Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)

[killer-heels]

But Millner is another year older and Lallana may well struggle with injuries/intensities.

I fully expect us to sign a creative player (ideally they can fill in, in the final third if needed).

                       New 6/Henderson

                                            Keita/Gini
              New/OX                           

With Millner, Lallana and Woodburn being bit part players due to age, injuries or youth.

Bit part players but at least with enough left in the tank to contribute next season. Plus I can’t see how we start with 3 new midfielders next season.

The only way that happens is if as you say whomever we sign is comfortable playing in the attacking positions but that would have to be their primary role.

We pretty much need someone who can do what Coutinho did. Albeit no one we will sign will be in that level.

[BobPaisley3]

Not going to lie I'd be a tad disappointed if James Maddison is who we really want. Think we've gone beyond looking for players who might be decent, we can buy players who definitely are decent now.

Will Hughes please.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Bit part players but at least with enough left in the tank to contribute next season. Plus I can’t see how we start with 3 new midfielders next season.

The only way that happens is if as you say whomever we sign is comfortable playing in the attacking positions but that would have to be their primary role.

We pretty much need someone who can do what Coutinho did. Albeit no one we will sign will be in that level.

Meaning what?

[Johnnyboy1973]

Plus I can’t see how we start with 3 new midfielders next season.

We pretty much need someone who can do what Coutinho did. Albeit no one we will sign will be in that level.

But, isn't that the same as three new midfielders? Keita, the six for Caan and a Coutinho type? Or are you looking for someone to challenge Mane position who can also play in midfield?

Also you dont have to start all three new midfielders at once.

I suppose it turns on whether you are happy with OX and Lallana vying for the creative midfield option.

[Eeyore]

But, isn't that the same as three new midfielders? Keita, the six for Caan and a Coutinho type? Or are you looking for someone to challenge Mane position who can also play in midfield?

Also you dont have to start all three new midfielders at once.

I suppose it turns on whether you are happy with OX and Lallana vying for the creative midfield option.

I think the likelihood is that we will need to bring in a replacement for Can, Keita is coming in so I think you are right that we will probably bring in three midfield players.

[killer-heels]

Meaning what?

His creativity when on the ball. Ability to play that role off the left but be deployed deeper as well.

[killer-heels]

But, isn't that the same as three new midfielders? Keita, the six for Caan and a Coutinho type? Or are you looking for someone to challenge Mane position who can also play in midfield?

Also you dont have to start all three new midfielders at once.

I suppose it turns on whether you are happy with OX and Lallana vying for the creative midfield option.

Yes I mean someone who can challenge Mane first and then play in midfield.

[BabuYagu]

Just had a look at Madison. Looks like his key passes break down into mostly crosses and restarts. We need those, of course, but that's not what our midfield needs in these games - we need someone who can do it in open play.

Interestingly, when you look at players who create the most none-cross chances in open play, Erikson comes out quite high on the list. As do Suso, Luis Alberto, Mane, Sterling, Chamberlain & Salah.  Some names we have seen mentioned a lot like Thuavin, Savic, Jorginho, Isco, De Bruyne, Draxler, Iwobi, Son, etc.

Some lesser known players who names pop out are Fornals (Villarreal), Sarabia (Sevilla), Berardi (Sassuolo - been on my radar for a few years now), NDombele (Lyon - also came out well when comparing DM's stats recently. One to scout if you catch a Lyon game for sure). Aouar (Lyon - another name that pops out when I have looked at stats various times in various categories!), Politano (Sassuolo - scores high across the board in creation numbers).

