Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[oldfordie]

Just amazed an idea that was the brainchild of Chris Grayling could fail like this

It shows this is not all about right/left wing ideology f,,, up the country, it's also about competency. these idiots really haven't got a clue. they will spend the next few yrs either denying anything's wrong or blaming the EU for our problems, I wish I could believe the opposition knew what they were doing but all I see is inexperience. MPs holding positions because of leadership loyalty rather than the skills to actually do the job, it's either right wing radical change or left wing radical change, it means were fu,, either way.

[BobOnATank]

Brexit: Netherlands talking to 250 firms about leaving UK

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/09/brexit-uk-companies-discuss-moving-to-netherlands

Some highlights...

The BBC is considering setting up an international base in Belgium.

France has identified 50 companies, including motor and pharmaceutical industries, that it is trying to entice across the Channel.
Last month President Emmanuel Macron hosted an investment summit for more than 140 business leaders, including bosses of companies with a significant British presence, such as Goldman Sachs, Google and Siemens.

[Millie]

If a Parliamentary Candidate had a manifesto stating they he/she would do everything in their power to make sure that huge Companies left the UK to set up in mainland Europe, they would make it difficult for students to study in the rest of Europe, make it difficult to import vital medicines, and food stuff etc etc - I could go on but you get the gist;  no one in their right mind would every vote for them.

Yet here we are 

[Iska]

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/02/i-talked-my-leave-voting-constituents-about-brexit-what-i-learnt

I saw this earlier and it did resonate, but on reflection very little of it is to do directly with brexit.  The only thing that is is the passage about Sports Direct effectively only recruiting from abroad, which they can do cheap because gangmasters have somehow come to control the labour supply and can undercut any local workers.  The country turning a blind eye to that crap *is* a cause of this in my view.

The rest of it is mostly despair at the modern world though, and the tragedy of the present moment is that it just happens to be the EU that the vote was on.

[Libertine]

Brexit: Netherlands talking to 250 firms about leaving UK

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/09/brexit-uk-companies-discuss-moving-to-netherlands

Some highlights...

Great - driving up rental/property prices here even more.....

[west_london_red]

Great - driving up rental/property prices here even more.....

That’s capitalism for you.

[Dr. Beaker]

Great - driving up rental/property prices here even more.....

And wages.

[Elmo!]

Great - driving up rental/property prices here even more.....

Stupid immigrants, coming here driving up property prices....

[west_london_red]

Stupid immigrants, coming here driving up property prices....

‘Yup, free movement, the single market are great... unless they negatively affect me in which case they are bad!’

Sounds a bit NIMBY to me.

[Libertine]

‘Yup, free movement, the single market are great... unless they negatively affect me in which case they are bad!’

Sounds a bit NIMBY to me.

Yeah, was just a tonque in cheek comment  as I'm one of those that just moved here....

And wages.

Not in academia unfortunately  though they do have some nice tax breaks for those moving here.

[west_london_red]

Yeah, was just a tonque in cheek comment  as I'm one of those that just moved here....

It did confuse me as I thought you lived in Ireland?

[No666]

We'll see.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/09/back-theresa-may-brexit-deal-then-hold-peoples-vote-backbencher-plan

[Dr. Beaker]

Mostly pissed, as I ever am when I contribute on here, and I'm watching Last Train to Lisbon, with tears threatening at the mere thought of us breaking ties with these rich cultures to the south - not to mention, our oldest ally.

[Libertine]

It did confuse me as I thought you lived in Ireland?

No, not for a long time now. Was in the UK for many years, recently moved to the Netherlands, (very) slowly making my way across Europe.....

[killer-heels]

We'll see.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/09/back-theresa-may-brexit-deal-then-hold-peoples-vote-backbencher-plan

Cannot see that getting through parliament, support for a second vote seems very low. On top of that, it seems that MP are likely to push the process right to the end and even ask for an extension first.

Also that doesnt seem to put the peovision of No Deal on the ballot.

[Elmo!]

Yeah, was just a tonque in cheek comment  as I'm one of those that just moved here....

Not in academia unfortunately  though they do have some nice tax breaks for those moving here.

