Topic: Plans to Introduce a Plastic Bottle Deposit Scheme

[clinical]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-43563164

I for one think this is a brilliant idea. I have seen it in both Germany and Canada.

Not only does it reduce plastic waste which is good for everything. It allow the homeless to actually earn a bit of money collecting plastic bottles they find (just wait till the Tories take any benefits away).

Can't believe it's taken this long for us to introduce something like this.

The negatives I heard is what about old people who can't go to return the bottles etc. Well hang on someone managed to go to the supermarket to get the bottle in the first place so they can easily return it. And if the shopping was delivered surely they can come up with a return on the delivery lorry next time it comes. Similar to what Ocado do with plastic bags.

Anyway very happy this decision has been made, absolutely sick of seeing people just throwing bottles on the floor. 

[CraigDS]

Is this going to mean an end to the convenient curbside recycling? Bit of a pain in the ass if so.

[Statto Red]

I hate the idea, those on low income will be hit as usual, might not be able to afford the extra cost of the drinks in the first place, regardless of whether they'll get cash back.

[clinical]

Is this going to mean an end to the convenient curbside recycling? Bit of a pain in the ass if so.

You'd assume so other than for cardboard and paper which I think will stay as is.

Pain in the ass, most definitely, but it's about time people went to a bit more of an effort to look after the environment.

I had the displeasure of driving through Birmingham the other day. What a shit hole it is. And it's down to all the litter in the streets, I've never seen anything like it. It's about time things like this were brought in to combat that.

[clinical]

I hate the idea, those on low income will be hit as usual, might not be able to afford the extra cost of the drinks in the first place, regardless of whether they'll get cash back.

Don't believe that. It will literally be pennys, of which they will get back. How many bottles do they want to buy at once as that's where the issue will come.

[Alf]

The places where people return these to must be accessible to all.

[clinical]

The places where people return these to must be accessible to all.

Definitely agree with that.

[BarryCrocker]

I hate the idea, those on low income will be hit as usual, might not be able to afford the extra cost of the drinks in the first place, regardless of whether they'll get cash back.

We introduced a very similar scheme for aluminium/plastic/glads in NSW (Aus) recently. It's been poorly executed when launched by the government/contractors but a great plan once it becomes more ingrained into our culture. My 10 year old nephew collected all the bottles from our bbq last Sunday as he's saving up for a surfboard.

As for the impact on low income people being hit the most. It's actually the poorest people in the world being impacted by plastic waste. Things need to change, just like the plastic bag ban in Ireland, people need to adapt to change.

[killer-heels]

I hate the idea, those on low income will be hit as usual, might not be able to afford the extra cost of the drinks in the first place, regardless of whether they'll get cash back.

The libertarian and free market argument against all taxes.

[clinical]

We introduced a very similar scheme for aluminium/plastic/glads in NSW (Aus) recently. It's been poorly executed when launched by the government/contractors but a great plan once it becomes more ingrained into our culture. My 10 year old nephew collected all the bottles from our bbq last Sunday as he's saving up for a surfboard.

As for the impact on low income people being hit the most. It's actually the poorest people in the world being impacted by plastic waste. Things need to change, just like the plastic bag ban in Ireland, people need to adapt to change.

It's not having a go at anyone because it's natural thing but the first response I got was it's going to be a pain in the ass which let's be honest is going to be a lot of people's issue with it.

There are other issues, as have been mentioned, that have to be thought about too of course. But I have definitely noticed the litter issue getting worse wherever you go and it's not just here in the UK but overseas too, who also need to change.

It's certainly a step in the right direct.

[CheshireDave]

Would need to know more details on how this is going to work before making judgement.

Would you need to return the bottle or can to the place where you bought it from? Is this going to just be supermarkets? or all shops? What happens if throughout the week I bought a few of bottles from Tesco each day and then rocked up at my local newsagents with 20 bottles. They would need to pay me my deposit back?

[So… Howard Philips]

It's not having a go at anyone because it's natural thing but the first response I got was it's going to be a pain in the ass which let's be honest is going to be a lot of people's issue with it.

There are other issues, as have been mentioned, that have to be thought about too of course. But I have definitely noticed the litter issue getting worse wherever you go and it's not just here in the UK but overseas too, who also need to change.

It's certainly a step in the right direct.

If you drive anywhere in the UK during the winter months the hedges etc. are festooned with ribbons of plastic. Summer comes, leaves bloom, the plastic disappears until autumn and then they reappear.

