Author Topic: Learning a new language.  (Read 26148 times)

Offline Ken-Obi

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #160 on: June 23, 2015, 01:33:07 pm »
こんばんは民はさん。
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Offline Kuytinho

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #161 on: June 23, 2015, 01:34:01 pm »
I moved to Berlin from Liverpool six months ago and enrolled on an intensive language course. Conversing with other learners is fine (particularly after a few beers) but I still struggle massively once the native speakers get going at 100mph. I can understand a lot of what is said and written - it's speaking that is the biggest hurdle for me. It's definitely a long journey for those who don't have a knack for it (like myself), despite immersion in the country.

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #162 on: June 23, 2015, 01:43:45 pm »
I moved to Berlin from Liverpool six months ago and enrolled on an intensive language course. Conversing with other learners is fine (particularly after a few beers) but I still struggle massively once the native speakers get going at 100mph. I can understand a lot of what is said and written - it's speaking that is the biggest hurdle for me. It's definitely a long journey for those who don't have a knack for it (like myself), despite immersion in the country.

Try to watch TV and films in German. It might not be super fun but you pick up a lot from there without being stressed to respond.
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Offline Manila Vanilla

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #163 on: June 23, 2015, 02:18:30 pm »
I can get by in six, including English.

French (my kids have French nationality) and Spanish to degree level.
German to A Level. My Portuguese used to be better than my Spanish when I lived in Portugal. With a few Latin-based languages you can easily tag on Italian.
I used to be able to use rudimentary Russian in the market too.

Immersing yourself in a different country is the best bet. Alcohol helps too.
I’m not sure that some people necessarily have a better aptitude for languages than others. We all learn at least one language without problem.
I’ve always thought the skill is to be open-minded and non-judgemental – and that’s where alcohol helps! You can easily defeat yourself by deciding it’s stupid for inanimate objects to have gender, by wondering why German declensions have to be so complex, etc. You just have to accept the way things are and get on with it.

Offline Lady_brandybuck

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #164 on: June 23, 2015, 03:12:34 pm »
I speak 3, two of them to native level and 1 intermediate.

I also speak 2 more good enough not to die of starvation in countries where those are spoken
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Offline La Vecchia Magpie

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #165 on: June 23, 2015, 07:12:02 pm »
I echo the Michael Thomas suggestion. Guy is amazing.
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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #166 on: June 23, 2015, 07:19:08 pm »
I moved to Berlin from Liverpool six months ago and enrolled on an intensive language course. Conversing with other learners is fine (particularly after a few beers) but I still struggle massively once the native speakers get going at 100mph. I can understand a lot of what is said and written - it's speaking that is the biggest hurdle for me. It's definitely a long journey for those who don't have a knack for it (like myself), despite immersion in the country.

What you doing in Berlin?

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #167 on: June 23, 2015, 11:25:26 pm »
Iam off to France again tomorrow for six weeks. I speak a little. What Ive noticed though is Iam just confusing my brain. Meaning t that when I come back my brain reads vegetables as vegetale.  Dont get me going on the plurals.
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Offline Manila Vanilla

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #168 on: June 24, 2015, 03:20:55 am »
Dont get me going on the plurals.
Aha... this is the dreaded judgement setting in! Our irregular plurals are fine:

http://grammarist.com/grammar/irregular-plural-nouns/

...but other peoples' are stupid.... The trick is to just accept that this is how things are and we have our fair share of difficulties too.

As regards switching between languages, it's normally easier between different family groups, iike English (predominantly Germanic) and French (predominantly Latin). Switching between Latin languages (like Spanish, Portuguese and Italian) is tricky as the structures are so similar. Even natives can find it hard. I would see Portuguese people spend an hour talking Spanish on the phone, then making mistakes in their own language.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 03:23:29 am by Manila Vanilla »

Offline Lady_brandybuck

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #169 on: June 24, 2015, 03:41:21 am »
I just saw this for Chinese, Looks like a very good approach to language learning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBbzjDjlfSw
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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #170 on: June 24, 2015, 04:42:10 am »

Best advice I could give.

1. Go and live in a foreign country.
2. Don't have any people you know there, or flatmates from your country.
3. Start to live.

You'll be fluent in 4-5 months time if you give it enough effort. That works on paper, I'm a lazy bastard whose Spanish should be much better. Another trick, since go and live somewhere is not so easy, is to watch a lot of TV or films from the foreign country. Throw a lot of shit on a wall and some of it will stick eventually.
This in a nutshell, completely agree.

