Author Topic: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!  (Read 171663 times)

Offline Avens

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #280 on: January 2, 2024, 06:11:13 am »
Swapping countries is in my view impractical for two main reasons. We all acknowledge that communication with players is key to having games flow and preventing ridiculous outcomes. How many foreign referees are fluent in English, and how many English referees are fluent in Italian or Spanish just to name a few? Yes, the CL has cross-border teams but these are one-offs, can they do it week on week? Who will pay for increased costs of travel, visa apps, etc?

The other thing is subconscious bias. Maybe it won’t be possible to pinpoint it to a discernible degree like with the doubts over allegiance based on if a certain referee comes from the greater Manchester area. But referees of a certain age will no doubt have grown up watching and supporting Liverpool as a second team when Liverpool won everything. Or Everton. Or Arsenals, romanced by the Invincibles. Or United, for many referees now in their late 30s. Or Chelsea or City for those even younger. It is also highly unlikely that many of them would have even heard of Sheffield United, Luton, or Portsmouth to name a few. Meaning subconsciously, there will always be a bias towards teams they’ve heard of rather than not, meaning big clubs will get more decisions in their favour - a trend we see now in any case.

I don’t think the infrastructure is in place for referee exchanges, at least not in the short to medium term …

Language is a particularly good point to be fair. Less of an issue if we have Dutch or German or Scandinavian refs here, but yeah sending British refs to Italy would be a problem on that front.
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Offline decosabute

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #281 on: January 2, 2024, 06:18:02 am »
Those who are arguing against Knight by saying Taylor had to give those penalties are talking nonsense. He really didn't. They both look like penalties to me and they were correctly given, but there are plenty who think otherwise and just that fact by its nature means he could have got away with not giving it. I think he had a weird game where he got the major calls right, but got lots of marginal things wrong.

I hate the grand conspiracy chat, but acknowledge that subconscious bias can have an impact on refereeing. It's one reason I think referees should swap countries. It massively reduces the potential for that kind of subconscious bias.

Nah. They both looked absolutely stonewall in real time. And they're both in situations where the player obviously would take the chance if he could. Diaz is six yards out, Jota has rounded the keeper. Taylor gave them because they were obvious pens and he couldn't avoid it. The only "debate" over them has come from agenda-driven wankers who are looking at slow after slow and still wilfully missing the obvious places where the player gets caught.

Fine if people don't think there's corruption. I personally don't think Taylor is corrupt either (just appalling and biased and probably the most over-promoted ref in football history), but I have my doubts about others given the circumstances of statistical anomalies, reffing in UAE etc. And I definitely get fed up at the "see, we got obvious pens, so you're all mad" stuff.
« Last Edit: January 2, 2024, 06:19:39 am by decosabute »

Offline Gladbach73

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #282 on: January 2, 2024, 07:12:25 am »
All this talk about Jota diving is total Bull****. As an ex ref, if a player with a low centre of gravity is running at pace, and the replays clearly show the slightest of touch against one leg which then clips his other leg, causing him to lose balance and go over. No dive, correct decision of a penalty.
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Offline vblfc

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #283 on: January 2, 2024, 07:33:21 am »
Language is a particularly good point to be fair. Less of an issue if we have Dutch or German or Scandinavian refs here, but yeah sending British refs to Italy would be a problem on that front.
I see this differently - Language is only an initial issue. Plenty of Brits relocate to Europe and deal with language. Many of the referee’s tasks are the same anyway in Italy as England.  Travel is also a manageable issue - So refs would relocate or actually get on with the travel. Many thousands of people in lesser paid jobs do this all around Europe. If it’s part of the job you do it, or you don’t get the job.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #284 on: January 2, 2024, 07:43:29 am »
All this talk about Jota diving is total Bull****. As an ex ref, if a player with a low centre of gravity is running at pace, and the replays clearly show the slightest of touch against one leg which then clips his other leg, causing him to lose balance and go over. No dive, correct decision of a penalty.

It's always a shitstorm if we get a decision.
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #285 on: January 2, 2024, 07:57:39 am »
It's always a shitstorm if we get a decision.

To then be used against us the next time we complain about not getting a stonewall one.

Didn’t see the game as still away. Sounded like we were pretty dominant (hugely dominant looking at the xG). I saw we had 34 shots and 66% of the ball. So we had twice as much possession, we’re getting shots off every 3 minutes and yet we still managed to commit more fouls than a notoriously pretty physical and cynical side. It’s that kind of stuff that riles up the Anfield crowd in the moment. The ref letting stuff go for them, and then pulling us up for similar things.