For the record I took it that way and my response was also tongue in cheek 

[oldfordie]

Mostly pissed, as I ever am when I contribute on here, and I'm watching Last Train to Lisbon, with tears threatening at the mere thought of us breaking ties with these rich cultures to the south - not to mention, our oldest ally.

We will be back m8, Brexit is all about damage limitation. we will never fully recover from it but we will be rejoining the SM+CU and all the conditions that come with it inside 10yr but I expect it to be sooner, whether the EU allow us to rejoin is another matter, I still can't believe how our politicians think they will get away with it. even the pensioners will be screaming blue murder when price rises and inflation hits after all trade deals get ripped up. Brexit will be a election issue until we rejoin.

[Zeb]

Sunday Times (paywall) has an interview with Starmer.

Spoiler

Sir Keir Starmer could be forgiven for feeling a little frustrated. Last week footage emerged of his leader, Jeremy Corbyn, showing what many colleagues believe are his true feelings towards the EU — describing Brussels as a “European empire of the 21st century” and a “military Frankenstein”.

The video from 2009 made the job of holding Starmer’s divided party together on Brexit no easier.

But Starmer is getting used to the discomfort. As a self-proclaimed “passionate remainer”, he has spent the past two years guiding — some in his party wish it was steering — his leader through every twist and turn of the Brexit negotiations.

So, I ask, is there a special place in hell for a remainer like him serving a Brexit-supporting leader? Starmer laughs before saying: “That’s a question which doesn’t warrant an answer.”

Last week, Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council, launched a stinging attack on the architects of Brexit, just hours before Theresa May arrived in Brussels to ask for legally binding changes to the withdrawal agreement. He tweeted: “I’ve been wondering what that special place in hell looks like, for those who promoted #Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely.”

While Starmer clearly sees the tone of the message as unhelpful, he does have some sympathy with Tusk’s position. “I have strong views on those that advocate Brexit without a plan, and there are too many of those with that view in parliament in that camp for my liking,” he told The Sunday Times in an interview in his constituency of Holborn and St Pancras in central London.

“But although I am frustrated with Brexiteers without a plan, in the end, we’ve got to find a way of getting through to the 52% and the 48%.”

With little sign of a breakthrough in the Brexit negotiations, Starmer sees his duty is to try to help find a way through the impasse. But his first mission is to stop Britain crashing out without a deal.

He believes the prime minister is “pretending to make progress while actually running the clock down” so that she can return to parliament at the end of March and offer MPs a “binary choice” — her deal or no deal.

“We can’t allow that to happen,” he added. Labour is preparing to introduce an amendment this week that will put a “hard stop” on May’s efforts to run down the clock by forcing her to put her deal before parliament again before February 26. “There needs to be a day when parliament says that’s it, enough is enough,” he said.

His intervention comes amid claims that May could delay the next meaningful vote until after the next European Council summit on March 21 — eight days before the UK is due to leave the EU.

Responding to reports from diplomats and EU officials who believe it could take until then for any agreement to be reached on the alternative arrangements May is seeking to the Irish backstop, Starmer claimed such a ruse showed a lack of respect for parliament. He was also worried about the effect of the delay on business and fears that “irreversible” decisions were now being taken.

Starmer describes May’s approach as “reckless” and “blinkered” and blames her “tunnel vision” for the devastating defeat suffered by the prime minister last month after MPs threw out her Brexit deal by a record 230 votes. But he claims rather than learn her lesson, May was allowing parliament to “tread water” because she had nothing that MPs would vote through parliament.

“It’s this blinkered approach that’s got us to where we are, with her never wanting to see where the real majority is in parliament,” Starmer said. Last week Corbyn made an offer to May in a letter setting out five demands for Labour to give its support to the government to achieve a “sensible” Brexit. These include a permanent customs union, which Corbyn argues will avoid a hard border, and close alignment with the EU single market.

“This is the only combination I genuinely believe can deliver no hard border in Northern Ireland,” said Starmer, who claimed the letter was the result of “careful thinking” and more than two years of talking to officials in Brussels. However, although the proposals received a warm reception from the EU, Corbyn faced a backlash from furious Labour MPs who suggested it was changing the party’s policy and closing the door on a second referendum.