Those are some players who are in the top 50 in terms of through balls and open play non-cross chances created per 90 who are under the age of 27 and not already at big clubs. Ndombele, Berardi, Aouar and Politano all very much interest me as their names keep popping up in different little metrics I create to look at certain things.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/R8mwnurPzqA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/R8mwnurPzqA</a>

Found NDombele against PSG - probably the toughest game he will get against the likes of Verratti & Rabiot. Really like what I see here. Would need to watch some full games to see how solid he is tactically though in terms of being a #6 or an #8. Looking at most of these videos, he seems to be the second #6, the more attacking one of the two. Similar to Bakayoko for Monaco last season for example. This would be the Gini role in our system.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/6AWXtdg90iQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/6AWXtdg90iQ</a>

Cannot find any vids of Aouar against PSG, Marseille or Monaco. Best I can get is Nice who are still a decent side in France. Seems to play as the link between midfield and attack - the creator in midfield. The Lallana/Ox role if you will. This video he starts off doing not much, then puts in a peach of a throughball. The second throughball in the video is actually NDombele.

Seems like he can pick sides apart with time and space on the ball. But I don't see as much of him making time and space - which is the problems we have with low block sides. A ridiculously good player though at just 19.

[Gerry Attrick]

I'm hoping for more balance in goalscoring next season. Our front 3 is incredible, that's indisputable but the onus on them is massive. Firmino and Salah have been goal machines all season long, but the other 8 outfield starters today have scored a whopping 5 PL goals between them this season. It stands to reason that most teams rely on their attacking players for goals but our top scorer outside the front 3 has 3 goals. We're a couple of injuries away from ruin as things stand. That's largely why I don't want Pulisic, he's virtually allergic to scoring goals.

[PhaseOfPlay]

His creativity when on the ball. Ability to play that role off the left but be deployed deeper as well.

Why does he need to play off the left. No two players are exactly alike, so I think it's asking too much. It's Coutinho's skillset we need, i.e. his creativity. But whoever we bring in can play anywhere across the attacking midfield line.

Chances are, though, our first choice midfield next year will be:

----------Henderson
----Ox-------------Keita---------Mane--------
---------------------Firmino
--Salah

[PhaseOfPlay]

I'm hoping for more balance in goalscoring next season. Our front 3 is incredible, that's indisputable but the onus on them is massive. Firmino and Salah have been goal machines all season long, but the other 8 outfield starters today have scored a whopping 5 PL goals between them this season. It stands to reason that most teams rely on their attacking players for goals but our top scorer outside the front 3 has 3 goals. We're a couple of injuries away from ruin as things stand. That's largely why I don't want Pulisic, he's virtually allergic to scoring goals.

Indeed, Gerry - Salah has accounted for 40% of our league goals. Similar to Spurs and Kane. It would be a big ask to expect him to do that again next season, especially coming off a World Cup tournament. Kane might suffer too. We need more goals from elsewhere, for sure.

[killer-heels]

Why does he need to play off the left. No two players are exactly alike, so I think it's asking too much. It's Coutinho's skillset we need, i.e. his creativity. But whoever we bring in can play anywhere across the attacking midfield line.

Chances are, though, our first choice midfield next year will be:

----------Henderson
----Ox-------------Keita---------Mane--------
---------------------Firmino
--Salah

Yes his skill set is the most important thing but we have to be realistic in terms of expecting or wanting 3 new midfielders. Klopp is running with effectively 3 forwards so the idea that we go over the top in terms of options in positions seems remote.

In terms of off the left, that’s the only place I see a space. We have Mane who can cover the right side effectively as illustrated last season and who knows maybe Salah can play up front when we don’t have Firmino in a more traditional striking role.

What we don’t have is someone who can do an effective job from that left hand side.

[Samie]

Yes his skill set is the most important thing

What we don’t have is someone who can do an effective job from that left hand side.

So basically you agree with POP but you're also sticking to your guns of needing a player from the left? Make your mind up woman.   

[killer-heels]

So basically you agree with POP but you're also sticking to your guns of needing a player from the left? Make your mind up woman.   

Klopp hasnt exactly signed loads of players since he has been here and he has run with a squd smaller than most other top 6 managers. I cant see him just signing a player unless there is a gap to fill and the only one is the left.

