Topic: Pre-match thread: Manchester City vs. Liverpool | 25/11/2023 | 12:30(BST)

[Red Beret]

Urgh. Between shit refs, playing City, an international break and potential injuries, my nerves are going to be shredded by the time of this game.

[The G in Gerrard]

I detest international football outside of the tournaments at the best of times. Don't like breaks.

What did Chelsea do well against City that we can implement?

As Mac is away on international duty, do we go for Endo, Gravenberch and Dom in midfield?

[spider-neil]

I thought we were giving it a good go at their place last season until Robbo dived in and was bypassed and they scored. It was downhill from there.

[slaphead]

Klopp needs to rule out most of our international players with whatever injuury springs to mind.  Meaningless international distractions from prep for a massive game.

The problem is most players absolutely love playing for their country. We hate internationals but listen to most players speak and they love it.

[Dr. Beaker]

Thanks OP.

Feeling confident going into this unlike last season because we've done our job by beating teams we should beat (Newcastle makes up for Luton).

Why am I confident? Because we have tools to hurt them:
1. They are vulnerable to transitions and we're very quick in midfield and attack.
2. They'll press but we have more solutions with the guile of the likes of Grav, Szobo and Darwin's pace.
3. They've looked very beatable so far. In fact, they've regressed IMO.

Let's go for it because we have qualities that they fear. I'd start Grav, Darwin and Diaz because we need that pace and power to hurt their slow defensive spine (Rodri, Dias and Ake?)

Gvardiol looks awkward and Mo would love to play against him.

I want to see more posts like this.

[Knight]

Take a draw every day of the week here. Although if City go on a monster spring run as normal we might need to have a head start on them.

[thaddeus]

I detest international football outside of the tournaments at the best of times. Don't like breaks.

What did Chelsea do well against City that we can implement?

As Mac is away on international duty, do we go for Endo, Gravenberch and Dom in midfield?

They pressed relentlessly and won possession high up frequently.  We're better at that than Chelsea.

In some ways it's a shame as it provided a dress rehearsal for when Man City play us but equally it might have knocked their seemingly unshakable confidence to have been cut open so frequently.  It was such a contrast to the way they breezed through the Manchester derby.

[Gus 1855]

Not sure the 12:30 kick off doesn't actually suit us here.

They'll have players away too, as do we, the early kick off will make the atmosphere there even crapper. We'll be up for it being able to go top and hopefully a few players back.

From purely the perspective of getting a result, I think I'd rather a 12:30am kick off on saturday versus these than a 4pm on Sunday.

[killer-heels]

Not sure the 12:30 kick off doesn't actually suit us here.

They'll have players away too, as do we, the early kick off will make the atmosphere there even crapper. We'll be up for it being able to go top and hopefully a few players back.

From purely the perspective of getting a result, I think I'd rather a 12:30am kick off on saturday versus these than a 4pm on Sunday.

We have lost heavily in two early games there during when Klopp and Guardiola have been in charge from what I recall.  5-1 in 17-18 and 4-1 last season.

[slaphead]

I want to see more posts like this.

Thanks OP.

Feeling confident going into this unlike last season because we've done our job by beating teams we should beat (Newcastle makes up for Luton).

Why am I confident? Because we have tools to hurt them:
1. They are vulnerable to transitions and we're very quick in midfield and attack.
2. They'll press but we have more solutions with the guile of the likes of Grav, Szobo and Darwin's pace.
3. They've looked very beatable so far. In fact, they've regressed IMO.

Let's go for it because we have qualities that they fear. I'd start Grav, Darwin and Diaz because we need that pace and power to hurt their slow defensive spine (Rodri, Dias and Ake?)

Gvardiol looks awkward and Mo would love to play against him.

[Gus 1855]

We have lost heavily in two early games there during when Klopp and Guardiola have been in charge from what I recall.  5-1 in 17-18 and 4-1 last season.

Do you think that's a reason to indicate how we'll do this time round?

From memory in 17-18 we had Mane sent off early doors and up to that point had competed well. Our defence was Moreno, Klavan, Matip and a young Trent.

Last year was just last year, we were crap.

[StevoHimself]

Do we ever win here?

Was unable to watch the match last year and was very suprised to see we had gone ahead via a Salah goal. Remember walking past that restaurant Piccola near the Litherland Tesco and seeing images of City players celebrating a goal on the tele in there, before reading about successive goals on my phone. Was a slightly depressing walk home.

