Topic: Chewer of Toffees, scourge of Barça, Peeler of Spuds, Arse kicker, Wolves slayer

[JackWard33]

There's not over that small sample, but if Origi is not offering the physicality/that side of his game very well then for me we should be playing Sturridge. Baring in mind his outstanding goal record, intelligent running and passing, and the fact teams are now sitting off us more (with relative success)- I believe him to be a far, far better option whilst Mane is away.

He's a far better player than Origi at nearly everything on a football pitch BUT the huge problem we have is that it looks like Sturridge has lost some power endurance and can't play at full tilt for 90 minutes (based on his recent sub vs 90 min peorfmenaces) so it's a balancing act. In general starting Sturridge and getting a good 60 minutes from him and having Origi as a change from the bench is probably going to give us the most threat.

[Chief Brody]

I keep hearing about Sturridge having the better technique, ability to change a game, that moment of magic etc etc
but he just isnt showing it when he gets a chance AND he's out for three quarters of the season.

Yet every time I see Divvy play he gives absolutely everything, causes problems and more often than not gets goals,
he's not perfect, he's a bit up and down as young players tend to be but I would much rather see him in the starting lineup than Sturridge. And he seems relatively normal when it comes to injuries and recovery.


For someone with such great technique Studge gives the ball away an awful lot, takes too many touches, pulls step overs when theres no need time after time after time, often looks on his heels, slows things down. If he was scoring for fun when he gets a start it wouldnt be so bad, you could put up with him being injured for huge parts of the season, but he doesn't. Incredibly frustrating player.


With Divvy you know what you'll get, a big battering ram with decent pace, decent technique and a solid finisher and someone whos only going to get better AND give you more than 12 games a season.

Absolute no brainer, I honestly don't know how its still a discussion.

[Rattleduser]

he's promoted above sturridge because he presses better and has more pace and shows encouraging signs of the quality needed, klopp values this above what sturridge can bring. sturridge is a quality player in the right system

the long term answer is to get rid of sturridge and buy in a ready made replacement and let origi develop. don't even see a fully fit Ings being the answer

we need strength and depth even without european footy

[codswallop]

Thought Origi was poor yesterday,especially 2nd half,he couldn't control the ball when we cleared it,no wonder it kept coming back.

[JackWard33]

he's promoted above sturridge because he presses better and has more pace and shows encouraging signs of the quality needed, klopp values this above what sturridge can bring. sturridge is a quality player in the right system

the long term answer is to get rid of sturridge and buy in a ready made replacement and let origi develop. don't even see a fully fit Ings being the answering

we need strength and depth even without european footy

Origi doesn't press particularly well though - not sure why people have the view that he's an effective presser.

[Rattleduser]

Origi doesn't press particularly well though - not sure why people have the view that he's an effective presser.

compared to sturridge he does

[codswallop]

The lads got talent,but doesn't use it,also got pace,but rarely goes past a player.

[newterp]

The lads got talent,but doesn't use it,also got pace,but rarely goes past a player.

Lol. Ok.

[Caligula?]

He drifted out of the game as it went on, but I thought he did what he had to do yesterday and can see why he was selected over Sturridge. In that first half he ran at defenders and won us a couple of corners and free kicks as well. Given the weakened nature of our squad, I'm sure the plan would have been to nick a goal and then probably hold on or try and add another late on whilst they chased an equaliser. Origi gave us those opportunities in the first half but couldn't in the second when they turned up the pressure and was rightly substituted.

[Aldo96]

I keep hearing about Sturridge having the better technique, ability to change a game, that moment of magic etc etc
but he just isnt showing it when he gets a chance AND he's out for three quarters of the season.

Yet every time I see Divvy play he gives absolutely everything, causes problems and more often than not gets goals,
he's not perfect, he's a bit up and down as young players tend to be but I would much rather see him in the starting lineup than Sturridge. And he seems relatively normal when it comes to injuries and recovery.


