Author Topic: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance  (Read 223483 times)

Offline alonsoisared

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The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« on: February 5, 2024, 04:33:01 pm »
With just 15 games to go, European football on its way back and the first cup final of the season looming, it's starting to feel like the business end of the season. Another title challenge beckons, our last under the Shankly of my generation. Let the hysteria commence.

Yesterday was the definition of a mood killer. The reds had been limping through games up to Christmas, getting wins without playing their best football, but exploded into life through January, culminating in the dismantling of Chelsea in midweek. A result and performance up there with anything else produced in the Klopp era. There was real hope that we might all but kill off Arsenal and make a big statement yesterday, but unfortunately it wasn't to be. A game too far with our current injuries, perhaps, but we still remain top. Personally, I felt an odd sense of calm. It's one result at a very tough ground, and things are still in our hands.

There's an obvious sense reading this forum that many of us are somewhat scarred by title challenges of old. The year we won it was on the back of a frankly preposterous run of form up until February, every challenger blown away and left in the dust by Boxing Day. The tight challenges of the last decade we have ultimately come up short. Part of the calmness after yesterday, for me at least, is that contrary to how those races are talked about, 2 of them we had to chase down a big lead and were never favourites. In 2022 we gave City a hearty head start- at one point in the second half of the season we were a whopping 11 points behind, admittedly with a game in hand. in 13/14 the same, we trailed City and Chelsea by some margin and needed to be perfect just to get in with a shout. This year we haven't left ourselves in a position where we need to overcome a massive lead, we've set ourselves up perfectly heading into the business end.

18/19 was the only time we really went toe to toe with City for a whole season, and those draws with Everton and United particularly stand out. We thought at the time that they might be decent results, but ultimately they were the afternoons where we relinquished control, never to wrestle it back. Understandable, then, that yesterday's result was such a tough one to take. But, the power is still in our hands. At this point in time, man for man, I don't think either City or Arsenal are any stronger than us. With City still to come to Anfield, perhaps this could be the time to lay the ghosts of 13/14, 18/19 and 21/22 to bed by coming out on top in a close run race.

Here are our remaining fixtures.

Burnley (H)
Brentford (A)
Luton (H)
Forest (A)
Man City (H)
Everton (A)
Brighton (H)
Sheffield Utd (H)
United (A)
Palace (H)
Fulham (A)
West Ham (A)
Tottenham (H)
Villa (A)
Wolves (H)

The standouts there (other than the obvious City game at Anfield), just to strike the fear of 18/19 back into us all, are the sight of Old Trafford, Goodison and a final home match against Wolves. How many will we need to win? A lot depends on the damage De Bruyne and Haaland can do on their return. Recent history makes us fear that it might have to be all 15. The actual form of the top three over the course of the season suggests that possibly 12 or 13, if one of them is City, should be enough.

A little plea for calm. For myself as much as everyone else. Jurgen's last dance. We all want success anyway, but I think Klopp's announcement has made us even more desperate to add another Premier League trophy. The thought of him "only" winning 1 just doesn't seem right given how unbelievably good he has been for us. The thought of him and his squad being denied a full Anfield and a parade after finally breaking the 30 year duck. If footballing justice exists then he gets the goodbye to end all goodbyes, paraded in front of the Kop vs Wolves with the trophy in his hands. Then, if we're being greedy, a European final in Dublin and an FA Cup final at Wembley to top it all off. But we know all too well that these things very rarely pan out that way. Football can be cruel. Gerrard's slip, falling short by a matter of millimetres in 2019, City's final day comeback in 2022. Let's not let this final season define his era, or spend too much time thinking about might have been without the cheats down the road. Let's try and enjoy the ride- you never know how long we might have to wait for the next shot at glory, and even if we win multiple leagues under a different manager, things may not ever quite feel the same without our current boss.

If there is a lesson to be learned from the past, perhaps it's that there is such a thing as wanting it too much . Maybe cooler heads in 2014 sees us through that Chelsea game, or seals the win vs Palace that at least puts a bit more pressure on City ahead of their final 2 games. Maybe if Arsenal didn't celebrate every goal from November onwards last season as if it was the 90th minute of the Champions League Final, they wouldn't have shit the bed when the business end came round. City have won titles with absolute ice in their veins. Our glorious team of 19/20 were the same- never phased, never bothered, never overly emotional.