Offline Lad

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #286 on: January 2, 2024, 08:02:12 am »
I think all the corruption conspiracy theorists should read Fitzy's page one OP.... take a deep breath then go and make a nice cup of tea...aaaanndd relax.

Offline Knight

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #287 on: January 2, 2024, 08:02:15 am »
Nah. They both looked absolutely stonewall in real time. And they're both in situations where the player obviously would take the chance if he could. Diaz is six yards out, Jota has rounded the keeper. Taylor gave them because they were obvious pens and he couldn't avoid it. The only "debate" over them has come from agenda-driven wankers who are looking at slow after slow and still wilfully missing the obvious places where the player gets caught.

Fine if people don't think there's corruption. I personally don't think Taylor is corrupt either (just appalling and biased and probably the most over-promoted ref in football history), but I have my doubts about others given the circumstances of statistical anomalies, reffing in UAE etc. And I definitely get fed up at the "see, we got obvious pens, so you're all mad" stuff.

No, what actually happened is a bunch of people complained - in the post match thread, in the VAR thread, about the ref. In a game where he gave us the big calls and made, probably ONE, bad call on a yellow card (where joelinton fouled Diaz and somehow it wasn’t even given as a foul and Diaz and Diaz was booked for complaining). The other ‘bad’ yellow card call was when Joelinton tried and failed to stop a counter and that turns out to have been the right call according to the rules. He probably got a few other little things wrong too. But he also got the big calls, the penalty calls for us, right. And if he’d wanted to he needn’t have given either. After all it seems refs are prone to bottling big calls these days and letting VAR bail them out. And then VAR can claim it’s not a ‘clear and obvious error’. That is, if the ref wanted to screw us, he very easily could have. But no, this is ignored and instead people cry wolf at bad calls on yellow cards. So it’s incessant shouts of corruption and bias and cheating in the face of the actual evidence, it’s really boring and if you genuinely think there is corruption from the refs it’s also boy who cried wolf stuff.

This is the approach all too often…
Basically if calls go against us which we don’t understand - referees are corrupt/ bias/ cheating.

If calls go against which we disagree with or are wrong - refs are corrupt/ bias/ cheating.

If calls go for us which are right - refs are just ‘toeing the line’ and don’t mean anything as to whether refs are corrupt/ cheating/ bias.

If calls go for us which are disputable - there’s no dispute, they were clearly right to go for us and don’t mean anything as to whether refs are corrupt/ cheating/ bias.

If your point of view is unfalsifiable you’re welcome to keep believing fairy tales but maybe don’t clog up the forum with them.

Offline alonsoisared

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #288 on: January 2, 2024, 08:42:37 am »
We basically had one bad call against us last night, the Joelinton non-yellow. And it turns out that according to the rules that's not even a yellow anymore.

A few people mentioning why we get the same amount of yellows as our opposition even when we have so much more of the ball and make less fouls. I think the answer to that is quite obvious. Fouls don't automatically mean yellow cards, for starters. But if you've got 11 men behind the ball and make a niggly foul on the halfway line, then that's a pretty regulation foul. The only way you're getting yellows for those is if it's persistent from the same player. Because of the way we play, most of the fouls we tend to make are when the opposition have just won the ball back and, where we've commited so many bodies forward, they have a fairly dangerous looking counter attacking situation. Trip someone up on the halfway line when they're 4 vs 4 is going to be a yellow card every day of the week.

To be honest it's getting to the point where it's becoming a bit embarrassing now and I genuinely think Klopp isn't helping with the way he is spending 90 minutes berating the officials. Every team is getting bad decisions against them because the refs haven't got a fucking clue what they're doing. Saying that I thought Taylor was very good last night, other than possibly the last 10 minutes of the first half where he started to lose a bit of control. Everyone else who watched that game last night is reflecting on a Jota dive and how Liverpool "always" get lucky with decisions.

RAWK laughing off anyone who doesn't think it's a conspiracy against us while the rest of the world think it's their club on the receiving end of the conspiracy and that we are always the beneficiaries sums it all up- everyone is deeply biased, obviously, towards their own teams and the refs are the easy scapegoats when things go wrong.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #289 on: January 2, 2024, 08:47:53 am »
I questioned the number of fouls awarded rather than the number of yellows. We seem to consistently give away more fouls than the other team and almost always dominate the ball.

