Topic: Arsenal: Top of the divers league

[Crosby Nick]

Yup, if Klopp had gone to Utd when they were courting him and behaved the exact same way he has with us, there would be loads on here who would absolutely hate him.

Supporters of other clubs don’t like Klopp for a variety of reasons. Far and away the biggest of those is because he made us successful. If we were crap they’d like him a lot more. He has a big personality. He’s cooler, funnier, more charming than them and their managers.

All that rubs you up the wrong way a bit when you’ve not been as successful. Or if you’re a City fan and can’t stand someone standing up to them.

[Dougle]

Putting aside Arteta and his histrionics and the "over celebrations", at the end of 2 matches only Brighton (am I right ?) have 6 points along with City and Arsenal. I well remember the recent seasons (many of them) when the pressure of winning every game was on us right there from the start of the season, literally the first game. So from that point of view I understand how big the 3 points were for Arsenal, as NB said, you assume ADFC will win every game. (But I bet they won't).

Secondly the reason Arsenal came very close to winning the League last season was the start they had. They won game after game and were well out in front at the World Cup (midpoint). So in some ways you can see, if you are serious about winning the league, how a similarly blitzed opening half of the season sets them right up for it. So, again, this is why Palace away, with 10 men, a win, is so important.

At the stage, I don't City will "hit 100" or anything like it this season. (Age, Lack of Hunger, injuries, boredom ??). If I was Arteta and Arsenal I would stress to the players that they can finish better this season and that they are capable of running away from the rest right from the "off". They did it last season. At least that's what I'd be saying !!

Let's see.

[Yorkykopite]

Yup, if Klopp had gone to Utd when they were courting him and behaved the exact same way he has with us, there would be loads on here who would absolutely hate him.

A fair comment. I'd probably join in, being of human clay myself.

But at the back of my mind I would guiltily remember how much I loved him - histrionics included - when he was at Dortmund. I'd also remember how much I pined for him to come to Liverpool before he spurned us for Manchester United. I'd also know deep down (perhaps not so deep) how his football teams were always thrilling to watch. In other words I'd secretly still like the bloke.

Arteta? He's a small and sour man by comparison. He's certainly no Klopp. It'd be like comparing Harry Catterick to Shanks.

[ScottishGoon]

Putting aside Arteta and his histrionics and the "over celebrations", at the end of 2 matches only Brighton (am I right ?) have 6 points along with City and Arsenal. I well remember the recent seasons (many of them) when the pressure of winning every game was on us right there from the start of the season, literally the first game. So from that point of view I understand how big the 3 points were for Arsenal, as NB said, you assume ADFC will win every game. (But I bet they won't).

Secondly the reason Arsenal came very close to winning the League last season was the start they had. They won game after game and were well out in front at the World Cup (midpoint). So in some ways you can see, if you are serious about winning the league, how a similarly blitzed opening half of the season sets them right up for it. So, again, this is why Palace away, with 10 men, a win, is so important.

At the stage, I don't City will "hit 100" or anything like it this season. (Age, Lack of Hunger, injuries, boredom ??). If I was Arteta and Arsenal I would stress to the players that they can finish better this season and that they are capable of running away from the rest right from the "off". They did it last season. At least that's what I'd be saying !!

Let's see.

Yourself and Tubby are too reasoned and sensible when discussing Arsenal on here....it will never catch on! 

[zero zero]

Yup, if Klopp had gone to Utd when they were courting him and behaved the exact same way he has with us, there would be loads on here who would absolutely hate him.

Here’s you with another of your “Look at me and see how über-objective I can be” takes (just as you’ve been with refereeing decisions against us).

If Klopp had gone to Man United, “ loads on here who would absolutely hate him” because he would have them playing fantastic, attractive football that would win them trophies. It would be pure jealousy. So, it’s not really the same.

Does any Liverpool fan want Arteta here? His most notable “achievement “ to date is to be in charge of, as Tony mentioned earlier, the biggest bottle job in Premier League history. His teams waste time as soon as they go a goal up instead of trying to get two, three or six more like a proper, dominant team.

[tubby]

Here’s you with another of your “Look at me and see how über-objective I can be” takes (just as you’ve been with refereeing decisions against us).

