Author Topic: Shanklyboy's and Fat Scousers ( Leo who's still alive ) auld arse thread  (Read 4015031 times)

Offline Kwaideng

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1160 on: January 10, 2009, 12:06:51 am »
we should be thankfull to the irish for our accents.
before the spud famine we spoke like mancs and other people from lancashire.
just shows you how many irish people actually settled here, enough to change the local dialect.
the population of liverpool doubled from about 200,000 to 400,000 during the potato famine, 99.9% of the new arrivals were irish.
I can remember my auld feller calling someone a 'pilgarlic'  and saying something was  fuckin' 'thripe' when it was no good and he was born off Scottie although his Ma and  Da were Irish. I had to eradicate that sort of thing when I was growing up of course...John Lennon didn't talk like that like did he, and I was getting me 'ole off loads of  wool birds on the strength..
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1161 on: January 10, 2009, 12:19:37 am »
we should be thankfull to the irish for our accents.
before the spud famine we spoke like mancs and other people from lancashire.
just shows you how many irish people actually settled here, enough to change the local dialect.
the population of liverpool doubled from about 200,000 to 400,000 during the potato famine, 99.9% of the new arrivals were irish.
Most Scousers hate this, but it's truth.... Scouse is most influenced by North Welsh. Of course it's a cock up of Irish, Lancashire and Welsh, but it's mostly influenced by Welsh. And it was also affected by all the immigrants that landed but they mainly influenced the words we used not really the accent.
Not me speaking lads. I'm not that smart. I've seen, heard and read that in loads of places by professors of language and that.

And you only have to go into North Wales to know it's true. I've been talking away to Welsh fellas in alehouses over there, thinking I was talking to other Scousers and they was Welsh.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 12:21:23 am by FAT SCOUSER »
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Offline Kwaideng

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1162 on: January 10, 2009, 12:25:19 am »
Most Scousers hate this, but it's truth.... Scouse is most influenced by North Welsh. Of course it's a cock up of Irish, Lancashire and Welsh, but it's mostly influenced by Welsh. And it was also affected by all the immigrants that landed but they mainly influenced the words we used not really the accent.
Not me speaking lads. I'm not that smart. I've seen, heard and read that in loads of places by professors of language and that.

And you only have to go into North Wales to know it's true. I've been talking away to Welsh fellas in alehouses over there, thinking I was talking to other Scousers and they was Welsh.
Well the closest accent I have ever heard to scouse is on the Isle of Man. And no it wasn't a load of scallies working the season!
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1163 on: January 10, 2009, 12:25:26 am »
Most Scousers hate this, but it's truth.... Scouse is most influenced by North Welsh. Of course it's a cock up of Irish, Lancashire and Welsh, but it's mostly influenced by Welsh. And it was also affected by all the immigrants that landed but they mainly influenced the words we used not really the accent.
Not me speaking lads. I'm not that smart. I've seen, heard and read that in loads of places by professors of language and that.

i think thats a bit of an urban myth that mate, the welsh did settle in liverpool (especially around walton road way) but they never arrived in such numbers and in such a short space of time to actually change the accent.

Offline shanklyboy

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1164 on: January 10, 2009, 12:27:25 am »
I can remember my auld feller calling someone a 'pilgarlic'  and saying something was  fuckin' 'thripe' when it was no good and he was born off Scottie although his Ma and  Da were Irish. I had to eradicate that sort of thing when I was growing up of course...John Lennon didn't talk like that like did he, and I was getting me 'ole off loads of  wool birds on the strength..

Pilgarlic.........Haven't heard that expression for years.

I think most of us have an Irish family connection somewhere down the lines.
Mine was both Grandmas and a Grandad.
A favourite saying was that something was 'Flockoolick'.
Don't have a clue what it means as it was used about virtually everything.

The Beatles had wierd accents at times.
Only Ringo, a Dingle lad, seemed to speak like everyone else.
Pity he turned into a gobshite......or maybe he always was!

I'm sure he's fucking bothered eh?
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Offline Kwaideng

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1165 on: January 10, 2009, 12:32:02 am »
Pilgarlic.........Haven't heard that expression for years.