Offline alonsoisared

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #290 on: January 2, 2024, 08:53:00 am »
I questioned the number of fouls awarded rather than the number of yellows. We seem to consistently give away more fouls than the other team and almost always dominate the ball.
Yep fair enough Nick, not just aimed at you, it's an argument I see a lot. But again you could say that teams tend to back off us, whereas as soon as we lose the ball we are all over the opposition which will often lead to fouls.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #291 on: January 2, 2024, 10:05:03 am »
Yep fair enough Nick, not just aimed at you, it's an argument I see a lot. But again you could say that teams tend to back off us, whereas as soon as we lose the ball we are all over the opposition which will often lead to fouls.
Some were clearly dives though.

Offline Andy82lfc

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #292 on: January 2, 2024, 10:15:56 am »
People are so desperate to protect refs, fucking refs who elbow our players, fly to Abu Dhabi and take money days before the biggest var ‘mistake’ ever; that some would rather suggest our players are diving instead.  :lmao

Absolute madness.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #293 on: January 2, 2024, 10:20:21 am »
We basically had one bad call against us last night, the Joelinton non-yellow. And it turns out that according to the rules that's not even a yellow anymore.


It definitely wasn’t one decision against us. Diaz and Trent being booked for complaining about clear fouls not given or soft ones being given, while Joelinton could have been booked three times before he finally was.

Salah being dragged down and ignored, while Gordon throws himself over and Endo is booked. Diaz being shouldered over by Joelinton and Taylor waving it away. Forcing play on when we’d have rather have had the free-kicks and the two players booked, the second of which led to their second goal.

 The fact that we ended up with more fouls against us than Newcastle, when they played like absolute yard dogs, is baffling.

I don’t personally think there is corruption, just terrible officiating. And some of that manifests itself in refs *choosing* to ref certain Liverpool players differently.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #294 on: January 2, 2024, 10:41:02 am »
It definitely wasn’t one decision against us. Diaz and Trent being booked for complaining about clear fouls not given or soft ones being given, while Joelinton could have been booked three times before he finally was.

Salah being dragged down and ignored, while Gordon throws himself over and Endo is booked. Diaz being shouldered over by Joelinton and Taylor waving it away. Forcing play on when we’d have rather have had the free-kicks and the two players booked, the second of which led to their second goal.

 The fact that we ended up with more fouls against us than Newcastle, when they played like absolute yard dogs, is baffling.

I don’t personally think there is corruption, just terrible officiating. And some of that manifests itself in refs *choosing* to ref certain Liverpool players differently.

Both Joelinton and Guimares should have been booked for repetitive fouling in the first half, which would have put a serious cramp on their game plan.

The Liverpool players and Jurgen were all clearly very frustrated with the refereeing, with both Diaz and Trent having to calm themselves down. There was a flare up towards the end of the half when both sets of players squared up to each other after Miley's challenge (on Jota I think). That challenge was the clear result of the referee being far too lax in controlling Newcastle's persistent fouling.
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #295 on: January 2, 2024, 10:46:33 am »
There was some poor referring last night, not giving fouls and not giving bookings. That said, at least in part the players were frustrated because they didn’t know the rules about the Joelinton foul. And this is the thread about corruption. It order for the corruption/ conspiracy theory shouts not to seem like tin hat silliness there needs to be much more than just, ‘the ref was too lax with Newcastle persistent fouls’. There’s a burden of proof here that the tin hat brigade fall very far short of in terms of games like last night.

Offline DG

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #296 on: January 2, 2024, 10:56:44 am »
When asked "why did Liverpool get the pen", the common answer over on RedCafe is "because it's Liverpool". According to them, we get everything and the opposition nothing, game after game after game.

Any given game, the ref had it in for us according to Liverpool fans and the ref gave us everything according to rival fans. To think that both sides can be pleased simultaneously is folly. Yesterday is just another example of it, fans are livid on here, and they're livid on RedCafe, for diametrically opposite reasons.

To be completely honest, I think the one true sign of a poor refereeing performance is that either side actually is pleased. Because if you give everything the way a one-eyed fanbase wants to, you're not doing your job properly.

Offline alonsoisared

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #297 on: January 2, 2024, 11:19:32 am »
It definitely wasn’t one decision against us. Diaz and Trent being booked for complaining about clear fouls not given or soft ones being given, while Joelinton could have been booked three times before he finally was.

