Topic: Copa del Rey 2013. Real v Atletico (tonight 8:30)

[Agger]

Lopez hasn't really deserved dropping in fairness.

He's been good but Casillas is probably the finest goalkeeper of the 21st century and a club legend. Doesn't deserve this kind of treatment.

[loozy]

An unpleasant cocktail of perennial self-victimisation, retialatory petulant aggression, and detached self-rightousness: Mourinho's Madrid.

Especially during the Clasicos. Bunch of thugs, the lot of them, Arbeloa and Xabi included.

[jackh]

Especially during the Clasicos. Bunch of thugs, the lot of them, Arbeloa and Xabi included.

Yep, it's been very disappointing to observe.

I can see both being axed depending upon who comes in - right-back might be a position that the new manager wants to improve and Alonso might just be one of the big personalities sacrificed to make a power statement (as you can be sure that Casillas, Ramos, and Ronaldo certainly won't be touched).

Though player/quality comparison is obviously way off, I think there'd be too much of a touch of the Robbie Keane's about us making a play for Xabi's sentimental return.  Arbeloa, on the other hand, I'd take in a heartbeat - price/quality/versatility too much to overlook.

[rushyman]

Especially during the Clasicos. Bunch of thugs, the lot of them, Arbeloa and Xabi included.

Harsh. Only one of them thats been dignified

[loozy]

Harsh. Only one of them thats been dignified

I remember him repeatedly kicking Xavi into the Achilles' heel because that's his sore spot. Not very classy and I hated to see that side of him as for me he is one of the most elegant players at the moment.

[jackh]

Harsh. Only one of them thats been dignified

I've a lot of respect for Xabi but he's been infected by the snide Mourinho slide just like the rest of them.  Madrid, as a club on the whole, have just been horrible during this last three years.

[Armand9]

A Chelsea's fan view:

"Come home Jose, you don't need all that Madrid sh*t, animals the lot of 'em."


Stupid c*nt, this IS eye-gouger's Madrid - animals, he's the fucker who turned these players into total shithouses for the classicos cos he couldn't see any other way to win after Barca spanked them silly. And when they're desperate, when things don't go their way, this is what they revert to.

Imagine all that talent, all that money spent, and twatface's approach was 'fuck that, just take em out, step on their achilles, kick em all over the park.'

And to put the icing on the fucking cake - who was the c*nt that walked up to an opposition coach and snidely gouged his fucking eye, premeditated cuntish behaviour of the highest order, that's the worst conduct I've seen from any manager ever. (oh, there was that italian coach that slugged his own player  , eye gouging, tho, that's worse)

[loozy]

Yep, it's been very disappointing to observe.

I can see both being axed depending upon who comes in - right-back might be a position that the new manager wants to improve and Alonso might just be one of the big personalities sacrificed to make a power statement (as you can be sure that Casillas, Ramos, and Ronaldo certainly won't be touched).

Though player/quality comparison is obviously way off, I think there'd be too much of a touch of the Robbie Keane's about us making a play for Xabi's sentimental return.  Arbeloa, on the other hand, I'd take in a heartbeat - price/quality/versatility too much to overlook.

Arbeloa's been in a tenuous position for quite a while now, so he'll be a victim to either a new signing or a cantera coming up through the ranks. I'm not so sure about Xabi being a victim of personality, I think they'll first get rid of Higuain or Carvalho before touching the big ones.

I'd love both of them to return (and take Masche with you, while at it) but it's not gonna happen.

[rushyman]

I've a lot of respect for Xabi but he's been infected by the snide Mourinho slide just like the rest of them.  Madrid, as a club on the whole, have just been horrible during this last three years.

True. Theyre absolutely vile

[Armand9]

I've a lot of respect for Xabi but he's been infected by the snide Mourinho slide just like the rest of them.  Madrid, as a club on the whole, have just been horrible during this last three years.

Spot on there, can't aruge with that.

[loozy]

True. Theyre absolutely vile

That's somehing I've always marvelled at (and not in a good way): when playing for Spain, Ramos, Xabi, Arbeloa behave like sound and good players and when playing for Madrid, they are a bunch of twatty thugs. Is there something in the Real-water or was it purely just Mou' insane mind-fuckery?

[rushyman]

That's somehing I've always marvelled at (and not in a good way): when playing for Spain, Ramos, Xabi, Arbeloa behave like sound and good players and when playing for Madrid, they are a bunch of twatty thugs. Is there something in the Real-water or was it purely just Mou' insane mind-fuckery?

Dunno about Ramos. That boy is one serious bellend full stop

[Armand9]

That's somehing I've always marvelled at (and not in a good way): when playing for Spain, Ramos, Xabi, Arbeloa behave like sound and good players and when playing for Madrid, they are a bunch of twatty thugs. Is there something in the Real-water or was it purely just Mou' insane mind-fuckery?