I think most of us have an Irish family connection somewhere down the lines.
Mine was both Grandmas and a Grandad.
A favourite saying was that something was 'Flockoolick'.
Don't have a clue what it means as it was used about virtually everything.

The Beatles had wierd accents at times.
Only Ringo, a Dingle lad, seemed to speak like everyone else.
Pity he turned into a gobshite......or maybe he always was!

I'm sure he's fucking bothered eh?
Yes, I must admit the Beatles did sound a bit odd but eh  you had to do what you had to do to get with it. I always remember me mate Terry Dicko from Huyton growing a barnet and  tash like jason king after he had been a skinhead/townie (comos..short perry) and I asked him what the fuck he was  now ...his reply.."I'm whatever the fuckin birds want me to be".
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 12:35:46 am by OLDSCROTE »
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1166 on: January 10, 2009, 12:43:29 am »
And you only have to go into North Wales to know it's true. I've been talking away to Welsh fellas in alehouses over there, thinking I was talking to other Scousers and they was Welsh.

not having that mate!
if that was true how come people from the likes of chester and queensferry dont talk like us?
it`s too coincidental that the place 200,000 irish people settled within a matter of a few years ends up having a distinct accent found nowhere else in the world.
and i dont know where you`ve been bevvying in north wales but they sound nothing like us!!

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1167 on: January 10, 2009, 12:50:59 am »
not having that mate!
if that was true how come people from the likes of chester and queensferry dont talk like us?
it`s too coincidental that the place 200,000 irish people settled within a matter of a few years ends up having a distinct accent found nowhere else in the world.
and i dont know where you`ve been bevvying in north wales but they sound nothing like us!!
Here is a link http://bloodandtreasure.typepad.com/blood_treasure/2008/03/of-scouse-and-s.html   
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And they are being watched too, but don't know it.

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1168 on: January 10, 2009, 12:57:50 am »
Here is a link http://bloodandtreasure.typepad.com/blood_treasure/2008/03/of-scouse-and-s.html   

well yeah, that says it`s mostly irish.
there`s loads of cod scouse accents all around liverpool, for instance the wirral accent to me doesnt sound scouse but to someone from london they`d probably hear it and think `scouser`.

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1169 on: January 10, 2009, 01:05:14 am »
not having that mate!
if that was true how come people from the likes of chester and queensferry dont talk like us?
it`s too coincidental that the place 200,000 irish people settled within a matter of a few years ends up having a distinct accent found nowhere else in the world.
and i dont know where you`ve been bevvying in north wales but they sound nothing like us!!
Sorry mate, but it's true. If it wasn't for the Irish, Welsh mixed with a Lancastrian accents, we'd all be talking like the c*nts off Corrie.

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1170 on: January 10, 2009, 01:09:22 am »
well yeah, that says it`s mostly irish.
there`s loads of cod scouse accents all around liverpool, for instance the wirral accent to me doesnt sound scouse but to someone from london they`d probably hear it and think `scouser`.
Depends where you are on the Wirral. I'm originally from Rock Ferry, as nipper moved up to the Ford Estate which was full of North End Birkenhead. Both accents are quite scouse. If you go to places like Heswall or Greasby etc, then their accents are nothing like ours.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 01:10:54 am by Terry De Niro »

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1171 on: January 10, 2009, 01:09:52 am »
Sorry mate, but it's true. If it wasn't for the Irish, Welsh mixed with a Lancastrian accents, we'd all be talking like the c*nts off Corrie.

i`m not disputing that mate, i`m not having that the welsh language is apparently the MAIN one in scouse.
i reckon the two main languages that make up scouse are english (lancastrian) and irish, with welsh and scottish and even the odd norweigan word(loads of scandanavians lived in liverpool in the mid 1800`s, infact it was them who named us scousers) thrown in.

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1172 on: January 10, 2009, 01:12:09 am »
As a toal outsider, i gotta say if Scouse sounded like another accent, its gotta be Irish over anything else.
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1173 on: January 10, 2009, 01:13:08 am »
Depends where you are on the Wirral. I'm originally from Rock Ferry, moved up to the Ford Estate which was full of North End Birkenhead. Both accents are quite scouse. If you go to places like Heswall or Greasby etc, then their accents are nothing like ours.

you can still tell the difference, i reckon i can tell if someone is from `over the water` by listening to their accent.
but your right, the birkenhead accent is closer to the accent here in liverpool than everywhere else on the wirral.