For someone with such great technique Studge gives the ball away an awful lot, takes too many touches, pulls step overs when theres no need time after time after time, often looks on his heels, slows things down. If he was scoring for fun when he gets a start it wouldnt be so bad, you could put up with him being injured for huge parts of the season, but he doesn't. Incredibly frustrating player.


With Divvy you know what you'll get, a big battering ram with decent pace, decent technique and a solid finisher and someone whos only going to get better AND give you more than 12 games a season.

Absolute no brainer, I honestly don't know how its still a discussion.

Well, very recently Sturridge came on vs Everton and effectively won us the game, was our most lively and threatening player vs Sunderland, and also had several games earlier on in the season when he came on looking very sharp, creating great space and chances and was highly unfortunate not to score.

In terms of Origi 'giving everything and causing problems' well, the first is certainly true, but for me the majority of his general play has been poor touch and control, lack of intelligence or ideas, head down and running into trouble. Yes, he has scored a few goals out of nothing this season, but Sturridge is a far superior striker, and footballer, in pretty much every single aspect. 'Giving everything' is also very subjective and implies Sturridge, or others, don't give everything- something I believe to be hugely incorrect.

But, I didn't mean to turn this into a discussion about Sturridge, as we are on the Origi thread after all. I just think Origi's overall play has been poor on the whole this season and, in comparison to Firmino (often the watermark), his pressing play is highly inferior. Whether Sturridge is the answer or not is a different debate but I certainly feel Origi has not performed well this season and hampers our play more than adds to it, for the time being.

With Coutinho now back it's likely he'll be on the bench again now anyway.

[Chief Brody]

Sturridge is a far superior striker, and footballer, in pretty much every single aspect.

Yeah I keep hearing that, like I say.

Not for me. Not for a couple of seasons.

[JackWard33]

compared to sturridge he does

Okay fine - But the problem is they both press at a relatively ineffective level (as do most strikers - Firmino is a notable exception - partly because it's hard to press defenders, the team has to be high up and they always have the GK out ball) and the marginal gain you get from slightly better pressing arent enough to compensate for his problems keeping possession and - critically - getting shots from good locations.
I'm talking about relative merits here, as I posted before it's become obvious Sturridge has a power endurance problem over 90 minutes which complicates things

We're in a weird spot with strikers - Firmino is unique and we want to play him there but we're too thin in the wide forward spot so we can't do it consistently. This plus Sturrdiges fitness problems has meant Origi playing more minutes than is ideal and our attack has dropped off. It's not Origis fault - he's young for his type of forward - but he's not at the level right now where you'd want him to be your main striker in a top 6 side

[Rattleduser]

Okay fine - But the problem is they both press at a relatively ineffective level (as do most strikers - Firmino is a notable exception - partly because it's hard to press defenders, the team has to be high up and they always have the GK out ball) and the marginal gain you get from slightly better pressing arent enough to compensate for his problems keeping possession and - critically - getting shots from good locations.
I'm talking about relative merits here, as I posted before it's become obvious Sturridge has a power endurance problem over 90 minutes which complicates things

We're in a weird spot with strikers - Firmino is unique and we want to play him there but we're too thin in the wide forward spot so we can't do it consistently. This plus Sturrdiges fitness problems has meant Origi playing more minutes than is ideal and our attack has dropped off. It's not Origis fault - he's young for his type of forward - but he's not at the level right now where you'd want him to be your main striker in a top 6 side

 I agree with what you are saying.

sturridge and origi are back up options. we bring in a forward stronger than we have in the first team or someone more suited than sturridge as a more capable back up in klopps style of play when they are called upon, origi possesses those qualities, but like you said he's not at the level.

[Aldo96]

Yeah I keep hearing that, like I say.

Not for me. Not for a couple of seasons.

Genuine question- what is that you believe Origi posses, apart from 'physicality', that makes him better than Sturridge?