Several, including Owen Smith and Chris Leslie, threatened to quit as speculation swirls about the formation of a new party. Starmer insisted the letter did not take a people’s vote off the table. He added: “When you go through something like Brexit, it is very important that you keep the opposition strong and united. We have to keep it together, because in the end, any chance of effective opposition goes if an opposition party starts to lose members from their team.”

But he strives to keep himself grounded. “I have a useful reminder when I get home of how important I am when my eight-year-old daughter says, ‘You’ve been in parliament today, Daddy,’ and I say ‘Yes’. She says, ‘More blah blah blah!’ ” he laughs. “So at least when I step in my front door, I know you can’t get too big for your boots.”

[close]

Looks like May and Labour are both pegging things around the date Cooper suggested as the one where Parliament had to intervene if nothing had been agreed, although probably reasonable to suggest that May is doing it to buy herself a couple more weeks and then look to find a reason to push things further into March. "Negotiations are ongoing" etc etc.

Last night Downing Street confirmed that the government would bring forward a further amendable Brexit motion by February 27 in addition to Thursday’s debate. But it stopped short of promising that this would be a meaningful vote.

Up to 40 government ministers have reportedly told No 10 that they will resign if they are banned from voting against a no-deal Brexit.

Earlier this month the government had avoided mass resignations after the whips bought off rebels by promising that there would be more opportunities to stop the UK from crashing out of the bloc without a deal.

It is understood that the ministers who have threatened to resign in order to block a disorderly Brexit have given the prime minister until the end of the month to come back to the Commons with an acceptable deal.

Pro-EU ministers believe that May is acutely aware that she will need to ask for an extension of article 50 regardless of whether a deal passes before March 29, but wants parliament to force it on her so that she cannot then be blamed.

Sunday Times (paywall)

So options continue to be May's unamended 'deal' followed by an extension to legislate for it, or to seek an extension to negotiate based on what Labour are suggesting while hoping to then secure a majority for accepting May's withdrawal agreement but amending the political declaration to what comes out from the EU explaining the single market to us again and then legislate before end of the extension. Place hopes of a referendum either as a punt of last resort or as part of an agreement for a ratification process. We've had two years to get this sorted. Heh.

[Dr. Beaker]

We will be back m8, Brexit is all about damage limitation. we will never fully recover from it but we will be rejoining the SM+CU and all the conditions that come with it inside 10yr but I expect it to be sooner, whether the EU allow us to rejoin is another matter, I still can't believe how our politicians think they will get away with it. even the pensioners will be screaming blue murder when price rises and inflation hits after all trade deals get ripped up. Brexit will be a election issue until we rejoin.

One of the things I find particularly annoying about the Brexiters that I talk to - and I talk to a lot of them - is that they almost all (now) accept that the country is going to be worse off for a period of time, which is also (now) accepted as being for the longer term rather than the shorter. Their reason for gladly accepting this situation is always the intangible and abstract perceived 'benefit' of 'getting back control',  which can never be adequately defined or articulated by any of them. This dawning reality has hardened their resolve. They see it as the famous bulldog spirit, and themselves as being cut from the same cloth as our heroes of yore. Now they seemingly all want the hardest of  'no deal' Brexits, with extreme prejudice, so to speak.

That they feel free to be so gung-ho with my/our futures, on what can only be described as a whim, is beyond forgiveness - it is an abuse of democracy.

In any public vote, it is normal for people to vote for what is perceived to be better for themselves or the nation in general, but on this occasion people have purposely voted for what is going to be by all practical, measurable means, a situation that will impoverish everyone with absolutely no definable benefit. They have willfully done this to us all. If they were voluntarily just doing this to themselves then good luck to them. This is borderline criminality. It's  like the modern day equivalent of Genghis Khan's hordes having, by some occult means, obtained  democratic legitimacy.

[oldfordie]

One of the things I find particularly annoying about the Brexiters that I talk to - and I talk to a lot of them - is that they almost all (now) accept that the country is going to be worse off for a period of time, which is also (now) accepted as being for the longer term rather than the shorter. Their reason for gladly accepting this situation is always the intangible and abstract perceived 'benefit' of 'getting back control',  which can never be adequately defined or articulated by any of them. This dawning reality has hardened their resolve. They see it as the famous bulldog spirit, and themselves as being cut from the same cloth as our heroes of yore. Now they seemingly all want the hardest of  'no deal' Brexits, with extreme prejudice, so to speak.