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1174 on: January 10, 2009, 01:13:55 am »
the true test is when you are abroad.when i was in australia (1995,1999) they thought my accent was either irish or scottish.says it all really.
its the day to day mentality too.the freindliness,the always looking for a laugh stuff.can really relate to the irish and scots.the loyalty factor is there as well
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 01:15:29 am by horne »
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1175 on: January 10, 2009, 01:14:50 am »
you can still tell the difference, i reckon i can tell if someone is from `over the water` by listening to their accent.
but your right, the birkenhead accent is closer to the accent here in liverpool than everywhere else on the wirral.
Only because we don't pronounce our k like kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk  ;)

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1176 on: January 10, 2009, 01:20:53 am »
Only because we don't pronounce our k like kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk  ;)

ha ha!
nah mate thats a professional scouser trait, you find that in places like kirkby and bootle where they do stuff like that and worry about what trainies they`ve got on to make up for the fact that they just missed out on being born in the greatest city on earth. (wink)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 01:36:19 am by its cold in the stands »

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1177 on: January 10, 2009, 01:51:15 am »
ha ha!
nah mate thats a professional scouser trait, you find that in places like kirkby and bootle where they do stuff like that and worry about what trainies they`ve got on to make up for the fact that they just missed out on being born in the greatest city on earth. (wink)
I'm glad I've had better things to worry about in my life.  ;)

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1178 on: January 10, 2009, 01:53:36 am »
the true test is when you are abroad.when i was in australia (1995,1999) they thought my accent was either irish or scottish.says it all really.
its the day to day mentality too.the freindliness,the always looking for a laugh stuff.can really relate to the irish and scots.the loyalty factor is there as well

You dont have to be from Austraila to confuse Scouse with Irish or Scots.....
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1179 on: January 10, 2009, 03:47:30 am »
missed the point...row z
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1180 on: January 10, 2009, 09:37:05 am »
Fuckinell cat amongst the pigeons or what. From the amount of comments, you'd think I'd called Mr Ferguson a c*nt.
And I told you, you'd hate it. And I  know you still won't have it. But it's true. I've read books about it. Scouse is a fucked up mixture of many things cos they all collided in Liverpool. Of course Jock and Paddy are huge parts of it, especially Irish from the amount who settled the city. But the main influence on it came from North Wales.
I'm not talking about nowadays. I'm talking about it's origins. And obviously it's changed over the years. In fact, nowadays Scouse kids don't sound right to me. Don't know what the fuck is happening, but they don't talk Scouse like we did. And I'd expect to get leathered for that cos I don't live there anymore. But.
And as for Australians thinking we are Paddies or Jocks... When I was a young fella, I went to both Australia and America. Soon as I opened me grid, people asked where I was from. If it was a good looking bird, I done and OLDSCROTE'S mate's Jason King trick...
I was from wherever the fuck they wanted me to be from.
Missus Fat Scouse would kill me if she seen this, even though it was long before she was about. In fact, it was that long ago, it was before I was even fat. But hard as it is to believe from the kip of me now, I had me dick worn to a point out there. Straight up, the bird's in both gaffes, but especially the States, loved it. I kopped for some crackers an all. Which was a bit of a shock to me, as I'm an ugly c*nt and whenever I went outside Liverpool before that, I'd only ever been treated like shite and hated for the way I speak.
But honest, it even got me jobs and all sorts of things in Australia but mainly America. Yanks fucking love it. They haven't got a fucking clue. You could be from the moon for all they know. But they love it and it was me best asset out there.
So, god bless the Paddies and the Jocks, but mainly the Taffs. And I know you won't have that. Neither would I until I read a few books about it. I've even seen a documentary about it by some big language proffessor fella. I'll try to dig it up and make you's all sick - you Taffy c*nts!