Salah being dragged down and ignored, while Gordon throws himself over and Endo is booked. Diaz being shouldered over by Joelinton and Taylor waving it away. Forcing play on when we’d have rather have had the free-kicks and the two players booked, the second of which led to their second goal.

 The fact that we ended up with more fouls against us than Newcastle, when they played like absolute yard dogs, is baffling.

I don’t personally think there is corruption, just terrible officiating. And some of that manifests itself in refs *choosing* to ref certain Liverpool players differently.
But you aren't going to get every single decision mate, that's football. The decisions you've listed are all pretty 50/50, if they went our way we'd think correct and Newcastle would think it's a joke and the ref is in our favour. A couple of them (I don't know how people manage to remember every single foul in the game ;D ) probably were fouls but refs are always going to miss a few, it's the nature of the game. The Joelinton one was the only one where I thought he'd made a big mistake because he acknowledged it was a foul that broke up an attack and you would usually always see a yellow card for that.

Diaz and Trent shouldn't have reacted the way they did either, in fact Trent's in particular was just stupidity. You know what's going to happen when you kick the ball away in frustration.

When you look at the big decisions in the game, they got it all spot on. The linesmen both correctly called every tight offside decision without needing VAR interference, and the ref correctly awarded us two penalties. I genuinely thought the refereeing was good yesterday and yet you've got everyone on here calling conspiracy against Liverpool and everyone else saying conspiracy for Liverpool.

Refs and the VAR system have had loads of fair criticism but they must be wondering what the fuck they have to do after yesterday. They've got Klopp hounding the 4th official all game, Howe slagging then after the game, they've been booed off the pitch at the end of each half despite giving us a penalty in each, they've got all the major decisions spot on and quickly clarified by VAR and yet absolutely nobody is happy. It's little wonder they go into the mode of protecting their own at times because they're on a hiding to nothing.

The tone is set by people on all sides who've made up there's an agenda and then spend every game finding evidence to prove it. Every little incident now is turned into something it's not and nobody is blameless in that. Managers, players and pundits first and foremost need to get a grip of their behaviour. There are serious questions to ask about the standard of refereeing and the implementation of VAR in this country but its clouded and just becomes a joke when there's such extreme reactions, on all sides, to games like last nights.
« Last Edit: January 2, 2024, 11:26:31 am by alonsoisared »

Offline Lad

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #298 on: January 2, 2024, 11:31:07 am »
People are so desperate to protect refs, fucking refs who elbow our players, fly to Abu Dhabi and take money days before the biggest var ‘mistake’ ever; that some would rather suggest our players are diving instead.  :lmao

Absolute madness.

I think the Spurs fuck up could have happened at any time to any team. It was an accident waiting to happen. But because it happened to us it doesn't make it a conspiracy.

Do you think people in power meet in secret to plan these things ?

That's absolute madness if you do.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #299 on: January 2, 2024, 11:41:26 am »
Taylor lost control of the game by allowing Newcastle to have open season against our players. It's not an aberration either - we see it time after time in games. Our players are treated as rag dolls.

He didn't get the big calls right - they were so stonewall that he couldn't get away with getting them wrong.

It's not a lack of consistency - the rules are simply more firmly applied against us than against other teams; and I feel it's a deliberate bias. We see game after game of players kicking balls away, getting right in a ref's face, swearing etc - and often it's just let go. But if the team that won the fair play award six years on the bounce so much as twitches...

Bad decisions plague all games, but its taken to another level against us. Taylor encouraged Newcastle to become more and more reckless last night. I'm just grateful there wasn't more damage caused.
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Offline blamski

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #300 on: January 2, 2024, 11:44:00 am »
When asked "why did Liverpool get the pen", the common answer over on RedCafe is "because it's Liverpool". According to them, we get everything and the opposition nothing, game after game after game.

Any given game, the ref had it in for us according to Liverpool fans and the ref gave us everything according to rival fans. To think that both sides can be pleased simultaneously is folly. Yesterday is just another example of it, fans are livid on here, and they're livid on RedCafe, for diametrically opposite reasons.

To be completely honest, I think the one true sign of a poor refereeing performance is that either side actually is pleased. Because if you give everything the way a one-eyed fanbase wants to, you're not doing your job properly.