Haha what?  Sorry for not playing the superfan.

[Terry de Niro]

Never liked lego head and never will.

[zero zero]

Haha what?  Sorry for not playing the superfan.

What do you mean by this?

[tubby]

What do you mean by this?

Calling things how I see them instead of being biased towards my club.

[zero zero]

Calling things how I see them instead of being biased towards my club.

So this is now a bad thing? Aren't we supposed to be football fan(antics)?

I suppose some fans are more comfortable with the idea of "great game for the neutral". It's been pushed down our throats for so long. Calling me a "superfan" is the feeblest non-insult I can think of. Biased toward my own club? You don't fucking say!

Getting back to the main point, I don't agree with your contention that there's any equivalent of Klopp going to the Manc's (instead of us) and the general dislike of (biased) Liverpool fans to Arteta and his histrionic, bottle jobs.

[tubby]

So this is now a bad thing? Aren't we supposed to be football fan(antics)?

I suppose some fans are more comfortable with the idea of "great game for the neutral". It's been pushed down our throats for so long. Calling me a "superfan" is the feeblest non-insult I can think of. Biased toward my own club? You don't fucking say!

Getting back to the main point, I don't agree with your contention that there's any equivalent of Klopp going to the Manc's (instead of us) and the general dislike of (biased) Liverpool fans to Arteta and his histrionic, bottle jobs.

It's all good.  I wasn't trying to draw an equivalent between Klopp and Arteta, my point was that being biased will cloud views.  If Klopp did manage Utd, loads of folks on here would go on about how annoying he is on the touchline, how he's too aggressive with officials, him running onto the pitch, him being a hypocrite with his views on big money transfers, etc.

Arteta I'd imagine is way more annoying to the neutral either way though.

[PaulF]

Putting aside Arteta and his histrionics and the "over celebrations", at the end of 2 matches only Brighton (am I right ?) have 6 points along with City and Arsenal. I well remember the recent seasons (many of them) when the pressure of winning every game was on us right there from the start of the season, literally the first game. So from that point of view I understand how big the 3 points were for Arsenal, as NB said, you assume ADFC will win every game. (But I bet they won't).

Secondly the reason Arsenal came very close to winning the League last season was the start they had. They won game after game and were well out in front at the World Cup (midpoint). So in some ways you can see, if you are serious about winning the league, how a similarly blitzed opening half of the season sets them right up for it. So, again, this is why Palace away, with 10 men, a win, is so important.

At the stage, I don't City will "hit 100" or anything like it this season. (Age, Lack of Hunger, injuries, boredom ??). If I was Arteta and Arsenal I would stress to the players that they can finish better this season and that they are capable of running away from the rest right from the "off". They did it last season. At least that's what I'd be saying !!

Let's see.

He probably 'just 'needs to get his team to amass the same number of points and hope for a city drop off.

[Ghost Town]

Haha what?  Sorry for not playing the superfan.

You've been spending too much time with the transfer junkies. Have a wash! 

[tubby]

You've been spending too much time with the transfer junkies. Have a wash! 

No dice, I love the smell of transfer rumours in the morning.

[ScottishGoon]

Here’s you with another of your “Look at me and see how über-objective I can be” takes (just as you’ve been with refereeing decisions against us).

If Klopp had gone to Man United, “ loads on here who would absolutely hate him” because he would have them playing fantastic, attractive football that would win them trophies. It would be pure jealousy. So, it’s not really the same.

Does any Liverpool fan want Arteta here? His most notable “achievement “ to date is to be in charge of, as Tony mentioned earlier, the biggest bottle job in Premier League history. His teams waste time as soon as they go a goal up instead of trying to get two, three or six more like a proper, dominant team.

Nonsense. He's won an FA Cup in his first 6 months as a manager, and we scored outmost amount of goals in the EPL era last season, so just a poor take all round.

[zero zero]

Nonsense. He's won an FA Cup in his first 6 months as a manager, and we scored outmost amount of goals in the EPL era last season, so just a poor take all round.

It was an unprecedented bottle job

[ScottishGoon]

It was an unprecedented bottle job

It's not his most notable achievement though, is it, if he's actually won something?