And here's one for you, it was in that documentary an all... Why do we call people from Lancashire and surrounding towns Woolybacks?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 09:46:49 am by FAT SCOUSER »
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Offline McMahon

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1181 on: January 10, 2009, 09:42:18 am »
Fuckinell cat amongst the pigeons or what. From the amount of comments, you'd think I'd called Mr Ferguson a c*nt.
And I told you, you'd hate it. And I  know you still won't have it. But it's true. I've read books about it. Scouse is a fucked up mixture of many things cos they all collided in Liverpool. Of course Jock and Paddy are huge parts of it, especially Irish from the amount who settled the city. But the main influence on it came from North Wales.
That's probably not true nowadays. I'm talking about it's origins. And to be honest, nowadays Scouse kids don't sound right to me. Don't know what the fuck is happening, but they don't talk Scouse like we did.
And as for Australians thinking we are Paddies or Jocks... When I was a young fella, I went to both Australia and America. Soon as I opened me grid, people asked where I was from. If it was a good looking bird, I done and OLDSCROTE'S mate's Jason King trick...
I was from wherever the fuck they wanted me to be from.
Missus Fat Scouse would kill me if she seen this, even though it was long before she was about. In fact, it was that long ago, it was before I was even fat. But hard as it is to believe from the kip of me now, I had me dick worn to a point. Straight up, the bird's in both gaffes loved it. I kopped for some crackers an all. Which was a bit of a shock to me, as I'm an ugly c*nt and whenever I went outside Liverpool before that, I'd only ever been treated like shite and hated for the way I speak.
But honest, it even got me jobs and all sorts of things in Australia but mainly America. Yanks fucking love it. They haven't got a fucking clue. You could be from the moon for all they know. But they love it and was me best asset out there.
So, god bless the Paddies and the Jocks, but mainly the Taffs. And I know you won't have that. Neither would I until I read a few books about it. I've even seen a documentary about it by some big language proffessor fella. I'll try to dig it up and make you's all sick - you Taffy c*nts!

And here's one for you, it was in that documentary an all... Why do we call people from Lancashire and surrounding towns Woolybacks?
Farmers, sheepshaggers.

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1182 on: January 10, 2009, 09:48:28 am »
Farmers, sheepshaggers.
Nah mate. Nothing to do with it.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1183 on: January 10, 2009, 09:52:09 am »
Nah mate. Nothing to do with it.

Got to have something to do with the cotton  spinning gene ?

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1184 on: January 10, 2009, 09:59:21 am »
I sort of agree with FS about the North Wales side of things.  My family was a mix of Walton/Birkenhead but I moved to Chester when I was small.  I have been into North Wales plenty of times and certain parts of it you hear a "sort" of scouse.  It is scouse with a welsh twang.  My mums side were actually from North Wales orginally but moved into Liverpool eons ago.

And yes I have been called a woolyback plenty of times.

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1185 on: January 10, 2009, 10:00:00 am »
Fuckinell cat amongst the pigeons or what. From the amount of comments, you'd think I'd called Mr Ferguson a c*nt.
And I told you, you'd hate it. And I  know you still won't have it. But it's true. I've read books about it. Scouse is a fucked up mixture of many things cos they all collided in Liverpool. Of course Jock and Paddy are huge parts of it, especially Irish from the amount who settled the city. But the main influence on it came from North Wales.
I'm not talking about nowadays. I'm talking about it's origins. And obviously it's changed over the years. In fact, nowadays Scouse kids don't sound right to me. Don't know what the fuck is happening, but they don't talk Scouse like we did. And I'd expect to get leathered for that cos I don't live there anymore. But.
And as for Australians thinking we are Paddies or Jocks... When I was a young fella, I went to both Australia and America. Soon as I opened me grid, people asked where I was from. If it was a good looking bird, I done and OLDSCROTE'S mate's Jason King trick...
I was from wherever the fuck they wanted me to be from.
Missus Fat Scouse would kill me if she seen this, even though it was long before she was about. In fact, it was that long ago, it was before I was even fat. But hard as it is to believe from the kip of me now, I had me dick worn to a point out there. Straight up, the bird's in both gaffes, but especially the States, loved it. I kopped for some crackers an all. Which was a bit of a shock to me, as I'm an ugly c*nt and whenever I went outside Liverpool before that, I'd only ever been treated like shite and hated for the way I speak.
But honest, it even got me jobs and all sorts of things in Australia but mainly America. Yanks fucking love it. They haven't got a fucking clue. You could be from the moon for all they know. But they love it and it was me best asset out there.
So, god bless the Paddies and the Jocks, but mainly the Taffs. And I know you won't have that. Neither would I until I read a few books about it. I've even seen a documentary about it by some big language proffessor fella. I'll try to dig it up and make you's all sick - you Taffy c*nts!