This is an excellent post and sums it up perfectly. We get so emotionally wound up with our team that any perceived injustices against us become hugely magnified. Simultaneously all other fans of other teams are doing the same. We've had some really shit decisions go against us, for sure, but its surely down to bad officiating, challenging circumstances, badly used VAR and so on than a direct campaign against us. Or anyone else.

To try and discern if there is a conspiracy around anything the question to ask is 'what to the conspirators hope to gain?'
So why would there be a conspiracy against us?
Because PMGOL / FIFA /UEFA /the FA hates us?
Because they can't bear to see us win another title?
Because they're punishing us for something?
Because another team are their darlings?

none of the above really makes any sense...

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #301 on: January 2, 2024, 11:55:49 am »
Fucking hell - not a good night for the conspiracy theorists 😁😁😁😁😁

Offline Koplass

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #302 on: January 2, 2024, 12:14:22 pm »
It's always a shitstorm if we get a decision.

Absolutely! I remember a point during the title winning season when opposition fans were going crazy over literally anything given in our favour, down to throw-ins and the like. It was insane!

I can see why Jota's looks like a dive but why on earth would a clinical striker dive when they're through on an open goal? All he had to do was poke it in the net.

But it's Liverpool, so the rest of the country will be frothing at the mouth instead of using basic reasoning skills...
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #303 on: January 2, 2024, 12:18:54 pm »
Absolutely! I remember a point during the title winning season when opposition fans were going crazy over literally anything given in our favour, down to throw-ins and the like. It was insane!

I can see why Jota's looks like a dive but why on earth would a clinical striker dive when they're through on an open goal? All he had to do was poke it in the net.

But it's Liverpool, so the rest of the country will be frothing at the mouth instead of using basic reasoning skills...

The other thing they're not taking into account are the conditions. It was so slippery out there, it wouldn't have taken a huge tap by someone to bring him down or at at least unbalance him enough for him to hit the ground. At the end of the day he's a natural goal scorer. He would have finished the chance if he could have.
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Offline blamski

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #304 on: January 2, 2024, 12:24:15 pm »
Every single able bodied person on the planet has been tripped while running. How many of them have stopped and fallen at the exact point of contact?

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #305 on: January 2, 2024, 12:28:48 pm »
Over the two Newcastle games Joelinton did enough to be sent off four times.
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #306 on: January 2, 2024, 12:31:20 pm »
Not saying it's bent or not but neither penalty was soft, both had very clear contact.

I'm saying it's NOT bent. Both were penalties but a bent refereeing team could easily have overturned both decisions and, indeed, given both players yellow cards. That's what bent means. They could also have quite easily awarded Newcastle a penalty at the Kop end. Once again it would have been the wrong decision, but not so outrageously wrong as to provoke an inquiry.
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #307 on: January 2, 2024, 12:36:39 pm »
People are so desperate to protect refs, fucking refs who elbow our players, fly to Abu Dhabi and take money days before the biggest var ‘mistake’ ever; that some would rather suggest our players are diving instead.  :lmao

Absolute madness.
That's a totally mad shout.

No-one likes the refs on here, and the universal opinion appears to be that they're shite, there often seems to be a selective bias, and that there needs to be a massive improvement.

But just because some don't go along with the full corruption/conspiracy theories, doesn't mean anyone is 'desperate to protect the refs' (which is a pretty grim thing to say about fellow reds).
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #308 on: January 2, 2024, 12:39:35 pm »
I'm saying it's NOT bent. Both were penalties but a bent refereeing team could easily have overturned both decisions and, indeed, given both players yellow cards. That's what bent means. They could also have quite easily awarded Newcastle a penalty at the Kop end. Once again it would have been the wrong decision, but not so outrageously wrong as to provoke an inquiry.
True. He got the big decisions spot on.

He was awful for decisions pertaining to the general flow of the game such as not punishing persistent fouling.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #309 on: January 2, 2024, 12:41:12 pm »
I think the Spurs fuck up could have happened at any time to any team. It was an accident waiting to happen. But because it happened to us it doesn't make it a conspiracy.

Do you think people in power meet in secret to plan these things ?

That's absolute madness if you do.

It happened less than 48 hours after they had been flown first class to Abu Dhabi and given tens of thousands for a single match. In the majority of work scenarios that would be deemed as completely reprehensible at best.

Surely you are not that naive to not understand these things go on in western society and it’s a possibility.