It's that c*nt, from the moment he walked in there and knew they couldn't yet compete with Barca

Dunno about Ramos. That boy is one serious bellend full stop

Yeah, he had a headstart but even he got worse but then again, with a manager like that, he must have thought it was xmas, first shag and birthday rolled into one - go kick em son!

[jackh]

Arbeloa's been in a tenuous position for quite a while now, so he'll be a victim to either a new signing or a cantera coming up through the ranks. I'm not so sure about Xabi being a victim of personality, I think they'll first get rid of Higuain or Carvalho before touching the big ones.

I'd love both of them to return (and take Masche with you, while at it) but it's not gonna happen.

That's exactly the reason I think that replacing Xabi would be the perfect statement by a new man - Casillas and Ramos have the hearts of the fans, and Ronaldo's their generation-defining asset.  Xabi's the sacrifice any egotistical manager would make to put his stamp in the side - the likes of Huguain, Benzema, Ozil, Marcelo, Carvalho are small chips by comparison...you sell Xabi, make a statement signing in the middle of the pitch (they'll have identified Gundogan but won't get him), and there's your mark on the team.

I love Xabi and these posts aren't some sort of attack on him (I'd love for there to be a way for him to return to Anfield to be honest!) but I just think that a new manager's statement would be at his expense.

[jackh]

That's somehing I've always marvelled at (and not in a good way): when playing for Spain, Ramos, Xabi, Arbeloa behave like sound and good players and when playing for Madrid, they are a bunch of twatty thugs. Is there something in the Real-water or was it purely just Mou' insane mind-fuckery?

The reality probably is that the players are so good that, even if an underpinning of animosity exists (which I'm not actually convinced it does), they'd be the second best international team in the world even performing at a disgruntled 80%.  As it happens, I think they're all big boys and what goes on in El Classico stays in El Classico anyway.

[RedInside]

Glad I watched this, Real is always entertaining when things dont go their way

[jackh]

Glad I watched this, Real is always entertaining when things dont go their way

The inevitability of some self-important bitter wankery is up there with the old Chelsea/Arsenal fueds of the early 2000s.

[sminp]

I came in to post about how disgusting I thought Real were bit it seems I'd just be preaching to the choir. Can't stand them or their dickhead fans. They're like a Spanish stoke or millwall at times but with even less of a reason to behave like that because they have money and talented players

[FresnoBee]

Why all the vile hate? He's just a football coach, with a foreign team that we don't compete.

[jackh]

Why all the vile hate? He's just a football coach, with a foreign team that we don't compete.

We're only allowed to pass opinion on those we compete with, but not football coaches, on RAWK?


*edit:
He's not just a football coach, either, and it's not got anything to do with Liverpool Football Club nor the fact that it's Liverpool Football Club that bring us together to exchange opinion on RAWK.

It's that he's a vile, intrinsic, self-centred c*** who'll stop at nothing to promote and further himself at the expense of all and anything around round him...and it's that that's representative of far too many in the world today...a frightening self-absorbtion coupled with a disregard of the collateral damage caused.

He's an iconic figure and that's not a good thing.

[FresnoBee]

I'm not questioning people giving out opinion, but just the strong hate for a person that barely related to the club, or most people's life in here.

But carry on.

[jackh]

I'm not questioning people giving out opinion, but just the strong hate for a person that barely related to the club, or most people's life in here.

But carry on.

Mourinho as an individual seems pretty irrelevant to me.  It's not as if I'm worried about him coming over to the Premier League and stealing our league title next season or anything (nor a 4th spot!).

It's just what he stands for and represents.  It's pervasive.

[Hij]

I'm not questioning people giving out opinion, but just the strong hate for a person that barely related to the club, or most people's life in here.

But carry on.

Barely related?

Were you in a coma when we were up against him? Horrible arrogant gobshite (him not you)

[macca888]

And goes out on the back door

Now just because he takes care of his skin, is well groomed and wears the finest attire, there's no need to stereotype the man.

[macca888]

Spot on there, can't aruge with that.

Is that you John Fashanu?

[Hij]

Besides, Jose won't think twice about giving it out. So he can take it, he'll probably never even read this thread. It's football, normal rules of the world do not apply. Do you take the same stance when someone mentions something down the pub?

[jackh]

Besides, Jose won't think twice about giving it out. So he can take it, he'll probably never even read this thread. It's football, normal rules of the world do not apply. Do you take the same stance when someone mentions something down the pub?

Can I just say, by way of disclaimer for my many comments this evening, that I most definitely do would the same stance - I'd have been all fists on tables, spilled pints, and slurred words had I had the pleasure of being in a pub this evening 

...and the language offered for Jose would have been far worse!