And here's one for you, it was in that documentary an all... Why do we call people from Lancashire and surrounding towns Woolybacks?

something to do with them working as scab labour and sheepskin.
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1186 on: January 10, 2009, 11:31:35 am »
Got to have something to do with the cotton  spinning gene ?

"Woolyback" was originally a derrogatory term for a wimp used by Liverpool Dockers.
It had nothing to do with where people were from.
A "woolyback" was a dock worker who wore a sheepskin rug over his shoulder and upper back to stop the sacks from chaiffing when handballing loads off ships.
In todays world, It would be appropriate for rugby players to call american footballers "woolybacks" for all the upper body padding they wear to protect themselves.
When Liverpool dockers went to Millwall docks my Grandad said one of the first things he heard while waiting to start work was "Christ look woolybacks everywhere"

On the Scouse accent ;
Of course it's the Irish. Even someone else spotted it when mentioning "Birkenhead" sounding more scouse.
In the 1851 census the population of Birkenhead increased as much percentage-wise as Liverpool. The mass exodus from "The Sod" due to failure of the spud and the English landowners still exporting all the other crops to England meant The Merseyside population grew by near 300,000 and another 300,000 plus were transients on their way to America Canada and OZ.
My lot landed in Birkenhead in 1846.
They were partly responsible for building the railway line from Liverpool - Hull and then settled in Garston (1906)

Interesting point about North Wales having imput to the scouse accent.
But the only people from North Wales who had imput to our lingo were all the people arriving at Hollyhead and guess where they were from ?

One more point on Historical sayings from our beloved neck of the woods.
"Round the bend" meaning off their heads was a term bandied between Garston and Bootle Dockers as they were "Around the bend of the river"

One last point.
"Dicky Sams" the original name for scousers.
Were people born withing the sound of the bells of St Micks.
I can assure all here they can be heared clearly in Birkenhead, but neither Garston or Bootle.
Make of that what you will.

History lesson over today.
For your Homework please study 1841 and 1851 census of Lancashire.
And if your really want top marks read The Great Irish Famine and pay particular attention to section "Arriving at and Leaving from Liverpool"

LEAVING FROM LIVERPOOL
The passage through the Liverpool funnel was also the most common experience of the famine emigrants. One might even say it was their first truly "national" experience. The sight of the exodus was concentrated and magnified in the few square miles of the waterfront where, in a sense, all of Ireland's townlands met for the first time and witnessed the commonality of their fate. Whatever the circumstances of their leaving home or their ultimate destination, the vast majority of emigrants were unmistakably linked by characteristics that identified them as one in the eyes of Liverpool if not yet in their own. Rags, disease, and the ravages of hunger were among the signs attached to them, as we have seen.

For Rushton's police, baggage was the telling sign. The health officers looked for symptoms of "Irish fever." Adult males of the most ordinary appearance in Ballykilcline were the ape-like "Milesian' brutes of Victorian caricature. Above all, the symbols of Irishness in Liverpool were the signs of a poverty so extreme that, when found in the heart of the empire, it was seen as a fall from civilization and likened to savagery.

In Liverpool, the poverty of the emigrants was visible in their bodies, in their rags, and malnutrition. Toothlessness, matted hair, body smells, and other missing vanities also set them apart. But, according to some observers Irish poverty could be distinguished from that of other paupers as something more than just a lack of cash, something as evident in their gait and demeanor as in their obvious need. "Passive," "resigned," "stunned," and "mute" were descriptions most commonly given to distinguish Irish emigrants along the docks. The authorities, especially the unenviable health and parish relieving officers, were repeatedly frustrated by the tendency of sick or starving emigrants to hide themselves from view in the cellars and tenements, as though fearing to approach even those who meant to help them.