I remember that 2019 Champions League final, how different it felt to Kiev the year before. We arrived a day later then the year before in the lead up to the game and absolutely exuded calm. We landed in Madrid nice and late, won the game and got the fuck back out again. No dramas, no nerves, mentality monsters all the way. Everyone, fanbase included, just seemed convinced we'd get the job done and that's how it worked out. Anfield will, I'm sure, be a cauldron in the run in especially with the news that Jurgen is in the midst of his last dance. But as a fanbase, I think it is important that we stay calm in games, believe in the team and not turn things too frantic. I genuinely believe it makes a difference.

City play tonight with the chance to put destiny back in their hands. On a good run of their own, it's a worrying proposition for the rest. But I for one absolutely believe in this team and this manager. We've beaten them before. We have quality all over the pitch, performances have really started to pick up and we have some crucial first team players arriving back in the squad right when we need them. We're the only other team in the league this last decade that have shown that we can also stick a run of 15 wins together. On paper, we have a fairly nice run of games to come.

Don't let yesterday bring you down. With this coach and this group of players, everything is still possible. Can we lift number 20 in May?
« Last Edit: February 5, 2024, 10:00:14 pm by alonsoisared »

Offline TheMightyReds

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #1 on: February 5, 2024, 05:04:55 pm »
Back in the saddle again. Liverpool are back chasing titles.  8)

We have on paper a decent last 15 fixtures. That’s 45 points to play for. Klopp and co will have done the maths and know it’ll take a 90pt season to be 100% sure of winning this. Of all the games left the key game that will be a six pointer is the Anfield encounter with Manchester City.

In our favour is that game being at home. Other positives we have is the sheer number of goals from all over.

ManUtd and Everton will be tricky. They'll want to spoil, but really we could do without this going to the last day.

Offline tubby

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #2 on: February 5, 2024, 05:07:36 pm »
ManUtd and Everton will be tricky. They'll want to spoil, but really we could do without this going to the last day.

Those two will be slogs, but not anywhere near as tough as City and Arsenal away.  There'll be little threat from both of them in comparison.
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #3 on: February 5, 2024, 05:12:00 pm »
The Man Utd and Everton away games worry me we have had some very underwhelming 1st half performances away from home and got away with it at times. Man city is strong favourites unfortunately they rarely make mistakes in the run in and once they smell blood and an opening they are completely ruthless the cheating c*nts.
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #4 on: February 5, 2024, 05:13:01 pm »
Back in the saddle again. Liverpool are back chasing titles.  8)

We have on paper a decent last 15 fixtures. That’s 45 points to play for. Klopp and co will have done the maths and know it’ll take a 90pt season to be 100% sure of winning this. Of all the games left the key game that will be a six pointer is the Anfield encounter with Manchester City.

In our favour is that game being at home. Other positives we have is the sheer number of goals from all over.

ManUtd and Everton will be tricky. They'll want to spoil, but really we could do without this going to the last day.

Ideally we want it done early doors but if you said to me now a win against Wolves wins us the title I’d shake your hand and say I’ll take that all day long.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #5 on: February 5, 2024, 05:14:09 pm »
The Man Utd and Everton away games worry me we have had some very underwhelming 1st half performances away from home and got away with it at times. Man city is strong favourites unfortunately they rarely make mistakes in the run in and once they smell blood and an opening they are completely ruthless the cheating c*nts.

City also have the luxury of knowing Utd and Everton in the past have downed tools against them so only really playing 36 games !!!

Online darragh85

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #6 on: February 5, 2024, 05:17:23 pm »
Title race ?

That ended yesterday despite the fact there is still 3 and a half months of football to be played and we are still on top.


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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #7 on: February 5, 2024, 05:18:39 pm »
Ps. Don't do it to yourselves. It's the hope that kills you.



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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #8 on: February 5, 2024, 05:27:25 pm »
One game at a time.

The only game that matters at the moment is Burnley (H)
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #9 on: February 5, 2024, 05:28:06 pm »
I think it's too early given that we have almost half of the season to go. Let's see where we are after the City game.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #10 on: February 5, 2024, 05:32:44 pm »
Three changes from the official website including the City game.