I speak Spanish (mother-tongue), English (learnt like you say from tv and films) and German (learnt by living there).

I have absolute massive respect for people that can handle themselves profficiently in languages they've only learned through classes and stuff (without having the immersion of living in that country), I find that tremendously difficult; easiest way is indeed, to live for a while in another country avoiding contact with your mother-language or even other languages you know. At first my exchange agency even sent me to a relatively small german town in order to also not have someone to speak english with.

Offline idontknow

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #171 on: June 24, 2015, 05:21:15 am »
At school I was in the 'top band' for every subject, apart from French and I was in the 'remedial' class....I would love to speak French or Italian..but my brain doesn't do languages..having a Dutch Mrs who speaks excellent English and smattering of other European sort of exposes my linguistic limitations...and she never fails to pull up my mispronunciation of foreign words...Whilst English people Anglicise words the Dutch tend to incorporate the pronunciation of origin....hence my pronunciation of 'Paella' is a constant battle in our house.

My 9 year old lad can understand Dutch but not speak it , though out of the blue he's expressed an interest in speaking Dutch, which as he grows older will have no fucking benefit whatsoever unless he goes and lives in the Netherlands....or he and his mum talk about me in front of me....without the decency to do it behind my back in English!!!
Yes, and at least that would give you the chance to hide in the laundry basket and listen  :o

As far as learning foreign languages goes, there's too many of them, and they are all fascinating, so how anybody can focus on just one goes way behind my concentration capacities. I like changing channels from time to time.
There's an old book, about the 1940s, called The Loom of Language, by Frederick Noades, and he explores / explains the roots of the Romance languages (Latin, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, French), and the Germanic languages (German, Dutch, Swedish, Norwegian) all with regard to English. His view is that knowing the 'rules' of how each branch developed, and their relationship to English, you may as well learn a whole branch at a time rather than just one.
I've bolded the title to force you to remember it  :) but it should be available online second hand for under a tenner.
Get hold of some Spanish nursery rhymes too, and counting games, probably off Youtube. And just listen, listen, listen.
(Shouldn't mention this, but - lot of language courses, audio, torrentable.)
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Offline kkhaku

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #172 on: June 24, 2015, 06:16:15 am »
I'm in Argentina at the moment, been here about 5 months. Took a few Spanish lessons beforehand, but nothing could've prepared me for this. They use a different style of speaking, incorporate italian slang into their words, talk at rapid fire pace, and never correct your mistakes.

Its taken me most of the time I've been here to get to a basic level of communication. I can now understand about 80% of what people are saying, and get my own point across, although quite poorly.

I work as a trainer here, and all my clients are expats so speaking English daily is definitely hindering me, so is the lack of time to actually take Spanish lessons here.

I speak two other languages, but learned them all natively as a child, which is a totally different thing.

All the suggestions of going to live in a foreign country, immersing yourself etc etc are all true. However don't underestimate the commitment it takes to become fluent. Whether you're fully immersed or not, it takes time and constant effort, as well as getting over the discomfort of making constant mistakes in public.
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Offline Manila Vanilla

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #173 on: June 24, 2015, 10:28:14 am »
His view is that knowing the 'rules' of how each branch developed, and their relationship to English, you may as well learn a whole branch at a time rather than just one.
There’s a lot of truth in that.

Philology, the study of language development (including things like phonetics and semantics), is a fascinating subject. You start to understand traits that exist in certain language groups, but not others, and it all seems more “normal”. You learn that all languages evolve in much the same way.

If you know that “sung” in Italian is “cantato”, that it becomes “cantado” (Spanish/Portuguese) and “chanté” (French) then you can understand the evolution of “water” -> “waDer” (American) -> “wa’er” (Cockney!). If you know that “ant” is “hormiga” in Spanish and “fourmi” in French then you can deduce it must be “formica” in Italian.

Knowing the “rules” of language groups does make it easier to learn others.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 10:30:28 am by Manila Vanilla »

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #174 on: June 24, 2015, 02:42:16 pm »
Started learning spanish at christmas in prep for backpacking around south america in a months time. Used Fluencia which is a brilliant website, have to pay like a fiver a month but deffo worth it.