There was some reason to remain unseen, since Irish-born paupers could be brought before the magistrates and immediately returned to Ire-land under the Poor Removal Acts. Short of that dreaded prospect, the sick could be removed from the family for quarantine or "treatment" in the fever sheds. Inadvertently, the law also gave the lodging-house keepers and their intermediaries a new means of threatening their guests with exposure and repatriation. The laws and regulations aimed at emigrants, as well as the discretionary powers of health and parish officers, tended to reinforce the ingrained habits of isolation and secrecy with which the emigrants had long used to cloak themselves from scrutiny. In the townland, all deputies of the law or authorities were to be shunned indeed, many succeeded in evading them and some lived entirely out of their sight for years. But anonymity was no longer possible, since in Liverpool the law or the threat of it was everywhere in the person not only of every official but of almost any native citizen.

It is unlikely that most of the newly arriving emigrants understood the variety of proceedings of the law that could derail their hopes and plans: discovery by the relieving officers might be followed in a few hours by a summary hearing before the magistrates and forced removal along the same route they had just survived, as deck passengers back across the Irish Sea. Medical or ship's officers could reject one or all in a family without appeal moments before they boarded. Health officers could order immediate quarantine in the fever sheds or the hulks moored in the river to isolate the infected. Doctors or beadles could remove "lunatics" from the poorhouses to the crowded asylum at Rainhill, where the wards were filled with hundreds who were diagnosed as suffering from "mental paralysis".

A large minority were also handicapped by language or illiteracy. The Irish accents of both native- and Irish-born could be heard throughout the city, distinguishing their bearers' place of origin or even their religious identity to each other. But speaking Irish above a whisper outside the Irish wards instantly marked the emigrant to both the authorities and the swarms of predators. More than half of the native population of the city was also illiterate, but new arrivals from Ireland were at greater risk of exploitation from this cause in the unfamiliar workings of the emigration system, in which reliable information and directions about ship movements, delays, and regulations were essential. At least in these circumstances, the literate children were more likely to be a help than a burden to many emigrant families; indeed, the value and status of the young adults had almost certainly risen as the distance from the townland lengthened and the powers of the elders diminished.

Another large but unknown number arrived in Liverpool with their tickets or their fares only and were completely unprepared for even slight setbacks. The routine delays in sailing dates were especially dangerous for these and accounted for the thousands caught in the gauntlet of official and criminal coercion from which few emerged unscathed and many totally penniless. Many were also vulnerable to the devious practices of the freelance banditti who infested the lower levels of the emigrant trade, being as unused to complicated transactions as they were to schedules or lodging houses. These easily fell afoul of money changers, offering to "dollar" their English coin into American currency of less or no value, or of lodging-house keepers who might keep a family "on the cuff" for food and shelter and strip them bare when payment came due, by force if threats failed.

Many of the petty frauds practiced on them were common bullying: baggage would be stolen by the runners and "commissions" demanded for its return; half-fare childern's tickets were sold to illiterate adults who would then be turned away at the gangplank. Worthless out-of-date tickets were casually altered and bought by the gullible or desperate. Others were refused passage because they lacked the additional one dollar "head money" required at American ports. In their rush to fill the steerages, brokers were known to book emigrants for New York on vessels bound for Baltimore or Boston, or even New Orleans, assuring them that these places were only hours apart.

The fleecing of "greenhorns" was widely practiced in all big cities in Europe and America, often as in Liverpool by those who had survived a similar experience themselves not long before. It soon became a kind of initiation rite for migrant peasants in the new moral niceties of city life. But Liverpool's well-earned fame for this skullduggery could probably not have been achieved but for the overabundance of fresh and easy victims, a role the townland emigrant of 1848 was suited for as if by order.

The exposure of their weakness had begun at the moment they were assembled in the Strokestown square and proceeded daily on the road to Liverpool as they were marched and herded under the eyes of strangers, all now reduced to homeless paupers whatever their former standing had been. Patriarchs and independent widows who had ruled adult families on the land became burdensome dependents when severed from their holdings, and together with infants and children under five suffered the highest rates of attrition en route.

