Topic: The Arcade Fire

[Boston always unofficial]

spending 90 quid

 

Now that's criminal.

[damomad]

Feist has pulled out of the tour. Fair play.

"At a pub in Dublin, after rehearsing with my band, I read the same headline you did. We didn't have any time to prepare for what was coming let alone a chance to decide not to fly across the ocean into the belly of this situation. This has been incredibly difficult for me and I can only imagine how much more difficult it's been for the people who came forward. More than anything I wish healing to those involved.

This has ignited a conversation that is bigger than me, it's bigger than my songs and it's certainly bigger than any rock and roll tour. As I tried to get my bearings and figure out my responsibility in this situation, I received dozens of messages from the people around me, expressing sympathy for the dichotomy I have been pushed into. To stay on tour would symbolize I was either defending or ignoring the harm caused by Win Butler and to leave would imply I was the judge and jury.

I was never here to stand for or with Arcade Fire—I was here to stand on my own two feet on a stage, a place I've grown to feel I belong and I've earned as my own. I play for my band, my crew, their loved ones and all of our families, and the people who pay their hard-earned money to share space in the collective synergy that is a show. The ebb and flow of my successes, failures, and other decisions affect all of our livelihoods and I recognize how lucky I am to be able to travel the world singing songs about my life, my thoughts and experiences and have that be my career. I've never taken that for granted. 

My experiences include the same experiences as the many people I have spoken to since the news broke on Saturday, and the many strangers whom I may only be able to reach with this letter, or not at all. We all have a story within a spectrum ranging from baseline toxic masculinity to pervasive misogyny to actually being physically, psychologically, emotionally or sexually assaulted. This situation touches each of our lives and speaks to us in a language unique to each
of our processing. There isn't a singular path to heal when you've endured any version of the above, nor a singular path to rehabilitate the perpetrators. It can be a lonely road to make sense of ill treatment. I can't solve that by quitting, and I can't solve it by staying. But I can't continue.

Public shaming might cause action, but those actions are made from fear, and fear is not the place we find our best selves or make our best decisions. Fear doesn't precipitate empathy nor healing nor open a safe space for these kinds of conversations to evolve, or for real accountability and remorse to be offered to the people who were harmed.

I'm imperfect and I will navigate this decision imperfectly, but what I'm sure of is the best way to take care of my band and crew and my family is to distance myself from this tour, not this conversation. The last two nights on stage, my songs made this decision for me. Hearing them through this lens was incongruous with what I've worked to clarify for myself through my whole career. I've always written songs to name my own subtle difficulties, aspire to my best self and claim responsibility when I need to. And I'm claiming my responsibility now and going home.

Leslie"

[thejbs]

Fair play to her. Classy statement.

[thejbs]

I ended up going last night. I loathe spending 90 quid on a ticket and putting it to waste. To be honest, when you see the size of the band, crew, the set up, it would have been a really shitty thing for them to do to cancel the tour at such late notice. I have my opinions on Win but times are hard for people and not everyone in the travelling circus is a millionaire rockstar.

Enough people looked like they were having a blast for me to think they'll maybe lose some fans over this but they will still have enough of a following to maintain arena band level.

The new songs came across really well, Rabbit Hole sounded fantastic.

I'll probably not listen to them for a while now, and will take a wait and see approach if anything else comes out about Win or if he shows he can make amends somehow.

All tours have insurance.

If it's like every other tour I've worked closely with, crew are contracted and would've been paid regardless. Arcade Fire, the business, would've been out of pocket.

Plus, it wasn't short notice for Arcade Fire, only Feist. Butler has known for some time that Pitchfork was putting out an article - the article itself was months in the making and Butler had right of reply.

At the very least, they should've put out a statement saying they were continuing and offered refunds to anyone who didn't want to go.  It would've still been packed and people uncomfortable with attending would've been compensated.

[damomad]

Yeah that sounds reasonable enough to me, and you are right they would have known it was coming, I'm sure their PR firm agonised over setting the right tone of reply for ages and still couldn't come up with anything nearly as impactful as Feists piece from the heart.

Be interesting to see their next move, surely Beck won't join their next tour either.

[thejbs]

Yeah that sounds reasonable enough to me, and you are right they would have known it was coming, I'm sure their PR firm agonised over setting the right tone of reply for ages and still couldn't come up with anything nearly as impactful as Feists piece from the heart.

Be interesting to see their next move, surely Beck won't join their next tour either.

It wasn’t AF’s PR that put out the statements. Butler’s response was via Risa Heller, the crisis management expert who is usually found advising Jared and Ivanka, as well as sex pest Anthony Weiner.