That they feel free to be so gung-ho with my/our futures, on what can only be described as a whim, is beyond forgiveness - it is an abuse of democracy.

In any public vote, it is normal for people to vote for what is perceived to be better for themselves or the nation in general, but on this occasion people have purposely voted for what is going to be by all practical, measurable means, a situation that will impoverish everyone with absolutely no definable benefit. They have willfully done this to us all. If they were voluntarily just doing this to themselves then good luck to them. This is borderline criminality. It's  like the modern day equivalent of Genghis Khan's hordes having, by some occult means, obtained  democratic legitimacy.

Brexit will hit us all in different ways. if the people you speak too are pensioners living on company pensions then they are in for a nasty shock. many private pensions are linked to inflation but there is a very low ceiling, less than 4% of 2/3 rds of pension is covered.
the value of their pensions will be wiped out inside 5 yrs. we've enjoyed very low inflation for years but high inflation is a certainty after Brexit, I don't believe the bull... about opening our border to tarrif free goods, it's not going to happen for a couple of reasons.
I know some people will disagree but as we can't control this inflation then interest rates will rise to match it, millions are in for a nasty shock when mortgage payments rise.
It's very noble of leave voters to say they are willing to pay the price, lets see how they react when the fear of not being able to pay the bills becomes a daily worry. 5 yrs is enough to do the damage. this is only part of the fallout as we know, job security will also be a worry. what will our politicians be able to do to stop all this happening.? Sod all.

[Sangria]

One of the things I find particularly annoying about the Brexiters that I talk to - and I talk to a lot of them - is that they almost all (now) accept that the country is going to be worse off for a period of time, which is also (now) accepted as being for the longer term rather than the shorter. Their reason for gladly accepting this situation is always the intangible and abstract perceived 'benefit' of 'getting back control',  which can never be adequately defined or articulated by any of them. This dawning reality has hardened their resolve. They see it as the famous bulldog spirit, and themselves as being cut from the same cloth as our heroes of yore. Now they seemingly all want the hardest of  'no deal' Brexits, with extreme prejudice, so to speak.

That they feel free to be so gung-ho with my/our futures, on what can only be described as a whim, is beyond forgiveness - it is an abuse of democracy.

In any public vote, it is normal for people to vote for what is perceived to be better for themselves or the nation in general, but on this occasion people have purposely voted for what is going to be by all practical, measurable means, a situation that will impoverish everyone with absolutely no definable benefit. They have willfully done this to us all. If they were voluntarily just doing this to themselves then good luck to them. This is borderline criminality. It's  like the modern day equivalent of Genghis Khan's hordes having, by some occult means, obtained  democratic legitimacy.

Corbyn was elected Labour leader on the premise that he would move the Overton window leftwards, and his fans have trumpeted his "success" in doing so. However, the clearest example of the Overton window, with dates and landmark speeches, is the movement of Brexit to mean the hardest of all Brexits, and the denial of this as defying the will of the people.

During the campaign, virtually all Leave campaigners argued that it meant as soft as possible. On the morning of the result, Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of article 50, with the argument that the people had spoken, and that Parliament should implement the result. With this early and consistent argument made by the leader of the opposition who should have been pushing against Leave, the Overton window has moved all the way towards no deal.

Corbyn is at least as culpable as the official Leave campaigners for the hardness of this Brexit, and he is as responsible as they are for the results.

[redbyrdz]

One of the things I find particularly annoying about the Brexiters that I talk to - and I talk to a lot of them - is that they almost all (now) accept that the country is going to be worse off for a period of time, which is also (now) accepted as being for the longer term rather than the shorter. Their reason for gladly accepting this situation is always the intangible and abstract perceived 'benefit' of 'getting back control',  which can never be adequately defined or articulated by any of them. This dawning reality has hardened their resolve. They see it as the famous bulldog spirit, and themselves as being cut from the same cloth as our heroes of yore. Now they seemingly all want the hardest of  'no deal' Brexits, with extreme prejudice, so to speak.