Our own government, PM’s and many others have been openly involved in corruption on a daily basis. FIFA and UEFA and both had major involvement in major corruption scandals. The Italian FA also, I could go on and on. Yet our blessed PL referees are above all of that right?

I’m not saying they have by certainty and also not saying it is solely against us. Yet to not understand that in a lot of instances inbred bias or corruption is not a big probability is laughable. The alternative being to just simply brush off event after event after event after event as incompetence; yes it’s absolutely fucking absurd indeed.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #310 on: January 2, 2024, 12:42:42 pm »
Over the two Newcastle games Joelinton did enough to be sent off four times.

It’s an interesting one, Doc.

The standout player over the past several seasons for ‘avoiding’ cards for ‘tactical’ fouls (in a team more cynically adept at them than most) was Fernandinho. He was truly exceptional at performing the dark arts in such a way as to appear just clumsy, thus time and again avoiding sanction. I can’t see any evidence that Joelinton is in the same masterful category.
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #311 on: January 2, 2024, 01:33:27 pm »
Genuinely amazing that people could watch the whole game last night and say one bad decision went against us.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #312 on: January 2, 2024, 01:36:01 pm »
It’s an interesting one, Doc.

The standout player over the past several seasons for ‘avoiding’ cards for ‘tactical’ fouls (in a team more cynically adept at them than most) was Fernandinho. He was truly exceptional at performing the dark arts in such a way as to appear just clumsy, thus time and again avoiding sanction. I can’t see any evidence that Joelinton is in the same masterful category.
He doesn't try to hide it at all, and then brandishes the imaginary yellow, and for good measure tells the ref to, "Fuck off".
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #313 on: January 2, 2024, 01:43:32 pm »
Genuinely amazing that people could watch the whole game last night and say one bad decision went against us.

Which decisions do you feel went against us?

I ask because if someone asked me that question I wouldn't be able to answer it and be absolutely confident that I was right without watching the game back (which I appreciate you may have done).

I think it's really easy to get caught in the midst of a feverous game as last night was, hear the crowd (who don't have the best view of fouls etc) screaming 'you Manc bastard' at the referee, see the players getting visibly frustrated and come to the conclusion that we've been really hard done by, without ever actually reviewing the decisions and clarifying that you definitely feel they were incorrect.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #314 on: January 2, 2024, 01:50:08 pm »
Which decisions do you feel went against us?

I ask because if someone asked me that question I wouldn't be able to answer it and be absolutely confident that I was right without watching the game back (which I appreciate you may have done).

I think it's really easy to get caught in the midst of a feverous game as last night was, hear the crowd (who don't have the best view of fouls etc) screaming 'you Manc bastard' at the referee, see the players getting visibly frustrated and come to the conclusion that we've been really hard done by, without ever actually reviewing the decisions and clarifying that you definitely feel they were incorrect.
I think you've misread their post.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #315 on: January 2, 2024, 01:51:57 pm »
I think you've misread their post.

They have said it's amazing that anyone could watch the entire match and feel that only one decision went against us, I assume implying that more than one went against us.

I am asking which decisions that person feels went against us, unless I'm missing something.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #316 on: January 2, 2024, 01:54:30 pm »
They have said it's amazing that anyone could watch the entire match and feel that only one decision went against us, I assume implying that more than one went against us.

I am asking which decisions that person feels went against us, unless I'm missing something.
I read it as it's amazing anyone could watch it and say one bad decision went against us, meaning no bad decisions went against us. I could be wrong, I reread it and wasn't confident in my initial interpretation.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #317 on: January 2, 2024, 02:00:52 pm »
So desperate to be the cool kid that you're arguing with somebody who agrees with you.


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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #318 on: January 2, 2024, 02:09:41 pm »
Referees literally got paid by Man City's owners to officiate in their country in the middle of the PL season.

As someone else said before, if John Henry paid a bunch of them to go and officiate for another one of his investments, there would be national uproar.

There is a lot of condescending language in this thread about people who believe - with plenty of evidence - that something foul is going on. It doesn't mean every single decision in every single game, but there is enough smoke to indicate there is a fire.

There is corruption, and there is incompetence. As with government, it's a fine line to determine which is which.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #319 on: January 2, 2024, 02:18:32 pm »
I read it as it's amazing anyone could watch it and say one bad decision went against us, meaning no bad decisions went against us. I could be wrong, I reread it and wasn't confident in my initial interpretation.
I read it the same as you. I think the poster was saying we didn't have any bad decisions against us.
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