[Samie]

It's Mane!

We won't be getting a player  who would be a undisputed first teamer even if we by a left sided player for you.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Yes his skill set is the most important thing but we have to be realistic in terms of expecting or wanting 3 new midfielders. Klopp is running with effectively 3 forwards so the idea that we go over the top in terms of options in positions seems remote.

In terms of off the left, that’s the only place I see a space. We have Mane who can cover the right side effectively as illustrated last season and who knows maybe Salah can play up front when we don’t have Firmino in a more traditional striking role.

What we don’t have is someone who can do an effective job from that left hand side.

He's not, though. This is the mistake you're making. We play with two forwards (Bobby and Mo). Mane plays like a #11, but tucked in, while Ox or Gini plays like a #7, but wide. Here is our average positions for the City first leg:



Mane's positioning is clearly in the midfield line, along with Ox, while Bobby and Mo are the front line. Salah is clearly the "striker", whereas Firmino is the player in the hole. Ox can play left or right advanced midfielder, so we're not really restricted in looking at "someone who can play off the left". It just has to be someone who can create, press, run, keep it going for 90 minutes, and chip in a few goals. Which channel they play in is less important, as Klopp can move things around to accommodate them. The only things in our attack that are set in stone are Salah coming off the right wing to striker position, and Bobby floating where he needs to go. Everything behind that is largely flexible.

[killer-heels]

It's Mane!

We won't be getting a player  who would be a undisputed first teamer even if we by a left sided player for you.

Wont Mane, Salah or Firmino need a rest?

[Samie]

Wont Mane, Salah or Firmino need a rest?

Of course they would. But you're wanting a Coutinho replacement like for like. Someone like that would be an automatic starter and you're looking for someone who play's on the left to boot. 

[Samie]

why don't you join me in my Iniesta dream then you get a player who usually play's on the left. 

[killer-heels]

He's not, though. This is the mistake you're making. We play with two forwards (Bobby and Mo). Mane plays like a #11, but tucked in, while Ox or Gini plays like a #7, but wide. Here is our average positions for the City first leg:



Mane's positioning is clearly in the midfield line, along with Ox, while Bobby and Mo are the front line. Salah is clearly the "striker", whereas Firmino is the player in the hole. Ox can play left or right advanced midfielder, so we're not really restricted in looking at "someone who can play off the left". It just has to be someone who can create, press, run, keep it going for 90 minutes, and chip in a few goals. Which channel they play in is less important, as Klopp can move things around to accommodate them. The only things in our attack that are set in stone are Salah coming off the right wing to striker position, and Bobby floating where he needs to go. Everything behind that is largely flexible.

Has Oxlade-Chamberlain played in the left advanced midfielder role?

[Djimi Smicer34]

We could just sign a wide player, it doesn't have to be someone who plays in midfield as well.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Has Oxlade-Chamberlain played in the left advanced midfielder role?

For us, or across his career?

Do you think there's a difference?

[RedSince86]

MrBoyWunder has just done a video on Ndombele.

Early 20's Viera clone.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/hQK7VbfzvW4&amp;t=237s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/hQK7VbfzvW4&amp;t=237s</a>

[killer-heels]

For us, or across his career?

Do you think there's a difference?

For us.

I dont know if there is a difference.

[Eeyore]

We could just sign a wide player, it doesn't have to be someone who plays in midfield as well.

We don't really play with a wide player though. We play with inverted wingers who look to come inside. The front three really only go into wide positions when we win the ball and counter. The width comes from the full backs, so for me I would rather see us bring in a full back with dribbling ability. Far too often our full backs push on and then check back inside.

[PhaseOfPlay]

For us.

I dont know if there is a difference.

For us, he ends up there, but I'd have to see his heatmaps to see what games he played there to see if it was a flow-of-play position or a set formation position.