I can say pretty much anything i want but them fuckers speak so fast its hard to understand. Despacio por favor!
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Offline the 92A

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #175 on: June 24, 2015, 03:01:25 pm »
Just started learning Spanish. Don't speak any languages apart from English. I've started on listening to Michael Thomas to begin to learn some structure and a podcast called coffeebreak Spanish to pick up some vocabulary and keep clicking on youtube to understand bits of grammar that come up. I'm trying to listen to Spanish, even though I only understand 'flavours' from  context and the odd word, rather than what is being said. Listened to Rafa being introduced at Real Madrid and need to pick up some football words and terms. Really enjoying it but any advice welcome because at the moment my understanding is very limited but I really want to stick at it.
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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #176 on: June 24, 2015, 03:51:02 pm »
These threads pop up from time to time, after a while nearly everything on RAWK is just cyclical

It sure helps with career advancement. The tech's incredible these days as well, anyone remember the old language casettes ? ;D

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #177 on: June 24, 2015, 04:06:19 pm »
Just started learning Spanish. Don't speak any languages apart from English. I've started on listening to Michael Thomas to begin to learn some structure and a podcast called coffeebreak Spanish to pick up some vocabulary and keep clicking on youtube to understand bits of grammar that come up. I'm trying to listen to Spanish, even though I only understand 'flavours' from  context and the odd word, rather than what is being said. Listened to Rafa being introduced at Real Madrid and need to pick up some football words and terms. Really enjoying it but any advice welcome because at the moment my understanding is very limited but I really want to stick at it.
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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #178 on: June 24, 2015, 04:06:37 pm »
These threads pop up from time to time, after a while nearly everything on RAWK is just cyclical

Didn't you post the same thing in the last thread like this? ;)

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #179 on: June 24, 2015, 05:09:40 pm »
Download DuoLingo it is brilliant. Really easy to use and you don't feel like you're actually learning if you know what I mean!

Brilliant Claire. This is great, thanks.

Was passing through Venice years ago on my way to a Europa league game in Slovenia and was struggling communicating, listening to the flowing Italian language of the locals really made me want to learn their language. This is probably the only time I felt a massive desire to learn a new language.  I put it on the back burner and there is stayed until now.

I am now a couple of days into the basic Italian on Duolingo and am repeating the basic lessons over and over and adding a new lesson everyday.  I know its going to get tougher but really enjoying this so far.

Offline Narwin Dunez

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #180 on: June 24, 2015, 05:52:04 pm »
These threads pop up from time to time, after a while nearly everything on RAWK is just cyclical

Deja Vu?

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #181 on: June 24, 2015, 08:36:51 pm »
Yabla!
Cheers Doc just had a look at it and can see the attraction, in terms of helping understand people speaking if you're not immersed in another country, probably could do with complementing some more basic stuff before I would get the most out of that but hopefully that isn't too far away, at the moment Ive just been looking for stuff on you tube. love the way you get audio, written and translation with ability to slow down, can see that being very useful. Are the videos interesting generally and worth $100 for a years subscription?
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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #182 on: June 24, 2015, 08:51:02 pm »
Yes there are a lot of interesting videos. I would say most of them are excellent. They are often full of information on historical and cultural issues on various locations in the country concerned (I'm doing French meself).

I pay monthly, and can terminate it at any point. But I would say yes in answer to your question.

Try Michel Thomas too.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 08:52:37 pm by Dr. Beaker »
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Offline Ken-Obi

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #183 on: June 25, 2015, 02:49:39 am »
I just saw this for Chinese, Looks like a very good approach to language learning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBbzjDjlfSw
(Unrelated to the video)

A bit of a pity for modern learners of the language - the current Simplified script takes away a lot of meaning to the characters compared to the Traditional ones. The pictographs helps a lot to remember how and why the characters are the way they are. Two great examples:

馬 vs 马 for horse. The original script shows a horse running with a long hooked tail as well as the mane flowing.
車 vs 车 for car(t). The original script shows a top down view of cart.

Then combine both for

馬車 vs 马车 for horse driven cart.

Interestingly enough I learn to see the distinction more clearly via a Japanese learning book that shows the origin of Kanji where the characters are depicted in the Traditional script (the Japanese uses the older writing) and how the meaning are derived. The Japanese also use a very archaic list of characters for some of their current writings, including 竜. This is an old, old way of writing 'dragon', even older than the traditional script of 龍. The present script in Simplified is 龙. A friend from Japan visiting Taiwan would be able to navigate him or herself around Taipei quite fine, but may get confused in Beijing.

The cons of the traditional script are also apparent - the complexity of the writing can make it harder to remember how to write; the reading part is easy, making your own words are not.
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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #184 on: June 25, 2015, 02:58:29 am »
So how come no one's made the we have some cunninglinguists on RAWK gag yet....