[mrantarctica]

Genuine question- what is that you believe Origi posses, apart from 'physicality', that makes him better than Sturridge?

I think Sturridge is a better player. Origi is available more often however and I think that is a big part of it.

I don't think JK thinks Sturridge fits in our system all that well. He perhaps feels that he doesn't have the intensity to be able to press and fight, as well as then go and finish important chances

[rawcusk8]

One of them nights for him tonight, definately one to forget for him. He's 21 and will go through these types of runs.

[Chakan]

Should practice his pens. Still 21 and will be a much better player than he is now.

No worries about him.

[Passmaster Molby]

Two games against Plymouth and he has been poor in both. Must do better if he wants a long term future here.

[Nick110581]

Awful tonight - seems to be lacking confidence

[sminp]

Awful tonight - seems to be lacking confidence

I said it in the full time thread and I'll say it here. He's a kid himself (only 21) and he's going through a bad patch of him, the same thing happens to plenty of experienced strikers. He just needs a scrappy goal to get a bit of confidence back. We shouldn't worry about him, he'll work his way through this.

[ThePeetmix]

Just lacking in confidence. But he's shown he can get through it, and when he gets on it he's a very dangerous player. Just taking him out the limelight for a bit and back on the training field will do him the world of good.

[harryc]

Just a slump in form which is understandable for a 21 year old.

[Fruity]

I actually thought he was better than sturridge and actually looked better once sturridge went off. He held the ball up quite well a couple of times towards the end but overall it wasn't the greatest night.

If there was a scale for penalties, one end being Charlie Adam's league cup one then Divocks wouldn't be too far off that. One of the worse I have seen from us for a long time.

[Caligula?]

We haven't been at our fluid attacking best for about a month now, it's no surpise his form has dipped as well.

[Phil M]

That dribble and shot at the end was really well worked. Showed he didn't drop his head after the peno. Looked like the keeper got a feint touch in the replay.

[KiNki]

Not the penalty that bothers me, it's ability to hold the ball up, dominate his centre back/full back opponent by chasing/harrying and generally getting in their face, and his first touch is dreadful at the moment.  Perhaps he needs a few games with u23s to sharpen his skills, get some confidence.   Rank tonight.

[Suareznumber7]

Not a great game tonight but had a few good moments.  He was much better after Sturridge went off and he was the sole striker. 

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Two games against Plymouth and he has been poor in both. Must do better if he wants a long term future here.

There was a period in the run up to his injury last season where I felt he was one of the better players in a first team that was doing really well. We seemed to be able to bang the ball up to him from all sorts of angles and it would stick, sometimes in situations where it looked like he had little right to even compete for the ball, let alone win it and recycle. More recently it was only a few weeks ago when the commentators/pundits were starting to reference his (at that point) very impressive goals per minute record. He definitely has the talent to make it.

At the moment he's struggling though and it won't be helped by tonight. The goals have dried up and the ball is bouncing off him. Ideal solution is that he plays his way out of it this season. If not he has the summer to clear his head and then start again next season. So long as he keeps putting the work in on the training pitch and earning appearances I wouldn't begin to worry unless he spends all next season struggling like he has done for a short spell recently.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

If there was a scale for penalties, one end being Charlie Adam's league cup one then Divocks wouldn't be too far off that. One of the worse I have seen from us for a long time.

Didn't someone make an absolute hash of one in the LC final last year? It happens - I think we've been blessed over the last few years with two Pen takers who are reliable both in terms of taking the pens themselves and in being on the pitch to take them.

[Suareznumber7]

There was a period in the run up to his injury last season where I felt he was one of the better players in a first team that was doing really well. We seemed to be able to bang the ball up to him from all sorts of angles and it would stick, sometimes in situations where it looked like he had little right to even compete for the ball, let alone win it and recycle. More recently it was only a few weeks ago when the commentators/pundits were starting to reference his (at that point) very impressive goals per minute record. He definitely has the talent to make it.