[Zlen]

Easiest way to ensure we’re up there at the end of the season is to take points off these in both games. No fear, leave nothing out there, give them nothing. Fucking into the cheating fucks.

[jillcwhomever]

Do we ever win here?

Was unable to watch the match last year and was very suprised to see we had gone ahead via a Salah goal. Remember walking past that restaurant Piccola near the Litherland Tesco and seeing images of City players celebrating a goal on the tele in there, before reading about successive goals on my phone. Was a slightly depressing walk home.

We have won there in the past, but it's going back now. I remember Coutinho scoring a beauty with some lovely play with Bobby. But I think that was early on in Klopp's reign, we really need to break the voodoo.

[StevoHimself]

We have won there in the past, but it's going back now. I remember Coutinho scoring a beauty with some lovely play with Bobby. But I think that was early on in Klopp's reign, we really need to break the voodoo.

Am I wrong for thinking the goal he scored in that game might have been Bobby's first for us?

[the BIG fella]

How is everyone's ring piece going in to this one? lol

[Crosby Nick]

Am I wrong for thinking the goal he scored in that game might have been Bobby's first for us?

It was.

The defeat in 17/18 was actually 5-0, not 5-1 but it was the game Sadio was red carded for having the cheek not to expect an ugly grock if a keeper to be hurtling through the air 20 yards outside his box. We did then win their in the Champions League later the same season but haven’t won there since.

[A-Bomb]

What with City's upcoming fixtures i think it's important we just take some points off them whether that be a draw or preferably a win.

Keeping the pressure on their form and hopefully maintaining their reduction in building any momentum with back to back wins.

Toughest game of our season in the league these away should be.

Would be absolutely fabulous if Nunez had a Torres away at OT type of performance.

[SamLad]

What with City's upcoming fixtures i think it's important we just take some points off them whether that be a draw or preferably a win.

Keeping the pressure on their form and hopefully maintaining their reduction in building any momentum with back to back wins.

Toughest game of our season in the league these away should be.

Would be absolutely fabulous if Nunez had a Torres away at OT type of performance.

or how about a Nunez away at NUFC type of performance? 

come on late in what looks like a lost cause and rip them to bits, leave 'em gasping on the ground.  can you imagine the Bald meltdown?? 

[jillcwhomever]

I know what I want, a Joe Gomez winner! What a place to score your first Liverpool goal. 🤣

[Jookie]

We ended 2022/23 with 7th best away record in PL. 9th best away from home in goals conceded.

On a ppg record I think we have the 8th best record in PL so far this season.

On a goals conceded per game we are currently joint 7th best.

For the last 5 PL winners the average goals conceded away from home in a season is 14, with the most being 17. Even title winners don’t batter teams regularly away from home. It’s about grinding out wins most of the time based on defensive solidity.

We’ve not kept a clean sheet away from home in any game. Conceded 8 in 6 away in PL. That type of record is trending towards conceding a fair few over 20 away from home in the PL.

Unless we tighten up defensively away from home then we have virtually no chance of winning PL. City away is the ultimate test in that regard. I’d take a 4-4 draw now but in reality for potential long term success we need to show our defensive solidity away from home. Go to City and get a clean sheet. Keep the goals against in remaining 13 PL away games to 12 or less. If we don’t then we just won’t accumulate enough points away from home to be a team that breaks 85 points, nevermind 90.

[thaddeus]

We ended 2022/23 with 7th best away record in PL. 9th best away from home in goals conceded.

On a ppg record I think we have the 8th best record in PL so far this season.

On a goals conceded per game we are currently joint 7th best.

For the last 5 PL winners the average goals conceded away from home in a season is 14, with the most being 17. Even title winners don’t batter teams regularly away from home. It’s about grinding out wins most of the time based on defensive solidity.

We’ve not kept a clean sheet away from home in any game. Conceded 8 in 6 away in PL. That type of record is trending towards conceding a fair few over 20 away from home in the PL.

Unless we tighten up defensively away from home then we have virtually no chance of winning PL. City away is the ultimate test in that regard. I’d take a 4-4 draw now but in reality for potential long term success we need to show our defensive solidity away from home. Go to City and get a clean sheet. Keep the goals against in remaining 13 PL away games to 12 or less. If we don’t then we just won’t accumulate enough points away from home to be a team that breaks 85 points, nevermind 90.

