Author Topic: Bladerunner 2.  (Read 30855 times)

Offline Prelude no.5

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #240 on: November 22, 2017, 01:55:59 pm »
Need to multiply the production budget by 2 to cover marketing for the film.

You're right, that $150m is only production budget. Seeing some articles thought that bring the marketing costs to $35m, bringing the total to $185m.
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Offline Redcap

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #241 on: November 23, 2017, 12:55:35 am »
Watched it last night and loved the visuals but the story made no sense for me.  Sadly (for me) it is infected by the metaphysical bullshit that Scott added to the original (unicorns and the 'is he/isn't he' stuff) and which made Prometheus so laughable.

Scott made two of my favourite, and two of the greatest sci-if movies of all time. He's also made some of the most long-winded nonsense.
Spoiler
Villanueve's visually stunning epic is based on a scientifically illiterate, almost medieval concept of how babies are actually conceived and born. In the first movie, did no one notice that Rachel had ovaries and was having periods?  Why the Caesarian? If she didn't have the right parts to have a live birth how did they conceive in the first place?

It was weirdly pro-life to make such a big thing out of conception and birth and it was agresssively anti-science to assume that in a world where they are genetically creating entire humans, it's impossible to activate genes that switch on reproduction. 

And the holographic girlfriend thing was fun but further watered down the original Phillip K Dick idea about what it is to be human. The whole 'hi honey I'm home' sequence and a hologram fucking a Robot basically says that anything can be 'human' in which case, what's the film actually about?

Sorry all, seems like I'm really down on it (and I am to some extent) but I found it fundamentally I satisfying as a story.  Why did he die at the end? Another quasi-religious moment that was all about human sacrifice (and a bit too close to the end of Drive for me) when it's not the actual dying that makes you human, it's the willingness to put your life on the line.

Sorry - not a patch on (one of the) originals. I'll watch it again when it's released online and hopefully it will make more sense.

And it was far too loud. Bits of the cinema were rattling which kind of broke the spell. 
[close]

I think original Blade Runner was a far more allegorical, ideas driven movie. The characters are cold, unidimensional and unsympathetic, from Deckard to Tyrell to Roy Batty, until his final moments. Its greatness is in its ideas and world building.

2049 was never going to have the same impact in terms of ideas and world building, but it's a much more character-driven film. K is a genuinely sympathetic character, whose journey (I'd argue, unlike Deckard's) we actually care about, because we care about him - rather than what he represents.

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #242 on: November 23, 2017, 01:16:19 am »
I think original Blade Runner was a far more allegorical, ideas driven movie. The characters are cold, unidimensional and unsympathetic, from Deckard to Tyrell to Roy Batty, until his final moments. Its greatness is in its ideas and world building.

2049 was never going to have the same impact in terms of ideas and world building, but it's a much more character-driven film. K is a genuinely sympathetic character, whose journey (I'd argue, unlike Deckard's) we actually care about, because we care about him - rather than what he represents.
Agree with the first bit in bold. Disagree somewhat with the second.

You're right. It's all about the underlying subtexts that are present just below the surface in a vague and non obvious manner. It's about reading between the lines. I thought the second film not only had a better grasp of this overall, but it took those themes and brought them more to light, whilst maintaining that same sense of ambiguity.  K was the embodiment of this. It was his central character that more or less corrected the major complaints of the original. There was zero ambiguity from the get go with him. All the allegorical theoretical nonsense that took shape down the decades surrounding Deckard were immediately tossed out the window. K had a very clear and distinct purpose to him, and that's was one of the things that made his arch and eventual twist so impactful and meaningful in the end, whereas Deckard's character in the original by comparison was a hollow shell that got fleshed out by fan theory. You could extend that mode of thinking to the entire film. Blade Runner 2049 is one of those rare films that is so confident in the intelligence of its audience, that it doesn't feel the need to explain every little nuance to them. All the clues of its subtexts are there, laid bare with subtle visual hints and within the dialogue throughout. You just have to pay attention to spot them, which could take a couple of viewings.