There is only a technical difference, in how you address the ball (if you're not left footed, as you're technique would be different). Although a right footer playing in that position is basically Coutinho (without the passing)

[Djimi Smicer34]

Another attacking option who plays as an inverted winger then.

[wemmick]

Snip

Great post. I really like the look of Aouar. His passing would an add element to our attacking play that we lost with Coutinho. Keita, Ox, Gini, and Lallana can all effectively dribble the ball in-between the lines, but we don't have anyone who specializes in passing it between the lines at speed. I think he (or another player like him) would give us better balance against low-block sides that cede possession, and could help turn draws into wins.

[Samie]

We could always get Gerry's favourite Draxler.  PSG have to sell a few big names this summer as to not fail FFP.

[killer-heels]

For us, he ends up there, but I'd have to see his heatmaps to see what games he played there to see if it was a flow-of-play position or a set formation position.

There is only a technical difference, in how you address the ball (if you're not left footed, as you're technique would be different). Although a right footer playing in that position is basically Coutinho (without the passing)

If Oxlade-Chamberlain can play that side then fair enough we have options. All i was simply getting at was that last season we saw that Mane was effective off the right and maybe Salah could be effective as a more traditional striker role rather than off the right. So we have options to rest Salah and Firmino.

I didnt think we have substitutes to do what Mane can do though thats why i said a player off the left. If Oxlade-Chamberlain can do it then happy days.

Does Mane’s positioning make the links with Lemar more logical?

[BabuYagu]

MrBoyWunder has just done a video on Ndombele.

Early 20's Viera clone.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/hQK7VbfzvW4&amp;t=237s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/hQK7VbfzvW4&amp;t=237s</a>

I caveat this with it is just in france but...

He shows up well in the numbers and looks fantastic to watch. Would like to watch every game for a month at some point to see what he brings game to game - where he is weak etc. I imagine you could make an amazing comp video of Can but we largely want to recruit someone with his strengths and without his flaws, which you won't see in every touch or compilations. Really like the look of NDombele though. And Pellegrini at Roma.

[BabuYagu]

https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/910100237729099776

https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/961636143807782917

Missed these two tweets. Interesting to see the progression from small French side to one of the top ones.

[RedSince86]

https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/910100237729099776

https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/961636143807782917

Missed these two tweets. Interesting to see the progression from small French side to one of the top ones.

He's on loan at Lyon from Amiens.

Lyon paid a €2 million loan fee and can buy him in the summer for €8 million.

Great  bit of business by Lyon.

[Samie]

Seeing as Kloppo for some reason isn't wanting to look at Germany for talent, we should really be looking at the French generation coming through. They have a really talented age group behind the already known talents. 

[vagabond]

We shouldn't focus on the ref decisions as a reason we didn't win, even though that might be legitimate. We do have to look at the continuing problem of not turning possession dominance into goals, though. And as mentioned before, this is a long-term thing with Klopp at Liverpool. It got better this season, but we're clearly some players short on the technical side in midfield. We'd 72% possession today, and only 2 shots on target. So our players are either too impatient, make bad shot choices, or we don't have players who can set up a good final ball in these games. It's likely a combination of all three.

I asked a pro player once what they thought the most important position on the field was. They said the playmaker, as a good playmaker can elevate a good striker to a great striker, and an average one to a good one, by putting goals on a plate.

We need a high-energy, tactically disciplined, agile playmaker.

Do any exist?

Or is it Keita?

I take your point, but this was a team missing Ox, Lallana, Mane, Can. The midfield was understandably stuttering, given we had a 19 year old playing his first game there. But yes, can't wait for Keita to come in and start showing the likes of Stoke their place in the food chain.

[Geppvindh's]

He's on loan at Lyon from Amiens.

Lyon paid a €2 million loan fee and can buy him in the summer for €8 million.

Great  bit of business by Lyon.

How is his first name pronounced? Is it Tan'gee' or Tan'guy'?

[farawayred]

How is his first name pronounced? Is it Tan'gee' or Tan'guy'?

