Topic: Dejan Lovren

[Frizzo]

Its so frustrating for players to have a good run of form, and as soon as they have one bad game they just get leapt upon.

Even worse is the way people have their "favourites" and just wait for them to have a bad game so that they can slaughter them. A truly bizarre way to "support" a football club.

[Medellin]

I did wonder why he came off yesterday.
Seems the lad is hamstrung.
Get well soon Dejan.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

There are many reasons why I think Lovren isn't a good defender. Here are a few:

Not good at 1v1 defending.
Doesn't read the game well.
Rushes out to challenge, only to be easily bypassed, exposing space behind him.
Needs a partner to direct him and lead him.
Not much of a passer.
Reads the game rather poorly.

Does well:

Slide tackles by the touchline.

He's pretty much Skrtel.

[harryc]

There are many reasons why I think Lovren isn't a good defender. Here are a few:

Not good at 1v1 defending.
Doesn't read the game well.
Rushes out to challenge, only to be easily bypassed, exposing space behind him.
Needs a partner to direct him and lead him.
Not much of a passer.
Reads the game rather poorly.

Does well:

Slide tackles by the touchline.

He's pretty much Skrtel.

That's a bit harsh mate he's not that bad................well with Matip next to him at least.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

That last bit is key. He should be able to stand on his own, but I don't think he is. He didn't even manage to look decent yesterday, with Matip next to him. THe gulf in class between him and Matip yesterday was almost comical. In a tragic way.

[Funky_Gibbons]

There are many reasons why I think Lovren isn't a good defender. Here are a few:

Not good at 1v1 defending.
Doesn't read the game well.
Rushes out to challenge, only to be easily bypassed, exposing space behind him.
Needs a partner to direct him and lead him.
Not much of a passer.
Reads the game rather poorly.

Does well:

Slide tackles by the touchline.

He's pretty much Skrtel.

So you're accusing of Lovren of rushing into challenges (ie front foot defending) and then compare him to Skrtel who is back foot defender, slightly contradictory.

Not sure he had anyone beside him directing and leading when we got to two cup finals either. 

[killer-heels]

Picks up a fair few injuries as well.

[hide5seek]

We could do a lot better than him and hopefully we will.

[gatcliffe]

We could do a lot better than him and hopefully we will.

Yes we could to a degree, however he is in our squad and we have to use him the best we can.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

So you're accusing of Lovren of rushing into challenges (ie front foot defending) and then compare him to Skrtel who is back foot defender, slightly contradictory.

Not sure he had anyone beside him directing and leading when we got to two cup finals either. 

It isn't front foot defending when you charge out without thinking. Front foot defending is what Matip does. Anticipates the pass and steps up and wins the ball.

There are more similiarities than differences between the two. 5 out of the 6 I mentioned IMO.  Neither is/was good enough if we want to compete for the biggest prizes.

[Funky_Gibbons]

It isn't front foot defending when you charge out without thinking. Front foot defending is what Matip does. Anticipates the pass and steps up and wins the ball.

There are more similiarities than differences between the two. 5 out of the 6 I mentioned IMO.  Neither is/was good enough if we want to compete for the biggest prizes.

Both Matip and Lovren are front foot defenders, Lovren wins plenty of challenges when he challenges, he gets beaten a few times but that's the risk with that style. Matip has been caught out a few times when he's challenged high and the goalkeeper has saved him, that's the risk.

Once again, we got to two cup finals last season with Lovren in defence and are challenging this year so your last sentance doesn't hold up. 

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Both Matip and Lovren are front foot defenders, Lovren wins plenty of challenges when he challenges, he gets beaten a few times but that's the risk with that style. Matip has been caught out a few times when he's challenged high and the goalkeeper has saved him, that's the risk.

Once again, we got to two cup finals last season with Lovren in defence and are challenging this year so your last sentance doesn't hold up. 

Well. I don't agree with your assessment regarding that. Lovren is a weak link in our defence, I stand by that.

[Coolie High]

Both Matip and Lovren are front foot defenders, Lovren wins plenty of challenges when he challenges, he gets beaten a few times but that's the risk with that style. Matip has been caught out a few times when he's challenged high and the goalkeeper has saved him, that's the risk.

Once again, we got to two cup finals last season with Lovren in defence and are challenging this year so your last sentance doesn't hold up.

It does we lost two finals with him and won one with Djimi, being able to compete over the course of a season is different and i think last poster is right in regards to that, we do need better in that central defence, a lot can be said about the overall structure and team shape, but the truth is if we're going to play the way we do then we really do need Matips partner to be near his level, which Lovren isn't.

[Funky_Gibbons]

It does we lost two finals with him and won one with Djimi, being able to compete over the course of a season is different and i think last poster is right in regards to that, we do need better in that central defence, a lot can be said about the overall structure and team shape, but the truth is if we're going to play the way we do then we really do need Matips partner to be near his level, which Lovren isn't.

He said competing for the biggest prizes, getting to two finals is competing.

If we had a goalkeeper who could save shots we would have won our last two games and things would look very different.