It probably belongs in the Klopp template topic but I am a bit surprised we don't play a more counter-attacking style away from home.  Parking the bus, timewasting and generally ruining a game of football is fine when you're the away side but most teams have a bit of a go at home.  We have incredibly mobile forwards and incisive passers throughout the team.

I guess Klopp's approach is that we go and impose our style on any game and, giving the great man the credit he deserves, we've not done too bad by playing that way and our games are never boring!

[Jookie]

It probably belongs in the Klopp template topic but I am a bit surprised we don't play a more counter-attacking style away from home.  Parking the bus, timewasting and generally ruining a game of football is fine when you're the away side but most teams have a bit of a go at home.  We have incredibly mobile forwards and incisive passers throughout the team.

I guess Klopp's approach is that we go and impose our style on any game and, giving the great man the credit he deserves, we've not done too bad by playing that way and our games are never boring!

Even in 2019/20 we won the majority of our away games by 1 goal and by a 1-0 or 2-1 score line )8 out of 14 wins).

In 14 away wins we only won by more than 2 goals on 3 occasions.

Kept 8 clean sheets and conceded less than 2 goals in 16 out of 19 PL games. We’ve already got 2 league games were we’ve conceded 2 goals in a game.

We were scintillating at times but away from home we were more about defensive stability.

People will say it’s harsh comparing this current team to 2019/20. It is. But it’s really to emphasise what it takes to beat this City side. You can smash most teams at home but if you can’t grind out wins away through control of games and defensive solidity then you’ll ultimately come up short due to lack of points away from home.

That’s the challenge for this team. Not just the defence. The team including Klopp and the coaches. How do you marry scintillating performances at home with being a solid machine away from Anfield? That might come as this team matures over the season or it may require tactical and personnel tweaks over a longer period. At this point it’s the biggest internal challenge facing this current team.

[Knight]

Even in 2019/20 we won the majority of our away games by 1 goal and by a 1-0 or 2-1 score line )8 out of 14 wins).

In 14 away wins we only won by more than 2 goals on 3 occasions.

Kept 8 clean sheets and conceded less than 2 goals in 16 out of 19 PL games. We’ve already got 2 league games were we’ve conceded 2 goals in a game.

We were scintillating at times but away from home we were more about defensive stability.

People will say it’s harsh comparing this current team to 2019/20. It is. But it’s really to emphasise what it takes to beat this City side. You can smash most teams at home but if you can’t grind out wins away through control of games and defensive solidity then you’ll ultimately come up short due to lack of points away from home.

That’s the challenge for this team. Not just the defence. The team including Klopp and the coaches. How do you marry scintillating performances at home with being a solid machine away from Anfield? That might come as this team matures over the season or it may require tactical and personnel tweaks over a longer period. At this point it’s the biggest internal challenge facing this current team.

Good stuff Jookie, very helpful context.

[Fromola]

I thought we were giving it a good go at their place last season until Robbo dived in and was bypassed and they scored. It was downhill from there.

Problem as well last season was we didn't have 90 minutes physically in us and put what we had physically into the first half. City could just up the gears. Hopefully the likes of Jones and Grav are back in training this week and up to speed.                                                                                                         

That being 12:30 after an international break didn't help either.

[Fromola]

Even in 2019/20 we won the majority of our away games by 1 goal and by a 1-0 or 2-1 score line )8 out of 14 wins).

In 14 away wins we only won by more than 2 goals on 3 occasions.

Kept 8 clean sheets and conceded less than 2 goals in 16 out of 19 PL games. We’ve already got 2 league games were we’ve conceded 2 goals in a game.

We were scintillating at times but away from home we were more about defensive stability.

People will say it’s harsh comparing this current team to 2019/20. It is. But it’s really to emphasise what it takes to beat this City side. You can smash most teams at home but if you can’t grind out wins away through control of games and defensive solidity then you’ll ultimately come up short due to lack of points away from home.

That’s the challenge for this team. Not just the defence. The team including Klopp and the coaches. How do you marry scintillating performances at home with being a solid machine away from Anfield? That might come as this team matures over the season or it may require tactical and personnel tweaks over a longer period. At this point it’s the biggest internal challenge facing this current team.