[Millie]

Those over a certain age will remember we used to do this with glass bottles.

[The Gulleysucker]

Those over a certain age will remember we used to do this with glass bottles.

It was something like 3d for a Corona bottle wasn't it?

I do remember as a kid when we would wander around the estate, and if we found an empty lying around, would always check to see if it was a returnable and if so, straight to the newsagents and do an exchange for sweets.

[Craig S]

Would need to know more details on how this is going to work before making judgement.

Would you need to return the bottle or can to the place where you bought it from? Is this going to just be supermarkets? or all shops? What happens if throughout the week I bought a few of bottles from Tesco each day and then rocked up at my local newsagents with 20 bottles. They would need to pay me my deposit back?

If its the same as Germany you return the bottles to any supermarket or any machine, doesn't matter where you bought it. It's a national scheme. 330ml plastic bottles were €0.25 deposit. They also have it on glass bottles, but don't think that is being suggested for UK.

It was incredible easy and kids used to love feeding the bottles into the automated machines. Some big kids did too, especially as it counted up how many beers I had drunk in the last week  .

I bought a 6 pack of beer once in Germany and the Pfand (deposit) of the bottles cost more than the beer. That was more to do with how cheap beer in Germany is, than the cost of deposit.

[clinical]

If its the same as Germany you return the bottles to any supermarket or any machine, doesn't matter where you bought it. It's a national scheme. 330ml plastic bottles were €0.25 deposit. They also have it on glass bottles, but don't think that is being suggested for UK.

It was incredible easy and kids used to love feeding the bottles into the automated machines. Some big kids did too, especially as it counted up how many beers I had drunk in the last week  .

I bought a 6 pack of beer once in Germany and the Pfand (deposit) of the bottles cost more than the beer. That was more to do with how cheap beer in Germany is, than the cost of deposit.

It is, glass bottles even tins etc.

It was something like 3d for a Corona bottle wasn't it?

I do remember as a kid when we would wander around the estate, and if we found an empty lying around, would always check to see if it was a returnable and if so, straight to the newsagents and do an exchange for sweets.

Even get kids cleaning the streets  how can people say this is a step backwards? In terms of people who i see just throw rubbish on the ground kids are the worst. Hopefully this may educate them.

[SP]

It was something like 3d for a Corona bottle wasn't it?

I do remember as a kid when we would wander around the estate, and if we found an empty lying around, would always check to see if it was a returnable and if so, straight to the newsagents and do an exchange for sweets.

I am post-decimalisation. No Corona deliveries where I lived, but 10p deposit at my Grandma's and I got to keep it. And 10p was a fortune in those days.

They used to have a wine bottle scheme in France where the bottles were marked with stars. 1 franc deposit. Another earner, my parents drank the wine, we profited from the empties, every one was happy.

Googling, they are looking to being it back:
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Government-seeks-return-to-old-consigne-recycling

[CheshireDave]

If its the same as Germany you return the bottles to any supermarket or any machine, doesn't matter where you bought it. It's a national scheme. 330ml plastic bottles were €0.25 deposit. They also have it on glass bottles, but don't think that is being suggested for UK.

It was incredible easy and kids used to love feeding the bottles into the automated machines. Some big kids did too, especially as it counted up how many beers I had drunk in the last week  .

I bought a 6 pack of beer once in Germany and the Pfand (deposit) of the bottles cost more than the beer. That was more to do with how cheap beer in Germany is, than the cost of deposit.

Yeah I remember seeing a similar system in Finland years ago. From what I gathered people fed bottles into a machine and the machine printed a little receipt which could be used against their bill in the shop.

Fine if it is all automated and there are enough machines for the public to access. I just thought I am sure there is going to be a few disgruntled smaller shop keepers who would be forced to deal with and store (albeit temporarily) empty bottles which were not even purchased in their shop.

[SP]

Yeah I remember seeing a similar system in Finland years ago. From what I gathered people fed bottles into a machine and the machine printed a little receipt which could be used against their bill in the shop.

Fine if it is all automated and there are enough machines for the public to access. I just thought I am sure there is going to be a few disgruntled smaller shop keepers who would be forced to deal with and store (albeit temporarily) empty bottles which were not even purchased in their shop.

For shops below a certain size, pay them commission. Most Arkwrights get more enthusiastic when it turns a profit for them.

[Craig S]

It is, glass bottles even tins etc.

