Topic: Brexit. the Con continues

[Trump's tiny tiny hands]

Wife didn’t make it in time to my kids swimming lessons because of traffic caused by idiots queueing for gas 

[rob1966]

Get out of here with logic !

That is a beautiful point though.

... Is it just EU ones? I assumed it was, but why not get us some from anywhere.

Along with the HGV licence, you need a driver CPC qualification to drive a truck in the UK, the only drivers who have that outside of the UK are EU drivers.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Get out of here with logic !

That is a beautiful point though.

... Is it just EU ones? I assumed it was, but why not get us some from anywhere.

I think we've had enough of logic.

[Jiminy Cricket]

I hope kier phrases it like that at pmq.
Kier should really position labour as anti brexit now.

It's a shame that Labour voted for the negotiated Brexit agreement (when they could have abstained). Rather dilutes or even negates potential criticism from the Labour Party.

[oldfordie]

It's a shame that Labour voted for the negotiated Brexit agreement (when they could have abstained). Rather dilutes or even negates potential criticism from the Labour Party.

I can't remember the whole situation at the time. was their a chance of Johnsons deal failing without Labours backing, think that was the worry at the time but not certain.
 I know the choice was either Johnsons awful deal or a no deal. no win situation choice, do you want a awful deal or a catastrophic deal, depends on your priority's I suppose, a catastrophic deal that would bring chaos very quickly etc but all the blame could be thrown at the Torys, great for the Labour party but a tragedy for the people of this country. the other choice was to accept the no win situation and vote to make sure Johnsons deal passes to avoid a no deal. am certainly not praising Starmer for the choice the party made but I imagine we could have been talking about Starmer whipping his MPs to vote for a no deal so he's a hypocrite criticizing Johnson for all the chaos as Johnsons deal would have avoided that chaos.

[Jiminy Cricket]

I can't remember the whole situation at the time. was their a chance of Johnsons deal failing without Labours backing, think that was the worry at the time but not certain.
 I know the choice was either Johnsons awful deal or a no deal. no win situation choice, do you want a awful deal or a catastrophic deal, depends on your priority's I suppose, a catastrophic deal that would bring chaos very quickly etc but all the blame could be thrown at the Torys, great for the Labour party but a tragedy for the people of this country. the other choice was to accept the no win situation and vote to make sure Johnsons deal passes to avoid a no deal. am certainly not praising Starmer for the choice the party made but I imagine we could have been talking about Starmer whipping his MPs to vote for a no deal so he's a hypocrite criticizing Johnson for all the chaos as Johnsons deal would have avoided that chaos.

Only if Labour voted against it. Abstention would have set exactly the right tone. That is, although Labour thought the deal was dreadful, to have actually voted against it probably would have lead to a hard Brexit with no transitional arrangements. And to vote for it would (and did) imply that Labour thought the deal was a good one. This was all hashed out here at the time. It is a mystery to me why the PLP were whipped into voting for it. Should have stayed out of it and let the Tories own it alone.

[oldfordie]

Only if Labour voted against it. Abstention would have set exactly the right tone. That is, although Labour thought the deal was dreadful, to have actually voted against it probably would have lead to a hard Brexit with no transitional arrangements. And to vote for it would (and did) imply that Labour thought the deal was a good one. This was all hashed out here at the time. It is a mystery to me why the PLP were whipped into voting for it. Should have stayed out of it and let the Tories own it alone.

I think Starmer probably did make a mistake as his reasons for whipping to support the deal are complicated, we had left the EU so the situation had changed from previous votes, it was Johnsons deal or a no deal choice,  I don't think the vote passing was a foregone conclusion at the time as people did doubt the ERG etc support, Starmer basically put country before party. having said that wasn't this Johnsons plan all along, leave things to the last possible second to leave us no options, his deal or a no deal. I would have gone abstain or free vote but at the end of the day the damage had already been done.

[Brissyred]

You won't find British drivers in the 3rd or 4th lane, we know not to drive in there.

Come on Rob, that's bullshit. My dad was a lorry driver and I spent many a school holiday in his cab listening to him rant about hgv's doing the wrong thing, including running in the outside lane.
I did a short stint as a lorry driver when I finished my apprenticeship  and I saw plenty of hgv's in the outside lane, remember this was back when foreign drivers were very unusual.
It's the equivalent of saying all Liverpool supporters are angels...

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Come on Rob, that's bullshit. My dad was a lorry driver and I spent many a school holiday in his cab listening to him rant about hgv's doing the wrong thing, including running in the outside lane.
I did a short stint as a lorry driver when I finished my apprenticeship  and I saw plenty of hgv's in the outside lane, remember this was back when foreign drivers were very unusual.
It's the equivalent of saying all Liverpool supporters are angels...