That they feel free to be so gung-ho with my/our futures, on what can only be described as a whim, is beyond forgiveness - it is an abuse of democracy.

In any public vote, it is normal for people to vote for what is perceived to be better for themselves or the nation in general, but on this occasion people have purposely voted for what is going to be by all practical, measurable means, a situation that will impoverish everyone with absolutely no definable benefit. They have willfully done this to us all. If they were voluntarily just doing this to themselves then good luck to them. This is borderline criminality. It's  like the modern day equivalent of Genghis Khan's hordes having, by some occult means, obtained  democratic legitimacy.

They think, the more they will suffer for being British the more British it will make them feel. Which is what they want.

I really hope reality will wake them up. In the same way as going for a cold shower and a run first thing in the morning sounds like a great idea, until you're stood wet, freezing and tired in the dark and realise you can't run for 2 minutes without feeling sick.

[CornerFlag]

"Oh, they'll be rushing to do deals with us" I got from a fella in work today.  Everything I said to ask why they'd be wanting them as soon as the UK's out was just "They will, just wait and see mate".  It genuinely hurts, the level of naivety and borderline stupidity that we're entering this with.  650 elected officials, most of whom wanted to remain, and we're left with the intelligence of John and Sharon leading the way with "Well, we're British, innit.  British is best, innit."

[rob1966]

"Oh, they'll be rushing to do deals with us" I got from a fella in work today.  Everything I said to ask why they'd be wanting them as soon as the UK's out was just "They will, just wait and see mate".  It genuinely hurts, the level of naivety and borderline stupidity that we're entering this with.  650 elected officials, most of whom wanted to remain, and we're left with the intelligence of John and Sharon leading the way with "Well, we're British, innit.  British is best, innit."

My cousin keeps posting stuff on Facebook about the shit the Tories get up to, but I can't seem to get it into his head that this vile bunch will have free reign to fuck anywhere that isn't the South East once we leave.....

[BobOnATank]

Back May’s deal, then hold people’s vote: plan to end Brexit deadlock
Cross-party move likely to be put forward as amendment to EU withdrawal bill

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/09/back-theresa-may-brexit-deal-then-hold-peoples-vote-backbencher-plan

Gives them the excuse that they "delivered" brexit I suppose.

[killer-heels]

Back May’s deal, then hold people’s vote: plan to end Brexit deadlock
Cross-party move likely to be put forward as amendment to EU withdrawal bill

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/09/back-theresa-may-brexit-deal-then-hold-peoples-vote-backbencher-plan

Gives them the excuse that they "delivered" brexit I suppose.

There is zero chance of that getting through to a majority. In fact if thats put forward it will lose by a pitiful amount.

[ShakaHislop]

"Oh, they'll be rushing to do deals with us" I got from a fella in work today.  Everything I said to ask why they'd be wanting them as soon as the UK's out was just "They will, just wait and see mate".  It genuinely hurts, the level of naivety and borderline stupidity that we're entering this with.  650 elected officials, most of whom wanted to remain, and we're left with the intelligence of John and Sharon leading the way with "Well, we're British, innit.  British is best, innit."

- @FT scoop: UK-Japan trade talks stall, raising risks from no-deal Brexit - rpt by @RobinBHarding @Urbandirt. Signs here of a hardening position by Japan and how hard it will be for UK to strike trade deals

https://twitter.com/TonyTassell/status/1093873255910440960

business sources tell me South Korea is also hoping to use its leverage to extract concessions from the UK over a new trade deal: for example only letting UK count EU industrial parts in "rules of origin" calculations if Seoul can count Chinese parts

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1093891993275641856

[Alan_X]

"Oh, they'll be rushing to do deals with us" I got from a fella in work today...

He's not totally wrong:

https://twitter.com/TonyTassell/status/1093873255910440960



https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1093891993275641856

The rest of the world will be looking forward to picking over the bones of our international economic reputation.

[Trada]

Michael Crick
‏Verified account @MichaelLCrick

The worrying, ludicrous thing about Theresa May’s reply to Jeremy Corbyn’s Brexit plan is that it’s been given a “strict” embargo of 10.30 tonight - so it was given out to media this afternoon on the understanding we can’t publish it until 10.30pm.