Oh good. Hopefully, it becomes more like Germany where Pfand is just part of everyday life. At gigs, football matches, even in some bars/beer gardens it makes a difference with less shite everywhere.

[clinical]

Oh good. Hopefully, it becomes more like Germany where Pfand is just part of everyday life. At gigs, football matches, even in some bars/beer gardens it makes a difference with less shite everywhere.

They have actually started this at rugby matches with the plastic cups. Works well. But yeah once people adjust to it, it will be fine.

I don't get the argument people on lower income won't be able to afford it. How much are they ever going to be out of pocket? Say it's 20p a bottle. How many bottles would they have at any one time. Say 25. That's £5 which they know if they needed they could get back. It's just an easy argument to use against the idea.

People hate change. It's proven to work in other countries and it will here, there maybe some issues to iron out but we can learn from others.

People may actually start getting a reusable water bottle instead of buying a new bottle each time as well. 

[CheshireDave]

For shops below a certain size, pay them commission. Most Arkwrights get more enthusiastic when it turns a profit for them.

True. I just curious about the logistics of it all. I imagine the machines are quite large. Too large for some smaller shops. So will smaller shops be able to sell you a bottle with an additional charge but not let you get the deposit back from the same shop?

And will you get the cash back? or vouchers to spend at the shop? People might be pissed off if it's the latter as you're giving them cash and getting back store credit in return.

[The Gulleysucker]

3d was a tidy sum.

I just about remember the hoohaa when Blackjacks went up in price from 8 for 1d to only four for 1d, though you could still get a small pack of chewing or bubble gum for 1d.

Inflation eh!

[rob1966]

You'd assume so other than for cardboard and paper which I think will stay as is.

Pain in the ass, most definitely, but it's about time people went to a bit more of an effort to look after the environment.

I had the displeasure of driving through Birmingham the other day. What a shit hole it is. And it's down to all the litter in the streets, I've never seen anything like it. It's about time things like this were brought in to combat that.

Sorry, but this is nothing but a stealth tax.

We recycle everything we can, our blue paper and can/bottle black bin is full at each collection. From now on, I will have to load all the cans into my car and then drive a 5 mile return journey, to go to the Asda to get my deposits back, and the council will send a HGV bin wagon around to collect an empty bin. You then need to run vans to deliver the money that goes into the machines to pay us back and add extra HGV's to go and collect the recycle bins from the Supermarkets. How is this helping the enviroment exactly? Meanwhile, the scruffy c*nts who throw the bottles, KFC, McNastys shite in the street will still continue to throw the bottles in the street. Fuck me, the c*nts can't walk 10 feet from the car to use the bin at the drive through.

Millions of people already recycle, recycling is not the issue. One of the contracts Stobart has, is to collect the alloy ingots from Novelis in Latchford and take it to the train at Widnes, I've done this run a few times. The factory produces a constant stream of 26t aluminium blocks, each one created from 2.5 million alloy cans that have been recycled. On an average Saturday when I've done it, we run 4 trucks and between us we do 5 runs, so take 500T of aluminium to the rail depot. These ingots then go to Germany for use in making cars etc.

The focus needs to be on those who litter, but that cannot be Policed, because the Tory c*nts have cut 19,000 officers.

Go look in the grass verges next to a road, you will be horrified at the shite you will find in there. The Mersey by ours is full of plastic from scruffy Manc c*nts who throw it in the river.

[thejbs]

About bloody time. I hope it's around 15p per bottle.

My neighbour, a single, mobile woman who lives on her own puts out two black bins every fortnight and no kerbside boxes ever. I would love to say something to her. By comparison, our black bin is never more than half full over a fortnight. It just takes a tiny bit of effort.

As for the poor bring hit, some kids will see this as an opportunity to earn a little extra cash by picking up litter or not discarding their own.

[Zeb]

I'm ok with this. Dave's made a good point there on making sure money can be got back, even if voucher is initial thing given in return. Belgium had that when I lived there. The pop man used to give cash back if you wanted, didn't he?

Slight price rise but matched by incentive to take things back. I think that's ok. We need to do something. The plastic bag tax has been a good thing, in my opinion, and this is in same sort of thinking.

My major problem with recycling is that there just isn't room to store it in a small flat with very limited outdoor facilities for recycling (a couple of bins for 30 apartments fill pdq). Having it at local shops for much of the waste would be useful.