I've been driving for 40 years and I have yet to see a HGV in the fast lane of the Motorway and I've driven North and South, East and West, Scotland, Wales and even Down south where people can't drive for shite.

[rob1966]

Come on Rob, that's bullshit. My dad was a lorry driver and I spent many a school holiday in his cab listening to him rant about hgv's doing the wrong thing, including running in the outside lane.
I did a short stint as a lorry driver when I finished my apprenticeship  and I saw plenty of hgv's in the outside lane, remember this was back when foreign drivers were very unusual.
It's the equivalent of saying all Liverpool supporters are angels...

There are still the odd dickhead, but when your dad was driving the motorways weren't covered in CCTV cameras so you could get away with that and didn't have VOSA monitoring and doing their best to find any old excuse to hit drivers with fines. Only time I ever see HGVs in lane 3 is where the M6 toll rejoins the M42 and a driver who has been in Lane 2 ends up stuck there as its now lane 3 and cars won't let them across.

Dashcams, cctv, GPS trackers, digital tachographs have all changed things. I got an infringement this year for speeding, hit 62mph going downhill on the M6, your Dad would not have ever been caught for doing that.

[rob1966]

See ministers are urging drivers to return. Once again the c*nts aren't listening, people don't want to do the fucking job you inbred c*nts. Why take a job paying £10 an hour to drive around the UK being treated like shit when you can earn more in an amazon warehouse

[TSC]

So reportedly c100k HGV drivers short and in the midst of shortages across various sectors inc obviously fuel, government’s ‘solution’ is to allow up to 10k in by relaxing visa restrictions.  Beyond the inadequacy of the numbers further devil is  in the detail as ever of course.  Only applies to the haulier and poultry industries.  All part of this years version of ‘Boris saves (destroys) Xmas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58694004

This government may think there are hordes of workers desperate to escape the EU and work here up to Xmas.  Maybe they forget the misery inflicted on HGV drivers last year where they missed out on Xmas by getting stuck in lorry parks.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/12/25/army-sent-in-as-thousands-of-lorry-drivers-stranded-on-christmas-day-13807122/

[TSC]

Opinium poll in today’s observer shows 67% inc 59% of Tory voters think government has responded badly to the current crisis.  68% said Brexit was partly to blame inc 88% of remain voters and 52% of leave voters.

[mobydick]

So I‘m off to cast my vote in the German election. Due to Brexit I was more or less forced to take (dual) German citizenship and be able to move freely through Europe. I quite like the idea now and a few of my other European friends have done the same. Thanks Boris you c*nt.

[rob1966]

So reportedly c100k HGV drivers short and in the midst of shortages across various sectors inc obviously fuel, government’s ‘solution’ is to allow up to 10k in by relaxing visa restrictions.  Beyond the inadequacy of the numbers further devil is  in the detail as ever of course.  Only applies to the haulier and poultry industries.  All part of this years version of ‘Boris saves (destroys) Xmas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58694004

This government may think there are hordes of workers desperate to escape the EU and work here up to Xmas.  Maybe they forget the misery inflicted on HGV drivers last year where they missed out on Xmas by getting stuck in lorry parks.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/12/25/army-sent-in-as-thousands-of-lorry-drivers-stranded-on-christmas-day-13807122/

Its OK the fat prick saying they'll be bring 10k drivers in, but what if they aren't up to scratch? The agencies will put any dickhead in anywhere as all they give a fuck about is the money, but hauliers cannot accept late deliveries, damaged units, twatted bridges as they follow Google maps etc etc

[CraigDS]

Come on Rob, that's bullshit. My dad was a lorry driver and I spent many a school holiday in his cab listening to him rant about hgv's doing the wrong thing, including running in the outside lane.
I did a short stint as a lorry driver when I finished my apprenticeship  and I saw plenty of hgv's in the outside lane, remember this was back when foreign drivers were very unusual.
It's the equivalent of saying all Liverpool supporters are angels...

I’ll echo Andy, been driving near 20yrs and never seen a HGV in the outside lane ever, and done plenty of motorway miles in that time.

[redbyrdz]

So reportedly c100k HGV drivers short and in the midst of shortages across various sectors inc obviously fuel, government’s ‘solution’ is to allow up to 10k in by relaxing visa restrictions.  Beyond the inadequacy of the numbers further devil is  in the detail as ever of course.  Only applies to the haulier and poultry industries.  All part of this years version of ‘Boris saves (destroys) Xmas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58694004

This government may think there are hordes of workers desperate to escape the EU and work here up to Xmas.  Maybe they forget the misery inflicted on HGV drivers last year where they missed out on Xmas by getting stuck in lorry parks.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/12/25/army-sent-in-as-thousands-of-lorry-drivers-stranded-on-christmas-day-13807122/

Very inviting too, temporary visa, you're welcome for a couple of months to do a shit job, but then you have to fuck off again because we hate the Europeans and you won't be useful to us anymore.