Liverpool v Manchester City: Sunday March 10 (3.45pm GMT kick-off)
Everton v Liverpool: Sunday March 17 (2pm GMT kick-off). This match will be postponed in the event of Emirates FA Cup quarter-final participation
Liverpool v Brighton & Hove Albion: Sunday March 31 (2pm BST kick-off)

All games live on Sky.
« Last Edit: February 5, 2024, 05:34:15 pm by jillcwhomever »
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Offline redk84

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #11 on: February 5, 2024, 05:38:07 pm »
We only have to win 15 in a row if City win all their remaining games, now they have currently won 7 in a row....they always do like a 10 game winning run at some point but will they really do what they've never done and win 22 in a row??

I don't think so.
Let's just see how it all unfolds, especially as European footy starts up again.

They will drop points more than once more i think, so will we...Arsenal definitely will.

I always count the "run-in" as the last 10 games of the season...I mean we're not far off but there's a lot of football yet to play.
City look ominous at the moment, Arsenal seem to be better recently in terms of results anyway....and we look good apart from the obvious shocker against Arsenal.

Who would have thought ay?

Top 4 outfit to title challengers for a while to top of the league and we have to win every fucking game ever!!!!!!!
Quite the season for this mostly new team.
Hope they can drown out the pressure and enjoy/learn from every moment until the end of this season
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #12 on: February 5, 2024, 06:00:00 pm »
when Man City win their 2 games in hand they'll be 1 point ahead of us for the run-in which is totally cool and not giving me PTSD at all
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #13 on: February 5, 2024, 06:20:38 pm »
Totally agree with one-game-at-a-time, especially with 15 games to play

Having said that - at least this year I think we can count on Everton to not lie down for City as the points are just too precious for them and Dyche won't allow it
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #14 on: February 5, 2024, 06:24:19 pm »
 We have 6 of next 10 at home, 3 of 4 aways vs bottom half…good string of matches for us to put points on the board!

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #15 on: February 5, 2024, 06:34:33 pm »
We have 6 of next 10 at home, 3 of 4 aways vs bottom half…good string of matches for us to put points on the board!

Is this just Premier League games are are you including the FA Cup game?
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #16 on: February 5, 2024, 06:46:50 pm »
Is this just Premier League games are are you including the FA Cup game?

PL only

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #18 on: February 5, 2024, 07:00:11 pm »
Always assumed that if we thought we could win a league title 90 points had to be our aim. If it isn't enough, so be it, but I think if we beat City and get to 90 it will be enough.

90 from here is 39 points. So 13 wins and 2 losses, or 12 wins, 3 draws and 0 losses. Hard but definitely not impossible. 


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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #19 on: February 5, 2024, 07:01:20 pm »
Bookies wise we’ll be favorite for every single remaining game

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #20 on: February 5, 2024, 07:07:47 pm »
All season we talked about not needing 90 points and the reality is that we probably will need 90 points.

For me is the Villa, Everton and United away games that will prove to be really tricky.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #21 on: February 5, 2024, 07:35:13 pm »
I'll go in to every one of those games believing and expecting that we will win
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Offline Air Jota

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #22 on: February 5, 2024, 07:38:48 pm »
One game at a time

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #23 on: February 5, 2024, 07:44:03 pm »
Need to remain calm.

In a good position and need to take one match at a time.
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #24 on: February 5, 2024, 07:44:43 pm »
All season we talked about not needing 90 points and the reality is that we probably will need 90 points.

For me is the Villa, Everton and United away games that will prove to be really tricky.
Agree, said the same yesterday. If we can win our home games and then the aways with Brentford, Fulham, Forest and West Ham- that’s 36 points, takes us to 87. 3 draws or 1 win from those three you mention would see us home. We’ve got no real away form against the better sides though so something will probably have to change.
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #25 on: February 5, 2024, 07:51:22 pm »
Europe could play a part too depending on who Teams play either side.

City and us have proved we can navigate it but can Arsenal ?
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #26 on: February 5, 2024, 07:59:19 pm »
Europe could play a part too depending on who Teams play either side.