[redbyrdz]

The machines in Germany read the barcode and then crush the plastic bottles and metal cans, so they take up less space. The only real pain is when the bottle or the barcode is damaged, because then it refuses to take the bottle. You get a recipt that you can cash in at the till.


People tend to bring the bottles to the big shops that have machines to return them, so I don't think the small shops will end up with lots of empties to store.


I don't know if I'd call that an advantage of the system, but yes, when you can't be arsed returning a bottle, you usually just leave it next to a bin and someone else (probably a homeless or poor person) will pick it up and return it for the deposit.

[clinical]

Sorry, but this is nothing but a stealth tax.

We recycle everything we can, our blue paper and can/bottle black bin is full at each collection. From now on, I will have to load all the cans into my car and then drive a 5 mile return journey, to go to the Asda to get my deposits back, and the council will send a HGV bin wagon around to collect an empty bin. You then need to run vans to deliver the money that goes into the machines to pay us back and add extra HGV's to go and collect the recycle bins from the Supermarkets. How is this helping the enviroment exactly? Meanwhile, the scruffy c*nts who throw the bottles, KFC, McNastys shite in the street will still continue to throw the bottles in the street. Fuck me, the c*nts can't walk 10 feet from the car to use the bin at the drive through.

Millions of people already recycle, recycling is not the issue. One of the contracts Stobart has, is to collect the alloy ingots from Novelis in Latchford and take it to the train at Widnes, I've done this run a few times. The factory produces a constant stream of 26t aluminium blocks, each one created from 2.5 million alloy cans that have been recycled. On an average Saturday when I've done it, we run 4 trucks and between us we do 5 runs, so take 500T of aluminium to the rail depot. These ingots then go to Germany for use in making cars etc.

The focus needs to be on those who litter, but that cannot be Policed, because the Tory c*nts have cut 19,000 officers.

Go look in the grass verges next to a road, you will be horrified at the shite you will find in there. The Mersey by ours is full of plastic from scruffy Manc c*nts who throw it in the river.

I can't agree with some of this,

firstly you say you have to drive 5 miles to get deposits back? Surely you will be driving 5 miles to go to the shop to buy food at some point anyway?

Secondly the council can actually reduce the number of times the HGV's are sent round to houses as the bins will take longer to fill instead take them to the shops. So no net money lost or extra impact on the environment.

Agree about the people who litter from KFC and the like. This isn't going to cure the problem but it's a start and will definitely help. I've seen kids literally throw rubbish into a hedge when there was a bin the otherside of them. Now for that I blame the parents and lack of education.

But as thejibs said you see people who don't bother to recycle at all and it pisses me off. This will stop that.

There's so much to moan about in this country with what's happening but something like this that will only have an overall benefit is not one of them.

[redbyrdz]

Its different from recycling at home. Recycling doesn't prevent littering, getting money back for a bottle does. Obviously there's lazy people everywhere, but once people get it in their head that they're literally throwing money away, they do it a lot less.

[clinical]

Its different from recycling at home. Recycling doesn't prevent littering, getting money back for a bottle does. Obviously there's lazy people everywhere, but once people get it in their head that they're literally throwing money away, they do it a lot less.

Exactly.

[kellan]

People in my house can't even be bothered to put the recyclable stuff in the correct kitchen bin. Our two bins are right next to each other but still they put stuff in whichever takes their fancy. No doubt the country is full of millions just like them. So if dropping something in a different bin five inches to the left instead is too much effort people certainly aren't going to be walking all the way back to a shop with their empties. Not even for the pence they would get in exchange.

And if this scheme comes in place of the curb collections I imagine many will just go back to putting their recyclable rubbish in with their general bin. We just don't live in the utopia where people who struggle enough as it is to take their sorted rubbish out to the curb will suddenly and en masse adopt a system of taking it to their deposit point instead.

[CheshireDave]

I'm ok with this. Dave's made a good point there on making sure money can be got back, even if voucher is initial thing given in return. Belgium had that when I lived there. The pop man used to give cash back if you wanted, didn't he?

I just think it's wrong if all which you get back is store credit as the shops will be profiting twice.

[CheshireDave]

And if this scheme comes in place of the curb collections I imagine many will just go back to putting their recyclable rubbish in with their general bin.

Without a doubt. Especially if for example you rely on public transport. Some people just won't want to lug around bags of bottles and tin cans and will be forced to take the hit in the pocket.

[BarryCrocker]

I just think it's wrong if all which you get back is store credit as the shops will be profiting twice.