It also doesn't solve the tax issues, so the companies will have to offer big wages to make it worthwhile for anyone to come.

[rob1966]

Very inviting too, temporary visa, you're welcome for a couple of months to do a shit job, but then you have to fuck off again because we hate the Europeans and you won't be useful to us anymore.

It also doesn't solve the tax issues, so the companies will have to offer big wages to make it worthwhile for anyone to come.

I also would like to know where the Tories expect these drivers to live? Yes you can tramp and live in the cab for 5 days, but then that vehicle is needed for the other 2 days, so they need to find a rental place.

[Jiminy Cricket]

I think Starmer probably did make a mistake as his reasons for whipping to support the deal are complicated, we had left the EU so the situation had changed from previous votes, it was Johnsons deal or a no deal choice,  I don't think the vote passing was a foregone conclusion at the time as people did doubt the ERG etc support, Starmer basically put country before party. having said that wasn't this Johnsons plan all along, leave things to the last possible second to leave us no options, his deal or a no deal. I would have gone abstain or free vote but at the end of the day the damage had already been done.

Unless my memory is playing tricks, passage of the bill was in jeopardy only if Labour actually voted against it. It was perfectly safe to abstain.

[Libertine]

Very inviting too, temporary visa, you're welcome for a couple of months to do a shit job, but then you have to fuck off again because we hate the Europeans and you won't be useful to us anymore.

And the visa runs out on Christmas Eve. Pure Dickensian.

[oldfordie]

Unless my memory is playing tricks, passage of the bill was in jeopardy only if Labour actually voted against it. It was perfectly safe to abstain.

I think your right Jiminy, just remember people being a bit suspicious of the ERG plotting to take us out with a no deal. lulling Labour into believing Johnsons deal would pass with or without Labours support so Labour would abstain then voting against it at the last second, nothing would have stopped a no deal if that would have happened.

[The North Bank]

Went to 13 Petrol stations in west London, all closed or empty. Good thing I had a can of petrol in the shed for the grass trimmer or I would not have made it to work tomorrow. Then ill need to find some to get back home. Its like living in a 3rd world country, Brexit has been brilliant.

[rob1966]

They won't come anyway, as the tax loophole was closed when IR35 came in, tens of thousands left solely because of that, so they will not be returning. Does the clueless bastard not know there is also shit loads of work within the EU for them to take?

[Riquende]

I think your right Jiminy, just remember people being a bit suspicious of the ERG plotting to take us out with a no deal. lulling Labour into believing Johnsons deal would pass with or without Labours support so Labour would abstain then voting against it at the last second, nothing would have stopped a no deal if that would have happened.

Whilst it's true that Labour were absolutely outmaneouvred and bamboozled by the Tory pincer, the trouble they have now is that people won't remember the details, and they've ended up being unable to effectively criticise a scenario that they voted for.

The early unwillingness to adopt a position on Brexit led to them being outflanked on all sides and placed neatly into a box that the government could direct however it needed.

[Riquende]

Went to 13 Petrol stations in west London, all closed or empty. Good thing I had a can of petrol in the shed for the grass trimmer or I would not have made it to work tomorrow. Then ill need to find some to get back home. Its like living in a 3rd world country, Brexit has been brilliant.

Took a walk to the BP 5 mins away here in Luton and they're all out, staff couldn't answer any questions about replenishment. They think they'll have some 'this week'.

I'm on hols now so don't need to drive for 2 weeks anyway, I've got fingers crossed the hordes of forrin' HGV drivers have flooded back into the country to slosh petrol around before I get back.

[TepidT2O]

So there’s a queue outside my house.

I’m half a mile from a petrol station.

Guess what the queue is for.

[Riquende]

They won't come anyway, as the tax loophole was closed when IR35 came in, tens of thousands left solely because of that, so they will not be returning. Does the clueless bastard not know there is also shit loads of work within the EU for them to take?

But why would they not want the honour of making sure turkeys make it to Great British Christmas tables? What could be more important than that? Don't they know who we are?

[oldfordie]

Whilst it's true that Labour were absolutely outmaneouvred and bamboozled by the Tory pincer, the trouble they have now is that people won't remember the details, and they've ended up being unable to effectively criticise a scenario that they voted for.

The early unwillingness to adopt a position on Brexit led to them being outflanked on all sides and placed neatly into a box that the government could direct however it needed.