I think you’re right about Beck. Can’t see him going ahead now that Feist has set down a clear, commendable marker.

[ToneLa]

Feist has pulled out of the tour. Fair play.

"At a pub in Dublin, after rehearsing with my band, I read the same headline you did. We didn't have any time to prepare for what was coming let alone a chance to decide not to fly across the ocean into the belly of this situation. This has been incredibly difficult for me and I can only imagine how much more difficult it's been for the people who came forward. More than anything I wish healing to those involved.

This has ignited a conversation that is bigger than me, it's bigger than my songs and it's certainly bigger than any rock and roll tour. As I tried to get my bearings and figure out my responsibility in this situation, I received dozens of messages from the people around me, expressing sympathy for the dichotomy I have been pushed into. To stay on tour would symbolize I was either defending or ignoring the harm caused by Win Butler and to leave would imply I was the judge and jury.

I was never here to stand for or with Arcade Fire—I was here to stand on my own two feet on a stage, a place I've grown to feel I belong and I've earned as my own. I play for my band, my crew, their loved ones and all of our families, and the people who pay their hard-earned money to share space in the collective synergy that is a show. The ebb and flow of my successes, failures, and other decisions affect all of our livelihoods and I recognize how lucky I am to be able to travel the world singing songs about my life, my thoughts and experiences and have that be my career. I've never taken that for granted. 

My experiences include the same experiences as the many people I have spoken to since the news broke on Saturday, and the many strangers whom I may only be able to reach with this letter, or not at all. We all have a story within a spectrum ranging from baseline toxic masculinity to pervasive misogyny to actually being physically, psychologically, emotionally or sexually assaulted. This situation touches each of our lives and speaks to us in a language unique to each
of our processing. There isn't a singular path to heal when you've endured any version of the above, nor a singular path to rehabilitate the perpetrators. It can be a lonely road to make sense of ill treatment. I can't solve that by quitting, and I can't solve it by staying. But I can't continue.

Public shaming might cause action, but those actions are made from fear, and fear is not the place we find our best selves or make our best decisions. Fear doesn't precipitate empathy nor healing nor open a safe space for these kinds of conversations to evolve, or for real accountability and remorse to be offered to the people who were harmed.

I'm imperfect and I will navigate this decision imperfectly, but what I'm sure of is the best way to take care of my band and crew and my family is to distance myself from this tour, not this conversation. The last two nights on stage, my songs made this decision for me. Hearing them through this lens was incongruous with what I've worked to clarify for myself through my whole career. I've always written songs to name my own subtle difficulties, aspire to my best self and claim responsibility when I need to. And I'm claiming my responsibility now and going home.

Leslie"

She's alright, her. Good stuff, good statement - strong in tone and morality.

In other words, what was missing from scumbag Butler

I ended up going last night. I loathe spending 90 quid on a ticket and putting it to waste. To be honest, when you see the size of the band, crew, the set up, it would have been a really shitty thing for them to do to cancel the tour at such late notice. I have my opinions on Win but times are hard for people and not everyone in the travelling circus is a millionaire rockstar.

Enough people looked like they were having a blast for me to think they'll maybe lose some fans over this but they will still have enough of a following to maintain arena band level.

The new songs came across really well, Rabbit Hole sounded fantastic.

I'll probably not listen to them for a while now, and will take a wait and see approach if anything else comes out about Win or if he shows he can make amends somehow.

Not that it matters, nor should I rule the world but... I don't approve of you going, though ninety bar - jesus please-us

[Crosby Nick]

She's alright, her. Good stuff, good statement - strong in tone and morality.

In other words, what was missing from scumbag Butler

Not that it matters, nor should I rule the world but... I don't approve of you going, though ninety bar - jesus please-us

[liverbloke]

he says all encounters were collaborative and consensual - well what else is he gonna say? i raped them? i stuck my hand up their knickers

and his wife stands by him - o-kaaay

now, if i was sitting at home with my girl and there was a knock at the door and there was a woman saying i'd forced myself on her and my girl said NEVER NOT MY FELLA!

then the next night the same thing happened but this time with a totally different girl and my girl looks at me and says NEVER NOT MY FELLA!

and the next night...she looks at me and asks me to explain why there's been 3 girls knocking at my door and i convince her that THEY are liars

and then the next fucking night the same thing again

you'd have to be a fucking moron not to think that i was doing something wrong

[thejbs]

Paraphrasing here, but even with a top crisis management PR person behind the statement, he still manages to basically say 'everything was definitely consensual, but I was blind drunk at the time' and 'my wife had just had a miscarriage, this depressed me so I went on a massive fuckathon' before inviting pitchfork to 'go interview loads of other women I've had affairs with and they'll tell you I didn't rape them'

[JerseyKloppite]

Apparently it's fairly well known in AF circles/locally that they have an open marriage.