[OptoMystik]

He said competing for the biggest prizes, getting to two finals is competing.

If we had a goalkeeper who could save shots we would have won our last two games and things would look very different.

Agreed.

[So… Howard Philips]

I thought he looked a bit slow when Antonio muscled past him early in the second half. Feeling an injury then?

By the way Karius made a good save from that shot.

[newterp]

I thought he looked a bit slow when Antonio muscled past him early in the second half. Feeling an injury then?

By the way Karius made a good save from that shot.

kind of hard for him to have been muscled past in the second half - since he was subbed at half time. 

[pjk66]

keeps on picking up these little knocks which is frustrating. think he can be good for us but seems to be lacking that bit of consistency. picking up a hamstring, or a virus, or that black eye really doesn't having a settled back 4.

[M7 Heckler]

Well. I don't agree with your assessment regarding that. Lovren is a weak link in our defence, I stand by that.

Yep. If we get someone like van Dijk in, hes not coming in to replace matip, thats for sure.

Matip is a hungry hippo, he just gobbles everything up. what happened for the second goal yesterday will probably never ever happen again. Lovren does that kind of thing once a game pretty much. We will be a lot stronger when we have a better CB alongside joel.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

He said competing for the biggest prizes, getting to two finals is competing.

If we had a goalkeeper who could save shots we would have won our last two games and things would look very different.

Neither the EL or domestic cups qualify as the biggest prizes in my book.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Neither the EL or domestic cups qualify as the biggest prizes in my book.

Usual caveats 

We should probably delete those trophies from our history

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Usual caveats 

We should probably delete those trophies from our history

Perhaps I should have written "winning" instead of "competing for". I get that you are pleased with him, I am not and think we need a better partner for Matip if we ever want to reach the top.

Don't try to put words in my mouth. You know as well as I do that CL and league titles weigh more than League cups, that's not to say I'm not happy about winning a league cup title. I could put words in your mouth and say that, hey, if you're happy winning a League cup here and an FA cup there, lets not try to improve our team. But I won't.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Perhaps I should have written "winning" instead of "competing for". I get that you are pleased with him, I am not and think we need a better partner for Matip if we ever want to reach the top.

Don't try to put words in my mouth. You know as well as I do that CL and league titles weigh more than League cups, that's not to say I'm not happy about winning a league cup title. I could put words in your mouth and say that, hey, if you're happy winning a League cup here and an FA cup there, lets not try to improve our team. But I won't.

The difference is though I’ve never said I’d be happy to only win the a league cup here and an FA cup there, but then I forgot we're challenging for the league at the minute too.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

The difference is though I’ve never said I’d be happy to only win the a league cup here and an FA cup there, but then I forgot we're challenging for the league at the minute too.

Ok then all is hunky dory.

[keswick]

Lovren wont be a starter next season.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Is he fit for the Boro game?

[SwissV]

Is he fit for the Boro game?

Should be. Quoting Klopp "Lovern was cramp, he told me he wanted to play, but I told him I want to play too and I haven't been able to for 20mins." 

[redtel]

Should be. Quoting Klopp "Lovern was cramp, he told me he wanted to play, but I told him I want to play too and I haven't been able to for 20mins." 

Klopp said 20 years not minutes!

Lovren is fine as a squad player who can play in Cup games against weaker teams.

I hope Klaven starts tomorrow as he looks composed on the ball and can pass much more accurately than Lovren. He played well against the hammers and also in the LC games.

If he does play at The Riverside and our defence holds up he may retain his place at Woodison. I can't remember him messing up in games except at Burnley where his partnership with Lovren looked weak.

If we are looking to strengthen our attacking options next month I think we are stuck with the CBs we have for this season. It's up to them to show they can make a decent partnership with Matip.

[So… Howard Philips]

kind of hard for him to have been muscled past in the second half - since he was subbed at half time. 

Don't know how I mistook the first half for the second. We won the 2nd half didn't we?

[clinical]

Lovren is much better than when he arrived. However still don't think he's anywhere near Matip level for example. He does some stupid stuff still

[Wool]

He has such an annoying habit of receiving the ball, having plenty of options to pass to, only to twat the ball up field to no-one in particular.

[SwordInYourGut]

He isn't half as bad as some say but he's no Matip either

[hide5seek]

The difference is though I’ve never said I’d be happy to only win the a league cup here and an FA cup there, but then I forgot we're challenging for the league at the minute too.

Are we? Someone should tell the players.

[il_principino]

Plus he scored that memorable dortmund goal...

[Funky_Gibbons]

Bossed Lukaku

[IndianRed]

Should've fucking booted Barkley in the face for that tackle on Hendo!! But was completely and utterly dominant tonight. Especially when we were under siege in that opening 25 minutes by a bombardment of blueshite long balls and crosses.

[gerrardisgod]

MOTM for me, so dominant, good on the ball bar the odd misplaced long ball.

[Dim Glas]

superb he was, both him and Ragnar.

Loved his intensity for the goal celebration too 

[Cpt_Reina]

Two clean sheets and two good performances without Matip.

Who knew?!

[Red-Soldier]

Dominant tonight.