[zero zero]

It's not his most notable achievement though, is it, if he's actually won something?

I am biased . Ok, it's Arteta's most recent notable achievement. You players seemed giddy with delight to hang on for a narrow win with ten men. It seemed a bit forced.

[Agent99]

Just to clarify, I've always had a soft spot for Arsenal as I liked Wenger and they played some amazing football. They also had some great players who, even though they played for a rival, seemed like good dudes.

My issue with this version of Arsenal is all this 'dark arts' shit that is just annoying as fuck. It's got nothing to do with them winning as I can't stand Brentford and Newcastle who are just as bad for it. With regard to the 'over celebration' if you win a hard fought game after going down to 10 men then celebrate all you want I don't have an issue with that. What is small time is six or seven players double high fiving a team mate and giving it large when they have won a goal kick in the 85th minute.

[ScottishGoon]

I am biased . Ok, it's Arteta's most recent notable achievement. You players seemed giddy with delight to hang on for a narrow win with ten men. It seemed a bit forced.

And that I can live with. 

Just to clarify, I've always had a soft spot for Arsenal as I liked Wenger and they played some amazing football. They also had some great players who, even though they played for a rival, seemed like good dudes.

My issue with this version of Arsenal is all this 'dark arts' shit that is just annoying as fuck. It's got nothing to do with them winning as I can't stand Brentford and Newcastle who are just as bad for it. With regard to the 'over celebration' if you win a hard fought game after going down to 10 men then celebrate all you want I don't have an issue with that. What is small time is six or seven players double high fiving a team mate and giving it large when they have won a goal kick in the 85th minute.

Honestly, I've seen this that much I just assumed that happened at nearly every club. Will keep a close eye on Liverpool now to make sure that doesn't happen in any of their games. 

[Agent99]

Honestly, I've seen this that much I just assumed that happened at nearly every club. Will keep a close eye on Liverpool now to make sure that doesn't happen in any of their games. 

 

[The North Bank]

All about fulham at the weekend and the next 3 points. Must keep winning.

[Billy The Kid]

It was an unprecedented bottle job

Neat soundbite. If only it didn't conveniently ignore the fact that:

(a) Arsenal's "lead" was never really more than 5 points throughout most of the campaign (which is hardly massive)
(b) The duration of their stay atop the table was helped by the fact they were a game ahead of City from midway up until the last few games
(c) Most people (especially Liverpool fans) knew Arsenal never really stood a chance of outrunning City on the home stretch
(d) Because of C, they were never really "title challengers", therefore had nothing as such to "bottle"

Obviously they dropped a lot of points points in seemingly easy fixtures, which I understand gives credence to the "they bottled it" narrative. But here's the thing: if any fan base should know just how hard it is to outpace a doped-up City over a 38 game campaign then it should be us. Which is why it's a bit wild to come onto a Liverpool forum and declare Arsenal's failure as "unprecedented" just because some statistical chart appears damning to the naked eye. We're better than that, are we not? And Dare I say it, such ignorance only serves to enable the continuation of City's cheating, does it not?

[Yorkykopite]

Neat soundbite. If only it didn't conveniently ignore the fact that:

(a) Arsenal's "lead" was never really more than 5 points throughout most of the campaign (which is hardly massive)
(b) The duration of their stay atop the table was helped by the fact they were a game ahead of City from midway up until the last few games
(c) Most people (especially Liverpool fans) knew Arsenal never really stood a chance of outrunning City on the home stretch
(d) Because of C, they were never really "title challengers", therefore had nothing as such to "bottle"

Obviously they dropped a lot of points points in seemingly easy fixtures, which I understand gives credence to the "they bottled it" narrative. But here's the thing: if any fan base should know just how hard it is to outpace a doped-up City over a 38 game campaign then it should be us. Which is why it's a bit wild to come onto a Liverpool forum and declare Arsenal's failure as "unprecedented" just because some statistical chart appears damning to the naked eye. We're better than that, are we not? And Dare I say it, such ignorance only serves to enable the continuation of City's cheating, does it not?