Offline idontknow

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #185 on: June 25, 2015, 03:43:49 am »
So how come no one's made the we have some cunninglinguists on RAWK gag yet....
Cos we're all too busy trying to say LLLalllana
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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #186 on: June 25, 2015, 02:52:46 pm »
Duolingo's been the best one I've found recently, but I use a couple of podcasts on iTunes as well, the Coffee Break series for French, Spanish and German (of which I probably know the most).
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Offline Narwin Dunez

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #187 on: June 25, 2015, 05:50:03 pm »
Duolingo's been the best one I've found recently,

Shame the sentences to far are so nonsensical!

The elephant drinks the milk

When the flip am I gonna say that?

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #188 on: June 25, 2015, 05:57:30 pm »
I moved to Berlin from Liverpool six months ago and enrolled on an intensive language course. Conversing with other learners is fine (particularly after a few beers) but I still struggle massively once the native speakers get going at 100mph. I can understand a lot of what is said and written - it's speaking that is the biggest hurdle for me. It's definitely a long journey for those who don't have a knack for it (like myself), despite immersion in the country.

I think most people have this problem with speaking, but I was just the opposite. I lived in Sweden for three years and I had no problems speaking. I don't have much in the way of ego, so I don't care if I sound stupid - I would just end up trying and talking my way around problem points in conversations by using the words I did know, and taking chances sometimes with words that I wasn't sure of (and occasionally made up). To this day, some 12 years later, I can still speak it to the (shit) level I could when I left. My problem was listening - I just have very little listening comprehension. Reading is fine (up to the point my vocabulary gives out), but I can't hear for shit. It doesn't hurt that the girls in said foreign country think it is cute as fuck when you stumble through their words   ;)
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Offline idontknow

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #189 on: June 25, 2015, 06:27:24 pm »
Another thing would be open up a browser window and read foreign newspapers, but say particularly the football pages because they more than likely use the same stock phrases and clichés British journals do, so a fair bit is probably  guessable.
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Offline Claire.

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #190 on: June 25, 2015, 07:12:12 pm »
Shame the sentences to far are so nonsensical!

The elephant drinks the milk

When the flip am I gonna say that?



Offline Ken-Obi

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #191 on: June 26, 2015, 02:33:16 am »
Shame the sentences to far are so nonsensical!

The elephant drinks the milk

When the flip am I gonna say that?

When baby elephants are with their mums?
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Offline Manila Vanilla

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #192 on: June 26, 2015, 06:06:46 am »
This translation exercise was in one of the books I used to learn Spanish, many years ago.
I'm still looking for the perfect moment to drop it into a conversation.....

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #193 on: June 26, 2015, 08:41:20 am »
This translation exercise was in one of the books I used to learn Spanish, many years ago.
I'm still looking for the perfect moment to drop it into a conversation.....
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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #194 on: June 27, 2015, 08:53:16 pm »
;D Love the last few posts.

I've run through the beginning of Coffee Break Spanish a few times over the years, but it never quite sticks because I'm not doing anything to use it.

I did also have a couple of Michel Thomas cd's from the Guardian a while back.

...and I've downloaded DuoLingo this week after seeing the comments in this topic - I'm enjoying it and it's strangely 'more-ish' but I can't be sure how much of what's learned is actually sinking in!

Those who've had a experience of learning as a beginner via these methods, do you find it's alright to mix up various podcasts/series/apps/etc or is it better to stick with one programme?

Offline Claire.

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #195 on: June 30, 2015, 05:54:35 pm »

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #196 on: July 2, 2015, 02:54:11 pm »

Must. Not. Make. Offensive. Joke...

I have an excellent old book on French translations, I'll have to take a shot of a few.  There's a "woman" section on fashion and stuff, I'll grab it when I'm next at my mum's.
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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #197 on: July 20, 2015, 08:11:10 pm »
For anyone using the duolingo app, learning on the website is loads better!

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #198 on: July 22, 2015, 03:46:12 pm »
I've been trying to learn Spanish recently and have difficulty with the listening, so I've started watching The Simpsons dubbed in Spanish. I know the general plot but find it difficult to pick out the words without Spanish subtitles. Anyone experience doing anything similar? Should I just repeat scenes until I get the words?

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Re: Learning another language
« Reply #199 on: July 22, 2015, 03:47:36 pm »
I've been trying to learn Spanish recently and have difficulty with the listening, so I've started watching The Simpsons dubbed in Spanish. I know the general plot but find it difficult to pick out the words without Spanish subtitles. Anyone experience doing anything similar? Should I just repeat scenes until I get the words?

Maybe you should try it the other way round? Watch the English version with Spanish subtitles? That way you can understand what they are saying and see how it's translated into spanish?