[HarryLabrador]

Aintree Grand National could be first casualty of no-deal Brexit
30,000 sport horses, excluding thoroughbreds, move across Irish Sea every year
Marie O'Halloran
 
Aintree Racecourse, Liverpool: A tripartite agreement, which currently exists under EU law, allows for the free movement of and trade in horses between Ireland, Britain and France. Photograph: Getty Images   
Aintree Racecourse, Liverpool: A tripartite agreement, which currently exists under EU law, allows for the free movement of and trade in horses between Ireland, Britain and France.

The Aintree Grand National festival could be the first casualty of a no-deal Brexit on March 29th because free movement of horses would no longer be allowed between Ireland and the UK.

A tripartite agreement which currently exists under EU law allows for the movement of and trade in horses between Ireland, Britain and France without veterinary inspections or health certificates.

However, Fine Gael chairman Martin Hoyden has warned this could be “greatly challenged” if there is no deal on the withdrawal of the UK from the EU.

He said the impact on Ireland’s €1 billion equine industry could be similar to the impact on the beef sector “because the Irish and UK markets for the breeding and racing of horses are so interlinked”.

Mr Hoyden, in whose Kildare South constituency the Curragh and a significant slice of the horse breeding industry is based, said the equine industry could be the first affected by no deal by the deadline.

“If there was no deal at the end of March, it would be far more difficult for Irish horses to travel to Aintree the following week for the Grand National festival” which takes place between April 4th and 6th, he said.

And it would get worse, he warned. “Later that month, we want the best of the English horses which have been successful in Cheltenham to come and contest in Punchestown.

“A couple of weeks later we are in the height of the breeding season. Some of the top stallions in the world are found in this country and mares will be travelling to and from this country.”

State aid
Mr Hoyden, in a Dáil parliamentary question, asked Minister for Agriculture Michael Creed if a relaxation of State aid rules would be considered to support the industry.

He also called on Mr Creed to work through Horse Racing Ireland, the national authority for thoroughbred racing, with all those potentially affected both in the short and long term, including the Irish Thoroughbred Breeders Association and racehorse trainers.

Mr Creed said sectors other than the thoroughbred sector would be affected, “because the horse sport sector also sees considerable volume”.

Recent figures suggested that anything up to 30,000 sport horses outside the thoroughbred sector move east to west every year.

Mr Creed said the issue was further complicated by the all-island administration of racing through the Irish Resurfacing Regulatory Board. “There is an all-island stud book for the thoroughbred sector. It is complex,” he said.

He acknowledged that the UK could not be part of the tripartite agreement once it becomes a “third country”.

But he said there was extensive engagement on the issue which would “involve change to the current arrangements but we are endeavouring to make those as user-friendly and efficient as possible”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/aintree-grand-national-could-be-first-casualty-of-no-deal-brexit-1.3788939

[Red-Soldier]

Aintree Grand National could be first casualty of no-deal Brexit
30,000 sport horses, excluding thoroughbreds, move across Irish Sea every year
Marie O'Halloran
 

Horse racing can fuck right off. Barbaric "sport"

[Red-Soldier]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/10/brexit-mps-will-have-another-say-by-end-of-month-says-minister


May rejects Corbyn's offer as businesses warn of Brexit cliff edge

PM’s reply to Labour leader’s letter stresses her objections to UK being in a customs union


Theresa May has effectively ruled out Labour’s ideas for a compromise Brexit plan, shutting off another potential route to a deal as business groups warned that with less than 50 days to go the departure process was entering the “emergency zone”.

The prime minister’s formal response to Jeremy Corbyn’s proposal, in a letter to the Labour leader, stressed her objections to keeping the UK in some form of customs union, saying this would prevent the UK making its own trade deals.




It's more important for the UK to be able to make it's own shitty trade deals, and not be shackled to the Eu's far superior ones!

[Dr. Beaker]

What do we want?
Free movement of horses!
When do we want it?
Before the 2.20 at Fontwell Park!

[Red-Soldier]

What do we want?
Free movement of horses!
When do we want it?
Before the 2.20 at Fontwell Park!