Offline Yiannis

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #243 on: November 23, 2017, 02:37:51 pm »
To be pedantic (and just that, I agree with your point) here, I felt there was only one moment where there was a bit of too much of (dialogue) exposition.
Spoiler
the moment the army of Replicants are revealed to K and he realises he's not Deckard's son and then the old lady starts giving him details/instructions
[close]
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Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #244 on: November 23, 2017, 03:58:54 pm »
To be pedantic (and just that, I agree with your point) here, I felt there was only one moment where there was a bit of too much of (dialogue) exposition.
Spoiler
the moment the army of Replicants are revealed to K and he realises he's not Deckard's son and then the old lady starts giving him details/instructions
[close]
I think that was needed, though. It gave the overall plot it's wider context, and it alleviated a concern that I had for K's arch in that I felt that it was leaning more towards a cliche where I'd hoped it wouldn't.
Spoiler
in that he was the replicant born from Deckard and Rachel. Deckard's son. A bit too "Star Wars" that.
[close]
It revealed his purpose. It was also the scene in the film where everything clicked together, setting up a very fitting and satisfying ending. It was perfect.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 04:01:18 pm by Macphisto80 »

Offline Redcap

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #245 on: November 24, 2017, 02:51:58 am »
I think that was needed, though. It gave the overall plot it's wider context, and it alleviated a concern that I had for K's arch in that I felt that it was leaning more towards a cliche where I'd hoped it wouldn't.
Spoiler
in that he was the replicant born from Deckard and Rachel. Deckard's son. A bit too "Star Wars" that.
[close]
It revealed his purpose. It was also the scene in the film where everything clicked together, setting up a very fitting and satisfying ending. It was perfect.

I actually quite intensely disliked the direction of the ending entirely.

I understand what you mean about avoiding cliches, but I don't like the way they avoided that cliche at all.

Spoiler
For me the best part of the story was that it was largely quiet and personal, although it was set in a very particular future context. The worst parts of it were the larger world events - Jared Leto's ambition, the replicant uprising etc., when they came up, were jarring. The replicant uprising in particular seemed to have come out of nowhere. Some kind of clumsy deus ex machina just to get out of the way of the cliche. The revolution/resistance angle is rather tired to say the least, and I wish they wouldn't have gone there at all.

I'd have been happy for the cute German girl from Morris from America to be the replicant child, without the involvement of a whole underground movement.
[close]

But I feel like I need to see it again a couple of times more to master my thoughts on it.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 02:53:51 am by Redcap »

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #246 on: November 24, 2017, 05:17:40 pm »
I actually quite intensely disliked the direction of the ending entirely.

I understand what you mean about avoiding cliches, but I don't like the way they avoided that cliche at all.

Spoiler
For me the best part of the story was that it was largely quiet and personal, although it was set in a very particular future context. The worst parts of it were the larger world events - Jared Leto's ambition, the replicant uprising etc., when they came up, were jarring. The replicant uprising in particular seemed to have come out of nowhere. Some kind of clumsy deus ex machina just to get out of the way of the cliche. The revolution/resistance angle is rather tired to say the least, and I wish they wouldn't have gone there at all.

I'd have been happy for the cute German girl from Morris from America to be the replicant child, without the involvement of a whole underground movement.
[close]

But I feel like I need to see it again a couple of times more to master my thoughts on it.
Spoiler
I'm not sure she was even aware of who she was, or was she? I certainly don't think she was aware that there was any kind of religious-type following involving her, and that she was even aware of it. It would have been a bit stupid and paradoxical to the plot had it been the case that replicants knew who she was and of her location given the lengths Deckard went to to hide her. The whole replicant uprising felt like something that was just simmering beneath the surface and was only hinted at. It made sense to me that it'd be there. The film hinted at themes of oppression and prejudice within society towards replicants, something that the first film never had, so I thought it was only logical for that kind of thing to boil over into some kind of revolution, which as we know, happens for real. It added to the world without really going too far with it, I thought. I just hope that no one in the future sees that as an excuse to continue on with that thread and turn it into an all out war between humans and replicants with the girl as some kind of Joan of Arc type figure.
[close]

Offline Yiannis

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #247 on: November 25, 2017, 09:45:11 am »
January 18th comes out on DVD and BluRay.
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Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #248 on: November 26, 2017, 12:49:41 am »
Nice. Not too long to wait. Would have loved to have seen it again on the big screen with that booming soundtrack, but gotta make way for Justice League and smashers like Daddy's Home 2, I suppose.

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #249 on: December 7, 2017, 12:28:54 am »
I've been reading up and watching videos on the effects that went into making this, and if it doesn't at least clean up at awards ceremonies for it, then I don't know what will.

I can't say too much without being spoilery, but people who have watched it already will know what scene I'm talking about, and the video is a basic look at how it was done. Just mute the music on this. I don't get why they chose that shite.