James Connor's father, a patriarch of one of the largest and oldest townland families, was rejected as "too old and debilitated" by a reputable captain who merely wished to reduce the risk of mortality aboard his ship during the crossing. Such descriptions tell us little about the old man's actual condition, since the same description was sometimes used of men or women of less than forty years of age as reason for rejection. Hundreds of similarly described emigrants were "repatriated' weekly from Liverpool alone, some of them no doubt creating bits of the scenes of "want and woe" described by Melville. Of the nearly 300,000 who arrived in 1847, some 15,000 were removed to Ireland under the new Poor Law Removal Act

Scally, Robert James, The End of Hidden Ireland: Rebellion, Famine, and Emigration, Oxford University Press, New York, 1995, pp.212-215

Now you know where we got the name SCALLY from  ;D

QUESTIONS:

How were the Irish waiting to emigrate from Liverpool set apart and isolated?
How were the Irish famine refugees in Liverpool victimized and exploited?

above taken from
http://www.nde.state.ne.us/ss/irish/irish_pf.html

That link is one of the hardest things for any Irishman or Scouse-Irishman to read.
But definately the best thing I've read on the Famine
Here endeth the lessen, amen
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 11:52:40 am by WOOLTONIAN »
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Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1187 on: January 10, 2009, 11:55:31 am »
I'll read all that in a minute. I haven't got time now. But I still and always will stand by the fact that the original Scouse accent came from North Wales. I might not have explained meself properly at first. But me point was the accent was originally closest to the North Wales accent. Of course it changed over the years. It still is. Listen to Scouse kids and listen to their grandparents. It's obvious to a blind man on a fast horse. In fact, if anything it's now most influenced by America, which is a shame in my book.
But the basis of the accent originated in North Wales, and then of course was influenced by all the imigrants coming through Liverpool and the people who came to settle there. And of course the main influx of people was from Ireland, who first came in huge numbers to escape the potato famine. But it wasn't only English landlords exporting the crops. The rich Irish land owners done it themselves. Sorry Wooltonian mate, but, like slavery, there's been a mass rewritting of history done by the politically correct brigade.

Woolyback indeed originated from the unloading of cargo. But when sheep where being brought ashore, the easiest way for dockers to land them was to grab their front legs, sling them over their shoulders and walk them ashore.

So sling your hook!
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1188 on: January 10, 2009, 12:04:06 pm »
But when sheep where being brought ashore, the easiest way for dockers to land them was to grab their front legs, sling them over their shoulders and walk them ashore.

Thats the result of chinese whispers mate.
A warping of the truth down the decades.

When where sheep ever imported Live into Liverpool ?
The wool came in Bundles and the meat came in salt barrells.

I guess I'd just rather be considered more Irish speaking than fuckin TAFF !  ;D
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1189 on: January 10, 2009, 12:16:07 pm »
Thats the result of chinese whispers mate.
A warping of the truth down the decades.

When where sheep ever imported Live into Liverpool ?
The wool came in Bundles and the meat came in salt barrells.

I guess I'd just rather be considered more Irish speaking than fuckin TAFF !  ;D
As for woolyback, I saw that explanation by a professor fella in a documentary. But I must say your explanation makes more sense. But as for the accent, that's the problem... Scousers can't bear to think it came out of Wales. We'd much rather be Paddies and obviously most of us are, me included. But honest mate, the origins of the accent comes from Wales. That was my slip up in the first post. I said it was mainly Welsh, when what I should have said was originated in North Wales.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Offline Kwaideng

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1190 on: January 10, 2009, 12:27:13 pm »
As for woolyback, I saw that explanation by a professor fella in a documentary. But I must say your explanation makes more sense. But as for the accent, that's the problem... Scousers can't bear to think it came out of Wales. We'd much rather be Paddies and obviously most of us are, me included. But honest mate, the origins of the accent comes from Wales. That was my slip up in the first post. I said it was mainly Welsh, when what I should have said was originated in North Wales.
Isn't it interesting that you get debates about scousology  but not about the origin of say the er manchester accent for example. I have always loved the fact that Liverpool was a cosmopolitan city. Language is constantly changing and like FS says the modern American stuff is pervasive.....old New York sayings I like but this modern shite is mostly banal and boring in my view. Whaddever.......
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1191 on: January 10, 2009, 12:33:40 pm »
The Woolyback is due to the shite left at the bottom of the ships when being offloaded, by the time those who had to travel from the outskirts of Liverpool got to the docks the ships were almost offloaded and they were left to offload the remaining. Ther's a thread on it somwhere but your fucked if I can find it.