They'll be a load of equines at the Irish border, wont go down well.

[killer-heels]

Would make me laugh if May ran down the clock. When MP’s triggered article 50 and up to this point they were constantly mentioning how parliament would find a way etc. etc.

Such arrogance by them as if they controlled everything.

[oldfordie]

What do we want?
Free movement of horses!
When do we want it?
Before the 2.20 at Fontwell Park!

Some of the horses I back have never heard of freedom of movement

[OneTouchFooty]

They think, the more they will suffer for being British the more British it will make them feel. Which is what they want.

I really hope reality will wake them up. In the same way as going for a cold shower and a run first thing in the morning sounds like a great idea, until you're stood wet, freezing and tired in the dark and realise you can't run for 2 minutes without feeling sick.

I’ve said all along, once you people start taking a hit in their own pocket that’s when, for many, the scales will fall from the eyes and all the nationalistic bravado and denial will subside, of course you’ll always have your hardcore 25/30% but most sensible people will realise they’ve been duped. As you say, it’s a lot easier giving it the big one before the event until the reality hits you in the face.

Just look at America the past week and the number of Trump supporters turning on Trump on social media, who after being promised the tax cuts would leave them better off, are now finding out they’ve been hammered and have seen big increases to their tax bill as lots of previous deductibles have been capped and have screwed them over.

[ShakaHislop]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/10/brexit-mps-will-have-another-say-by-end-of-month-says-minister


May rejects Corbyn's offer as businesses warn of Brexit cliff edge

PM’s reply to Labour leader’s letter stresses her objections to UK being in a customs union


Theresa May has effectively ruled out Labour’s ideas for a compromise Brexit plan, shutting off another potential route to a deal as business groups warned that with less than 50 days to go the departure process was entering the “emergency zone”.

The prime minister’s formal response to Jeremy Corbyn’s proposal, in a letter to the Labour leader, stressed her objections to keeping the UK in some form of customs union, saying this would prevent the UK making its own trade deals.




It's more important for the UK to be able to make it's own shitty trade deals, and not be shackled to the Eu's far superior ones!

Mrs May said securing frictionless trade for goods was "one of our key negotiating objectives".

She added: "The fundamental negotiating challenge here is the EU's position that completely frictionless trade is only possible if the UK stays in the single market.

"This would mean accepting free movement, which Labour's 2017 General Election manifesto made clear you do not support."

Labour also wants the UK to stay in step with the EU if workers' rights improve in Europe.

While the prime minister says existing rights will be protected, there will be no automatic upgrade in line with the EU. Instead, Parliament would be asked if it wanted to follow suit each time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47192233

Glad she's drawn attention to the freedom of movement issue. It'll force Labour to reveal whether it has made a genuine shift in a soft Brexit direction and does now accept the continuation of FOM, or if the leadership is still in cherry picking mode.

The workers rights pledge isn't much for the Labour Brexiteers to point to either.

[Ghost Town]

Surely now Corbyn will have to make a genuine call on a second ref? He's had his big bright idea thrown back in his face with jeers and laughter and piss-taking references to his own Frankenstein manifesto. Has he no self-respect? Doesn't he want to hit back by putting his support behind something that can scupper May's insane suicide pact?

[Ghost Town]

Mostly pissed, as I ever am when I contribute on here, and I'm watching Last Train to Lisbon, with tears threatening at the mere thought of us breaking ties with these rich cultures to the south - not to mention, our oldest ally.

I'm with you Doc

As I've said before, most of the discussion and desperation at the moment is, rightly, about trade and the economy and all that jazz.

But perhaps only in years to come will people begin to see just what an existential own-goal this is as well. How we are proposing to turn away from our own corner of the world, and break ties with those cultures closest to us and most intertwined in our history, our language, and our sense of self. Not to mention to erase a shared but fragile European identity that somewhat unexpectedly, and against-the-odds, took root, sprouted and then was carefully cultivated and allowed to bloom and thrive after a half-century of madness, aggression, war and bloodshed.

And why? Because some people are angry at their situation and want to lash out?

The UK is not just cutting its nose off to spite its face, but also cutting off all it knows to face its spite.