City and us have proved we can navigate it but can Arsenal ?
We have more scope to rotate in the Europa League which is important.  City's squad is a bit thin for the run-in. I remember them struggling in 21/22. Last season was a stroll because Arsenal choked.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #27 on: February 5, 2024, 08:01:08 pm »
If we lose the title to Arsenal I'll be less upset than if we lose it to Abu Dhabi on the last day again. If that happens for a 3rd time I'm giving up club football.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #28 on: February 5, 2024, 08:05:01 pm »
If we lose the title to Arsenal I'll be less upset than if we lose it to Abu Dhabi on the last day again. If that happens for a 3rd time I'm giving up club football.
If we're in a position to "lose" it, it'll be to City.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #29 on: February 5, 2024, 08:06:00 pm »
Not worried about home games but the away games we need to start better. It's the third season now where we start games badly and look very vulnerable.I lost count of how many times we conceded big chances early and I don't understand why Klopp and the coaches failed to adress this issue.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #30 on: February 5, 2024, 09:28:17 pm »
Not worried about home games but the away games we need to start better. It's the third season now where we start games badly and look very vulnerable.I lost count of how many times we conceded big chances early and I don't understand why Klopp and the coaches failed to adress this issue.

Not being an arse but when did we last beat a really excellent side away from home?

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #31 on: February 5, 2024, 09:30:14 pm »
City, as ever, are favourites. I wouldn’t be surprised if they won every game until the end of the season. But the run of games we have is favourable for once - especially if we can actually go and get a result at Goodison and OT.

Brentford away is one that sticks out as a real banana skin too.

Think Arsenal have too many tough aways to take it over the line.
« Last Edit: February 5, 2024, 09:37:50 pm by bornandbRED »

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #32 on: February 5, 2024, 09:41:54 pm »
Not being an arse but when did we last beat a really excellent side away from home?

If we're talking PL and top 6.  Last away win:
-Arsenal:  2021/22 (0-2 with Bobby and Jota on the scoresheet)
-City:  2015/16 (I think it's the 1-4.  We've gotten them in the CL and the FA Cup on neutral but that was the last away PL win.  And it was pre-Pep I believe).
-United:  2021/22 (0-5.  Enough said)
-Spurs:  2022/23  (1-2 with Conte under pressure)
-Chelsea:  2020/21  (0-2 in Thiago's debut)

We beat Brighton away in the run-in in 2022.  We've won at Newcastle and West Ham in the past calendar year.

Chelsea away has been frustrating in the last few years.  City away is at best a point (which we've gotten a few times against Pep, including this year).  This Arsenal side is better than the 2021/22 side that nullified us for 55-60 minutes before they tired and we put them away with ease.

United, Everton, West Ham, and Villa aways will be difficult for various reasons.  So far this year, we've gotten a point away to City and Chelsea.  None against Spurs (although that's officiating-driven) and Arsenal.  One point away to Brighton.  Three points away to Newcastle.

Our away record is not definitely not at the level of our previous title contending teams, but we've gotten through a lot of the tough ones already.
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #33 on: February 5, 2024, 09:46:13 pm »
We're 2nd to city in away form.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #34 on: February 5, 2024, 09:46:33 pm »
Not suprised in the slightest they win tonight. One thing that’s certain, is that this City team is not as strong as last year and this season will not be a 100 point season. Still lots of points to win and drop by all teams as far as I’m concerned. Win Saturday and regain any lost confidence from Sunday is the only focus at the moment.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #35 on: February 5, 2024, 09:49:40 pm »
If we beat City at ours I think it's ours.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #36 on: February 5, 2024, 09:57:03 pm »
We're 2nd to city in away form.

The majority of our games are at home anyway.
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #37 on: February 5, 2024, 09:57:56 pm »
The majority of our games are at home anyway.

We have 15 games left in the PL.

7 at home and 8 away.
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #38 on: February 5, 2024, 09:59:11 pm »
We have 15 games left in the PL.

7 at home and 8 away.

That’s not right - other way round.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #39 on: February 5, 2024, 09:59:36 pm »
We have 15 games left in the PL.

7 at home and 8 away.

Well apart from those 8 the majority are at home  ;D