Anyway, this was impressive right up until the moment the facial animations started. It's the only thing that really betrays the effect at the moment, but its getting really close. The overlay test footage on scenes from the original are virtually perfect. You can render a human photo realistically, it's just certain little nuances in the animation that let it down as I say. Still better than Rogue One's efforts, that's for sure.


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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #250 on: January 13, 2018, 08:35:37 pm »
just watched it again. it's still fucking brilliant.

Offline abs-ibs

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #251 on: January 14, 2018, 04:54:29 am »
Considering how terrible sequels/remakes/alternate-versions can be made and HAVE been made of cult and critically acclaimed classics, this sequel is possibly the best one I have seen, especially since the gap between the first and second is 35 years. It could have even been made the year after and except for the actual aging of characters and special effects it would have fit with the original perfectly then as it does now.

Very good movie and very well made.

Offline stara

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #252 on: January 14, 2018, 06:30:19 am »
A very good movie.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #253 on: January 15, 2018, 09:45:23 am »
Finally decided to watch this so downloaded it.  Have to say it's both remarkable and fascinating in equal measure.

Can't really exist without the original but is utterly superior to it in every single way, bar perhaps visuals which are roughly equal.  From acting to story to even direction; this is so rare for a sequel.

I'm an hour in, but it feels like 20 minutes.  It's gripping.
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Offline BazC

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #254 on: January 15, 2018, 01:34:14 pm »
But not so gripping that you had to post on RAWK part way through?  ;)

I’ve still yet to watch this but trying to get a few hours free to watch it properly. It looks amazing.
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Offline Redcap

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #255 on: January 16, 2018, 01:04:34 am »
But not so gripping that you had to post on RAWK part way through?  ;)

I’ve still yet to watch this but trying to get a few hours free to watch it properly. It looks amazing.

To be fair, it's a whole hour in. You've gotta have a RAWK break once in a while, right?

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #256 on: January 16, 2018, 10:18:37 am »
But not so gripping that you had to post on RAWK part way through?  ;)

I’ve still yet to watch this but trying to get a few hours free to watch it properly. It looks amazing.

I had things to do and I literally had to drag myself away from the film to get them done, which is rare for me these days.  Had just enough time to post that!  ;D

I'm fifity minutes into Dunkirk and I keep putting off going back to it because it's so stressful...  :-X
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Offline losCHUNK

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #257 on: January 16, 2018, 02:05:20 pm »
I watched it a week or 2 ago, held off because I thought it was gonna suck as a sequel to a cult classic that has been picked apart.  Thought it was gonna revolve around the whole 'Deckard' thing which would've been ZZZZ.

I was absolutely floored by it, best sequel I've seen in a very long time and one of the better movies too. I can see why people complained about the runtime but I couldn't get enough of it.

Gutted it didn't break even.

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #258 on: January 16, 2018, 05:27:45 pm »
I watched it a week or 2 ago, held off because I thought it was gonna suck as a sequel to a cult classic that has been picked apart.  Thought it was gonna revolve around the whole 'Deckard' thing which would've been ZZZZ.

I was absolutely floored by it, best sequel I've seen in a very long time and one of the better movies too. I can see why people complained about the runtime but I couldn't get enough of it.

Gutted it didn't break even.
I think I mentioned somewhere early in this thread my thoughts on the sequel when it got announced, and my initial trepidation of it. I was of the mindset that Blade Runner absolutely did not need a sequel, not to mention one that was coming some 35 years after the original. That's crazy to even think that it's been that long. As you rightfully say, anything left of the shelf that long invariably tends to end up a total mess when revisited, especially when sequels are concerned. It wasn't, though. It felt like a film carefully mulled over, and crafted in a way that not only disregards the original in any kind of fan service manner, but managed to stand on it's own, on its own merit, on its very own terms. It never felt like pandering, and it felt like a very natural progression as if the world of Blade Runner was real, and actual time of 35 years had passed within it. That's a long time by anyone's reckoning, so it only made perfect and logical sense that characters like Deckard would have moved on, and he was rightfully pushed into the last act of the film, instead of it all revolving around him. Rachel's character too was elevated by actually not being in the film, but instead became the focus of it in a different way, again, in a logical manner that made sense. All of that is a very rare thing to have been pulled off in such a satisfying and competent manner, unlike most other big hitter sequels *cough*Star Wars*cough* out there.