Tan-gi like in gizmo.

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/910100237729099776

https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/961636143807782917

Missed these two tweets. Interesting to see the progression from small French side to one of the top ones.

I've Youtube scouted him before, would be good to have a look at him across a few games, as you say. A couple of troubling stats for a #6 (deepest MF) are his limited number of interceptions and relatively high number of dispossessed. At face-value these would suggest reading the game defensively is not a strength of his and he takes too many risks - i'd be interested to see where on the pitch he is getting dispossessed.

[Gnurglan]

Klopp hasnt exactly signed loads of players since he has been here and he has run with a squd smaller than most other top 6 managers. I cant see him just signing a player unless there is a gap to fill and the only one is the left.

For me there's a gap in the squad up front. When I say gap I mean we need a better fourth player. We have Firmino, Mane and Salah, but after that there's a need to improve. So think Sturridge, Origi, Solanke and Ings.

With AOC and Lallana we have players who can fill in for Mane on the left. Then we could shift Mane right to fill in for Salah. Our problem is the backup for Firmino. That's where I think we lose the most. But the ’problem’ is Mane, Firmino, Salah is of such high quality we need to find a fourth player who can play in multiple roles and essentially replace either of them.

I disagree Klopp has been running with a smaller squad though. We have 21 players with 10+ appearances in the league. Man C have 16, Man U 18 and Spurs 18, while Chelsea are on 19 if I counted right. And that's us not counting for example Clyne, Ings and Sturridge who are yet to count ten. The aim for next season should be to use fewer players more often. If we focus specifically on the attacking players, this is where we need someone who can replace or improve:

Ings 3 (4) - 1 goal
Solanke 4 (15) - 0 goals
Sturridge 5 (4) - 2 goals
Origi 0 (1) - 0 goals

If we think wages spent vs contribution, game time to replace and lack of cover for Firmino, this is where we should look. We can see that there is room for a high quality player. Someone with the quality of the old version of Sturridge and Solanke's availability.

Keita will probably eat games from Coutinho+Lallana 14 (11) games and/or Milner, Henderson, Wijnaldum, AOC and their 78 (41) games. I reckon one solution here is let AOC cover for Mane.

[killer-heels]

For me there's a gap in the squad up front. When I say gap I mean we need a better fourth player. We have Firmino, Mane and Salah, but after that there's a need to improve. So think Sturridge, Origi, Solanke and Ings.

With AOC and Lallana we have players who can fill in for Mane on the left. Then we could shift Mane right to fill in for Salah. Our problem is the backup for Firmino. That's where I think we lose the most. But the ’problem’ is Mane, Firmino, Salah is of such high quality we need to find a fourth player who can play in multiple roles and essentially replace either of them.

I disagree Klopp has been running with a smaller squad though. We have 21 players with 10+ appearances in the league. Man C have 16, Man U 18 and Spurs 18, while Chelsea are on 19 if I counted right. And that's us not counting for example Clyne, Ings and Sturridge who are yet to count ten. The aim for next season should be to use fewer players more often. If we focus specifically on the attacking players, this is where we need someone who can replace or improve:

Ings 3 (4) - 1 goal
Solanke 4 (15) - 0 goals
Sturridge 5 (4) - 2 goals
Origi 0 (1) - 0 goals

If we think wages spent vs contribution, game time to replace and lack of cover for Firmino, this is where we should look. We can see that there is room for a high quality player. Someone with the quality of the old version of Sturridge and Solanke's availability.

Keita will probably eat games from Coutinho+Lallana 14 (11) games and/or Milner, Henderson, Wijnaldum, AOC and their 78 (41) games. I reckon one solution here is let AOC cover for Mane.

Yes you are probably right in terms of squad size. We do have ample defence and midfield options. From a numbers point we probably have enough attackers.

Clearly though our options in the front three are not good enough at this time though. There is also a question if robustness with some players like Matip, Lovren and Lallana.