In Australia you have the choice of a credit to a PayPal account, print out a refund docket that can be exchanged for cash or redeemed on in-store purchases at the local retail partner or selecting a charity or community group to donate the funds to.

[Jonny-B]

Am all for this as it does work in other countries but we can't half arse it like we did the plastic bag (in England) when it was originally only the big shops.

[clinical]

People in my house can't even be bothered to put the recyclable stuff in the correct kitchen bin. Our two bins are right next to each other but still they put stuff in whichever takes their fancy. No doubt the country is full of millions just like them. So if dropping something in a different bin five inches to the left instead is too much effort people certainly aren't going to be walking all the way back to a shop with their empties. Not even for the pence they would get in exchange.

And if this scheme comes in place of the curb collections I imagine many will just go back to putting their recyclable rubbish in with their general bin. We just don't live in the utopia where people who struggle enough as it is to take their sorted rubbish out to the curb will suddenly and en masse adopt a system of taking it to their deposit point instead.

I really don't think you suddenly won't be allowed to put the plastic bottles in your recycle bin. That would be a silly move. What might happen though is the homeless go through your recycle bin looking for bottles.

Again this isn't going to stop everyone changing their habbits. If the rich still can't be arsed then fine they simply pay more tax, win win.

Really don't get the negatives. If your housemates won't do it, simple, they lose money, and that's up to them. At least they will be punished for it whilst right now they aren't. 

[redbyrdz]

I just think it's wrong if all which you get back is store credit as the shops will be profiting twice.

Depends how they do it, but going by the German example, you'll get a paper slip that you can cash in at the till. Most people obviously just use it to pay, but there's nothing stopping you from just asking to be paid out. I think it would probably be quite a security risk if the machines were filled with money like a cash point.



Its fairly easy to 'save up' a considerable amount of money, its 0.25 euros per bottle, so getting a few euro out of the empties is very common.

[Libertine]

Its different from recycling at home. Recycling doesn't prevent littering, getting money back for a bottle does. Obviously there's lazy people everywhere, but once people get it in their head that they're literally throwing money away, they do it a lot less.

Not sure about this. Seems to be necessary because some people are too ignorant to recycle now. Those of us that do recycle all bottles/cans easily at home now will have to take them to the shop or recycling centre. A lot of inconvenience for the ignorance of others. And let's face it, most people who don't recycle are probably Brexiters too....

[rob1966]

I can't agree with some of this,

firstly you say you have to drive 5 miles to get deposits back? Surely you will be driving 5 miles to go to the shop to buy food at some point anyway?

Secondly the council can actually reduce the number of times the HGV's are sent round to houses as the bins will take longer to fill instead take them to the shops. So no net money lost or extra impact on the environment.

Agree about the people who litter from KFC and the like. This isn't going to cure the problem but it's a start and will definitely help. I've seen kids literally throw rubbish into a hedge when there was a bin the otherside of them. Now for that I blame the parents and lack of education.

But as thejibs said you see people who don't bother to recycle at all and it pisses me off. This will stop that.

There's so much to moan about in this country with what's happening but something like this that will only have an overall benefit is not one of them.

My wife shops every day and walks the 2 miles there and back to the local centre - she won't carry a bag of cans and bottles every time she goes, so I'll have to put them all in the car. The local shopping centre has an Aldi, Iceland and Sainsburys, but there is no space to put a recycling centre, so Asda will be the nearest.

As for the council, we have 4 wheely bins - blue for paper and card, black for bottles and cans, these are collected once a month. Grey is for non recyclable and is collected fortnightly. The green bin is for food and garden waste and is collected weekly, 52 weeks a year. Most green bins will have one or two bags of food waste at the most in winter, some bins don't even go out - my bin was put out every 6 weeks, yet the council still send two trucks on a Friday, one for the blue/grey/black bin and the other for the green.

Trafford is shit hot for actually providing recycling facilities at home and at the tips, yet lazy c*nts won't drive home with their litter and put it in the bin, these just lash it in the streets. I honestly cannot see 20p making a difference to these c*nts and its punishing those of us who already recycle. At 20p a bottle, we as a family are looking at £200 a year in penalties, because we home recycle via the council, rather than drive to Asda to deposit cans. There are 80 houses just in our road, we all recycle already, that's a hell of a lot of money we are being stiffed for.

[SP]

Not only does it create an incentive for people to recycle their empties, but it also creates an incentive for others to pick up after the recalcitrant litterers.