang of about 20 lads aged around 20 odd were gearing up to attack us when the karaoke went on. I did a couple of Sinatra songs and the next minute they're all coming over to chat and buying us drinks (My mate is a much better singer than I am)

[Crosby Nick]

Sounds like you handled the situation Your Way.

[Roady]

I've not long been back from Spain. Been to town twice since and felt very safe.but then I do try and avoid hotspots which seem to attract a certain crowd. I went out locally this weekend on both Friday and Saturday and whilst I can't really say much about cocaine use (I used to take it quite a bit in Spain) the amount of use of the drug here astounded me.It was so blatant too. Nothing discreet.just literally into the bogs and groups of lads just getting a bag out and working away.

[rob1966]

Well you can.

I've been going out and about in town since the mid 80s and haven't been stabbed once.

Unfortunately there are dickheads out there and it is possible to get into issues (I've been jumped four times in Liverpool, but luckily for me by absolute shithouses)

Just stick to main streets and crowds and you are usually going to be ok.,

Not always the case though

Back in the 90's a mate of our kids was home on leave from the Marines. He was out in town with mates, they were with some lad one of them knew in a club having a chilled time. This lad points out this girl and asks our kids mate, what do you reckon of her. She was fit and the lad says so. Later on, this same lad says to ours kids mate, "don't you be looking at my bird" and stabs him in the guts with a long screwdriver, almost killed him and finished his career.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Sounds like you handled the situation Your Way.

[Tesco tearaway]

Yeah I have mates from Runcorn and whenever I've been there, it's always been a bit dodgy.

Was with one of them and a gang of about 20 lads aged around 20 odd were gearing up to attack us when the karaoke went on. I did a couple of Sinatra songs and the next minute they're all coming over to chat and buying us drinks (My mate is a much better singer than I am)

Wasn't singing 'Mack the knife' I'll bet 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Wasn't singing 'Mack the knife' I'll bet 

I think was was singing "Runaway.."

[AndyMuller]

I was lying in bed last winter, fucking cold, and I could hear a hum and just wondered why the fuck has my lad got a fan on in this weather 

A few weeks later I just decided I had another type of fucking tinnitus   

Now I'm not sure what the fucking is going on   

This does explain the recent knife crime in the city.

 

[John C]

Wrong thread   

[Fromola]

Knife problems are country-wide, I think through the lens of this forum topic though it's safe to say Liverpool has a knife problem, within the wider viewpoint of the UK having knife problems, or England at least.

I've a cousin in Runcorn and they say it's awful there, with older primary school kids having been found carrying knives, teenagers with machetes etc. Another family member tells me Stoke and Crewe are infested with knife crime too. London has clearly had this problem for years and it seems the rest of the country is now somewhat similar.

And this is part of the issue with regards to Liverpool. Runcorn is a 15 minute train ride into town. Same with many other places that are not in Liverpool but within the city region.

The city centre can therefore attract all the scrotes from the surrounding areas to cause trouble/pick people off - people from in and out of the city.

I've never personally had an issue in town during probably hundreds of nights out over the years, but it's just wrong place wrong time in a lot of cases.

Fights used to be worse 15-20 years ago and certainly in the 90s town could be really rough. It was mostly just lads scrapping though, it was normal to see a fight start in a pub, or walking down the street/at chucking out time/at the taxi rank . You couldn't drink in somewhere like Slater Street without seeing a fight.

You don't really have that culture now of seeing random fights start as normal (or maybe it's just the places I go now). Now it's the threat of shithouses with knives, or a group of scumbags picking off a lad on his own in a street somewhere.

[AlphaDelta]

I've always wondered that maybe it seems worse nowadays because news/videos/pictures are more accessible than the 70s and 80s.

In those days people only found out through the paper or by word of mouth. Compared to nowadays when its passed around WhatsApp, all over Facebook or the Echo website. Maybe its always been this bad, but we were hidden from it back then?

My Uncle used to say the Yates Wine Lodge in Moorfields was horrendous for slashings, stabbings and all kinds of murders, and that was in the 70s.

[ianburns252]

I've always wondered that maybe it seems worse nowadays because news/videos/pictures are more accessible than the 70s and 80s.

In those days people only found out through the paper or by word of mouth. Compared to nowadays when its passed around WhatsApp, all over Facebook or the Echo website. Maybe its always been this bad, but we were hidden from it back then?

My Uncle used to say the Yates Wine Lodge in Moorfields was horrendous for slashings, stabbings and all kinds of murders, and that was in the 70s.

I think that is a very good point. Also factor in a change in social norms/what is considered "acceptable" and it can have that impact.

That said, I don't remember there being much going on in the 00s - there were little scrotes all over the place robbing stuff and starting scraps but as someone on the receiving end of a fair few of those fists I don't recall anyone ever pulling a knife or anyone ever hearing about it happen.

[ianburns252]

I wasn't sure where to post this but here seemed best placed:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/28/police-officer-took-selfies-at-scene-and-sent-racist-whatsapp-images

Absolutely disgraceful