You need that spine first and foremost. Ali, Virg (Gomez/Matip had great periods of form next to him) and Fabinho/Henderson gave us a great solid defensive structure and Bobby from the front.

There needs to be a resoluteness to the team, difficult to create chances against, excellent game management. Instead, we rely too much on Ali keeping them out or Virg/Konate winning everything and mopping up.

A key factor that season was we used VAR to our advantage with the highline and offside trap. We used that to squeeze teams and play them offside all the time. Since then the 'don't put your flag up' rule came in, which puts us under pressure from one ball over the top, even if it's offside.

[The G in Gerrard]

They pressed relentlessly and won possession high up frequently.  We're better at that than Chelsea.

In some ways it's a shame as it provided a dress rehearsal for when Man City play us but equally it might have knocked their seemingly unshakable confidence to have been cut open so frequently.  It was such a contrast to the way they breezed through the Manchester derby.

Yeah we are better at pressing.

Will the lack of preparation for both sides (us in particular) help even things out? How are City at lunchtime games?

[jillcwhomever]

We ended 2022/23 with 7th best away record in PL. 9th best away from home in goals conceded.

On a ppg record I think we have the 8th best record in PL so far this season.

On a goals conceded per game we are currently joint 7th best.

For the last 5 PL winners the average goals conceded away from home in a season is 14, with the most being 17. Even title winners don’t batter teams regularly away from home. It’s about grinding out wins most of the time based on defensive solidity.

We’ve not kept a clean sheet away from home in any game. Conceded 8 in 6 away in PL. That type of record is trending towards conceding a fair few over 20 away from home in the PL.

Unless we tighten up defensively away from home then we have virtually no chance of winning PL. City away is the ultimate test in that regard. I’d take a 4-4 draw now but in reality for potential long term success we need to show our defensive solidity away from home. Go to City and get a clean sheet. Keep the goals against in remaining 13 PL away games to 12 or less. If we don’t then we just won’t accumulate enough points away from home to be a team that breaks 85 points, nevermind 90.

Interesting post, another point is we will not have Salah for most of January which has some key games in it and we really need to hope that our other forwards are still scoring freely.

[Jookie]

Interesting post, another point is we will not have Salah for most of January which has some key games in it and we really need to hope that our other forwards are still scoring freely.

Not that worried about Salah being away for a short time. We know we have goals in this squad outside of Salah.

The key is making sure you don’t need to score 2 or 3  away game to have a chance of winning on a regular basis. Even against the lesser teams that isn’t always possible even with a great array of attacking talent.

We have a World Class goalkeeper and probably best CB in PL.I think our primary CB and full back options are good. So what’s our issue defensively away from home? Other personnel? Tactics? Attitude? Team still developing?

It’s unlikely 1 thing and probably a combination. Think it’s a reductive argument to suggest it’s Trent’s positioning or lack of 6 as the sole reason. On the other hand it’s something that definitely needs fixing/evolving.

In the context of the season and the City game, it’s my main concern. I wouldn’t be surprised if we beat City 4-2 or get whacked 4-0. Think both are possible due to our strengths and weaknesses. I’d be amazed to see a cagey 1-0 or 0-0.

[BoRed]

Not that worried about Salah being away for a short time.

I think he'll miss at most four league games, but that includes Chelsea at home and Arsenal away.

[Dougle]

Lovely OP mate.

So it seems as if (from reading previous posts) Gvardiol, Emerson and Kovacic have all withdrawn from the internationals. 1-0 City before the game kicks off !

Right now we're at the wrong end of the international drivel at this stage so we'll see how our lot do, allover the world, (while City rest up).

Bullshit another 12.30 kick off, obviously.

Been musing to myself about pressing and transition. Looking back at the Brentford game they got around us quite frequently and effectively though we did score our first from the press. That's my main worry against City. They are comfortable and clever on the ball from 1 to 11. I don't think we are collectively coherent yet on the pressing and if we lose this is where we lose. On the other hand, with Jones, Gravenberch, Konate, Macca all back and available and wild 5 up front then, literally, anything is possible and we can probably physically match them for 100 minutes with the bench we will have.

I think if we get a fair shake from the refs etc (!!!!) then we could do some real damage here and a win is deffo possible.