Whether open marriage in this context genuinely means that they can both see other people, or she tolerates him having sex with groupies, I've no idea. There was a thread on Reddit which suggests that he picks up women at the bar they own in New Orleans. I suspect she knew a lot about this, and the band knew enough. Whether she knew that some of the interactions were potentially non-consensual I've no idea, and you'd have to hope not.

So there's two separate but linked issues. One is a moral one (him cheating on his wife) which is probably open to debate given that she may accept this, even if you think that's problematic. The second, the nature of the relationships, is the legal one and obviously the key here. He's been accused of two crimes. Taking advantage of status/celebrity isn't itself a crime, though it's scummy. But the alleged sexual assaults are really troubling. He's entitled to say that they're consensual (who knows if he really believes it) but he's unlikely to get much support because of how the series of events characterises him.

[LanceLink!!!!!]

As a married couple, they had a toddler at home the time this was all happening, what sort of father and man goes out and does that?

Scum, subhuman scum.

[thejbs]

There are a lot of red flags in the story that lend credibility to the accusers. A 35 year old sending unsolicited dick pics to and 18 year old is a pretty good indicator for a start.

[Spezialo]

What did Cher do?!

Didn't she sleep with Anthony Kiedis when she was his babysitter? She was 29 and he was 13.

[Crosby Nick]

Didn't she sleep with Anthony Kiedis when she was his babysitter? She was 29 and he was 13.

Blimey.

Water under the bridge now.

[ToneLa]

There are a lot of red flags in the story that lend credibility to the accusers. A 35 year old sending unsolicited dick pics to and 18 year old is a pretty good indicator for a start.

One of the victims discusses their realisation of the layer of control and manipulation he was exerting which, from that perspective, perhaps only hindsight reveals. (I think it important to remember he was, whether he saw it like this or not, exploiting his fame)

I think that element is clearly there. Very little of this was "accidental".

That's probably the part that for me really destroyed his statement (I hesitate to call it an apology, as if that alone is a magic salve anyway). It's the behavioural cues, the trends.... It's abuse, it's not "a mistake", let alone "a drunken grieving mistake".

He, basically, as a starting point groomed his teenage fans for sex.

This is not some accidental thing you do once while drunk and grieving. In his case, he repeated the controlling behaviour for several victims

..... It's a huge red flag

[thejbs]

One of the victims discusses their realisation of the layer of control and manipulation he was exerting which, from that perspective, perhaps only hindsight reveals. (I think it important to remember he was, whether he saw it like this or not, exploiting his fame)

I think that element is clearly there. Very little of this was "accidental".

That's probably the part that for me really destroyed his statement (I hesitate to call it an apology, as if that alone is a magic salve anyway). It's the behavioural cues, the trends.... It's abuse, it's not "a mistake", let alone "a drunken grieving mistake".

He, basically, as a starting point groomed his teenage fans for sex.

This is not some accidental thing you do once while drunk and grieving. In his case, he repeated the controlling behaviour for several victims

..... It's a huge red flag

Bang on. Great post.

[liverbloke]

Great post ToneLa

i know people say you have to separate the art from the artist - true with so many artists throughout history - but i'm going to struggle with this one

girlfriend what are you listening to? that's great

me yeh, it's by a man who groomed abused and coerced young girls and forced women into sex

girlfriend whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

[Drinks Sangria]

Didn't she sleep with Anthony Kiedis when she was his babysitter? She was 29 and he was 13.

No, that comes from an Italian mistranslation from Kiedis’ autobiography. Don’t get wrong, Kiedis admits some horrific shit in Scar Tissue and is beyond problematic as an individual but the actual story was he got babysat by Cher (Kiedis’ Dad was a drug dealer for Hollywood’s rich and famous) and Kiedis said he didn’t want to sleep in a different room alone in such a big house. He was 13 at the time. Cher let him stay in her bed with her and Kiedis did a peeping Tom act on her when she was getting changed in the bathroom.

The other story this is likely getting confused with is that when Kiedis was 12/13, his Dad had one of his hangers on have sex with the child Kiedis as payment for drugs. No wonder the bloke is fucked up.

[LanceLink!!!!!]

I've not heard a song on the radio by Arcade Fire since the accusations, his fellow band members must fucking hate him.

Was listening to Don Letts show on 6 on Sunday night and he played a track from Will Butler's new album and it was ok, so I had a listen to the album. It's quite good, sounds like Arcade Fire a bit too much in parts and his voice sounds identical to Win.

It's worth a listen though, there's some quite weird but wonderful beats in there.