As late as February Arsenal held a 5 point lead over Man City with a game in hand. That weekend Man City lost. Had Arsenal beaten Everton, who were in free fall, they would have extended that lead to 8 points with a game in hand. Win the game in hand and Arsenal would have been at the top on 56 points with Manchester in second place on 45 points. A pretty cool 11 point lead. But Arsenal bottled it and lost 1-0 at Goodison. 

And they kept bottling it. Not only did they lose significant games when the pressure was on, they began to specialise in losing significant leads during games. It's hard to think of a parallel collapse. Man City in '72 when they bought Rodney Marsh for the run-in and collapsed totally?

Pointing out Arsenal's historic failure does nothing at all to alleviate Man City's cheating. In fact I don't understand that argument at all.

[The North Bank]

As late as February Arsenal held a 5 point lead over Man City with a game in hand. That weekend Man City lost. Had Arsenal beaten Everton, who were in free fall, they would have extended that lead to 8 points with a game in hand. Win the game in hand and Arsenal would have been at the top on 56 points with Manchester in second place on 45 points. A pretty cool 11 point lead. But Arsenal bottled it and lost 1-0 at Goodison. 

And they kept bottling it. Not only did they lose significant games when the pressure was on, they began to specialise in losing significant leads during games. It's hard to think of a parallel collapse. Man City in '72 when they bought Rodney Marsh for the run-in and collapsed totally?

Pointing out Arsenal's historic failure does nothing at all to alleviate Man City's cheating. In fact I don't understand that argument at all.

Thats actually mathematically false. But i wont dwell as you often get things wrong.

Fulham at home is all that matters now

[The North Bank]

Neat soundbite. If only it didn't conveniently ignore the fact that:

(a) Arsenal's "lead" was never really more than 5 points throughout most of the campaign (which is hardly massive)
(b) The duration of their stay atop the table was helped by the fact they were a game ahead of City from midway up until the last few games
(c) Most people (especially Liverpool fans) knew Arsenal never really stood a chance of outrunning City on the home stretch
(d) Because of C, they were never really "title challengers", therefore had nothing as such to "bottle"

Obviously they dropped a lot of points points in seemingly easy fixtures, which I understand gives credence to the "they bottled it" narrative. But here's the thing: if any fan base should know just how hard it is to outpace a doped-up City over a 38 game campaign then it should be us. Which is why it's a bit wild to come onto a Liverpool forum and declare Arsenal's failure as "unprecedented" just because some statistical chart appears damning to the naked eye. We're better than that, are we not? And Dare I say it, such ignorance only serves to enable the continuation of City's cheating, does it not?

All excellent points.

We are in the same league table as them, but i wont be doing any comparisons with them, we ll do our best and thats it. The argument starts and ends with them cheating and until something is done about it no sporting merits can be debated, in my opinion

[Tonyh8su]

Opposition fans will always find some thing to moan about with rival clubs.

Believe it or not, there's lots out there moan similarly about Klopp and Liverpool.

Just the nature of the beast.

It’s almost as if you’re in an opposition fan forum. Crazy.

[Yorkykopite]

Thats actually mathematically false.

I'd love you to explain why.

I had a little check at what RAWK was saying about Arsenal at this time, because not only were you sitting very comfortably at the top of the league with a game in hand. You also had Man City coming to your gaffe. Here's an interesting quote.

I see us beating them at home in the league , I think Haaland outside the box is a liability , reminded me of Benteke yesterday ..... De Bruynes legs are definitely going, still capable of brilliance but can he be the heart beat of a team that can win 15 in a row? I have big doubts. If we beat them in the home game and I make us favourites, that’s the title over. If we go 11 ahead they’re not coming back. We are in a great position, much better than what most people realise to be honest.

But in the meantime there was the chance to extend your lead at the top. Just free-falling Everton to defeat. Here's the same cocky guy's prediction:

Seen pictures of them flagging in training while dychy smiles away. That’ll be the case when they concede 5 on Saturday. He ll hang them out to dry and blame “lamps”. In typical ginger mourinho style.

You probably recognise the poster.

It's you!

[Tonyh8su]

I'd love you to explain why.

I had a little check at what RAWK was saying about Arsenal at this time, because not only were you sitting very comfortably at the top of the league with a game in hand. You also had Man City coming to your gaffe. Here's an interesting quote.