[Oh Jimmy Jimmy]

I think Jurgen will need to ignore the South American outfield players and plan his team without them - so Gravenberch in a double pivot with Endo and Dom sitting on Rodri to stop them playing. Have Coady as  a false 9 with Jota and Mo as inside forwards ready to pounce on with quick transitions  - that’s a weakness of theirs.

Gomez at left back to stop Foden turning inside and tell Trent he’s the best right back in the world, to stay put and make sure Doku or Grealish don’t have any space. Defend deeper than usual to also deny Harland any space and we have a half plan.

This is the game though where our lack of a proper Fabinho replacement will probably hurt us. But having Darwin to bring on after 60 minutes and with our firepower, could see it as a high scoring draw or us even shading it if we do all the above in terms of negating them.

[Caps4444]

I think Jurgen will need to ignore the South American outfield players and plan his team without them - so Gravenberch in a double pivot with Endo and Dom sitting on Rodri to stop them playing. Have Coady as  a false 9 with Jota and Mo as inside forwards ready to pounce on with quick transitions  - that’s a weakness of theirs.

Gomez at left back to stop Foden turning inside and tell Trent he’s the best right back in the world, to stay put and make sure Doku or Grealish don’t have any space. Defend deeper than usual to also deny Harland any space and we have a half plan.

This is the game though where our lack of a proper Fabinho replacement will probably hurt us. But having Darwin to bring on after 60 minutes and with our firepower, could see it as a high scoring draw or us even shading it if we do all the above in terms of negating them.

Agree….Endo, Grav and Dom in midfield.

Mo, Jota and Cody..,although I would be tempted to play Darwin from the start…his pace will useful at 0-0.
If we are a goal down, I can see City playing deep and his pace as a sub won’t be so useful.

[4pool]

This is Oil Cheats first time at 12:30 kickoff this season. Whereas our players have had this twice and know the routine, theirs don't.

It took us until the second half v Wolves to get going. Versus Everton, we got going sooner to the point they had a man sent off first half. Versus City our lads will know how to be prepared.

Also, because it's about two weeks from when we played last, same as City, Pep has that time to mull over 2.4 million variations of possibilities and line ups. We're in his head as it is. He and his team will be a wreck by the time we play them. 

[Kansti]

Player to watch/stop is Foden. That lil fucker's always in god-mode against us. They always have a player that seem to turn it up a notch whenever they face us, it used to be Sane.

[the_red_pill]

I detest international football outside of the tournaments at the best of times. Don't like breaks.

What did Chelsea do well against City that we can implement?

As Mac is away on international duty, do we go for Endo, Gravenberch and Dom in midfield?

4

1  <-- swarmed him/that area (lots of space on either side of him)

x

x

And the wingers stayed out wide at times- stretching City.
I don't think we can afford not to go with Endo at least. It would be suicide not to go with a recognized DM against this lot. (On the other hand, they might target Endo)

[RogerTheRed]

Come on Redmen!!
Great insights and thoughts Grobb, December always look very inviting, but we need to deliver on them! Make or break as you say.
Good thing about SA matches is they are all Tuesday so players should be back late Weds allowing for time difference and get two training sessions I think.
I also agree about the need to be more solid and think Trent should revert to RB and we go Endo and Mac behind four who go to win the game.
Their withdrawals look a piss take, hopefully our list clear up just as quickly.

[spider-neil]

It’s mad that one of the biggest games of the season is put on at a time when both teams are at their best. To be fair, the game was originally scheduled for 5.30 but the police suggested it move to an earlier time slot.

[Fromola]

It’s mad that one of the biggest games of the season is put on at a time when both teams are at their best. To be fair, the game was originally scheduled for 5.30 but the police suggested it move to an earlier time slot.

Wondered why it wasn't the Sunday 16:30 but seen City are playing on the Tuesday which would necessitate a Saturday game.

I see Sky and TNT have flipped their fixtures on Saturday so Sky get the 12:30 game. Sky wouldn't have compromised otherwise. They'll probably get a bigger audience share at 12:30 as well, the downside is the actual football match will be shit. If it meant TNT got the game Sky would have stood their ground.

[Qston]

This City team can be got at - and that has been the case since Pip arrived. They do struggle when teams actually have a go at them - Chelsea at the weekend did and at times City looked like they could have conceded even more. This is especially so against pace - and that is something we have in abundance. Nunez could have a field day if he is fit and ready.

I really do think that we will get a result there.