Yeah, think I made the same point at the time, it was complicated and Starmers reasoning of putting the countries future ahead of the party is not even mentioned now.
I wouldn't put it all down to the Torys master plan to outmanoeuvre Labour, Labour knew the plan, leave any deal till the last possible second to give Labour no options, it was either Johnson deal or a no deal, there was nothing they could do to stop it, the damage was done when Labour gifted the Torys the election they needed so they could do as they please with a majority. the Torys were knackered up to that point.

[Dr. Beaker]

Yeah, think I made the same point at the time, it was complicated and Starmers reasoning of putting the countries future ahead of the party is not even mentioned now.
I wouldn't put it all down to the Torys master plan to outmanoeuvre Labour, Labour knew the plan, leave any deal till the last possible second to give Labour no options, it was either Johnson deal or a no deal, there was nothing they could do to stop it, the damage was done when Labour gifted the Torys the election they needed so they could do as they please with a majority. the Torys were knackered up to that point.

I thought the LibDems made the election unavoidable, mind you my memory is awful.

[oldfordie]

I thought the LibDems made the election unavoidable, mind you my memory is awful.

Yeah that eventually happened but not at first, there was talk of a national government at first, it lasted a few weeks, bookies were taking odds, I think Beckett was the favourite. who would lead the Nat Government became the stumbling block, MPs from other partys refused to support Corbyn, I understood where they were coming from and it was infuriating to see McDonnell etc dismiss their points, would a left wing MP like to have the smear of supporting Cameron or Thatcher on their record when other options were available. Labour refused to back down, it had to be Corbyn who led the national government, end of Nat Government hopes, the Lib Dems then committed Hari Kari and called for a election, think they argued they would overturn the referendum result without having another referendum.

[12C]

So there’s a queue outside my house.

I’m half a mile from a petrol station.

Guess what the queue is for.

Your autograph?

[Dr. Beaker]

Yeah that eventually happened but not at first, there was talk of a national government at first, it lasted a few weeks, bookies were taking odds, I think Beckett was the favourite. who would lead the Nat Government became the stumbling block, MPs from other partys refused to support Corbyn, I understood where they were coming from and it was infuriating to see McDonnell etc dismiss their points, would a left wing MP like to have the smear of supporting Cameron or Thatcher on their record when other options were available. Labour refused to back down, it had to be Corbyn who led the national government, end of Nat Government hopes, the Lib Dems then committed Hari Kari and called for a election, think they argued they would overturn the referendum result without having another referendum.

Yeah that sounds about right.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Whilst it's true that Labour were absolutely outmaneouvred and bamboozled by the Tory pincer, the trouble they have now is that people won't remember the details, and they've ended up being unable to effectively criticise a scenario that they voted for.

It was entirely predictable, and was predicted here and elsewhere. Hoe embarrassing; how shameful - being outwitted by Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson at the shower of imbeciles that is the Tory Party.

The early unwillingness to adopt a position on Brexit led to them being outflanked on all sides and placed neatly into a box that the government could direct however it needed.

Well. That was the other idiotic position taken by Labour over Brexit. Again, entirely predictable that it would come to bite them on the arse.

[So… Howard Philips]

But why would they not want the honour of making sure turkeys make it to Great British Christmas tables? What could be more important than that? Don't they know who we are?

Never mind the turkeys. Who's gonna wrap the pigs in blankets?

[TepidT2O]

Your autograph?

I hadn’t considered this.  On reflection, it is of course highly likely

[Andy @ Allerton!]

So there’s a queue outside my house.

I’m half a mile from a petrol station.

Guess what the queue is for.

Photo with your cat?

[oldfordie]

So there’s a queue outside my house.

I’m half a mile from a petrol station.

Guess what the queue is for.

Asking for trouble putting a big Q sign outside your house.
Am guessing they were all nutty Donald Trump supporters.

[rob1966]

Gonna be a couple of weeks I'd reckon to get the petrol stations restocked. Well done you


So, come on the Schapps, is it 100, 200 or 300? Are you just fucking guessing you c*nt?

The transport secretary said there was not a "dramatic shortage in drivers" for the fuel industry, with only "one, two, three hundred drivers" needed for distribution to petrol stations.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58698998

[TSC]

Sky news just reporting on numbers of fuel filling stations closed and awaiting further deliveries.  Also reporting no problem in NI due to the Brexit protocol.  Not sure if same problems are present in Wales or Scotland or confined to England?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/pv7g1j/fuel_shortages_northern_ireland_haulage_company/

[Crosby Nick]

What a shitshow and what a nation of morons we are.

Yours sincerely
Smug Pedestrian