At the moment he's struggling though and it won't be helped by tonight. The goals have dried up and the ball is bouncing off him. Ideal solution is that he plays his way out of it this season. If not he has the summer to clear his head and then start again next season. So long as he keeps putting the work in on the training pitch and earning appearances I wouldn't begin to worry unless he spends all next season struggling like he has done for a short spell recently.

The development of young players is never linear.  There's always going to be peaks and valleys until they mature and reach their potential.  There are very few exceptions to this. 

[El Lobo]

Looks a bit like he did when he first arrived, no biggy. That's what kids do, it's sadly not all Fowlers and Owens

[Kennys from heaven]

Definitely in a run of bad form, but that's what happens from time to time.

Still showing glimpses, but the number of changes around him is not helping as well. Will come good again though, but that peno was fucking awful! You could tell he didn't fancy it when they were showing close-ups of him over the ball and so it came to pass.

Hey-ho... 

[RyanBabel19]

21 years old but you would not believe it for a second reading some of the shit on here

Thankfully the lad comes across as a very intellegent individual and will keep his head up and realise that bad games happen as do bad runs of form

[Sammy5IsAlive]

The development of young players is never linear.  There's always going to be peaks and valleys until they mature and reach their potential.  There are very few exceptions to this.

Agreed to an extent. I don't think its a given that every player reaches his potential though. Many players react well to the adversity of that first poor run of form and push on to their potential but I'd say a substantial proportion struggle to get their momentum back and drop down to a lower level without ever realising the potential they initially showed.

I really rate Origi and feel positive that he has already bounced back from what was a pretty disastrous loan in France and a bad injury last season. But I don't think that anyone, least of all the player himself, can just relax completely and assume that his form/potential will just come back naturally without a big effort both mentally and in training.

[Suareznumber7]

Agreed to an extent. I don't think its a given that every player reaches his potential though. Many players react well to the adversity of that first poor run of form and push on to their potential but I'd say a substantial proportion struggle to get their momentum back and drop down to a lower level without ever realising the potential they initially showed.

I really rate Origi and feel positive that he has already bounced back from what was a pretty disastrous loan in France and a bad injury last season. But I don't think that anyone, least of all the player himself, can just relax completely and assume that his form/potential will just come back naturally without a big effort both mentally and in training.

Agree on both points. 

[sminp]

Looks a bit like he did when he first arrived, no biggy. That's what kids do, it's sadly not all Fowlers and Owens

Owen had plenty of dips in form too.

[ShrewKop]

21 years old but you would not believe it for a second reading some of the shit on here

Thankfully the lad comes across as a very intellegent individual and will keep his head up and realise that bad games happen as do bad runs of form

When he's in form, he looks like a seasoned pro with the ability to take on anyone, so I think people's expectations grow that he should be consistently that good. It doesn't help as well with all the injuries we've had, more responsibility is put on him, and if he doesn't produce, he's in the firing line.

I've no doubts he'll hit form again soon and remind everyone how good he can be

[idontknow]

He'll be alright, the team all over has been functional more than inspirational recently, not such a bad thing since we're still in everything despite having lost a bit of our earlier pizzazz. We've missed Coutinho, Matip, even Lallana's gone a bit quiet, but we're still in everything. In previous seasons, when our form dips a little, we've gone out of things. We'll pick it up, and Origi will be an important player when we do. It's not that important whether he scores a hat-trick against Plymouth, Lucas got all that we needed; if he has a run of strong games in the league for us, that could be crucial.

We'll get back among the goals soon enough, and Origi will be an important part of that.

[riismeister]

He'll do better playing alongside a match fit Coutinho and Firmino, and with a more mature midfield behind him.

[Popcorn]

Just heard he's missed the last 5 penalties he's taken Maybe that should be the end of him on pens.

Surprised to see him struggling at the moment, his confidence seems to have taken a real hit.  Happens with young players though and I trust Klopp to help him rediscover it.