[StrikingMidfield]

Some of the saves made by Courtois were out of this world, and I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't thinking about him possibly replacing Reina. Not really likely right now, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the PL soon and I'd love for him to be playing with us.

[jackh]

Some of the saves made by Courtois were out of this world, and I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't thinking about him possibly replacing Reina. Not really likely right now, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the PL soon and I'd love for him to be playing with us.

He's already owned by Chelsea.

But yes, an outstanding performance (I joked to my Dad, "almost Jerzy-like!").  When the dust settles, the Final is going to be reflected upon as a massive, massive result - his performance has ensured himself a key place in their history.

I guess the question is, are Chelsea ready for him?  If not, does he have time to wait?  It's a crossroads that we're probably at, too.

(Nice one for getting the thread back on track, by the way - let's keep Mourinho/Madrid in general elsewhere)

[Xxavi]

I had a very strong headache due to lack of sleep, so I didn't watch the game. But I am delighted after reading the reports and watching the highlights. Mourinho's ideas seem to be centered about motivation and emotions. That's why his players, even those you don't expect to be that way, act like dickheads.

Emotional drainage. From both him and his squad. It's understandable if it was years of winning trophy after trophy, but by his third year, it is not there any more. Glad that his exit from Spain is the way it is. And the worst treatment he is getting from is from Madrid players, press and fans

[Armand9]

I'm not questioning people giving out opinion, but just the strong hate for a person that barely related to the club, or most people's life in here.

But carry on.

I've called Hitler a c*nt many times and I didn't even live in the same time period. A c*nt's a c*nt and eye-gouger is a worthy recipient of such an accolade.

I had a very strong headache due to lack of sleep, so I didn't watch the game. But I am delighted after reading the reports and watching the highlights. Mourinho's ideas seem to be centered about motivation and emotions. That's why his players, even those you don't expect to be that way, act like dickheads.

He's all about siege mentality, mate, it works for a time but it's not easy to keep that shit up but in turning his team into shithouses to put Barca off their game when he first went there, it's become ingrained and that's what they revert to when things go tits up. Like tonite.

[jackh]

I had a very strong headache due to lack of sleep, so I didn't watch the game. But I am delighted after reading the reports and watching the highlights. Mourinho's ideas seem to be centered about motivation and emotions. That's why his players, even those you don't expect to be that way, act like dickheads.

Emotional drainage. From both him and his squad. It's understandable if it was years of winning trophy after trophy, but by his third year, it is not there any more. Glad that his exit from Spain is the way it is. And the worst treatment he is getting from is from Madrid players, press and fans

From that angle, perhaps he's just misunderstood by those of us who think we know better - maybe we truly should celebrate him for what he is?

He's a man who clubs sign up to throw a bit of cash at and expect immediate success...his high-intensity, clan-warfare, mentality gets players onside and victory is achieved through a combination of quality and mentality.  His teams then burn-out and he inevitably outstays his welcome.

But he brings success.  So should be commended for doing the job expected of him.

He's efficient...but he's neither nice nor versatile.

[StrikingMidfield]

He's already owned by Chelsea.

But yes, an outstanding performance (I joked to my Dad, "almost Jerzy-like!").  When the dust settles, the Final is going to be reflected upon as a massive, massive result - his performance has ensured himself a key place in their history.

I guess the question is, are Chelsea ready for him?  If not, does he have time to wait?  It's a crossroads that we're probably at, too.

(Nice one for getting the thread back on track, by the way - let's keep Mourinho/Madrid in general elsewhere)

Really? Wow wasn't aware of that, guess I must have missed it. Well anyway, Chelsea have a supreme talent on their hands and I'll be looking to watch a few Atletico games just to keep an eye on this lad. Honestly looking forward to seeing him in the PL, even if it's as a Chelsea player.

[Xxavi]

From that angle, perhaps he's just misunderstood by those of us who think we know better - maybe we truly should celebrate him for what he is?

He's a man who clubs sign up to throw a bit of cash at and expect immediate success...his high-intensity, clan-warfare, mentality gets players onside and victory is achieved through a combination of quality and mentality.  His teams then burn-out and he inevitably outstays his welcome.

But he brings success.  So should be commended for doing the job expected of him.

He's efficient...but he's neither nice nor versatile.

I tell you what, despite how much he is loved by Chelsea fans, I don't give him more than 3-4 years there. Is it necessary to be an ass to bring a short term success? Looking at his record, you say it works. But there are tons of other examples when Real Madrid had very productive coaches who had a bit more class. In fact, they had a lot of them.