I see us beating them at home in the league , I think Haaland outside the box is a liability , reminded me of Benteke yesterday ..... De Bruynes legs are definitely going, still capable of brilliance but can he be the heart beat of a team that can win 15 in a row? I have big doubts. If we beat them in the home game and I make us favourites, that’s the title over. If we go 11 ahead they’re not coming back. We are in a great position, much better than what most people realise to be honest.

But in the meantime there was the chance to extend your lead at the top. Just free-falling Everton to defeat. Here's the same cocky guy's prediction:

Seen pictures of them flagging in training while dychy smiles away. That’ll be the case when they concede 5 on Saturday. He ll hang them out to dry and blame “lamps”. In typical ginger mourinho style.

You probably recognise the poster.

It's you!

You could fill a book with his hideous giddy gloating from last year. The back tracking of “just happy to be taking part” was hilarious. And he’s learned 0 lessons.

[Terry de Niro]

I'd love you to explain why.

I had a little check at what RAWK was saying about Arsenal at this time, because not only were you sitting very comfortably at the top of the league with a game in hand. You also had Man City coming to your gaffe. Here's an interesting quote.

I see us beating them at home in the league , I think Haaland outside the box is a liability , reminded me of Benteke yesterday ..... De Bruynes legs are definitely going, still capable of brilliance but can he be the heart beat of a team that can win 15 in a row? I have big doubts. If we beat them in the home game and I make us favourites, that’s the title over. If we go 11 ahead they’re not coming back. We are in a great position, much better than what most people realise to be honest.

But in the meantime there was the chance to extend your lead at the top. Just free-falling Everton to defeat. Here's the same cocky guy's prediction:

Seen pictures of them flagging in training while dychy smiles away. That’ll be the case when they concede 5 on Saturday. He ll hang them out to dry and blame “lamps”. In typical ginger mourinho style.

You probably recognise the poster.

It's you!

Did he post that at some silly hour in the morning?

[The North Bank]

I'd love you to explain why.

I had a little check at what RAWK was saying about Arsenal at this time, because not only were you sitting very comfortably at the top of the league with a game in hand. You also had Man City coming to your gaffe. Here's an interesting quote.

I see us beating them at home in the league , I think Haaland outside the box is a liability , reminded me of Benteke yesterday ..... De Bruynes legs are definitely going, still capable of brilliance but can he be the heart beat of a team that can win 15 in a row? I have big doubts. If we beat them in the home game and I make us favourites, that’s the title over. If we go 11 ahead they’re not coming back. We are in a great position, much better than what most people realise to be honest.

But in the meantime there was the chance to extend your lead at the top. Just free-falling Everton to defeat. Here's the same cocky guy's prediction:

Seen pictures of them flagging in training while dychy smiles away. That’ll be the case when they concede 5 on Saturday. He ll hang them out to dry and blame “lamps”. In typical ginger mourinho style.

You probably recognise the poster.

It's you!

If we went 11 clear we would have won it, thats nothing to do with having games in hand after everton etc, you can go back 10 years and look at posts, you’re still mathematically inaccurate, ill leave it there. Theres nothing more to say, you got it wrong.

New season now so i wont add anymore, its already a waste of time , its just you were making a mathematical argument in terms of points and you were wide of the mark so i thought id help.

Maybe do your research before you post not afterwards, in case you get it wrong again.

[Yorkykopite]

Did he post that at some silly hour in the morning?

Don't think so Terry. He disappeared for a few days after the Everton calamity though.

He's an odd one, but his method is extremely consistent. There are times when he is certain Arsenal will win the league and that Man City are pretty ordinary ("Haaland is a liability", "De Bruyne's legs are definitely going" etc). There are other times when he tells us that no one can ever win the league except Manchester City because they are financially doped. In other words he swings from baseless triumphalism to abject defeatism. You see this time and again. We'll see it this season too. It's why he cannot be taken seriously as a poster. Although it does make him a laugh.

I think some posters warm to him because when he's not underrating Man City and trashing their excellent players he is very hot on them being invincible and arguing that the league is rigged so that Arsenal and Liverpool cannot win it. That of course is bullshit. We know it's bullshit because we did win it. The competition is unfair, we all know that. The jury is still out on the legality of what Manchester have done. But TNB's idea that Manchester cannot be beaten is as ludicrous as his other idea that they are rubbish.