I've now seen it twice. Once on the big screen, and at home, and it loses absolutely nothing. In fact, second time viewing it was better, even if it didn't recreate the bone shaking bass you get from its fantastic soundtrack sitting in the theatre. I'm really struggling to find flaws in it in any glaring manner. Even the run time, which some have issues with -  and I can understand why, but I don't - is fine by me. It's a film that not only does the original justice, but surpasses it in every conceivable manner, and I can't speak highly enough for it. By far the best film made in 2017, not only because it was a brilliant film, but because of what was at stake; because of the risks involved, and the manner in which it was executed. It's a very rare breed of a film, and to be fair, to just say it was the best film of 2017 is doing it a disservice. It's hands down, one of the best films ever made.

Offline losCHUNK

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #259 on: January 16, 2018, 07:29:53 pm »
I agree, on announcement I was adamant that there's nothing to tell and I'm still in shock by how it managed to navigate the narrative minefield that it faced.  I loved how it pushed that 'Deckard thing' to one side and barely mentioned it, not treating it with importance and how it stayed completely faithful to its predecessor.  That's what got on my nerves with the 1st film, the endless 'is he' or 'isn't he' in the aftermath, this was all besides the point of the movie for me.  I can't give this film enough praise for realising this and pushing forward with its own thing.

I was expecting something like a Total Recall reboot.  I think it was better than the original too, it expanded on everything and made it better, most importantly having actual character development with some 'meat' in the plot. Then there's all the things about life, ethics, the mind etc which left you questioning yourself.

I forgot what it was like to watch a movie where you could sit back, relax and not have action thrown in your face or have a simplistic explanation for the audience, you could just absorb the movie. This also felt like a labour of love rather than a committee, something else that seems rare with movies these days.

I havn't seen it a 2nd time yet, I'm waiting so I can view it in 4k with a cinema set up.  This is something I want to savour.  It's been so long since I've seen a movie and been in complete awe of it.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 07:55:31 pm by losCHUNK »

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #260 on: January 16, 2018, 08:37:23 pm »
I loved how it pushed that 'Deckard thing' to one side and barely mentioned it, not treating it with importance and how it stayed completely faithful to its predecessor.  That's what got on my nerves with the 1st film, the endless 'is he' or 'isn't he' in the aftermath, this was all besides the point of the movie for me. 


Ridley Scott. Thank Christ he'd as little to do with this film as possible, because this is the one thing that his own ego just wouldn't let go. Propagated by fan theory as time went on, Scott, after the fact, decided it was a great idea to have Deckard be a replicant, even though it made absolutely zero fucking sense for him to be one. His insistent "dicking around" with edits and deleted scenes lead to the infamous inclusion of the magical unicorn dream sequence. A thing that no doubt he just chucked in there because...well...because it's mysterious, artsy, and well, why the fuck not? He'd a bit of spare footage left over from Legend, and he must have loved the shot of that unicorn so much that he just had to include it in there somewhere. The fact that Gaff made an origami unicorn/horse thing is just a massive coincidence, but try telling him that. Even Villeneuve and Harrison Ford himself thought he was a silly twat for insisting that Deckard is a replicant. In the context of BR2049, it makes zero sense for him to be one anyway.
"All the best memories are hers". I wonder why that is. Is it because she's partly human, and only humans can create memories like she can? For those that's seen the film, you'll get what I mean by that without having to spoiler anything. Having Deckard being a replicant equates to nothing interesting or of any gravitas whatsoever in terms of what it actually means in the context of the Nexas 7 models and beyond, and their relation to humans. She is something of a holly grail for Wallace, and at the same time, a portent of terrible things to come for the human race, were it ever revealed to replicants and humans that she gave birth to a child, created by a human father. Ridley wanted to take a massive dump on all of that, and for a moment in the film, I thought he got his wish when Wallace was surmising to Deckard about Rachel. "Her eyes were green." Thank fuck for that. Do one, Ridley!

Offline Samie

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #261 on: January 23, 2020, 02:19:21 pm »
New interview with Denis Villeneuve


https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/denis-villeneuve-wants-to-revisit-the-world-of-blade-runner-exclusive/

Quote
Denis Villeneuve interested to make another movie set in the Blade Runner universe that is not connected to the previous two movies.

"A detective noir story set in the future… I wake up sometimes in the night dreaming about it.”
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 02:22:10 pm by Samie »

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #262 on: January 23, 2020, 02:46:25 pm »
"A detective noir story set in the future… I wake up sometimes in the night dreaming about it.”