Regarding the Scouse accent I'm always led to believe it has an Irish influence, there may be confusion due to both the Welsh and Irish having a Celtic connection. As a Scouser and from the various places I've lived throughout Liverpool I must admit Ive not had many mates with a welsh heritage but fuckin thousands with an Irish one. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 12:35:32 pm by BSBW »
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1192 on: January 10, 2009, 12:35:27 pm »
As for woolyback, I saw that explanation by a professor fella in a documentary. But I must say your explanation makes more sense. But as for the accent, that's the problem... Scousers can't bear to think it came out of Wales. We'd much rather be Paddies and obviously most of us are, me included. But honest mate, the origins of the accent comes from Wales. That was my slip up in the first post. I said it was mainly Welsh, when what I should have said was originated in North Wales.
Its not so important how you talk, but more to the way of how you think. ;)

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1193 on: January 10, 2009, 12:58:00 pm »
Its not so important how you talk, but more to the way of how you think. ;)
Me auld fella told me back in his day, you could tell what part of the city people came from by the way they spoke. Said it was dead handy for getting into fights and that
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1194 on: January 10, 2009, 01:04:35 pm »
The Woolyback is due to the shite left at the bottom of the ships when being offloaded, by the time those who had to travel from the outskirts of Liverpool got to the docks the ships were almost offloaded and they were left to offload the remaining. Ther's a thread on it somwhere but your fucked if I can find it.

Thats what I got told.

On the Irish and Welsh origins, wouldnt it depend just how far back you went?

If you go back 50 years it may be influenced more by irish, another 150 years more by welsh, even further back Vikings or whatever and before them dinosaurs.
I reckon  the most influential has got to be irish, most of us have that in our genes, but thats whats good about liverpool, always changing!
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1195 on: January 10, 2009, 01:13:43 pm »
Thats what I got told.

On the Irish and Welsh origins, wouldnt it depend just how far back you went?

If you go back 50 years it may be influenced more by irish, another 150 years more by welsh, even further back Vikings or whatever and before them dinosaurs.
I reckon  the most influential has got to be irish, most of us have that in our genes, but thats whats good about liverpool, always changing!
Dinosaurs talking scouse  laughed me balls off to that one.....good stuff

hey Brontosaurus.......no he fukkkkin ddidnt!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 01:16:05 pm by OLDSCROTE »
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1196 on: January 10, 2009, 01:16:59 pm »
Dinosaurs talking scouse  laughed me balls off to that one.....good stuff

hey Brontosaurus.......no he fukkkkin ddidnt!

Quite a few of them on here.

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1197 on: January 10, 2009, 01:18:01 pm »
Quite a few of them on here.

Certainly is on this thread.
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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1198 on: January 10, 2009, 01:53:42 pm »
 I agree with F.S. about the influence of the Welsh and Irish in our accent but was also told by my Grandad about the influence of african and indian words due to the shipping contingent as the scousers working overseas brought it back. eg put the "doby" ( washing) out- its an old indian word.
By the way what other UK city would eat salt cod ( portuguese and african colonies) and  add curry to anything in the 50's and 60's- before the influx of indian, bangladeshi families in the 60's- apart from Liverpool? We were cosmopolitan before anybody else.

Its true that you could tell the  wherabouts  in the City people came from and even now my Mum says whenever a Liverpudlian is in trouble on the news she says " bet he's from the North End!" she of course is from the South end of the city!

Ive also worked all over the place and can adapt my accent to suit but get utmost pleasure when with a table of Investment Managers watching their faces drop when I tell then I am from Liverpool- Love it!

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Re: For all the auld arses.
« Reply #1199 on: January 10, 2009, 04:10:52 pm »
Crossroads of the world lads. So, no wonder we is all a fucked up mongrel mixture. I'm part mophead, part moped meself. 
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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