[Yorkykopite]

you’re still mathematically inaccurate, ill leave it there.

I'm not surprised you're "leaving it there". The facts are not on your side.

Just to reiterate the situation. Arsenal at the start of February were 5 points ahead of Man City with a game in hand. That weekend Man City lost. If Arsenal had won at Everton (you predicted 5-0 to Arsenal) they would have been 8 points ahead with a game in hand. Win the game in hand as well and you'd have been 11 points ahead. Then you were hosting Man City. Had you won that too (look how cocky you were!), you'd have been 14 points ahead. This was all feasible. You're on record thinking so yourself.

Instead.....

Bottle Job.

[The North Bank]

I'm not surprised you're "leaving it there". The facts are not on your side.

Just to reiterate the situation. Arsenal at the start of February were 5 points ahead of Man City with a game in hand. That weekend Man City lost. If Arsenal had won at Everton (you predicted 5-0 to Arsenal) they would have been 8 points ahead with a game in hand. Win the game in hand as well and you'd have been 11 points ahead. Then you were hosting Man City. Had you won that too (look how cocky you were!), you'd have been 14 points ahead. This was all feasible. You're on record thinking so yourself.

Instead.....



Bottle Job.

After we played everton both teams were on 20 games played so we didn’t have a game in hand. Anyway, its a new season now, looks like we might be up there again. Which is all that matters.

[zero zero]

Neat soundbite.

No, it's not. Neither is it "some statistical chart". It is, as you need it explained to you, a graphical representation of which team was leading the league per game week. It is factual. The only other teams to show such dominance; Conte's Chelsea, City and us went on to win the league at canter.

And Dare I say it, such ignorance only serves to enable the continuation of City's cheating, does it not?

Nice. I think you're the ignorant one. Pointing out that Arsenal bottled the title, in the Giddy Arsenal thread on a Liverpool forum does not condone or enable City's cheating.

[Yorkykopite]

After we played everton both teams were on 20 games played so we didn’t have a game in hand.

You're forgetting that on the same weekend Man City played - and lost - at Tottenham. That left you 5 points ahead with a game in hand. This Matchweek 22.

https://www.premierleague.com/matchweek/7852/table

If you'd have beaten Everton (Everton!!!) you'd have been 8 points ahead, with a game in hand! But you blew it. Blue it.

[PaulF]

No, it's not. Neither is it "some statistical chart". It is, as you need it explained to you, a graphical representation of which team was leading the league per game week. It is factual. The only other teams to show such dominance; Conte's Chelsea, City and us went on to win the league at canter.Nice. I think you're the ignorant one. Pointing out that Arsenal bottled the title, in the Giddy Arsenal thread on a Liverpool forum does not condone or enable City's cheating.

Arsenal could have been ahead on GD for the majority of the season, the winners a good 15 points ahead for most of the season. Yet you can't tell that from the chart.

[Terry de Niro]

Imagine Liverpool fans on a Liverpool forum taking the piss out of Arsenal for bottling it last season? 

[The North Bank]

You're forgetting that on the same weekend Man City played - and lost - at Tottenham. That left you 5 points ahead with a game in hand. This Matchweek 22.

https://www.premierleague.com/matchweek/7852/table

If you'd have beaten Everton (Everton!!!) you'd have been 8 points ahead, with a game in hand! But you blew it. Blue it.

Thats too many ifs and buts if youre including games city hadnt yet played. City might have beaten spurs had we beaten everton. Either way, we had a great chance, though there were still 18 games to play, but up to that point we looked superb. We need to finish better if we find ourselves in with a chance this season, hence the deeper squad. Still early but so far so good.

I do get your point about Everton though, and we go there again in 2 weeks, they look even worse now, if they beat us again…..

[zero zero]

Arsenal could have been ahead on GD for the majority of the season, the winners a good 15 points ahead for most of the season.

Wasn't the case though.

Yet you can't tell that from the chart.

The chart doesn't show anything other than four teams that dominated the league leadership over the past 15 years. Three won. One didn't. The end.