Somehow it is concluded by some (most Mourinho's personal fans) that this is the only working method. I disagree, look around, plenty of teams had coaches/managers winning trophies, more trophies than Mourinho, in their first 2-3 years. Just because they are a bit quite and don't keep announcing it's because they are special that they are winning, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. When Del Bosque won, it was deemed that he won because of the quality of players, and even a monkey can manage them. The same with Pep's Barca (some still claim that). Ancelotti won the league with Chelsea, but some (including Roman himself) thought it's due to Abramovich's money. Tons and tons of examples.

[jackh]

I tell you what, despite how much he is loved by Chelsea fans, I don't give him more than 3-4 years there. Is it necessary to be an ass to bring a short term success? Looking at his record, you say it works. But there are tons of other examples when Real Madrid had very productive coaches who had a bit more class. In fact, they had a lot of them.

Somehow it is concluded by some (most Mourinho's personal fans) that this is the only working method. I disagree, look around, plenty of teams had coaches/managers winning trophies, more trophies than Mourinho, in their first 2-3 years. Just because they are a bit quite and don't keep announcing it's because they are special that they are winning, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. When Del Bosque won, it was deemed that he won because of the quality of players, and even a monkey can manage them. The same with Pep's Barca (some still claim that). Ancelotti won the league with Chelsea, but some (including Roman himself) thought it's due to Abramovich's money. Tons and tons of examples.

Oh by no means do I think that his is the only route to success...not at all.  I do think his approach has worked, that you can't really argue with his success, and that he will bring success to Chelsea (and he will need to put his own stamp on them despite their wealth of talent at the moment).

You might have missed my broader view on Mourinho, tonight - you picked out the post in which I made miniscule begrudging concessions!

[Xxavi]

Oh by no means do I think that his is the only route to success...not at all.  I do think his approach has worked, that you can't really argue with his success, and that he will bring success to Chelsea (and he will need to put his own stamp on them despite their wealth of talent at the moment).

You might have missed my broader view on Mourinho, tonight - you picked out the post in which I made miniscule begrudging concessions!

No, not saying you did. But when discussing Mourinho, his success and trophy haul is brought up a lot. I guess it makes sense, but it is as if people are using it as an excuse "but it works". I am putting my thoughts on here about that kind of logic, not to say you have that.

Barca, for example, want their coach to install an attacking game. And a certain level of etiquette is required. Heck, you could argue it is required everywhere. How many times we have seen football pundits, commentators, even managers and directors get a sack for one wrong comment. ONE! ManCity director was sacked, wasn't he? Andy Gray? But with Mourinho, he has a lot of those disrespectful comments, his lack of manners is on a whole different level to whatever has been displayed by any of those that are sacked. Yet, it is accepted. Doesn't make sense to me.

Trophies aren't excuse for anything. For dreadful football (like Di Matteo's last season or Mourinho's, well, always), dreadful behavior (Mourinho) etc.

[jackh]

No, not saying you did. But when discussing Mourinho, his success and trophy haul is brought up a lot. I guess it makes sense, but it is as if people are using it as an excuse "but it works". I am putting my thoughts on here about that kind of logic, not to say you have that.

Barca, for example, want their coach to install an attacking game. And a certain level of etiquette is required. Heck, you could argue it is required everywhere. How many times we have seen football pundits, commentators, even managers and directors get a sack for one wrong comment. ONE! ManCity director was sacked, wasn't he? Andy Gray? But with Mourinho, he has a lot of those disrespectful comments, his lack of manners is on a whole different level to whatever has been displayed by any of those that are sacked. Yet, it is accepted. Doesn't make sense to me.

Trophies aren't excuse for anything. For dreadful football (like Di Matteo's last season or Mourinho's, well, always), dreadful behavior (Mourinho) etc.

It has done, thus far.  Just look at his last ten years.

As much as I dislike him, comparisons with Andy Gray's comments seem somewhat wide of the mark.  He's a dispicable character but in a more abstract and intangible way than that which Gray, through his comments, positioned himself to be.

And are you talking about Gary Cook, re:City?  Way off, if so.

Mourinho might not have great manners but Gray and Cook's comments had nothing to do with manners.

[The 1989 Brit Awards]

Sime-one > Special One

[J_Kopite]

ATLEEEEEEEEEEEETI, ATLEEEEEEEEEEEEEETI

[Xxavi]

jackh

We will agree to disagree. Mourinho may have been calculating in his excesses and has managed to avoid descriptions of genders and races, but it doesn't make him any less c*nt than the other two. They may be good people in fact, Andy Gray and Cook or whatever. I cannot judge them based on a freakish mistake, a possible mistake.

It's like the total witchhunt against Aragones, that he is racist and this and that based on the fact that he said "negro" talking about Henry. "negro" means black in Spanish, and whilst Aragones may be a racist devil, I am not sure if that is enough to make a judgment. Similar to Suarez really, in a way. Are you sure, for example, that Suarez is racist? I am not sure.

With Mourinho, it is clear what and who he is. There is no mistake here.