Into my veins please.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #263 on: January 23, 2020, 03:23:37 pm »
So pretty much Altered Carbon then?  ;D

Offline Samie

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #264 on: January 23, 2020, 03:26:41 pm »
Altered Carbon wishes it was set in the noir Blade Runner universe.  :D

Offline Stevie-A

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #265 on: January 23, 2020, 04:49:04 pm »
Rewatched this on Netflix the other day for the first time since seeing it in the cinema. It was even better than I remembered. My Dune excitement is building nicely.

Offline AndyMuller

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #266 on: January 23, 2020, 05:01:33 pm »
Bladerunner 2 is a masterpiece.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #267 on: January 23, 2020, 05:05:29 pm »
Bladerunner 2 is everything people think Bladerunner 1 is, but then realise isn't when they rewatch it. ;D
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #268 on: January 23, 2020, 05:06:19 pm »
Bladerunner 2 is everything people think Bladerunner 1 is, but then realise isn't when they rewatch it. ;D

In what way?
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Offline Zlen

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #269 on: January 23, 2020, 05:46:18 pm »
Yes please Denis.
Scratch the creative itch.

Hopefully Dune is a majestic box office success (I won’t give a fuck as I’ll watch it 50 times anyway) and he makes a dozen of them - using Bladerunner as creative venting space inbetween all the Dune glory.

Clone this man!

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #270 on: January 23, 2020, 05:50:30 pm »
In what way?

The first is visually stunning but also very tedious and dull for long stretches of a long movie. Second one is riveting and absolutely nails it in terms of watchability.

You can always check out honest trailers for further clarification.
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Offline Zlen

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #271 on: January 23, 2020, 05:54:45 pm »
Those long scenes, paired with visuals and music, are what makes the first one such an enduring piece of art. Yes the new one is much tighter and better paced, but that doesnt mean the first one would work like that.

I remember seeing it as a kid for the first time and it left such a mark precisely by carefully dosing action and contrasting it against ling, world building scenes.

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #272 on: January 23, 2020, 05:57:05 pm »
There's also rumours of a Blade Runner animated movie, like proper one not the animie shorts we got in the lead up to 2049. I'm glad the Blade Runner universe is expanding. :D

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #273 on: January 23, 2020, 05:57:58 pm »
The first is visually stunning but also very tedious and dull for long stretches of a long movie. Second one is riveting and absolutely nails it in terms of watchability.

You can always check out honest trailers for further clarification.

Well....quite ;D
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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #274 on: January 23, 2020, 06:17:12 pm »
The first is visually stunning but also very tedious and dull for long stretches of a long movie. Second one is riveting and absolutely nails it in terms of watchability.

You can always check out honest trailers for further clarification.

I don't recognise the ''tedious and dull for long stretches'' description at all, personally.

I still haven't watched the second one and don't know if I ever will. I just don't want anything to taint what I see as Blade Runner. It was an amazing film I watched at an amazing time, so I'll probably preserve my memories as they are.

Mind you, I still prefer the original Batman with Adam West over any of the Batman films made later.  ;D

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #275 on: January 23, 2020, 06:18:35 pm »
I don't recognise the ''tedious and dull for long stretches'' description at all, personally.

I still haven't watched the second one and don't know if I ever will. I just don't want anything to taint what I see as Blade Runner. It was an amazing film I watched at an amazing time, so I'll probably preserve my memories as they are.

Mind you, I still prefer the original Batman with Adam West over any of the Batman films made later.  ;D

Ahhh the second ones a cracker too mate, you defo should watch it.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #276 on: January 23, 2020, 06:20:54 pm »
The first is visually stunning but also very tedious and dull for long stretches of a long movie.


Those long scenes, paired with visuals and music, are what makes the first one such an enduring piece of art.

I much prefer the first one.
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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #277 on: January 23, 2020, 06:21:38 pm »
Ahhh the second ones a cracker too mate, you defo should watch it.
Maybe I will at some point. I'm still feeling rather avoidant at the moment, though.  :)
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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #278 on: January 23, 2020, 06:23:14 pm »
Please don't let it become a 1 vs 2 argument. They're both stunning, potentially era-defining pieces of work in their own way.
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Re: Bladerunner 2.
« Reply #279 on: January 23, 2020, 06:25:11 pm »
Please don't let it become a 1 vs 2 argument. They're both stunning, potentially era-defining pieces of work in their own way.

Maybe I need to re-watch 2. I wasn't that impressed.
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